I just realized something very interesting. Every major religion in the world has gone through a time when they were persecuted... by another religion.

Satanists persecuted by Christians
Islam persecuted by Christians(Crusades)
Christians persecuted by Romans(Martyrdom in the arena's)
Jews persecuted by Nazi's(The Holocaust)
Buddhists persecuted by Muslims(Muslim invasion of afghanistan, pakistan and india)
Wicca persecuted by Christians(Salem witch trials)

Theres been more persecution than this throughout history but im just listing what I found after a few quick searches. Here's the most interesting thing, the religions that did NOT persecute any other religions are:

Buddhists
Jews
Wicca

So if your going to choose a religion to practice these are the ones that I would recommend. I'm not saying all other religions are evil, just that these 3 are the ones that have not shown any blind prejudice agianst other religions.

you forgot one: Mormons tormenting Christians (through door knocking)



But your right, i would choose buddhism if i was going to go for a religion. Those Shaolin Monks are really cool

All religion has persecuted (or at least tried to) against atheists, least of which have been Jews and Wiccans(sp?).
As far as i know, all religion is equally guilty, one way or another...counting atheists...there is no "innocent" religion....there never was, there never will be.

Janiel is right all have at one point or an other persecuted someone.
the buddhist did persecute the christians in japan in the last shogun era...lets not forget the tension they put on Tibetan monks ( Free tibet!)
(don't want to turn this in to a Israel vs Palestine thread so i won't say anything)
***
you know what's the funniest thing?
There all the same...they all have the same basic structure!
AHAH!
+++

On top of these, racism, sexism, 'humanism (alien fear)' etc. Not just limited to religion. We are a race not famous for its tolerence to beings of different nature. Greed and power.

Oh Zaus, bless him lol
Claiming that Christians have been persecuted, oh poor little lambs.
Sorry thats how thay advertise themselves isnt it??? Lambs of the fold and the elders, the sheep.
Well they must be sheep, if they feel persecuted all the time lol
Everyone in the World is persecuted, but they just get a grip and get on with life.

People use religion to control large masses of people. It's all about power.

I hope that his thread doesn't offend anyone. I myself am a New Age Christian, (Not sure how that works but oh well. ) and I don't discriminate against anyone. A person is a person, I don't think it really matters what religion they follow. It's the person that matters.

Luke 6:28-30 "Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also."

If more Christians(or anyone with morals) listened closer to this passage the world would be a better place. But it seems most people choose a faith simply to have somewhere to go on a sunday morning.

I don't think there were Wiccans at the Salem witch trials. Unless they went back in time. I don't think that the people that were killed weren't even Witches. They were just folks in the wrong place at the wrong time.
A lot of Pagans were killed by christians and a lot of christians were killed by Pagans.
Now the Jews are currently killing a lot of Palestine’s. But I guess to American eyes Palestine’s doesn’t count. There I said it sue me.
Fundi muslims are killing everybody.
Science was persecuted by christians (Galileo)
Most of the time it is not about religion. It is about power, money, and greed.
It goes round and round and round: stop I want to get off.

well actually it's a question of tradition, where parents are of X religion chances are you are going to be of X religion.
***
As Heart said it's a form of premitive power. Like all the other autorities.
+++
Dark is right, exemple the Vatican

I'd have to say I disagree to this point. Maybe in the past it was about that. The Church was pretty much the ruler in the middle ages but that isn't so now (at least, I didn't think it was).


I do, after a bit of thought, agree with this. The bible doesn't preach hate to others but those in high positions have been doing it so long, Christianity has now been given that reputation. There is a...Pastor? (not sure if that's the right name) here in NZ called Tamaki and right now there is a hot debate about whether to legalise gay marriage. He and many members of the church marched to parliament as they strongly disagreed. The bible doesn't say this is right, the religion doens't say it's right, but it still happens.

But, this isn't just about Christianity. I'd like to think that many religions now are there because there are people who believe they preach good things and offer hope. I've always thought it's comforting to think there's something out there looking out for us. I don't personally believe in a particular religion, I couldn't bring myself to because what if it's not true? I'd be lying to myself and that's not right.

Religion is there to comfort us when we need it. It's a brilliant concept but a few seem to spoil it....

Deadly Nightshade - you don't sound too passionate about Christianity but just because there are a few bad people, doesn't mean all of them are bad.

Many seem to get pigeonholed on their religion, and I think that's sad. What happened to judging people by what they are on the inside not what they are on the outside?



I've ranted enough, sorry.

Potholer

Zaus ... U left out one biggie, ALL Religions persecuted by Catholics during the entire period of the Grand Inquisition.
This however is why God despises religions as stated in the Bible.

dazdillinjah, I don't understand. Why does God despise religions?

Thanks



Potholer

The Bible was written to promote peace, but over the centuries has been used over and over as a reason to go to war. The clergy would say something like "We must convert the heathens." They would get the public to agree with them and then they would send troops into neighboring countries and slaughter and pillage the inhabitants(Who ironically were living in peace). Afterward they would build a castle or fortification of some type and claim the area they "converted" as part of their nation. Thats why God hates religion.

Hmmmm Whiskers you say you are a new age Christian , does that mean born again christian???

I think new age Christians realize that the old form of Christianity is corrupt and take a stand closer to Buddism or Hinduism. Out of all the new age Christians I have met none of them have tried to convert me, they are a hell of alot more peaceful than non-new age christians thats for sure.

That depends on what you mean by "born again".

I follow the teachings of Christ, though I doubt that the only way to be "saved" is through him. I've often wondered what people did who lived before Jesus' time. There are other things that I believe in that "contradict" Christianity, so I had to drop the things that made no sense. Broken down very simply my religion is very simple: LOVE.

Other things are:

I believe in reincarnation.

I believe in the spirit world.

I have nothing against gay marrige.

I have nothing against any other religions, and I treat everyone equally -- religion has no part in how I should treat other people.

There are many others, but I don't have the time to write them all down.

I was always so fearful when I was a Christian. Then I got to reading some new age books and a sense of peace and truism came over me. That's how I became who I am today.

In my faith, live and let live are key.

And the spirtual truth: In essence we are all the same, and so are our faiths!
-----------
Kitty kat, I myself am like you, I've grown up in a Christen household, I hated the second class place women take in Christianity, so now I'm a witch, not a wiccan, just a spiritually liberated teen, whose obsessed with philosophy.-thoughsome call me wiccan, and it's easier to agre with them then they go on and on...-
-----------------------------
Blessed be.

Hi Potholer sorry Its been awhile ... anyway for now the best I can answer that is with the Bible ... referring to Amos 5:21 -5:27
"I hate I despise your religious feasts, I cannot stand your assemblies. Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them. Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them. Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps. But let Justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never failing stream! Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert O house of Israel? You have lifted up the shrine of your king, the pedestal of your idols, the star of your god - which you made for yourselves. Therefore I will send you into exile beyond Damascus, says the Lord, whose name is God Almighty"

When I did Theology this was meant to indicate how mankind slipped away from their true relationship with God due to religious activity & ritual that basically contained man made requirements of Gods word ahead of (& blinding us) from Gods actual word (the Bible) ... all one needs IS to follow the Bible (If you believe of course) NOT a particular religion

Hope that made sense *L* - Cheers

Thanyou Whiskers for answering my question.

Blessed Be.
Nightshade.
xxx

Thanks dazdillinjah. I think I understand now and that does make sense, in a way. Would you mind if I asked another question? You don't have to answer, I admire people strong in their faith and I don't like to question them, but I'm curious. If men wrote the Bible, how is it the word of God?
And I'd think that rituals would just be man proving their love of God. Giving up things that are important to them, if you see where I'm coming from.

But, if you prefer not to answer, I'm fine with that, I don't want to start a religious debate, especially when this is meant to be discussing the pros and cons of different religions....

Thanks again



Potholer

Agreed.


Nothing about christianity is corrupt. And if these "ne age christians" do take a stand closer to bhuddism or hinduism, then they need to call themselves bhuddists or hinuds.


You don't follow the teachings of Christ. The teahcing of Christ is that He is the only way to heaven. What did people do before Christ? Same thing they do after him. People back then believed that Jesus will save them and will die on the cross and will be ressurected three days later.


Then please stop calling yourself christian. And if you do continue to call yourself christian, be sure to add the "new age" part infront of it.


you should give it a name... like whiskerism.

Whoa! Um... touche, there. I'm sorry if I offended you.

First explain to me the crusades and second christianity is already broken into 20 some denominations and new age is one of them.



If Jesus is the only way to heaven then everyone who died before he was born went to hell. If so God is one cruel bastard.

Nothing about christianity is corrupt. - Dr StrangeLove


i disagree, thats what everyone thinks, you know, it being pure and such but do research....you'll find some of the most shockingly corrupt stuff you've ever seen, its very scary.

The crusades were commanded by the pope (an authoratative figure in catholocism).


Where in the Bible does it say time has any effect on the salvation of Christ? Those born before Christ would simply believe that Jesus will die on the cross to pay for their sins. Same concept but with different tenses.
There is, however, another view that says people before christ would do sacrificial stuff to gain salvation. I don't know much about it. Don't worry the God in the Bible will take care of His people. After all nowhere in the Bible does it say He made us just to poke us with a giant... holy stick.


Actually I think the general concensus of non-christians is that christianity is ignorant/cruel/horrible/etc. Run a poll to find out for yourself. And actually I can't think of one thing that the Bible commands christians to do that is evil or bad even by the worlds standard of good and evil. Please, anybody, private mesage me anything that christians are commanded to do that the world or God or whatever would consider it evil.

Doc, we have discussed this before, when you say Catholic, you are speaking of 98% of the Xians of that period. Now guess who God chose to pass his orders to those people – The Pope, that’s who, so the Xians of that period were following the orders of God as passed by the Pope! You see, Jesus chose Peter to build his church and Peter did, the Church of Rome, the Catholic Church as it came to be known. When Luther rebelled against that Church, he led all the Protestants (past, present, and future) in direct rebellion against God and his Son Jesus. What happened to the last group to rebel against God, Satan and his bunch…Well now what is going to happen to all those Protestants that have rebelled against Christ’s Church, the Church of Rome? That’s right, they are going to roast their butts in Hell with all the sinners and probably in the deepest parts of Hell (even deeper than Hitler and Stalin) because there in no worse sin that rebellion against God!



First you tell us, that God is going to dig up the millions upon millions of people born before Jesus and give them a choice of accepting him or not – what kinda idiot would tell God to his face, “Naw, I don’t believe that the guy you say is your son and part of the Trinity is really your son, so I can’t accept him.” Come on, that does not make sense even in a convulted Xian sort of way. Then you say that as long as they (the ones before Christ) were sacrificing to him, they were OK. YHWH was known to only a very small nation and it’s neighbors (maybe), probably no more than 300,000 people. How can the millions of others, who had know way of knowing him, make sacrifices to him? Your God is an evil SOB, to send them to hell for not knowing him and not giving them a way to know him!



We don’t say that Xianity is necessarily evil, just that Xians are in general easily led by those that they see as “God’s” leaders, even when what they are led to do is of the vilest evil. The exclusiveness of Xianity sets the rest of humanity apart from the Xians, which lets them view non-Xians as less than human, making it easy to perpetrate evil against them!

How would people who died before christ was born know that christ would die on the cross? That makes no sense! Unless the New Testament was written before Christ was born but that cant be true because the New Testament was written by Christ's disciples.

Hi Potholer !!!! sorry Ive been very busy & havent had much free time to give an authoritive answer immediately Anyway Ive tried digging up my personal notes & information & (ahem) still yet to find my discussion notes & information re: this ... Id really like to though because I KNOW we covered this question. Sheesh sometimes the most simplest questions are the hardest to answer *L*

Anyway please appreciate Id like to try (but WILL get back when I find that information) Well in short the books deemed acceptable for the Bible were considered 'God inspired' & a sense of faith may be necessary to accept this. Obviously they were 'penned' by mere humans. In any case ... the Bible covered broad & profound requirements, teachings etc etc these were complex anyway however where Amos comes in there is an acknowledgement of the taking off of what could be termed extra interpretation & where it was leading was division. Due to literally hundreds (at the least) of differing interpretations that come down to one being believed over the next & vice versa ... hence the birth of so many different 'religious' denominations which were so zealous that basically wars, crusades, inquisitions & the like occurred. Jesus own ministry advocated "Love Thy Neighbour" in an attempt to raise above this but obviously no one in authority really listened did they ???

Hi again to Beowulf & respects !!! stop beating us Christians up *LOL* ok we acknowledge (may I call it) the Paul-ian effect on Christianity but I prefer to believe Catholicism was MORESO resultant from the great Roman compromise under Constantine. I just cannot as a Christian accept any enduring resemblance to Catholics IMHO ....

Ooops first & foremost must clear up .... OK not talking about Paul here but Peter !!! hey forgive me Ive been very busy & somehow mixed that bit up ... However my next statement regarding Constantine I stand by with context to my point sorry about that Beowulf !!! Anyway I await your response with open mind ... Peace

Hey dazdillinjah

Thanks for answering my question, that does make sense, I appreciate it.

The Koran is also a religious book, right? Do you know whether they have simliar interpretation confusion?

And I notice you're a Kiwi heh.



Potholer

Hi again Potholer very pleased to meet another Kiwi here !!!! Excellent

In reply about the Koran (I havent read it word for word) but have discussed & done a bit of research about this. I believe the Koran at least contains the Torah (1st several books of the OT) in it & yes at a point deviates based upon interpretation. If you could consider the 'Bible' as a 'Tree of knowledge' then the Koran is one of the first 'branches' that grows off it. Looking at this problem that way also helps one understand that there are MANY branches off the Tree all representing different 'religious' denominations.

Respects Potholer never stop asking questions whether the answers are there or not we are always getting closer to the solutions by having people who are open minded & not afraid to ask why ... Blessings & Peace - Daz

I'm never sure whether my questions are backing someone into a corner, awkward ones that can't be answered...a bit like the questions Micheal Moore asked Charleton Heston in Bowling for Columbine.

With your tree analogy, are you saying that you believe modern religions stem from Christianity, or at least the Bible?

I think we've highjacked this thread

It's hard to find a civil conversation about religion...

Kismit is also a Kiwi but what are the chances that we're all spread across the country?

Thanks



Potholer

Hahaha well we are passionate LOL ... OMG I didnt realise Kismit was a NZer too !!!! (Hey there Kismit ... )

YES I believe the analogy is a good way to 'picture' it & that ALL religions branch off from the Bible ... the root of the Bible being the Torah !!!!

Christianity came off the 'branch' Judaism following the concept of Gentiles which emerged from the Paul-ian influence

Im waiting for more threads here in particular regarding my statement that Catholicism was moreso resultant from the Roman compromise under Constantine.

I respect your passion Potholer - God Bless !!!!

The catholic is a mixture between the Roman polytheistic beliefs and the Christian beliefs of Jesus being the only way to heaven. It says in the Bible to not pray to anyone but God, but the Romans instituted the worship of the saints. It was a compromise by both sides to live in peace(Probly the only time it actually worked).

I'm not sure if I got all that but thanks, it's interesting heh. I do believe that almost all religions are linked to each other. Did you know there are literally hundreds of religions that all mention a Great Flood?

The one other NZer here is Catrat



Potholer

My FAV great flood story is the Sumerian ... Gilgamesh Epic & that pre dates ANY religious great flood story The Gilgamesh epic even has some archaeological backing by Dr Bob Ballard !!!! & Gilgamesh's epic is a purely cultural account !!!!