the video of the pentagon security images that were leaked show something much smaller than a 757- the national geographic cover-up series only showed 2 of the 6 available frames and they cut off the right edge revealing the tailfin;not only that but they claimed the security camera only took 1 picture a second which is a flagrant lie as the leaked images show a much fast sequence-and what im saying is that a 757 did not hit the pentagon on 9/11-

heres a flash showing the leaked images-study them close and watch the national geographic whitewash "seconds from disaster" -the changes and lies are obvious

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php

You are jsut one of the many being manipulated, you just don't know it. Do you realize the area that camera is capturing? You could easily fit a 757 into that. You have to take into account how far the camera was from the plane and the the extent of the view of the camera.

What matters most isn't what hit the pentagon, but WHY anything hit the pentagon.

then why did the national geographic seconds from disaster series crop the right edge and not use 4 of the 6 frames giving a demonstratable lie as an excuse(that the camera only took one frame image per second)when we have the missing images?-

insight your comment is one of the most obvious and overlooked -good one!

The plane was going over 450 miles per hour, you do realize how fast that is right? How long do you think that camera has to catch the plane before it hits the pentagon? Maybe 1 second at most, which is what it was, we know it took more than 1 fram per second, because we have at least 2 good frames showing the plane before it hit and I garuntee you that a plane moving over 450 miles per hour was not caught by 2 frames on a camera that only takes one frame per second.

This is so utterly ridiculous. The images in the flash movie have been altered.

When I woke up that morning and signed online, I got an instant PM from my brother. "Hey bro, you watchin the news?"

Me: "Not yet. Just woke up..getting some coffee. Why..what's going on?"

Brother: "A plane just hit one of the World Trade Center Towers."

At this point, I turned to the news and knew that something big was happening so I immediately put a blank VHS tape in my recorder and just left it rolling.

I have everything live as it happened that entire morning on two videotapes. Including the very first live pictures of the Pentagon after it was struck.

I just took the tape out and forwarded to that spot...and you know what I saw?

The plane's fuselage hanging out of the building. You can even see part of the red in the American Airlines logo.

This theory has been thoroughly DEBUNKED.

my bad frost-i am assuming you have seen the national geographic whitewash series seconds from disaster--in their show about the pentagon they only use two frames of the six we know to exist from the freedom underground flash of the leaked version-on both images the right side is cropped so all you see in one is a contrail and the other just shows a rising ball of fire-it was never stated that they caught the plane in both images and i was just trying to point out how they didnt use all the available information and indeed went a step further by cropping the right side

Guys guys, WHO CARES WHAT HIT THE PENTAGON! This is just distracting from our real issue at hand! Which is, WHY DID ANYTHING HIT ANYTHING, and WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE!


The following is an analysis which is the technical information is taken right off Boeing's website.

The Boeing Jets were reported as fully flying between 6.5 to 7 g's when they struck the World Trade Center. Did you know that Boeing 767 and 757 cannot fly over 5 g's unless they are being flown by wire?(remote control). Also,only 767's and 757's all standardly come with this remote control global hawk type system! Did you also know that ONLY NORAD is able to pilot planes in this fly by wire manner? These jets have a fly by wire system in them where a pilot in the plane can ONLY fly the plane with the controls provided at 5 g's or less. This is in case they hit a large gust, or incredible turbulence, and the pilot falls and bumps the stick, so that the plane will not go into a nose dive. Infact, if you take the manual controls of these planes, and physically ram the controls forward, the plane will not nose dive because of this system.

This alone is damning enough evidence that the government did infact control these planes. But that's nothing. That's one little piece of information presented in a 2 hour presentation which has literally hundreds of facts like this one. And by facts, I mean new paper reports, documents, personal accounts, press releases, hearings, leaked documents, government documents, world wide press, and more. All of which I have easily been able to find and confirm by my own means. But it isn't just me. Not whatsoever.


infowars.com people.

Masters of Terror Documentary. Get it. Download it. I don't care how do get it, but if you don't, you are willfully living in ignorance.


People say, "The government could have done all this, they'd get caught!"

Well guess what honey, they did get caught. But the majority mass of people is too stupid to put it together. And the majority is all that matters as far as our government is concerned.


Lets all wake up and smell the propoganda.

It's obvious why they did it: THEY DON'T LIKE US. Whether you pulled the trigger of the gun to murder a man because you didn't like the way he looked at you or because the color of his skin, murder is murder no matter the intentions. You're right, the government didn't do it. You are living and a world of make believe and seriously need to come out of it, maybe its drugs, maybe you are paranoid, but for the sake of people around you Insight, come out of it.

The following is an analysis which is the technical information is taken right off Boeing's website.

Did you know that Boeing 767 and 757 cannot fly over 5 g's unless they are being flown by wire?(remote control).

Unfortunately not.

Yes, a large part of the Boeing fleet are now fly-by-wire, however this has nothing to do with remote control, it simply means that unlike the old system of wires throughtout the plane and the pilot directly pulling these it is now electronic, it's no different that say power steering in your car. The reason this comes into effect over 5g is because the pilot sim ply wouldn't have the strength to move the rudder with that level of resistance going against it without electronic help.

Frosty, is this another incedent where you didn't read my entire post? because I think it is. let me resate AGAIN what I have already said,and actually read it this time:

The following is an analysis which is the technical information is taken right off Boeing's website.

The Boeing Jets were reported as fully flying between 6.5 to 7 g's when they struck the World Trade Center. Did you know that Boeing 767 and 757 cannot fly over 5 g's unless they are being flown by wire?(remote control). Also,only 767's and 757's all standardly come with this remote control global hawk type system! Did you also know that ONLY NORAD is able to pilot planes in this fly by wire manner? These jets have a fly by wire system in them where a pilot in the plane can ONLY fly the plane with the controls provided at 5 g's or less. This is in case they hit a large gust, or incredible turbulence, and the pilot falls and bumps the stick, so that the plane will not go into a nose dive. Infact, if you take the manual controls of these planes, and physically ram the controls forward, the plane will not nose dive because of this system.

Do you know what NORAD is?

You're right, the government didn't do it.

That's the exact opposite of what I said. The government, the US government, made sept11th happen. Seriosuly dude, you didn't read my post did you?


You are living and a world of make believe and seriously need to come out of it, maybe its drugs, maybe you are paranoid, but for the sake of people around you Insight, come out of it.

I am at a loss to even know what you are talking about. Let me get one thing straight with a question: Do you, or do you not believe that sept11th was a US government orchestrated attack?

its obvious frosty and snowball are the same person-neither identity seems to have a real clue about anything-remote control on commercial airliners have been available for years-and the plane that witnesses at the scene described was an 8-12 passenger twin engine jet-which could have posessed an american airline logo,seats and landing gears which would have indistinguishable from any other after being slammed into a wall-focusing on petty details and ignoring the biggest issues seems to be another common trait demonstrated by those in denial--its vital at this point to demontstrate the fact that when a mistake is made by an air traffic control or norad personel disciplinary measures or termination is the result-standing down was not an accident or someone would have been repremanded in some way-to think that the pentagon got "caught" offgaurd is laughable and another red flag

Yeah, sorry Insight, I didn't read your post "correctly".

Remote control? From where, you are not agreeig that NORAD flew planes into the Pentagon? YOu still haven't posted who these I witnesses are, and you forget quite frequently that there is video proof of a 757 smashing into the pentagon. Pentagon was caught off gaurd and had no way of defending itself in that amount of time, I believe the only government facility that employs active air defense is the White House which uses stingers, not SAMS.

Call it blind Patriotism or a fanatical belief in what our Government says but here is the final numbers as I see them. 4 planes hijacked, 1 into each World Trade Center Tower, 1 into the field in Pennsylvania and 1 into the Pentagon. Sorry folks no conspiracy here other than the one perpetrated by Osama's goons. 1+1+1+1=4

Yes, a large part of the Boeing fleet are now fly-by-wire, however this has nothing to do with remote control, it simply means that unlike the old system of wires throughtout the plane and the pilot directly pulling these it is now electronic, it's no different that say power steering in your car.

did you even read what i was saying at all? NORAD has the ability to remote control airplanes. Look it up dude. Don't come on here spouting archaic facts that everyone laready knows under a different name. Give me a break. Either get some real knowledge, or leave us alone.




The reason this comes into effect over 5g is because the pilot sim ply wouldn't have the strength to move the rudder with that level of resistance going against it without electronic help.

No, that isn't it at all. I'm saying, it is completely inpossible for the plane to go over 5 g's unless NORAD is speciffically controlling it. Do you know what g's are?

Dude, who do you think trained Osama? Who do you think traned all the hijackers? Who do you think funded Osama. Who do you think funded AL-Queda? You obviously have not looked at a single financial report of where they money is going. You obviously have done no research into the history of Osama, OR Al-Queda. You are believing everything you see on TV.

Do some reaserch dude, because right now you aren't in the league to be able to argue your points here.

The conspiracy is real.Too much evidence and lying politicians to believe this one im afraid.
Theres no way Osamas goons could of pulled it off,without a little bit of help,or someone turning a blind eye to it.
Planes hitting the 2 towers was terrible but seemed like a genuine attack,as soon as I heard a plane had hit the Pentagon I thought this must be a bit dodgy,The Pentagons the hub of American defence,theres no way a plane would be able to be flown(by terrible pilots)into it,In any normal situation the plane would of been blown out of the sky!-Its almost like covering there tracks,("hay,us polititians are targets of terror too! so beware!)
And then the other plane crashing because the passengers fought back,Hmmmm?
It all seems a little Hollywood to me and a reason to kick someones ass,(a bit like Rocky 2)

Okay lets gets one thing straight I am not frosty posting under another name, go and talk with the MODs and get my IP checked if you still don't believe me. However, It appears to me that you are unwilling to discuss an important issue unless it's with people who will blindly support your belief system, that won't help anyone. Like I have already said I am here to investigate the matter as best I can and this is a helpful place to pool our resources and bounce ideas of each other, not to follow the party line of a single individual. I too have heard the idea that the planes were flown by remote control, and have even heard testimony from fighter pilots that say it is almost impossible to perform some of the manourvers (*sp) that they saw on that fateful day. However there is nothing to suggest on the Boeing website that their planes have this ability. Like I say fly-by-wire isn't remote control which is what you seem to be suggesting. If you have evidence to the contary I would like to see it because I have a genuine interest in discovering the facts of that day, but I am not going to allow my beliefs to cloud the facts in the way that you seem to have done, if this upsets you then I apologize, but by saying me and frosty must be the same person because we are questioning the ideas that you are presenting shows you are unwilling to listen to the facts unless they fit into what you already believe.

The Pentagon is right next to a major airport. Are you under the impression that there were anti-aircraft missiles based around the Pentagon with orders to shoot down civilian aircraft that get too close? There would have been more than one instance of civilian planes getting blown out of the sky if that had been the case.

[QUOTE]Insight Posted Yesterday, 11:32 PM
QUOTE(twpdyp @ Dec 8 2004, 03:06 PM)
Call it blind Patriotism or a fanatical belief in what our Government says but here is the final numbers as I see them. 4 planes hijacked, 1 into each World Trade Center Tower, 1 into the field in Pennsylvania and 1 into the Pentagon. Sorry folks no conspiracy here other than the one perpetrated by Osama's goons. 1+1+1+1=4[QUOTE]







Dude, who do you think trained Osama? Who do you think traned all the hijackers? Who do you think funded Osama. Who do you think funded AL-Queda? You obviously have not looked at a single financial report of where they money is going. You obviously have done no research into the history of Osama, OR Al-Queda. You are believing everything you see on TV.

Do some reaserch dude, because right now you aren't in the league to be able to argue your points here. [/QUOTE]
Not trying to argue any points, DUDE, just stating opinion. As far as being in the league, You are qualified to know if I am in your league because we are such close personal friends, you are telepathic, you education is far superior to mine, or is it just because my opinion differs from yours? You need to get a grip and stop thinking you know who you are talking to, you don't know me and I find it presumptuous for you to think that you do. As I stated in my post call it blind Patriotism or a fanatical belief in what our Government says but it is what I believe and that is what this forum is about right. I did enough research to satisfy myself and that is all that is required.

The panes did not come from an airport anywhere near the one you mentioned. It took them almost an hour to reach the pentagon. Besides, Andrews Airforce base is 10 minutes (BY CAR) from the pentagon. The base containsmany F-16 fighter jets. These could have been scrambled within minutes of the flights going off from their designated course. And as far as anti-aircraft missles are concerned...are you referring to the missles an F-16 carries? Ground bases missiles aren't really the issue here. Flight protocol dictates that ANY flight leaving it's designated course is intercepted. And if it does not respond, it is shot down by the interceptors.

The Pentagon is right next to a major airport. Are you under the impression that there were anti-aircraft missiles based around the Pentagon with orders to shoot down civilian aircraft that get too close? There would have been more than one instance of civilian planes getting blown out of the sky if that had been the case.

This statement displays lack of knowledge about the surrounding area and it's defenses. Why would a civilian air port have missiles when there is an actual airforce base right by the pentagon.


Remote control? From where, you are not agreeig that NORAD flew planes into the Pentagon?

I'm saying NORAD flew the planes into the WTC centers. I haden't yet gotten to the pentagon.


YOu still haven't posted who these I witnesses are, and you forget quite frequently that there is video proof of a 757 smashing into the pentagon.

I don't care what hit the pentagon. It could have been a ton of bricks for all I care. that isn't the real issue at all. The real issue is that SOMETHING hit the pentagon, and the government said it was the terrorists, not them.


Pentagon was caught off gaurd and had no way of defending itself in that amount of time, I believe the only government facility that employs active air defense is the White House which uses stingers, not SAMS.

You don't seem to have any knowledge of Andrews AirForce base, which is ten minutes by car from the pentagon. It takes only minutes to scramble a couple of F-16's. They could have intercepted the plane which hit the pentagon, but they were ORDERED to stand down. Look it up for yourself.

I don't know who said this but it made me laugh. A stinger launcher, is a handheld/vehicle mounted SAM - SAM meaning surface-to-air-missile. The white house is however not protected by stingers, its probably protected by patriot SAM batteries.

maybe your right snowfrost i may have been jumping to conclusions-i mean the chance of two people not knowing about readily available technology could happen-but here is the info you requested--

**************************************
Flight Deck

The 757-200 flight deck, designed for two-crewmember operation, pioneered the use of digital electronics and advanced displays. Those offer increased reliability and advanced features compared to older electro-mechanical instruments.

A fully integrated flight management computer system (FMCS) provides for automatic guidance and control of the 757-200 from immediately after takeoff to final approach and landing. Linking together digital processors controlling navigation, guidance and engine thrust, the flight management system ensures that the aircraft flies the most efficient route and flight profile for reduced fuel consumption, flight time and crew workload.

The precision of global positioning satellite system (GPS) navigation, automated air traffic control functions, and advanced guidance and communications features are now available as part of the new Future Air Navigation System (FANS) flight management computer.
**************************************************************

General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc. developed a remote-controlled reconnaissance plane for the Air Force called Predator, which flew in Bosnia during the conflict there. Used by the military since 1994, it can be landed by pilots linked by satellite using controls on the ground or ordering an onboard computer to do the job.

Tom Cassidy, president and CEO of the San Diego company, said he sent Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta a letter shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks.

"Such a system would not prevent a hijacker from causing mayhem on the aircraft or exploding a device and destroying the aircraft in flight," the letter said, "but it would prevent him from flying the aircraft into a building or populated areas."

Cassidy said Thursday that a pilot aboard a commercial airliner could turn the plane's guidance over to ground controllers at the press of a button, preventing a hijacker--or anyone else aboard--from flying the plane.

That system also would keep people on the ground from taking control of a plane away from the pilot, Cassidy said, because the pilot would first have to give up control.

Aircraft anywhere in the nation could be remotely controlled from just one or two locations using satellite links, Cassidy said. Those locations could be heavily fortified against terrorists.

"The technology is available," Cassidy said. "We use it every day."

http://www.911-strike.com/remote_bb.htm

Right, so Tom Cassidy clearly states that they have developed a remote control system and it is used in their predator surveillence system, he also says that had the system been used in the 757-200 flight deck it could have averted the tragedy and you jump to the unfounded conclusion that all Boeing 757-200's have this system already fitted, even though you have just shown it stated that it hasn't. My arguement is not that it isn't possible, my arguement is that it isn't happening, and you have just reinforced that argument. I especially enjoyed the part where you pointed out, in red, to me that aircraft have auto pilot fitted like it's something other than cruise control.

he sent Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta a letter shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks

Such a system would not prevent a hijacker from causing mayhem on the aircraft

it would prevent him from flying the aircraft into a building

a pilot aboard a commercial airliner could turn the plane's guidance over to ground controllers

Aircraft anywhere in the nation could be remotely controlled

Can you see what he is saying, he is saying what the system is capable of if the system was fitted, if it was already fitted he's be explaining why it didn't work, don't you think?

Your decision to think I am Frosty is like your argument, in that it is based on nothing other than what fits into what feels good for you. Either you are blind to the wholes in your argument and would rather paper over them than find the truth or you're a spook trying to spread misinformation to cloud the issue.

Right, so Tom Cassidy clearly states that they have developed a remote control system and it is used in their predator surveillence system, he also says that had the system been used in the 757-200 flight deck it could have averted the tragedy

He is wrong. The system I was talking about is totally different.



and you jump to the unfounded conclusion that all Boeing 757-200's have this system already fitted, even though you have just shown it stated that it hasn't.

You talking about something which does not apply to the situation.

Do you know what NORAD is, and what they do?


The hijackers didn't fly the aircraft in it's final minutes. NORAD did.


Your decision to think I am Frosty is like your argument, in that it is based on nothing other than what fits into what feels good for you.

I don't think you have spent as much time researching this as I. Trust me, I used to be you. I used to defend George Bush, and argue against the wild conspiracy theorists. I dug very deep to PROVE that 9/11 was not in any way a government organized attack. But the deeper I dug, the more I realized I was into something much bigger than what my mind could handle at the time. It took me alot of digging to fillay accept the truth.

I suggest you do the same.

Dudes, I don't believe the CIA trained Usama, dude. I think they gave him weapons to defend against the Soviets in order to bring about the collapse of Soviet bloc countries, dude. The Afghan war itself was the last major turning point in the collapse of the bloc countries and the Soviet Union. We did not intend for Usama to attack us. The attack against the US had no basis other than jealousy.

Your claim to say that NORAD flew planes into the buildings has absolutly no basis what so ever. No fact, no truth, no evidence. Yes, we have the tech to fly planes by remote control, but LMAO, that tech has been around for decades.

Insight, have you read the 9/11 Commision Report, I have given links to it on this thread? You need to read it.

The US trained Usama and other Fighters in Afganhistan during the Afgahn-Soviet War. And They gave them weapons. But after the Soviet withdrawl, the US left as well leaving the Country in chaos, thats one of the major resons He and others hate the US.

~Thanato

1: How would cavilians know what a cruise missile is like?
2: The hole made was small and circular, not plane shaped, because the plane had already started exploding once it started hitting the ground.
3: Those videos and pictures were created and edited by a french author, don't believe me, look it up on any American news station.

Just look at this Snopes article that proves how it was real, and not staged...

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

im not sure who your refering to-where does it say or who said cruise missle?
which video and pictures are you refering to?-the freedom underground flash?hunt the boeing is not whats being discussed

the thread is about dave von kleist's "in plane site" heres a link to watch it for free
http://www.fourwinds10.com/news/08-media/A..._Plane_Site.zip

heres the pentagon flash-the pentalawn
http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon121.swf

heres "9/11 the great illusion"
http://www.lastingnetworks.com/alexvideos/911GI128.wmv

the snopes webpage proves nothing-there is no evidence presented other than skeptical assumptions based on media propaganda
physics is proof enough that at the given angle of penetration the 125 ft wingspan would have left debri!-von kleist demonstrates the evidence for demolition by showing the clean cut collapse,supposedly from fire,yet a book inches from the damage is unharmed-there are many versions being presented in order to cloud the waters it is important to single out the truth by analyzing the facts and evidience-not taking some reporters word for it or dismissing the bunch due to a few bad apples-
does the evidence of foreknowledge of the oklahoma attack do nothing towards your
wtc attack perspective?
here it is again
first i would like you to note how the fire was not that intense and was going out when the towers collapsed-would this photo be possible if what i stated was not true?


ok now look at this sequecnce and explain what caused the balls of flame in between frames 073 and 097 that were surely the cause of the collapse

can you deny that there is a burst of fire in these frames after which the tower collapses?

also relavent is this premonition-Republicans own documents folks a year before the attack
Proof of premeditation of motive that "a 9/11" would game the system to their advantage, is downloadable from a Bush/Cheney think tank, in the form of a U.S. foreign policy paper titled "Rebuilding America's Defenses". On page 51, Project for a New American Century (PNAC) predicts that transformation to its aggressive defense/energy-driven agenda would be a slow one, unless one condition should just happen to transpire: "a catalyzing and cataclysmic event ... like a new Pearl Harbor." It is dated September 2000

more foreknowledge of wtc...
is this just a coincidence?look at the card with the towers gone and a smoke skull in its place--C'mon-a lucky guess?its named ILLUMINATTI NWO for pete's sake
here is evidence of foreknowledge of the wtc attacks in 95' a strategy card game was released titled "illuminatti new world order" which contained cards that point to obvious foreknowledge-note the cards- one depicting the wtc being attacked another showing the pentagon being attacked(not destroyed) and yet another showing a cloud of smoke in the shape of a skull demonstrating the end result of the wtc attack-plus others yet to be fulfilled-



http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1753.cfm
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1857.cfm

PROOF of oklahoma foreknowledge
here is proof of foreknowledge of the oklahoma federal murrah building attack which took place in 95'- in a book,written by the brother of the oklahoma govenor,a federal building was targeted for a terrorist attack by a TOM MCVEY-the book was dedicated to the knights of the secret circle

Coincidence?
The Governor of Oklahoma Frank Keating has a brother, Martin Keating, who also happens to be a writer. Four years BEFORE the Oklahoma City bombing actually occurred he submitted a manuscript for publication. The manuscript, now published as �The Final Jihad,� tells the story of a group of terrorists based in Oklahoma City who decide to bomb a federal building there. However in the book the bombing never occurs because the terrorists are stopped by a highway patrolman for a broken tail light; in much the same way that Timothy McVeigh was stopped for speeding whilst leaving Oklahoma City.

Stranger still is book�s blurb which claims that: �Martin Keating is a master storyteller with unique access to government intelligence agencies and clandestine terrorist groups. His brother Frank Keating, currently governor of Oklahoma, is a former FBI agent and assistant secretary of the Treasury who supervised the Secret Service, U.S. Customs, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Keating's uncle, Barney Martin was a career intelligence officer who headed the U.S. Navy's worldwide foreign intelligence collection operations and counterintelligence activities.

Introduced to the intelligence community through generations of family involvement, Martin Keating knows intimate details of what the rest of us can only imagine.� But get this: the villain of Keating�s tale is not called Tim McVeigh but . . . Tom McVey.
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=145

i wish you would comment on this-none of the skeptics around here has yet

Wrong. Usama hated the United States long before the U.S. left Afghanistan at the end of the Soviet occupation. He was not trained or funded by the U.S. Being independently wealthy and in control of his own construction company, he did not need or want our help. The U.S. supported various other resistance groups. Usama's decision to translate his hatred into active warfare against the United States was taken after the first Gulf War.

One of the arguments brought forward in these videos and books is that it was a cruise missile, and one of the witness reports stated "sounded like a cruise missile".

1)Neither one of us can possibly know how much time the other has spent researching this.
2)Believe me, you were never me.
3)I have never defended George Bush, I believe him to be a corporate crook more interested in seizing power and making money that making a better world for us all to live in and if my beliefs are correct I want to be one of the people that help lock him away for the crimes he has commited.
4)I too wanna find the facts and that is why I am here, I want you to keep digging Insight you are getting there, but sometime you are too zealous, together we'll get there, I admire your enthusiasm but don't tell me you don't need it reigned in every now and then, and that's where I come in.

I am not here to squash your ideas more to add some perspective. Be careful, if, as like me, you believe the goverment have orchestrated this attack to allow their agenda to be inacted you have to agree that they will be working on discrediting the ideas we hold, this is called disinformation, if you believe all the dross that is out there because it fits your belief rather than judging each case on it's merits then the valid points you make will be lost when one of your points is proved wrong, a rotten apple spoils the barrel is the term.

Please believe when I say I am glad there are people like you out there, too many people are ready to bury their heads in the sand and forget this or just can't believe this would happen, you only have to scratch the surface to realise that it is completely feasible, but lets be careful how we collect our evidence.

Because these people had prior knowledge as to what a cruise missile sounded like or because both jumbo jets and cruise missiles emplore trubine engines?

To the best of my knowlage, Cruise Missiles use Solid Fuil Rockets.

~Thanato

Thank you thanato, I was thinking of globhawk and tomahawk.

are u implying that belgium bomed the pentagon because it looks like it in the missiles thrust

How do you all sleep at night worrying about all of the bugger men out there trying to get us? I would be up every night worrying about it. Seriously, don't you get ulcers or have heart attacks from all of the stress? Life is stressful enough without inventing things to worry about. Take a chill pill and rejoice, the Atlanta Falcons clinched a play off spot this year!!!!!!

Fear is acontrol device put in place by the powers. Once we can eliminate fear we become dangerous to them. I am not scared to learn the truth, nor to speculate on it. For some, it would be a life which dwells in paranoia. For me, it is a life of information and uncovering secrets. It bother's me, for sure, but it does not consume me.

- The thing is, the governments and media are filling your lives with fear everyday, terrorist attack this, escaped convict that. When was the last time you heard good uplifting news?

Never.

I don't see how anyone can claim that we are, today, more filled with fear in our everyday lives than say 30-40 years ago. I'm not trying to downplay how terrible the terrorist attacks on 9/11 were or how terrible another terrorist attack could be. However, during the Coldwar people had to worry about an all out nuclear war and essentially the end of life as we know it, not just a terrorist attack in one or a few locations. So I don't see how there could possibly be more (justified) fear in peoples everyday lives today then at that time. Anyone agree?

i bet you watch wwf and fox-also i have come to terms with reality and am prepared for what is coming-with preperation comes confidence-you,on the other hand,WILL be "taken" by surprise

are you joking? uh...lets see..20 years ago they had the same threats we do today except there was no natioal id and a computer system capable of recording every moment,an implatable chip just waiting for the right bill to pass,and a biological capacity to constuct designer viruses from the atom up hhmmm this is a tough one

Yeah, people during Cold War had to worry about nuclear hollocaust. Nothing compared to the terrible electronization of your gender, age, SS number, and criminal history.

If you think we worry as much today as we did in the past, you need to check out and watch the movie "The Day After". That movie was a very real scenario to most Americans, and the threat of nuclear war was every bit as real as the threat of terrorist bombings, only far more tragic in consequence.

what im saying is that we have everything i stated to worry about on top of the threat of nuclear terrorism/holocaust-do we not?-anyone with common sense is already aware that micro-nukes were used at the wtc-14 of the dogs used for sniffing out survivors died soon after and it is common knowledge that clean-up did not begin for six weeks due to a molten pool of concrete and steel that had to cool-

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14 WTC search and rescue
dogs dead

Daily News Exclusive

By HEIDI EVANS
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Maryland Firefighter John Gilkey with his dog, Bear.
Fourteen search and rescue dogs have died since their exposure to toxic rubble from the Sept. 11 terrorist attack - including eight from cancer, according to a study by the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine. But researchers believe there is no connection between the deaths and the chemicals they were exposed to.

Despite the study's findings, some of the owners whose dogs have died still blame the toxic brew the dogs immersed themselves in during the hunt for survivors and remains.

"We can't find any link at this point that ties the 14 deaths to events of Sept. 11," said Dr. Cynthia Otto, the study's lead researcher. "Some have passed away, but the causes of death are no different than in the control group. That is good news."

Otto's team, which has been monitoring the health of 97 dogs who worked at Ground Zero, the Pentagon and the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island, did find "significantly higher" antibodies in the search dogs in the first year after the terrorist attack.

The elevated presence of antibodies, she explained, showed the dogs had been exposed to foreign substances that pressed their immune systems into higher gear.

Although Otto was heartened to find the vast majority of dogs were in good health, given the exposure and the blood changes in the first year, questions remain about possible long-term effects.

"I don't think these dogs are completely out of the woods," she said. "That is why we need to monitor these dogs until the end of their lives - for the dogs' sake and for people's sake. If there is a problem in the dogs down the line, there is a good chance a similar problem could be found in people."

Among the canine deaths was Servus, a 12-year-old Belgian Malinois police dog, who had to be carried out on a stretcher from Ground Zero after he fell into a hole face down, his snout and lungs filled with concrete dust and ash. He died of pancreatitis, Otto said.

And Anna, a 4-year-old German shepherd who spent three days crawling on her belly trying to scent any survivors, was put down Aug. 2, 2002, ravaged by an unusual bone-eating fungal infection.

"Anna had been to the vet two months before she was deployed, and her blood work and X-rays were fine," said Sarah Atlas, a New Jersey emergency medical technician and Anna's handler. "I know the university did everything they could to help her, and they say that Anna was probably genetically predisposed to the disease, but in my heart I know what I feel."

John Gilkey, a Maryland firefighter, lost his 10-year-old chocolate Labrador retriever, Bear, to hepatitis last September. The dog's liver tests were not normal before the eight nights he spent on the World Trade Center pile, and blood tests and a biopsy showed disease soon afterward.
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"MOLTEN STEEL"

In the basements of the collapsed towers, where the 47 central support columns connected with the bedrock, hot spots of "literally molten steel" were discovered more than a month after the collapse. Such persistent and intense residual heat, 70 feet below the surface, could explain how these crucial structural supports failed.

Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, New York, told AFP that he saw pools of "literally molten steel" at the World Trade Center. Tully was contracted on September 11 to remove the debris from the site.

Tully called Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Maryland, for consultation about removing the debris. CDI calls itself "the innovator and global leader in the controlled demolition and implosion of structures."

Loizeaux, who cleaned up the bombed Federal Building in Oklahoma City, arrived on the WTC site two days later and wrote the clean-up plan for the entire operation.

AFP asked Loizeaux about the report of molten steel on the site. "Yes," he said, "hot spots of molten steel in the basements." These incredibly hot areas were found "at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven [basement] levels," Loizeaux said. The molten steel was found "three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed,"

http://www.global-conspiracies.com/21715.htm

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/bollyn2.htm

Not to the same degree people did during the Cold War in which the US and Russia had their nukes aimed at each other.

Check this out: (sorry if it's been posted before)

Pentagon Attack Cover-Up

Please comment.....

BUNK

Chris! If only the guy who made it charged 0.10$ per viewing of that film...