I am sure you have heard the conspiracies about there being no plane that crashed into the pentagon, but i found a flash video that compiles all the proof and thought you might want a look. its a flash video and the load time is quick so dont wory about that.

The Link

even if you dont believe it, you should still have a look

Aww man, a thread about the same thing just got closed 2 posts down!

Maybe you'll find the links found on this page (link below) more interesting

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/investigation77.htm

Forget to mention you got those posts closed.

Vimjams

Uhh, no I didnt. Why do you feel the need to keep following me and provoking me anyway?

Stellar...stop with the tears will you.

The last two posts on this subject were closed because of your constant griping.
Following you? Jeez you don't 'arf flatter youself....This is a 911 subject is it not?
and I have been posting in the other 911 threads before they were closed...Have I not?
I was thinking of starting another 911 thread...But this one will do!

Vimjams

The last two threads were not closed because of "me" 9/11 and bush was closed because of both of us, and maybe you should check 911 and the pentagon thread... it was open until you showed up again. This one is gonna get closed too I bet, seeing as how you always feel the need to come to a topic and start blaming me for something.

Stellar and Vimjams cool it, this is a discussion forum not a deathmatch ring. I'd hate to see yet another thread closed due to constant bickering.

I take note of what you are saying Blood Angel...I too would hate to see another 911 'conspiracy' thread close because of (lacking in) argument and bad tempers.

Recently there has been a bit of 911 'conspiracy' debunking...see this link

http://www.oilempire.us/bogus.html

But fortunately...This itself is questionable.

see these links

http://rense.com/general58/podd.htm

http://rense.com/general58/bogus.htm

It just goes round and round....But it will never be forgotten.

Vimjams

It's all very curious

It gets even more curious when you consider that the worlds media flatly ignore certain facts in favour of the propaganda the US government pumps out.
One of those facts relate to the names of the so-called hijackers...Several of them reported to police stations around the world saying "Hey...That guy is me...I wasn't on that plane...I'm here"

Vimjams

You turds!!!! I leave for abit, come back, and find the coolest thread closed!!! You all get coal for Christmas.

I can't believe the Pod People are still hanging around.

Quick fact: The two planes that hit the WTC, were tracked by radar from take-off, up to the time they hit the towers. In order for a Pod plane to have hit the tower, it could not have left Logan without some one noticing a massive pod (bomb?) hanging off it's underbelly. It would also require that members of the FAA lie as to the track of both planes in order to switch planes enroute.

Quick fact 2: The plane that hit the Pentagon was also tracked by radar up until a few seconds before impact.

Question 1: Where is there any evidence..... That any hi-jacker who has been identified as being one of those responsible for 9/11 has surrendered to any authority?

Stillcrazy...As much as you can't believe the 'pod people' are still around I am sure they equally can't believe that people still continue to believe the 'gumph' about 911 that is put out (officially)

I personally can not believe there are people still so gullible as to accept (without the slightest doubts) an official story that is riddled with inconsistencies, vague realities and dubious 'facts' .



Not "hijacker" but (Identity)

Seek and ye shall find.

http://www.rense.com/general29/obls.htm

http://www.welfarestate.com/911/

Vimjams

I don't know what you mean by that but it has been clearly documented on vairious news sites that people have been blamed for it when they haven't and weren't even in the country at the time of the attacks. Someone even claimed that his passport had been stolen.

Oh, right. We shot our own missile into the Pentagon. Sure.

Jesus.

Good Points. And very good links.

If you read the FBI's report, it clearly states that the hi-jackers where known by these names, and it also clearly states that due to lack of physical evidence such as DNA or recoverable dental records, positive I.D. has NEVER been made.

Back to the other two points. Again. How do you change the flight path on radar that was not only picked up by the FAA sites, but military and civilian radar stations as well. Three of the four flights never left radar until they impacted. The fourth, the flight that ended in the ground in PA. was the only flight to leave radar and then re-appear.

Now if all four flights or even one flight had been changed or substitute for a plane or planes with bombs or other explosive devices, what happened to the plane and passengers.

BTW: I'm not saying I accept the official version of what happened. I just don't accept the major conspiracy theory either. Too many holes in both versions.

This is the key issue that some people do not want to accept, because nobody happened to have a video camera filming the pentagon at the time.

The issue is how much of what we have been told is correct and how much is fabricated. To the best of my research and knowledge of airline crashes, it is feasible that a commercial airliner hit the towers at the WTC and Pentagon. The damage to the WTC was more noticable as being caused by a plane due to the buildings material and structure. Whereas the Pentagon, again due to materials and construction methods, damage would be different than what was witnessed at the military headquarters.

Again, it goes back to a point of you can't just make an entire flight disappear. Somewhere, someone would break the silence and come forward with information leading to the whereabouts of a plane and it's passengers.

One of the sites (on a closed thread) mentions the video cameras at the Hotel next to the Pentagon and another at the gas station on the base. It is a federal crime to film most federal Military bases and buildings. The Hotel would be interested in it's own security and not that of the Pentagon. The distance from the hotel to the Pentagon would make it unreasonable for the roof camera at the Hotel to have a legitimate reason to have any part of the Pentagon in it's field of view.

The camera at the filling station is for the security of that filling station. Again it would be focused on the pumps and not the building. If there was a wide angle lens on the camera, as with most surveillance cameras, it would be on extreme slow speed, perhaps a frame every 10 seconds. So it is possible that even if it were pointed at the building, it could have missed the entire crash.

It would also seem to me that if the powers in charge had a more clear film of the airliner crashing they would have released it by now. The film that has been released, and thus "proof' it was not a airliner, seems to fuel more theory's than it dispels. If I wanted to prove it was a commercial plane and not a missile, I would either provide a picture of the plane hitting the building, or not provide anything at all.

Yes, I suspect that a couple of airliners really did hit the WTC towers. I am aware that this is a really wild and speculative theory, but I seem to remember seeing something about it on the news once.......like film footage of planes hitting the towers or something. The evidence was very tenuous though. The first plane was filmed flying right into the first tower, so that can't be considered to be proof, and the second plane was filmed from multiple different angles as it entered the other tower, resulting in a huge fireball and debris raining down onto the streets below. However, this is again not particularly supportive evidence, since it is common knowledge that the US government brainwashed the entire world into believing that they were seeing two planes hit the WTC towers.

What actually happened here on that day is still a complete mystery

What do you mean by that? How did you come to that conclusion?

The explanation I heard was that the rader of the plane was intercepted by another plane which would be the plane that would perform the crash. The people monitoring the rader didn't notice the switch so they thought it was the same plane.

Let me get this right, you are saying only one plane hit the 2 trade towers? Um, I don’t think that’s possible!

He's using sarcasm, guys.

Here's an interesting letter (see link) from another one of those "crazy gullible conspiracy theorists".

From Karl W. B. Schwarz
President, Chief Executive Officer
Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC
10-13-4

http://rense.com/general58/demand.htm

Vimjams

Interesting to say the least. But he spouted most of the 'letter' in his book.

Karl W. B. Schwarz, the author you linked to has a credibility problem. 1st of all his company. There is no listing that I can find for Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC, He is Identified with a company called COMMAXXESS, Inc, that offered to buy out global crossing. Other than this, I cannot find any reference to him owning or being the president/CEO any nano tech company Also, when you type in Commaxxess.net or com you get a under construction page from the web host. Interesting for a multi billion dollar company.

"Karl W. B. Schwarz, General Partner, Managing Director. Former architect, design-build executive, former investment banker, financial institution work outs, commercial real estate finance and distress work outs, taxable lease revenue bonds, bondable leases, putable investment instruments, defeasance financing"

1st link
2nd link

I provided these two links so you can determine for yourself if Mr. Schwarz is a con man. If you'll note, he uses one title in one link, and a different title in the second link. But nohwere in his description above does he claim he is the CEO of either Patmos or COMMAXXASS. One other little point. Look at the phone number.


These are just a few that I care to mention at this time.

Many of his claims as to people and places and his involvement are un-verifiable

I suggest that instead of providing links, you provide your take on the events and your reasons why you believe that way.

I’ve read many of the reports and articles that are available either on-line, through books and other publications, as well as through FOIA. There are a lot of unanswered questions to be sure, but to date, no one that I can think of has offered a credible theory as to what happened. This includes G. Bush and co.

“The explanation I heard was that the radar of the plane was intercepted by another plane which would be the plane that would perform the crash. The people monitoring the radar didn't notice the switch so they thought it was the same plane.”

Radar would have given a collision alert. Plus it still does not explain what happened to the plane and it’s passangers.

Good catch stillcrazy!

OK I am dumb, i looked at the links and the phone numbers, what should i be seeing?

They are the same number. Two different companies and his title in the second link is general partner. Not CEO of anything, he doesn't even mention being a CEO of another company. This is why I feel that there is a credibility problem.

Well, I can see why you feel that way Stillcrazy...But it's not like the guy is 'criminal' and deserves disrespect for his comments or that it invalidates his questions now is it (?)



It is those 'unanswered' questions (still after three years) that are causing the conspiracy theories to continue and even escalate. A growing number of people find it incredible that the events simply occurred the 'official' way.
This was mass murder...And the authorities, apart from doing a weak job of investigation, also appear to be hindering other independent enquiries that are trying to establish the facts.



Jeez...Stillcrazy, that would take a long time to explain in one post. The people behind Tony Blair and the British government are criminals...That much is the same for the US government. This is my opinion which I base on years of listening to and reading about their corruption and their lies. That these people will take us to war for their own clandestine agenda (blatantly lie to us) leaves me in no doubts whatsoever as to the extent of their criminality and motivation.
As for my take on the events...I don't know what happened...But I don't believe their 'official' version.

Vimjams

The point is that in all his radio appearances and talk shows, as well as in his book he clearly states that he is the CEO of Patmos Nano tech. I cannot even find a company by that name in any SEC filing. It seems that his major business is bashing Bush and taking money from investors. It also seems that if he could prove any of the allegations in his letter and book, then the press that is backing kerry would be putting this into print and splashing it all over the telly.



Agreed, it seems that the investigation into the events surrounding nine-eleven are more muddled that the reasons we went to war. It seems that there are too many possibilities in the chain of events. Too much information is classified for reasons of national security. What is not forthcoming before the election is the official report, mainly because it will highlight the failures of the Bush administration, the Clinton administration, the Bush Sr. Administration all the way back to Carter. The backroom deals we never hear about are where the real facts are.



I don't believe the official version either. But as I said in an earlier post about the Pod people, it was only those that believe the planes were switched in mid-flight and an entire plane plus crew and passengers somehow vanished. Of course, if you believe that the Government is willing to kill a few thousand of it's own citizens, then what's a few more vanished souls aboard a plane. The Pod on the underbelly of the second plane is only seen in a single picture of the plane prior to it hitting the second tower. All other photo's don't show this mysterious 'pod'.

BTW Good post

I really don't know what I believe happened that day but I find the evidence very interesting.

Here's a good video. Not sure if it's the same, because the other will not open on my computer.




video!

I've got a copy of this video Kryso...It's very interesting and you are right: It is a good video...well produced.

Here's a list of links you might want to look through

http://rense.com/Datapages/inv911.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/investigation77.htm
http://www.wanttoknow.info/911timeline2pg

I've posted one or two before...But hey! who's counting. Keep it alive.

Vimjams

I wonder what this little snippet of a report is going to say about 911 (?)



http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/102004V.shtml

vimjams

Noones carrying the story, the only source is Mr Scheer

I wouldn't be expecting anything less (more) from you.

Vimjams

thats right, because we all know you have a reputation for posting unbiased, reputable articles...hell, at least post stuff by moderates lefties...

"moderate"...What's that?

Is that the same thing as telling lies to your people so you can get them to agree and go to war for you?

vimjams

i'd hazard to say the democrats (as a whole) are moderate left, just as the australian labor party imo are moderate left.

nice loaded question though, although i guess you'd first have to prove that it was a lie (i double dare you to prove it was a lie)

and its gotta be proof, not, "OMG OMG NO WMDS THEY LIED"

From that same conspiracy website is a picture of some aircraft wreckage.

No, its the same thing as you telling lies to your people so you can get them to agree on what you believe. Bathory did nothing wrong, he pointed out the fault in an article of yours, and you come back insulting him? I see that you dont want a discussion, all you want to do is preach and not be opposed...

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/phase1/
http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001...plane/index.php

no no redneck, thats a can of coke

Stellar...That's what I said.



Ok Bathory...You win. I moderately oppose the war and I moderately oppose the killing of innocent people. And I moderately oppose the fanaticism that is sweeping across the world. Now you won't need to get upset with my opinions...Because they are just like your own...moderate

Vimjams

Stellar...Rather than just come in and fling these loose statements around...How about showing everybody the 'insult' you claim I gave Bathory.



Oh Stellar...For your information I do actually get a pretty rough ride concerning my opinions and, I think most people who read these forums can see that this particular 'shoe' (about preaching) fits your feet...Not mine

Vimjams

Stillcrazy...Here's a link to an update on that Karl Schwarz article/letter I posted earlier.

http://rense.com/general58/demand.htm


You couldn't find relevant info on the guy and assumed he had a credibility problem because of it...




And I wish one of you moderators would have a word with Stellar about 'jumping' in and accusing me of insulting members when I haven't...I mean, it isn't necessary is it and this sort of thing (if it continues) only leads to retaliation.

Vimjams

I'm still not convinced that Schwarz is who he claims to be, but at this point I will give him the benefit of my doubts. But I will do so with some reservations as he has yet to respond to my e-mails. To get an idea of who he is and the companies he states he is involved in I am providing this link to a blog that he responded to. I am having my staff check into his claims once again as I do have access to public records at my finger tips.

You will need to read the entire blog line and make a decision for yourself.

Link

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens inthe next 11 days.

Alright.

"I wouldn't be expecting anything less (more) from you."
Theres your first attack, because you didnt like what he posted.

"Is that the same thing as telling lies to your people so you can get them to agree and go to war for you?"

Heres another attack on him.

And then I stepped in and posted.



Wanna bet? How about we ask a few people...?

Stellar...From your answer here and the examples you give...It simply means...Any reply constitutes an 'insult' as far as I are concerned.

Jeez: Get real!
Oops...I may have just insulted you (?)



Ask people what ?



Bathory said


My reply


Bathory said


My reply


Where's the 'insults'...apart from those you imagine and are trying to 'stir-up'

Vimjams

That's enough, back on topic please.

For thoughs skeptics and people who belive what the government tells them should watch this video. It takes appart 9-11 peice by peice and it includes Video footage, that was reported by News agencys such as Fox, NBC, and CNN.

9/11- In Plane Site

Watch it and it just might change your mind

~Thanato

I watched it, and I took IT apart, piece by piece. I can find all I wrote about it and post it here if you want...