First I want to hear all of your thoughts on the murder of John F. Kennedy, how many gun men, where was he shot from, how many times was he shot, was there a cover up, or did the media add to the assasination.

After you tell me all of that, I want to know what you think the world would be like if he wasnt assasinated. Since this must go under Alternative History. What would he have done for this country. I personally believed the assasination of John F. Kennedy enraged young and old african americans in the north and the south. John F. Kennedy fought for equal rights for all races. We he was assisnated I believe this help fuel some of the violent acts of the Civil Rights Movements. I would just like to hear your thoughts.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, by the way he was a Democrat.

With your kind permission, I won't comment much on the how's and where's, just saying that I believe there isn't really any big mystery. Facts, on my opinion, are simple (well, as much as they can be when we're talking about the assasination of the President). He was shot, by one man (L.H. Oswald), who was probably acting under orders, god knows by whom. And yes, media DID play their part in the creation of the "kennedy" conspiracy.

As for the "what if", which is the interesting part. After the cuba crisis, Kennedy had come to a political level of existence within America that could assure two things. First is, that most probably America wouldn't go to war in Vietnam, definately not on the catastrophic scale that it did. Secondly, Kennedy would quite probably take aggresive measures to fight for equality. The difference with Johnson (a bit underestimated President, on my opinion) is that Kennedy had the persona to get things rolling. Johnson, who also followed a similar policy regarding equality, lacked a bit in the "aggresivity" section.

Interesting detail:
As most (if not all) things in history come into a chain of consequences, it's interesting to examine the course of post-Vietnam America under the prisma of the Kennedy assasination. Had Kennedy survived, he would most probably be re-elected, meaning that Democrats would be in White House until 1968. Had Vietnam not taken place, a quite probable scenario under Kennedy, Nixon's chances of winning the elections would have been much less. Scenario sounds familiar? Try to compare it with what's going on these days, and the voices shouting "We need someone (call me: Bush) who can hit the hammer on the anvil and win the war against terror"

History just repeats itself? Nah, it's just the humans that forget easily

The Democrats did have the White House until 1968,Vice-President Lyndon Johnson assumed the presidency after JFK was assassinated and finished his term.He was then elected President in 1964.He was a Democrat.

I believe that JFK was shot twice,once in the throat,once in the head.The throat shot appeared to be from the rear and the head shot from the front.This would mean at least 2 gunmen,possibly 3.From a recording of an open police mic you can hear a total of 4 gun shots(2 of which were almost simultaneous),JFK was hit twice and the govenor of Texas was hit once (probably by accident) so one shot didn't hit anybody in the car.One bystander reported being hit by some fly debris where a bullet hit the curb and sprayed concrete.This would back up the sound of 4 gun shots on the recording.If you have 4 gun shots coming from at least 2 directions there has to be more than 1 person involved therefore,by definition,you have a conspiracy.

As for the media's part,they aided the conspiracy and following cover-up by not questioning any of the supposed "facts" feed them by the government.They bought,and resold to the public,the "single gunman" and "magic bullet" theories without question.

Who did it and why?There are many theories,some substantiated by evidence,others not.I can say(IMHO),beyond a shadow of a doubt,that Oswald did NOT kill JFK alone(if he even fired a shot at all) and there was indeed a conspiracy to assassinate President John F. Kennedy and they succeeded in doing so and covering it up.

Law of Reocurrance and Reincarnation!

Hi, below is a small mystery.... enjoy !!!!

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
Both wives lost a child while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
Both Presidents were shot in the head.

Now it gets really weird.

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's Secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.
Both were succeeded by Southerners named Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in1908.

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names! are composed of fifteen letters.

Now hang on to your seat!

Lincoln was shot at the theatre named "Ford."
Kennedy was shot in a car called "Lincoln" made by "Ford."

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

And here's the "kicker":

A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.
A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with Marilyn Monroe.

and Lincoln was shot in a theatre and the assassin ran to a warehouse.

Kennedy was shot from a warehouse and the assassin ran to a theatre.

http://www.funnotes.net/LincolnAndKennedy.htm

True, of course. What I meant to say is that had Kennedy remained in power, it would have been much more difficult for Nixon to be elected, for the reasons I mentioned.

As for


Now, THAT's something I never heard before in the Lincoln/Kennedy stuff.
Good one

I must clear this first, John F. Kennedy is the only democratic presidental canidate or president for that matter that I would support so far. After we have got this bias out of the way I can now continue.


I thank you for all of your feedback. I believe that if John F. Kennedy was not assisanated that this world we know today would be much different. Right now I am going to speak on my mind if I come off as racist I truly am sorry. There is still hate between black and whites we all know it, and that color barrier will always remain. John F. Kennedy would've worked for racial equality, I believe young caucasians in the south were absoultey infuriated being I am white and I have no prejudice in my body. Also, if John F. Kennedy would've stayed in office I believe we would not have entered the Vietnam War, or to an extent only sent relief efforts and supplies to the South Vietanemse.

On the idea of the "Kennedy & Lincoln" conspiracy it is my idea that it is neither a coincidence or a conspiracy, there are too many coincidences and the two deaths were two far apart, in my opinion. I really cant explain it.


I would certainly appreciate some more feed back on what the world would be today with our beloved president. And I thank you all for the feedback you have already given.

if your ever in boston MA go to the JFK museum it has some great things about his assassination

I cant help but think how much better this world would be if he was not assisnated. I am not saying the racial gap would be filled but it would be a lot closer to being field. And believe it or not he was a democrat.

In my opinion: it was Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone. The "acoustic evidence" of a fourth shot has been pretty well debunked. At the moment of the supposed "shot", Sheriff Decker was recorded making a statement("hold everything secure" or something like that) that is known to have been spoken about a minute after the shooting. There was a botched investigation and a couple bizarre facts, but that doesn't constitute positive evidence of a conspiracy.

The government case all revolves around the "magic bullet". If the magic bullet is fabricated, then the government's case falls apart. But while unlikely, it is possible that the bullet caused all the effects attributed to it and emerged relatively unscathed. Bullets do weird things in bodies.

What would Kennedy have done in a second term? Not much if you ask me. He hardly accomplished anything in his first term. Kennedy asked for civil rights legislation from Congress, but Congress did nothing. He was so ill that he probably would not have lived out a second term. His successor, LBJ, got a lot more accomplished in social policy, civil rights and other areas.

The main thing is Vietnam would have been avoidable, we would have sent relief efforts and supplies to the south vietnamese but as far as the catastrophic event of Vietnam it coulve have been avoided.

I think that there were only three shots fired, as seen on the Discover Channel he couldve fired three accurate shots, and had time to descend the stairs from the Texas Despistory, to the diner. He then could have walked the route the Governement said he could have walked.

These are some reasons I believe he acted alone.

Oswald acted alone, Jack Ruby acted alone. I believe that John F. Kennedy was the last Kennedy worth a hoot. Unless his affair with Marilyn Monroe became public knowledge John Kennedy was destined for a second term. He would have gone down as the last great democratic President. His inauguration speech was wonderful" Ask not what you country can do for you but what you can do for your country". That is a wonderful sentiment. Unfortunatly any Kennedys since then have fallen far short of JFK. Drunks and murderers, remember Ted Kennedy and Mary Jo Kopechne.

My opinion - John F. Kennedy was assinated by a group of two or three men. What I have found out done by research is actually startling. I'm sure many of you know what I'm about to tell you. People have proved that its impossible for only Lee Harvey Oswald to be the only person who was involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. People have substituted in Oswald's place and used the same exact sniper rifle he has used. They shot one in the exact location John F. Kennedy was shot, and then he reloaded the gun, which took an estimated guess of about 30 seconds said by specialists. By the time he reloaded his second shot, the car was out of sight. John F. Kennedy was shot twice, through the neck downwards, and through his scalp sideways. It has been proved that its physically impossible for Lee Harvey Oswald to be the only person involved in this assassination. There was atleast one more man who shot John F. Kennedy from a different angle at two different times closley related. Who could this man be? Where was he?
After the first shot, Kennedy went into shock holding his neck in an odd way. His wife startled and confused looked at him. The second shot, through his head, his wife screamed in horror and leaned over the door to get help grabbing someones hand. The driver, realizing what had happened, immediatley drove, stepped on the pedal, and went to the nearest hospital. John F. Kennedy was announced "Dead".
Lee Harvey Oswald ran outside, slowly walked, and walked on his way to a movie theatre. On his way, a policeman became suspicous after the immediate even just happened and he decided to follow him. Lee Harvey Oswald realized that he was being followed and he soon took action. He bent down, took a small pistol out of his sock, and turned around, shooting the police officer. With few witnesses, Lee Harvey Oswald ran to the movie theatre. Soon, policemen flooded the streets, witnesses reporting that the murderer ran inside that movie theatre, pointing to the one across the block. They soon found the man inside the movie theatre slowly trying to blend in. He was caught. After being arressted, a man, Jack Ruby, ran infront of him and shot him in the stomach. Lee Harvey Oswald was announced dead.
Many people believe Jack Ruby was the other person involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy and he killed Lee Harvey Oswald so he wouldn't talk about something...but what was he going to talk about? He knew the answers. But other people believe, after Jack Ruby's statements on show, that he wasn't involved in it and the only reason he assasinated Lee Harvey Oswald is because he had many feelings for John F. Kennedy.
I personally feel Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby, forming a conspiracy, was involved in the assasination of John F. Kennedy for political and/or personal reasons. But as we all say, the world may never know...?

Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt Lee Harvey Oswald found in the same book depository where he apparently shot JFK?

I dont think he ran from the warehouse and to a theatre and back in the minutes from when JFK was shot till when they found him sitting down taking a break from work with a drink from a vending machine?

The world? No.

Now, if several world leaders were assassinated at the same time during, say, a peace conference, then yes, the world would be changed. For a while.

I very much doubt that one little American leader's death had (or would have) any real significance on the rest of the world.

Basically, the attitude is "if it ain't happenin' in my backyard or if no one's messin' with my neighbours I don't give a toss..."

Unless you have a serious malfunction of some kind, it does not take anywhere near 30 seconds to fire 3 shots from a bolt action rifle.

I reckon the world would have been a happier place filled with flowers and marshmallows....NOT! We live in a society of moral decline.

Had jfk not been killed I am sure he would of done some good, however 3 things need to be remembered here.

1 JFK was a politiction who we all know cant be trusted with ... well anything

2 He had power . ultimate power and i truly belive the old adage power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely

3 Is this another case of rose colored glass' i wonder. Its like the john lennon thing - few people dilike j.l. because he died while he still had his morals in tact and hadn't sold out, how do we know that j.l. wouldn't have take the paul mcartney route sold out so often it hurts?? with this in mind how do we know that JFK would not have done something simalar (only with polotics and not songs ...obviously

discuss

He is right, the bolt action sniper should take no longer than three seconds to reload. And seeing how Lee H. Oswald was supposlevy a "sharp-shooter" it would be a walk in the park for him.

I can't believe that someone else thought of that other than me. I was just thinking the other day, "What is we could go back in time somehow and change every presidental election so that the one that didn't win would. How different would the world be if we would have had totally different presidents. For instance, what is Lincoln was never president? Would there have been a civil war. Wouldn't this make the coolest movie? I think I shall write a screenplay!

Here we go again...

Why would the election or assassination of one of this planets leaders have a global effect? It wouldn't. It would affect that country alone, not the world.

America=the world?

Go to Seravalle in San Marino and ask anyone on the street who John F. Kennedy is.

If you ask anyone in this WORLD yes WORLD most likely if they are lliterate they can tell you who John F. Kennedy is.

////////////////////////////
Cuba 1962 -- Bay of Pigs -- CIA was PISSED! CASTRO was pissed! Sam's Girlfriend. Ms. Monroe and Bobbie. Jack (Ruby) and Lee (O.H. Lee?) . Plausible Denial. Jack (Kennedy) wanted to WAIT until AFTER the election to confront the Soviets about Cuba-- but necessity precluded. Jack wanted to do many things NOT ACCEPTED by the "shadows" who were rapidly moving into place at that time.

TWO DAYS AFTER the assassination - our troop level (advisers) increased in Viet nam. Also -- many "strange" cabinet changes also took effect. many deaths, disappearances and .... the Gulf Of Tonkin Resolution was implemented .. enclosed is the ENTIRE TEXT! Note how INVOLVED THE UNITED NATIONS WAS!!
H/W: http://www.luminet.net/~tgort/tonkin.htm

ANYBODY WANT to challenge that this was JUST AN AMERICAN INVOLVEMENT?!
By the way - for those who forgot! Mr. Lyndon WAS a DEMOCRAT!


Viet Nam was a UN WAR!!! But ALSO an opportunity to have new weapons tested .. Johnson had a lot of committment with this!! But HISTORY has been rewritten by P.C. and very FEW if any KNOW of how the United States had its hands tied ALL ALONG in that war!

OH YES! The election is now over -- and we cannot continue to blame Bush for Viet Nam, Pearl Harbor -- or God Forbid -- The Boston Tea Party!! Sheesh!
READ and see!!

From the gryphon's Lair

///// OH YES!! The "Grassy Knoll" has it chap!! Hands down -- forensics will provide. But JFK's body and brain long held in Smithsonian -- empty grave at Arlington -- mystery no more. Or is it still.? Archives WILL NOT allow FULL documents to be availed. Yet Congress seems to think there WAS more than one gun involved (classic Mafia and CIA "HIT"!). Want the minutes of the session?

One LONE NUT Gunman -- Bolt Rifle that takes MORE TIME to reload than WWI rifles. CONVENIENT Shell Casings laying around ... CONVENIENT Fingerprints found.
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

Kennedy was assassinated by a conspiracy -- but "their" intentions were far from EVIL. No one KNEW of that East German Girl that Jack was "friendly" with just before. EAST GERMAN?! Try to understand what a US Navy Sailor would go through had he been seen with one of these girls!!

IT would have been called ... TREASON!

Perhaps Presidents can get away with more than us average -- John Q's!
No CIGARS passed this time, Guy!!

I DON'T see Bush smoking WET cigars now! (Sorry Monica!!)

Give it a break! Let Kennedy rest in peace (as well as Martin, and Abraham!)

From the Gryphon's Lair

Afraid not.

I don't buy into the "Oswald couldn't have done it." If any one here has been to Dallas and gone to the sixth floor of the book depository, they will see just how easy it would have been to shoot JFK from that spot. conclusion: One Gunman

JFK nearly put us in a nuclear debate with the Russians. conclusion: good riddance he was gone before he could make another such debacle.

Hmm...Are you implying that Lyndon Johnson did a better work regarding Vietnam? There are theories suggesting that Vietnam was one of the reasons that JFK was taken out of the picture-because after the Cuba thing he was determined to follow an appeasement policy with the Soviets, thus quite probably not escalating the Vietnam conflict (which at early 60's was barely a conflict, at least as far as American forces were concerned)

You can't deny that since the second world war the policies of American presidents have often affected countries far beyond its borders. Kennedy never accomplished much in office. But the world would probably have been a much different place if Johnson had never been president. The debacle in Vietnam and the domestic unrest it generated here made America very skittish about using military force for a long time.

For thr truth about the Kennedy assasination, visit the following link. It's a long read, but a mind blowing one. You'll have to read way into it before you get to the part about kennedy.

www.v-j-enterprises.com/cooper.html

///////////
You SURE about that, Guy!?

NOT FIRE that quickly in 30 seconds -- but be PIN POINT ACCURATE! [The ACTUAL time elapsed was approximately 7 seconds - NOT 30] Leave the shell casings around -- palm print on rifle - almost LEAVE RIFLE BEHIND? For a guy with cold and calculated purpose -- he sure as HELL blew the pooch (as they say in the '60s).

I thought the Marines FIRED Oswald (at least the skinny guy they call Oswald) -- the SAME GUY who had a clearance for U2 Information. But a couple of months prior -- a LOT of 'Oswalds' seemed to have popped up - and with varying descriptions.

Try this: Fire a 30 OUGHT SIX [OK equivalent] (with hollow points) DIRECTLY AT AN APPLE -- and wonder why it (the apple) slams backward and to the left! With 70 percent of the mass to the left and behind. Perhaps a new law of physics?! (OK if someone has a metal plate or hard head!)

Oswald being led down the Dallas Police Station basement -- CAR HORN HONKS -- ALL of a sudden a man jumps out and shoots Oswald at point blank range. Sounds to me like the "Manchurian Candidate" all over again. [Responses via POST HYPNOTIC DIRECTION to a sound or signal to respond without question]. OR -- that Jack Ruby asked for a cigarette shortly after being arrested - this from a man who never smoked?? Or that he died of cancer which seemed to have advanced quickly during his incarceration.

Go ON yes ... and on and on .. and I think that this was beat dry. There is no question that QUESTIONS REMAIN -- but regardless of what happened I believe it is time to let the POOR MEN (plural) REST!!!

Oswald was a Patsy -- Ruby was a 'hit' (and had been 'hit') -- Mob involved - CIA involved - Cuba involved -- and Johnson involved (wanted to get Viet Nam rolling!). Note that within 24 hours after Kennedy was assassinated -- Johnson committed more troops to Viet Nam.

The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution WAS A UNITED NATIONS fiasco! Want Proof? READ the Document!
H/W: http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030162/Common/Handouts/War/Tonkin.htm

NOTICE where it says WHERE the VIOLATION WAS! Few, if any of our illustrious Senators ever read it before signing it. That incident NEVER HAPPENED the way it was stated.

Johnson got his war, as well as a lot of the Generals interested in the Military-Industrial Complex. At what cost?!

I suggest we leave this alone as a lot of frustrations about "coverups" will surface -- and we will go at this until the sun goes to bed for good!

Conspiracy? YES! PROOF? Hell no!
Nice IF we had it -- but like the UFO enigma -- too much DISINFORMATION, chaos - and UNRELIABLE FACTS (but plenty of rumors and conjectures!).

The REASON "Jack" was shot -- ?? Only an avid student of History knows.
DETAILED HISTORY!
The WARREN REPORT IS HERE:
http://www.archives.gov/research_room/jfk/...ion_report.html

Perhaps he (Jack) stepped on far too many toes - and ....

I also believe that there was a VERY QUIET Coup-de-tat that came about -- and the "SHADOW GOVERNMENT" assumed a tighter hold.

BUT .... JUST my opinion mind you!!



From the Gryphon's Lair

Has anyone here read the book Case Closed? I hear it gives definitive proof that there was no conspiracy of multiple gun men. The same man who wrote the book published another on the assisination of MLKJr.

////////////
Same man who said UFO's are Optical Illusions?

Sure that you can quickly and accurately fire a bolt action rifle in a matter of a few seconds - yes, that I am sure of. We trained millions of people to do it in WW1. People have recreated Oswald's shot using the same rifle, similar optics, at the same distance, from the height he was shooting at, and at a moving target. It's possible. Is it likely? No. None of this is likely. That's not positive evidence of a conspiracy, though.

And people do strange things when under stress, so Oswald leaving the rifle behind is not unusual.

/////////////////////////////
SHOOT THAT APPLE Guy!!!

For those who want to know.
In June l986 Former President John F. Kennedy appeared to me a Psychic Channel from the Spirit World and in the months and years that followed I have tried to get the Story out but it keeps disappearing without a trace and so I have posted many times throughout this forum the truth behind the Kennedy Murder and many others because I feel this is the only way I am ever going to tell it to anyone.
Not only did JFK but others in the Spirit World appeared including the keeper of the Soul Records otherwise known as the Book of Life and int hat book every deed both good and bad that anyone elver committed is log in the Book of life and one day when we pass over into the Spirit World this is how God totals up our sins.

In my Various posts I have written who and why JFK was killed.