Genesis 18: 23-33 is a passage in the bible when we see Abraham asking the Lord if He will wipe out the righteous with the wicked. At the end of this passage the Lord says he will not wipe out the two cities if he finds ten or more righteous people there.

If it was all about homosexuality then according to the above passage, all but ten people must have been gay in the two cities of Sodom and Gomorra.

Jesus Freak, are you then saying that 99% of all cities around the world have less then 10 righteous people in them?

It does not appear that the Bible says if angels are male of female. They may look like males in the story of Sodom and Gomorra, but no one saw them naked so …

http://www.discoverymagazine.com/digger/d94dd/d9402dd.html
http://www.carm.org/questions/sex_angels.htm

For now

Read Enoch (you know, the original Bible), the angels that took on human form were ALL male. In their natural state their are NEITHER sex because they do not reproduce. It was only in human form that they could either have sex or reproduce.

Technically, they probably CAN take on either male or fem,ale form (any angel can appear human) but they seem to always choose the male form.

No god would destroy any of our cities. We'll be the sole reason, no matter how much religous bunk you whitewash over it.

It is my understanding that Enoch was written MUCH later than many of the texts in the 'accepted' Bible, and is generally considered something of a hoax.

It is OLDER than our Bible. Jude takes a whole quoet out of it and even says it's from the Book of Enoch. Peter also quoted it, and I'm pretty sure even Jesus did. So try and disprove that. Anyway, I made a post about this, you wanna read all the reasons why it definantly IS VALID, go read my post.

I'm curious as to the quotes you mentioned. Do you have where Enoch is quoted in the New Testament? All (for lack of a better tern) scientific sources I've ever seen on the book of Enoch have classified it as fraud. If there were evidence like you mentioned, dating farther back, that would be interesting.

And just as an aside, I'm not trying to disprove or defend either text. I'm not a Christian, just curious from an Ancient History perspective.

Actually I do I just put them on my other post and will GLADLY add them here for you also.

Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 1:8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. (angels are referred to as stars in Enoch, Revelation, and pretty much throughout the ENTIRE BIBLE. Like the fallen marning star which was called lucifer)

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

A fraud it is not.

I confess...I didn't read anything in this thread past the quote below:




The reason that Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed was because a volcanoe erupted and it just so happened that the volcanoe was under a huge salt dome.

Not Biblical....just logical....

Biblically however, God didn't destroy them because they were homosexuals but because they were wicked. Wickedness and evil are not sexual preferences.
The people of these communities would rape and kill you for the fun of it....that is all they thought about. And consider that S and G were not your average city in which Democracy rules the day....more like Fallujah I would think where the most vile and evil acts were everyday common place occurances.

But why were they destroyed? Because they didn't see the signs of destruction coming....before the destruction S and G was a paradise place...their whole mindset was evil and wicked and homosexuality was just the sexual preference.

...and they didn't see the signs of their demise all around them because they were not even looking toward God or anything good...rather their whole lifestyle was murderous and just plain evil.

May I say that a sexual act is not evil.....cutting off your babies arms is evil...

A volcanic eruption is hardly the hand of god. It's like saying Pompii was destroyed by the gods for some odd reason... Or god got pissed off with the area surrounding Mt. Saint Helens and made her erupt...

True that the sexual activity isn't evil... Sex is pleasurable, and if done responcibly, how is that bad? The raping(the not responcibly) and killing without a cause... yeah... that's bad. But hey... they built near a volcano... so even if they were the holiest people on earth... they still would have been doomed.

Sex has existed since Adam and Eve, God created sex, but it's been perverted. Like everything, it can be both good and bad.

Technically, I don't have anything against homosexuality, there are some very real cases where people truely do feel they should be the other sex, and sometimes there are physical reasons for it, instead of it just being done to be trendy or for non-commital sex, but I can't say whether it's something that's accepted by God, although, maybe it just depends on the circumstances.

Totally agree! It is not a choice I would make, it is one I would discourage others from making however, just because I would do that doesn't mean I don't like or I hate homosexuals.

Someone asked how we know God doesn't hate - well God can't hate - he just really doesn't like it when we disobey him. It's sin and he can't look at sin.

For instance let's say you have a child. You bring home a bag of cookies and put them in the cookie jar. The child knows that they are there. You tell your child they may have one after dinner. You go about your business doing laundry and house hold chores. You hear a loud crash and dash into the kitchen to find that your child has tried to "steal" a cookie. Now you are bad because 1) they disobeyed you and 2) created a messs etc. are you going to hate that child and put them outside and forget about them? No - you love this child! You don't like what they did but that doesn't change your love for them. The same is with God - we are the children - we get our hands caught in the cookie jar......

I have to agree with you - there is a psychological assessment thing.....it's called the DSM. There are medical codes on there for gender identity crisis - where some people are truly confused and think they are the opposite gender....many psychologists at one time treated all homosexuality as such.....I don't think someone's sexual preference or any other activities are for us to judge. We can't - we aren't God - judge ye not least ye be judged......he who is without sin cast the first stone......spread the love that Jesus taught!

Yes, too many people judge, everyone wants to see someone else in hell (for those who believe in it), which is wrong in itself, and tell people from their OWN opinions what you should and should not do. We aren't here to judge.