This is not about if you are spiritual or not, or religious or not, this is about how God started and if you think it's true, not about if you follow it. I have two opinions.

#1...A person was so lonely that they talked to themselves, and later on gave the name along the lines of "the one" being that they would talk to "the one" if that person had to talk. Kind of like how some people will talk to the Man in the Moon...or talking to ourselves except giving it a name, or how Tom Hanks talked to the volleyball in the Castaway.

#2...A person was so scared in their life that they couldn't find purpose, no meaning, and they had to find a way to find a reason for their life. So they invented a God to which they could say, well, God says this and God says that and the reason we're here is because God this and God that.

Both reasons leading to...
And that person told their children that if they ever wanted to talk to someone who had all the answers, to talk to "the one" and they would not judge (i mean, something that can't talk back can't judge right). And after many generations, God was just fully accepted and enough variations were added on and eventually a crazy man who wanted to say he was the son of God, Jesus, came along, etc etc.

What was the very first recorded history of God, how do you think God really came about? What do you BELIEVE?

If we look at the first great thinkers ( as Plato or Socrates) they concluded that gods were created to fill the void that science didn't fill back then. Also gods are usually very demanding on humans, because of human drive to exel. Basically man created gods and gods created the basic rules to live a good life for humans ( like don't kill, don't steal...)

the religion that got "annexed" to it wasn't the best plan to continue on a peaceful path. Unless used as a tool and not be used by it.

so number deux

The first men, at least the first men with logical thought, were of course Paganists. Their limited knowledge made them turn into Divine such things as the rain, the thunder, the sun, the sky. Later, when men's minds became somewhat more complicated, more elaborated if you'd prefer, they decided that Gods could as well be specific, with their own name and mythology.

Interestingly, the first Gods of ancient times, e.g. the Egyptian and Greek Gods, were very much like humans in behaviour and flaws, and in many cases in appereance as well..

And YHWH isn't? He walks, he wrestles, he speaks, he has a backside, he is capricious and easy to anger, he isn't strong enough to defeat Satan and sin (at least according to some members of the forum), he had to rest after working 6 days, he knocks up young virgins, how much more human could he be?

If you look at history and understand that everything we know today, is
because of written records. Than you can better understand the bible, by
comparing stories identacle to other writtings from around the world.

The Egyptains and the greeks were not the first to have a God. I believe
the first God to be presented by an established ancient cities, was the King Nimrod.
Nimrod built Babylon and Calah, and is considered to be the one behind the great
tower of Babel, which the bible speaks of.Today his ancient town can be view
and studied,he also presented himself as a mighty God.

But Nimrod himself also speaks of a great flood that killed all people.And he himself say`s he was looking for Noah. (based on written text)

Nanner also claim to be God himself, and he lived in Abrahams time.
He was the Moon God, and was worship by the city of Ur.

Back then almost every great leader wanted to be a God, so did Cleopatra.
She told Egyptains she was the recarnation of Isis, the wife of Osiris.

All other Gods were made out of gold are statues, But the christain God is the
only one to be not of this world.So threw out history is man tring to be God because they knew of God or or his he made up to.

If God was created for human secuirty, then he would have been created at Adam and Eve`s time.

Yahweh, is not the only God spoke of in the bible, but is consider the real God.
God himself declared the devil as an evil God, ruler of the under world. God aslo
say`s he is our God, not the God. As if there were other God`s like him, who ruled
other Galaxies.In the book of Enoch he is said to have been given the powers
to create heaven and Earth. Just like he handed down the say so to Jesus.

So maybe God is the God of the Milky way.

Well, you have managed to distort history, combining ancient myths, the bible (which is also mythology), and shreds of history. I don’t know how to get through to you, but there will many many gods and goddesses in our past. Archaeologists have recovered cult figures from 15000 years ago and further, Judaism didn’t come along until about 3000 years ago, before that the “Israelites” were nothing more than Canaanites! As far as Nimrod, you culled that from the bible and tried to marry it with Ur and Abraham (another myth), then you claim that he was the moon god – there was no moon god among these peoples, instead there was A, the moon goddess! You might want to go look Akkadian/Sumerian religions up (in books, on the internet what ever).



This was common to the Egyptian religion and was nothing new, they had been doing it for over 3000 years!



You evidentially have never heard of Mithra, Krishna, Tyan Ti and many other Gods and Goddesses that were never represented in art or statues…They are as valid as the Xian God and like him can neither be proven or disproved.

If what a couple of what you say is true, that gods were created each with their own personalities, names, flaws, etc....who's to say that, in the first post, my original post, when I said God was created by man...then wouldn't man need an explanation also for all the bad in the world? And the bad that man does and creates? Therefore Satan comes into the picture...So there is good and evil, right and wrong, good and bad, and then man just decided to give these adjectives and descriptions personalities and flaws and names etc just like the Egyptians and Greeks did with their gods? Except this would have begun much further back when man's thinking became complex enough to understand good and bad.

I didn`t say Nimrod was the Moon God, I said Nanner was,
We have found the Temple of Ziggurat, his temple, how can you explain that threw mythology. Nimrod had nothing to do with the city Ur, because this happen
after his death.

Also the Summerian text have a written record of the kings list, which speaks of
them living hundreds of years, so do the Egyptains,Chinese, and later the greeks and Romans. Suggesting 800 to 1,000 years which is very similiar to the age spoken in the bible. That has to speak louder than just Mythology.

(A) are you speaking of Asherah the consider daughter of Sin (Nanner)

Let`s take Satan for one, and let`s touch the subject of ghost.

We, Today can agree that it feels like hell on Earth, So if God gives Earth to the devil and this is his world. That can explain why we see ghost, there already in hell. But the good will have to wait for Jesus to come back, and that`s why the good are alway`s tempted by satan, were as we are in his teritory. Like the good saying goes, the good die young, and I believe that`s because God doesn`t want them to get fully rotten.

As for, did human`s create fake God`s(Yahweh and Devil) so they could have something to look forward to, nobody really knows. But the question I believe to
expalin it is. What are ghost, if real? If we came from monkeys(Apes) what created the human spirit if were made out of dirt.

I'd have to say #2 seems most logical. We always need answers, and we all need theories to back them up. I'm sure, just as we all have our theories, that the person who had forumulated it did so in a fashion that it got people around believing in it. Or just like the episode of South Park with John Smith, who started the incredibly stupid theory of God talking to him through tablets, and starting a new religion for people to follow. Everyone has their own interpretations, which vary from different beliefs in different stems of religion.

Edit: Is the concept of the matrix a religion?

Now that's a very valid point, one I've thought of a couple times...quite frankly it makes me very confused about what I believe...a part of me doesn't believe in ghosts and spirits, because it's not "scientifically possible" while the other part of me does believe it "just cuz" lol.

It boils down to this explanation that works for me...I believe in evolution, but I believe a higher power created the universe and let it develop on its own...aka big bang theory...and then when man got smart enough to understand life and death, they created a god and devil to help them understand why they were here. I don't beleive in heaven and hell...but I do believe in oblivion, but to get there, you have to pass through a doorway...and some people get stuck there, hence ghosts. Life is what matters, not after death. But just as I believe black holes and worm holes are unexplained, I can't explain how people get stuck on the path to oblivion, but I believe for a lot of them, it's their choice to stick around. But I don't think it has anything to do with god or the devil....but why do i believe in a higher being then? The universe had to start SOMEWHERE. Something so great caused elements and particles and molecules to come together, from there, all this "being" does is watch his "baby" (the universe) develop.

My first thought was WTF, and then it occurred to me to go into the Yale database and look up Sumerian mythology and there it was, the purported kings list....As I said, you keep mixing mythology and history as it suits you....The Egyptians, Chinese, Greeks, nor Romans had "historic/mythological" personages that lived immensely long lifespans. Rant on, when you finally come to your senses, be sure to study history, not mythology.

It's a pardox firefemme, because how can something so powerful as to create a universe make itself? A bit mind boggling, but that's why we have to keep finding the answers, instead thinking we already have them by saying "God did it".

I'm curious about your theory on Ghosts. What do you mean by "Oblivion". I've never heard this take on it before.

Beowulf, you seem to know your beliefs exceptionally well...so tell me, what is the difference between God and Yahweh? I'm not too schooled on Yahweh. What religion are you? What's your opinion on how yahweh came about? Because I don't think you've actually given your opinion on the topic, just on other people's opinions.

Yahweh is a different name for God.

Oblivion= complete and total nothingness....the very meaning of death. Our brain is part of our physical body in which, when the body dies, so does the brain (like when a doctor says your brain dead.) I don't see the difference. The brain is part of the physical body, therefore when your body dies, the brain does too. The body is nothing, just a shell that used to walk around. And the brain is dead with it, just a shell of who you used to be. Your thoughts and everything dead with it. Imagine sleeping, except no dreamworld because your brain can not subconsciously draw up a dreamworld when you are dead. That's oblivion.

Ok, that's what I thought, that Yahweh was just a different name for God...so when Beowulf says that God has faults...I always understood God to be, well, perfect in a sense. No faults, for how could the creator of everything, the being that all who encompass and love and should not betray, have faults...that's kind of an oxymoron isn't it?

As for my religion, I am a Deist...YHWH was the sky god/war god of the ancient Canaanites, nothing more. When the Jews were allowed to return to their homeland after the Persian defeated the Babylonians, they (at the behest of Darius the Emperor) founded a temple state and took YHWH as their god. Prior to that, there was no archaeological evidence of an extensive YHWH cult, nor a united kingdom (no Saul, no David, No Solomon, no Judges, no Exodus, No Moses, etc), at this time the bible (1st version) was written. That children is a simplistic explaination of how and where YHWH came from.

]
History is not what you think, because if something interfers with our known
history that`s thought in school. We will leave it out and not teach it.

The blackhole can`t be explain, better yet we hardly know how it works.
So why do you believe it`s true, because scientist say so and they show us
pictures. Not one can explain space, but yet they think they know all the answers to human evolution.We have not found one Skeleton to prove we come from apes,
but that`s what they say, so we believe it.

Do you know they found fossil HUMAN footprints and a DINOSAURS footprint over
the humans prints.Dating to about 12,000 years ago, And yet sceintist still say dinosaurs came first, than humans.
They don`t want to add evidence that will mix up our evolution, and if they
do every body in the world will have to relearn and recalculate ancient history.

Ok, so in your opinion, what society views as "God" is not the same as "Yahweh?" I also see you're located in the bible belt, where I am, do the people you live around, in your neighborhood or city, share your beliefs?...because you act very arrogant about "knowing" everything, and as I've said in other posts, people like you who feel they are so knowledgable shouldn't be condemning but leading, in a good way. Not in an insulting way. If you always respond this way when someone asks a question then I hope you aren't a teacher. You would make kids cry. Do you believe in Adam and Eve? Heaven and Hell? What holy book do you go by? I'm curious because I've never heard of your version of spirituality.

I thought that human/dinosaur trail was proved incorrect to have come from the same time period? There are pictures of stars being pulled into a black hole. There is evidence of active and non-active black holes, just as there are active volcanoes and non-active volcanoes. No one can explain our own Earth lol, scientists have enough work figuring out if all the continents used to be just one. Of course there's questions. With all the theories about everything out there, that's why I asked where you think God or Yahweh or Divine Being or whoever or whatever came from. If you had to come up with a theory, what is it?

Give me a couple of min. to write my theory if interested at all.

lol, of course I'm interested, it's why I started the topic

Blueprints


Like firefemme says, there's a lot of evidence. I recommend you read books by modern physicists like Stephen Hawking. Plus Science is based on what we can see, taste, touch, etc.. Theories will eventually be prove FACT. Just like Einstein's theory of relativity is no longer a Theory. 2 Satellites where sent into space to confirm his theory, and it was proven to be true.

Science may not have all the answers, but we'll get there slowly.

???

What's your question?

FF1202, here is my reply that I promised:



I realize that many people perceive YHWH or Jehovah to be “God”. Because I have always had a love of history, that has carried over into my past and present duties, I have had reason and expanded opportunity to research Syrio-Palestinian archaeology and history. What Xians believe about the historical reliability of their bible can not be supported by current archaeological findings or by ancient records and diplomatic correspondence. I don’t believe that the Creator has fingered any one religion as the “truth” nor for that matter is the root of any organized religion. As with Xianity, all the organized religions have feet of clay, some obvious and some hidden (or at least to the gullible). So in my opinion, God not only is not “Yahweh”, he/she/it is also not Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Osiris, Isis, or any other the myriad other deities that mankind has come up with during his existence as a thinking reasoning creature.



Yes, I live in “Fundieville”, but we have a relatively large secular population and one that is growing larger every day (even here in the bible belt), I’m sure if you really looked around the Ft Worth/Dallas area where you live, you would find the same thing. Xianity has fallen to a new low, now representing the belief system of only 53% of Americans. Of that 53%, only about 20% are truly practicing, go-to-church-every-Sunday Xians. The rest identify as Xian only because they went to Sunday school as kids and may or may not have been baptized. The average Xian has never read the bible from cover to cover and knows less about it’s contents than they know about the current NFL lineup! The problem is that they then bring their lack of knowledge to forums like this and start mindless threads that are so lacking of true knowledge (secular or religious) that they are annoying. People like Independent1, Twpdyp, DrStrangelove, and Jpalz are knowledgeable enough to give me a fair run for my money, others….well some of them (like Saucy) have good minds, if they would learn to quite spouting dogma and really look at their (and other) religions might someday be a pleasure to debate. I know that I often come off as arrogant and unyielding but you have to remember that I spent a quarter of a century in the military (and a lot of time since my retirement working with the military). The major thing taught you in the military is “Destroy the enemy, ask no quarter and give no quarter”, this translates into the debates, my one aim is to totally devastate the other persons arguments and I will admit it, sometimes I do get carried away. I think and I hope my above mentioned adversaries know and understand this and that I don’t mean my “attacks” to be personal.



No, I am a former military type, who still works with the military.



No, Deists do not believe in any religions mythology. As with Xians, there are several types of Deists, some believe that the Creator did his thing and then left us to create our own destiny. Some believe much like Atheists and identify the Creator as the penultimate moment of the “Big Bang”, in other words, the creation force. Some believe that the Creator is sometimes a personal God, that he loves all his creations equally, with no favoritism to man or any other creature. I sit somewhere between the first type and the last type. We are also split on an afterlife, but most of us see it as a moot point, believing that the Creator wants us to live this life to the fullest, doing the best that we can to leave the world a better place for the next generation of all creatures. We do not believe in a Hell and find the concept both repugnant and proof of the falsehood of religions that believe in infinite punishment for finite mistakes (sins to Abe’s 3). Altho we have been around for about 300 years, we have no “holy book”, no dogma, no church building, we do not congregate (we do meet on the internet and occassionaly get together with those in our local area) and find all of the former to be ridiculous trappings probably laughed at by the Creator. I hope that explains things.

Wow, for such a big following like you said, I would have thought I had heard about this. I must say, IF I were to be in a religion, it would be that of Xian or Deist or whatever you like to call it. It doesn't hold strict to one particular following and refer to after death as being more important than life itself and a few of the people in this following even beleive in a creator that started the big bang and had no intervention thus afterwards. I like and respect all of that. Thank you for explaining it in full, I can understand how a man who spent so long in the military would have your mindset, I don't agree with it, but it can be beneficial at times. You're very similar to my uncle who spent 30 years in the air force and still works for the security offices of our nation today. He has knowledge and when need be, he speaks it without being offensive, but rather enlightening, which you were. So for yourself, do you hold strict to the belief of the bible, or is it, like you said, just about gatherings to discuss this path of spirituality without books and heaven and hell and churches?

No, I hold no faith in the words of man, even (or especially) when the authors or adherents claim they are the words of the Creator.....To do so without proof is the sign of the gullible or those who need to believe in something larger than themselves. It is sufficent to know that the Creator was and is, we should need nothing else.

So your saying you will put yourself in a group(cult) that was greated just 300
years ago. Without churches, a holy book, dogma, and just communicate on the
internet. And you say christianity sounds rediculious.

So in your case, you could say you believe in something that creates. You just
don`t know what, Right. So do you believe in alien as extraterrestrial intellegent
beings?
And how do you explain witch craft, just mythology to?

How long has Xianity been around?

No, I don’t belong to a “cult”, there are some of the signs that an organization is a cult:

Cults usually feature a strong leader who is admired with a fervent devotion. People will follow him... and on rare occasions, her... anywhere. I've seen that happen in Xian denominations on more than one occasion -- when the minister would switch churches a large section of the congregation would follow him. For that matter, it can be argued that all Xianity is a cult with Jesus as the strong leader.
Cults try to keep their members isolated from outside influences that might cause doubt to arise. I'm not going to say that every church with a "family life center" is a cult, but when you combine that with restricting social contacts to others from the same denomination or even the same congregation, regulating hair styles and dress codes and condemning morally neutral activities such as dancing, listening to "secular" music or playing certain types of games, that starts to look like mind control
Cults claim exclusive access to God's will. They're the only ones who have it all down right, they're the only ones getting into heaven. You see that in a lot of churches we don't think of as cults.
Cults control and sometimes destroy lives by dictating the personal lives of the members. Churches who oppose divorce often contribute to spousal abuse and even murder by forcing couples who don't belong together to stay together. Churches who oppose birth control have blood on their hands from every infant that starves to death as a result. And churches that oppose blood transfusions and other medical treatment are mass murderers, in my opinion.

Where is it said that you have to have a holy book, dogma or a church? I said SOME of us meet on the internet (300 years ago there was no internet – duh). Yes, I say Xianity and it’s mythology is ridiculous, false, and can’t be proven in the simplest matter.




I believe in the Creator, creating is usually the job of Creators. Oh I know what I believe in, just by observing the universe and nature I can see the love that the Creator has for all creation.



I have no first hand information on that matter. They could exist and probably do exist, but I have seen no convincing evidence on the matter



I believe all organized religions are based on nothing more than mythology. Before you ask, Deism has no holy book, therefore we have no mythology!



I would assume around 2000 years, give or take a century or so (depends on which scholar you subscribe to).

As far as my question, where did god begin, is it like....what came first, the egg or the chicken? Did god come first or did religion or religious figures? The book, something to indicate that there was a higher being...did that come before God or did God come first?

from what i read jesus was born in 9 bc some say 10 bc

But Jesus isn't "God"....The old testament is older than Jesus adn it's based on God...that's who my question refers to.

jesus is gods son from what i know

Then he must have a lot of brothers. Mithra is the son of god, as is Krishna, Apollo, Augustus Caesar, Herakles, Osiris, Romulus, Yang Ti and many many others. There is however, only one God - the Creator!

from what i can gather god has always been and always will be y'know the whole alfa-omega thing, residing in space creating stuff and stopping planets crashing....either that or he was inverted by coke-a-cola ...or was that santa claws i forget,.

Exactly, I don't want to know when any of his chitlins came around...did the knowledge or idea of a creator, God, come before any written proof....what came first, the chicken or the egg...one of lifes many unanswered questions, however it's fun to debate

I saw this thread on the basis of who was Lilith...the first wife of Adam...I grabbed these quotes from that topic because I feel it relates to where did God begin. My theory that God was created by man to keep himself from being lonely or because was afraid he had no reason in life, I feel the arguement about Lilith just helps increase my belief in those theories. I don't think there was an Adam and Eve and you can see why...hardly anyone knows who Lilith is, and what she is thought to be is a vampire after spiting Adam. The bible was written by orders of King James I'm sure (or in the very least a party of kings and the church who didn't want to lose the faith of their people when one crazy man, Jesus, starting turning people away from the revered way) and that God was created by man...when you look at the stories surrounding Lilith, of course she was omitted from the Adam and Eve story, it's ludacris. It just makes the Bible seem more phony, hence God as phony. What do you think?

First, if you believe in the God of the Bible, you will know
that He does't begin. He is the Alpha and the Omega.
He stands outside of the box we are in.
Time, Space etc...

For people who follow the bible, that's exactly right, God doesn't "begin"...but my question also refers to when people figured He "was and is", when did people realize there was a God if he exists...it's sort of like two parts And not everyone follows the bible...but people's opinion on when god originated in human thought, like who was the first person to think "gee, there's a god" etc...like Norman, how do you think the first thoughts of God came around in human thought?

In my humble opinion God never began and never ends it just is...and always will be...in my heart
Take time to look into things, including yourself...HAVE FUN

I agree... good post!

Since there are archaeological findings of altars, temples, and idols from towns and cities that are over 12000 years old and since writing has only been around since 4100 BCE, the foregone conclusion is that the idea of God has been around a lot longer than any written material on him (there is no proof of any God, just evidence and only a small amount of that).



In this we agree, just not which God!

I think ya'll misunderstood half the question...when did MANKIND first realize or think there was a god...if there was a first man and woman, were they born just knowing there was a god? Not Adam and Eve lol...but mankind in general, the idea that god is or the knowledge that god exists had to be planted into man's brain, my question is how was it planted? Does that make more sense? I feel like I can't explain this too well.

Paleoanthropologists have shown evidence of practices and articles that seem to be tied to religious worship (the so-called Venus figures) dating from about 30000-20000 years ago. There have even been Neanderthal burials that show signs of a belief in an afterlife (crude but still signs) and have found what could have been an altar erected to ????Cave Bears????. So that is really hard to answer, guess it partly depends on what you mean by Mankind.....

Ok, for all purposes of this discussion, whether you believe in evolution or creationism....mankind is going to be the first people who were able to communicate, to think...to just have a thought process that would let them believe there was a "God." So, to the very beginnign of humankind, when we were smart enough to think "gee, is there god"

[/quote]
I think ya'll misunderstood half the question...when did MANKIND first realize or think there was a god...if there was a first man and woman, were they born just knowing there was a god? Not Adam and Eve lol...but mankind in general, the idea that god is or the knowledge that god exists had to be planted into man's brain, my question is how was it planted? Does that make more sense? I feel like I can't explain this too well.
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I believe when man was created, they knew of God. Because threw out the bible, God is said to have talk to a certain amount of people,(Adam,Eve,Cain,Moses,Noah,etc.)Then the word got around just like today. It seems as if
he use to come down to Earth, and it is also written that he sent his angels to
Earth as well. But then stopped after Jesus died, we today have to understand
why and for how long?

So maybe there was no reason to make him up, he was just there and it was normal for them. They were born to it, and grew up knowing it.
If you lived just about 100 years ago, you have no plumming for a toilet. And no
toilet paper, but that was fine because they didn`t know any different. And you were born to learn that way. If we didn`t have a written record of it, would people
believe so 100 years from now. More than likely it would just be word for word,
some what of how God could have gotten started. But know we look back and
find it difficult to believe.