Can someone please explain to me how the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the book of Genesis has anything to do with homosexuality? I really don't think it does, to me, when Lot gave up his two daughters to the mob instead of the two Angels; it shows that one must give up his family before he gives up the Lord. Kind of like the Story of Abraham and Isaac on Mount Sinai, when god asks Abraham to murder his son. When the mob asks for the two Angels to come outside so they can rape them; this may or may not have something to do with homosexuality. Do angels have a sex? If so, how do we know the two Angels were not female? If they were female, then it would be a story about the evils of rape, and not a story about homosexuality being wrong.

What am I missing?

well yeah the whole story of sodom and gomorrah is a complicated one. Technically (well usually) angels are male. Also the way the mob ask for the angels is an other form for the bible to represent homosexuality, as they "compliment" them in a "odd" way. But what's more puzzling is what happens to Lot and he's daughters when they hide in the mountains.

I don't think it says homosexuality is wrong i think it says promiscuity is wrong, but that's just me. I'm no theologist.

Actually Jesus indicates that Angels are sexless!

God sent Michael to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah(2 cities?) because of all the homo's and sexual acts going on there. God doesn't like homo's or people who have sex out of wedlock. Besides the characters in the Bible dont always do whats right, especially Lot's daughters getting him drunk and... you know the rest of the story.

There is so much about that story that conflicts with modern ideas of morality. One piece has been lifted to serve as a 'lesson'. If you take what happens in this story to be represent the "right" course of actions, then the idea of men "knowing" each other sexually is sinful. But, a better alternative is a father offering up his virgin daughters to be gang raped, or having these same daughters (when there are no men around) getting their father drunk so they can have a child.

This story is indeed a strange one. The people of the city see Lot with two men (Angels) and they come to the door and ask Lot to let them out so they may "know them" which is commonly thought to be so they may have sex with them. Lot instead offers his virgin daughters to please The Lord and protect The Angels. It was common back in these times also that one treated a guest like royalty so this too falls into place at that time period strange as it may sound. Lot also knew that The Angels had come to warn Lot to get his family out because The Lord was about to destroy the two cities. This wasn't just due to homosexual relations which ran rampant in cities but all kinds of sins. God destroyed the cities because they were full of sin not just same sex relations which is common misconception. Once they leave (Lot and his family) the cities are destroyed Lot's wife disobeys God's order and looks back and turns to a Pillar of salt! This leaves Lot and his two daughters alone in the hills. The daughters believe they are the last humans on earth and that God had destroyed all humanl ife but them. The feel God would want humans to be reborn anew so they feel it is up to them to bring forth man again so man gave live a proper life. The daughters knowing their Father a decent GOOD man conspire to get him drunk and thus weaken his will. They do so and have sex with him in order to reproduce. Although an inmoral act they believe they are doing so to repopulate the earth and so this sin would be ok little did they know only the two sinful cities had been destroyed

What is so complicated about this story guys?

Cities full of Sin=Destroyed, Obliterated, and Annihilated.

And that is all you need to know...

Now if homosexuality was going on in those cities and if it is a sin or not is for you to decide. You will eventually find out one day if you picked the right path and answer during the time of the Great Judgement.

Yeah, this is just more proof that the bible has warped our society

A book that is basically about living a GOOD life WARPED! Now that is a reply I didnt expect lol

Yes well, the bible is kind of anti gay, which i dont agree with

Well, in Genesis, it does say that God made woman for and out of man.... not man for and out of man. I do believe God dislikes homosexuality, but it makes me mad when people say "God hates gays" because God could never hate any of His children. You could be the worst sinner in the world, and you could curse God's name every day of your life, but that would never change how much God loves you.

i think that's all i have to say about that... my brain just stopped

Where in the Bible does it say:
1) Are angels male, female or sexless?
2) Sodom and Gomorrah are full of sexual deviant acts?



Side topic but how do you know god does not hate? I mean he is the creator of all; thus, he created hate, evil, sin as well all things good.

Secondly, if you were to lock your child in a small room and turn up the heat to120 degrees, would this not be looked at as hate?

God did not create evil... Lucifer did. And, of course humans could hate... but God surely could not hate any of us. He could be disappointed in us for making the wrong decisions... but not hate us.

Who created Lucifer?

ok wait, lemme revise that.... angels can't create... only God can. but how do you create emotion, or a state of being? so yeah, God created something that became evil

Yeah, they were gay. I mean they were't petty attitude gay,
I mean they were hardcore; thats why God burned them to hell.

heres a site that says god hates gays. although it uses "fag". they say they arent homophobic, but they just wish to spread the word..... yeah sure w/e.
*sigh* here you are

For those of you who want to argue about gays,
and the reason God does't like them, let me just stop
you right there. Lets not make any arguments about this.
They reason God is displeased by homosexuality is because
He meant men for women, and women for men. Not homo.
We should find partners of the opposite sex because thats
they way we multiply in case you did't know. God commanded
humans to reproduce, and you can't do that my natural means
if you're gay.

God. Lucifer was an angel who wanted to be free to do what he wished. Got said no, so Lucifer got pissed, and God banished him to hell. Lucifer got more pissed off at god, and became the ruler of hell. Now Lucifer does every thing in his power to piss off god.


I totally agree with what Lucifer did.

Anyway................



Its ignorant bastards like the ones who made that site that make me hate the world

he doesn't just want to piss off God. He hates humans with a passion. we're another reason why he hates God too. he doesnt understand why God loves us when the majority of us don't believe in Him, and out of those who believe in Him, the majority dont even live up to what God expects. He doesnt understand why God gave us free will, and why God gave us bodies to house our souls. he dispises us for taking what he thinks that angels deserve. so now he does everything he can to corrupt us, and get us to stray from God. he's tricky too. you hafta watch out for him. ever since i was saved i started noticing how much influence he has on this world. it's terrifying. anyway... that was way off topic.. but yeah, God loves gays, he just dislikes their lifestyle choice

Interesting stuff, it opens the door for some good discussion, but again, can any help me out with these two questions?

Where in the Bible does it say:
1) Angels are male, female or sexless?
2) Sodom and Gomorrah are full of sexual deviant acts - homosexuality?

Or do people just clam to know these answers without having any real biblical truth?

^For 2) When the angels are at Lots place, the men in the village go to his house and yell"Bring out the visitors, so that we may have sex with them"

I thought we were all created equal. Except when we were created and whan people were most religious. then we were all created equal except for homosexuals and women and animals and plants and people of coloured races. do you have a feeling this is hypocritical?

the "god hates fags" link...that thing got me mad (mad is an understatement) in so many levels, i'm a pacifist so for something to make me mad would be something huge. First they use god to promote hate, then they blame homosexuals for the "undoing" of society, god is a character of love that's it's main message: Love, Peace and Unity...
***

People often misuse the bible to oppress others, the best way ( to understand religion, according to me) is to read the bible not as a truth, but as a roman. Read it then make your own ideas, don't take what someone else say it's the truth without questioning first.

1- well angels are just named, but if i remember correctly the one in sodom had the appearance of men. (I think they can shift from "form")

2- I'd say promiscuity.

Aurora, Goddess of the Dawn did.

The whole conversation here just promotes my feelings of hatred towards religions. People are so F%¤#ing dumb, ignorant, and the only ones who are right (at least that's what they think).

I'm so god damn tired of those hypocritical dumbasses going in circles with their thinking. To me God is dead and didn't bring anything good here in the first place!

^God forn you, but dont just walk into a place and start bashing there beliefs. Thatmakes you just as bad as the idiots that made the site DD posted.

God created gay!
there is nothing wrong with being gay. Yes.
I am gay myself. Although, I am no familiar
with homosexual agendas.

People make fun of me and call me queer.
But I am not "man-looker". I just happy.
That is what gay means Yes. Coyote mad
when people make fun of his gayness.

God created something he knew would be evil... so God created evil.



I know. I was just answering Jesus Freak with my question.

Anyway, its funny how in the bible, there are no examples of Lucifers hate and destruction of humanity... but there are plenty that show god murdering people.

Is it me or is Isaac channeling Moe?

sigmund, if i may quote genisis. "..and it was good." haha

and stellar... read Job... it's all about that

About what bible says, why don't you go and read this letter. It shows what it means to take things litterally.

Read The Letter From Here

Jesus freak... I have read a lot of your posts but I think you may have a few things mussed up a bit...by that I mean a few things. In another forum you said that you think everyone should make up their own mind in what they believe. Well the truth is that everyone does make up their mind whether you like it or not...the real test is whether they make the right decision. To let the holy spirit work faith in me or not. I want to rephraze that a bit...There is no such thing as a choice for GOD. "by grace we may enter the kingdom of heaven" we get grace from faith and faith is a gift from GOD. Let me set up a little scenario for you. I walk up to you and give you the keys to a brand new BMW Z8...that would be called a gift (a big gift, but a gift nontheless) Now the same scenario except for that I ask you to pay me 5 cents for the car-first, the car is no longer a gift
-second, what if you don't have 5 cents?
The point of this story is to illustrate that faith is a gift and if you had to do something to get it it would not longer be a gift. The other point is that humans are comparable to a bum on the street to GOD. Filthy and sinful and we have not a penny to our name. Jesus is the guy who gives pays for that car and gives it to us for free. So I guess the song by ACDC should be rewriten "highway to heaven" because Jesus has payed for our BMW to heaven.

Well, let me voice my own opinions on the subject...
I am not fully convinced homosexuality even exists within the human race. It's nothing but sodomy.

As for the arguments stating that people are born gay. I just can't understand that. From a religious point of view, the Bible clearly says that homosecuality is a sin and God wouldn't create someone gay then turn around and say homosexuality is wrong.

From a non-religious view, if humans were a random creation and were able to be born gay then why is it that a man cannot reproduce sexually with another man?

Just my thoughts...

Population control

How can one even know what kind of sin was going on in Sodom and Gomorrah? If you look up whats considered a sin in the old testament, it could have just been a bunch of people who wore linen and cotton together, or a husband who slept in the same bed as his menstruating wife. The old testament is rife with bizarre edicts that have no meaning in todays society. Can we as modern folk even know what people back then thought of sin? and remember no sin was worse or better in the eyes of god so if you did mix fabric or sleep with your wife (and I do mean sleep it doesn't even mention nook) then off to hell with you. As for the Angels wanting to "know" them, I would tend to think angels were sexless, as it says in the bible and so how could they "know" them with out the respective parts to "know" them with??? its all a matter of interpretation and whether you choose to take the bible at face value. It could have just as easily been a natural disaster that took out the cities and then later folks were like ya those bastards they got what they deserved, because back in those days hating your neighbor city was the popular thing. oh wait that still happens...lol

I thought that in the catholic/christian religion that has God in, there was only one God, and no Goddesses. if so, how could there be a Goddess of the dawn?

Someday soon, I hope, genetics will be able to show a clear distinction between a heterosexual and homosexual person. After this happens, there will be little left on the topic to argue. After this, history will show that the discrimination against homosexuals was just another form of the religious majority, persecuting a minority.

Why are some people born with both sex organs (hermaphrodites)? What is a hermaphrodite’s sexual preference? If it chooses one or the other, will it not be considered a homosexual? Did god not create these people?


Where does it say angels are sexless in the bible?

[QUOTE]I would tend to think angels were sexless, as it says in the bible


Don't know what bible you're reading, but if you read more closely toward the beginning, you'll notice that there were angels before the big flood that took human women as child bearers. And these women begat what the King James Version of the bible calls the "Nephilium" or in the NIV bible they're called giants.

I guess you have faith that people are born with a genetic sexual preference and I have faith that they don't.

I was born a Christian but gave that up when I was 12.

Like the Matrix I had a choice.

I grew up in a loving family but I would hang out with the 'bad kids' because they were more fun. I got into a lot of trouble but never anything horrible like murder or drug dealing that Houston is known for because I was still a loving kid at heart.

I remember one day I saw a kid being beaten up because he was gay and the way in which his beatings were being carried out painted Jesus' face on the gay kid for me. After he was done being beaten up he just stood up all bloodied and walked off crying. I was like 10 at the time and still in that, "I'm afriad to fight back routine". I remember hearing the whole spiel about gay's being unholy at church and every time I heard it, this kid would come to mind.

I eventually made up my mind that I was going to be the best person I could be, even if it meant defying God's wishes. I'd rather spend an eternity burning in Hell rather than see that scene replay. If the angels were those kids that were severely beating that defenseless gay kid, I'd turn in my soul to be a minion of Hell anyday. Plus I hear Lucifer is good at cards, go fish.

It really starts to surprise me beyond belief how people can be fooled (or actually fool themselves) so easily. I understand perfectly how all these experiences can make someone feel, but I believe there is a very common, unfortunately, mistake here. A very common misconception. People confusing Christianity with the Catholic Church or, even worse in some cases, with a bunch of morons who go from door to door and say that "if you don't do this or that, God will punish you"

To claim that "I defy God's wishes" or "I'll burn in Hell" because you don't do as some fanatic fundamentalist idiots (aka priests, Church officials, fanatic groups) is just ludicrous.

Being the best person you can be, feeling good with yourself and with the people around you, being at peace with your heart, that's all it takes....

By the way, since we're in a religious convo, if you think about it deep down, there's only one sin. Just one. To lie to your heart (Your conscious, if you prefer). If you think about it well, your heart is the one who can always tell you if you're doing the right thing or not...

Well said and right on the mark thank you

DUH! Of copurse it DOES have EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. Like, what do you think men only started being interested in men, etc in THIS century? Hell NO.

And, techincally, angels are NEITHER sex, they have to take on human form to be what you are describing (which is what happened in the book of Enoch) and they always seem to be male. However, DEMONS, that being the SOULS of the hybrid creations talked about in Solomon seem to be either male OR female.

Wow i have to come in here more often.....

Let me remind everyone that S & G were destroyed because they were cities of SIN! Homosexuality was but a mere part of the acts of sin being committed if indeed it was a sin! Perhaps (with no knowledge just thinking out loud) it was adultery that was God's concern or Sex without commitment! But I again remind all these cities SINNED and those sins were widespread in many many areas this destruction was NEVER about Homosexuality!

And yet... the modern sin cities are still standing...

because if God blew up all of the cities that were living in sin today, then 99% of all the cities in the world would be gone.

He didn't seem to care back then.... Why should he now?