In this world there are two beings: humans and Jinns. How do we know that the latter exist? Easiest way to prove this would be to look at magicians and their tricks. Take David Blaine, as an example. How does he perform the so-called magic that he does? He throws a pack of cards at a window and then on the other side appears one of the cards. He asks people to pick out a card and then pulls it out of his mouth. He talks to strangers and then shows them he is wearing their watch or making it appear in a shop window. Do you know how these magicians perform such tricks? They are being aided by Jinns (or whatever you want to call them).

David Blaine is cool, and I love his perfomances but I'm not sure I buy this thing about "jinns"

He might be cool, but he's still using devils to help him.

how do you know?

Because he's blatantly doing tricks that need the assistance of the devil.

hi it's racerette,,

yeah but why the devil???

Who better than the Lord of deception? Don't scoff racerette, us magicians hold sway over some mighty powerful mojo. My Jinn's name is Jim, a pretty amiable demon unless he's deprived of the thing he desires the most, VAMPIRE CHICKIES

Seriously though, Jinn's (or Jinni) are primarily an Islamic supernatural belief although their origins date back to pre-Islamic Turkey. Not only were they believed to be the driving force behind magicians, but also soothsayers, mediums, and anything else that involved 'psychic' powers.

Sharif is correct about one thing, the devil is in the details, as is an enoromous amount of time and patience.

Sharif,

"Take David Blaine, as an example. How does he perform the so-called magic that he does? Simple, expertly executed sleight of hand and misdirection, his more elaborate 'tricks' (like his televised levitation) were indeed blatant, only not supernaturally driven. Camera edits and outside manipulation provide the illusion - the same tricks employed by David Copperfield. If any of these illusions were easily discernable, you'd be hard pressed calling it 'magic', wouldn't you? Of course it always helps to be surrounded by a highly impressionable, easily deceived audience. One could only imagine the impact it has on those who fill their heads with silly notions about satanic demons and other nonsense.

Guess Who

They do exist! Remember when Moses (pbuh) confronted Pharaoh whose magicians performed magic? How did they do their magic? It was with the help of the Jinns/Devils/whatever you wanna call 'em.

That's the problem, Sharif. You're placing your beliefs in tales told long ago, hardly factual or conclusive evidence for their undeniable existance. Religious faith has its place, although there is little to be gained when attempting to apply its various myths and creations to real life.

This is not a tale! It happened a long time ago.

Wow, I wish I knew my Jinn by name MM and I see you and yours have a lot in common...(vampire Chickies... )

Anyways,

I was just saying, how would one know that the devil or someones "jinns" are behind magic just because it's an old Islamic supernatural belief? I think , like MM explained about D Blaine, there are more believable explanations behind the magic and illusion.
But Anyways.........

Shariff it is nice to have some new blood on the forum . An interesting Topic that you have started here . I have seen David Blain and I must say that I think he is a great performer . I would love to know how he does the empty can trick .
However I do not believe he consorts with demons . I think MM hit the nail on the head when he refered to the devil as a metaphor for the time patience and practice that are put into a performance , but not an actuall devil
I would like to just bring your attention to the fact that there are lots of different belief's held by people on this forum , some of us actually believe that magik is a natural force and not one derived from devil worship .
So please If you are going to put forward a topic like this it would be respectfull if you could produce a little more evidence for your side of the story.

I hope you enjoy your time here and that you find the people kind and non-judgemental .

this is the excepted text on Djinn - according to arabic and islamic belief are usually ugly and evil demons with supernatural powers. In pre-islamic powers belief, the djinn were nature spirits who were said to be able to drive people mad, they roamed the wild and lonely desert areas, and could take any shape, whether animal or human.

In islamic lore, the Djinn were modified, they were an intermediate creation, coming between humankind and angels, those that refused to believe in islam became dmons where as those that did became beautiful and good spirits.

there were said to be several kinds of djinn, the ghoul was a female spirit who lived in the wilderness, and manifested as animals.

Iblis, or Satan, is often regarded as the ceif Djinnee.

They are born of smokeless fire and livce on the kaf with other supernatural beings, a mythicl range of mountains that circle the earth.

I find myself quite incredulous that someone in this day and age is attributing
something like this to demons/devils. This is exactly what the people in medieval
times did and what ultimately led to the persecution of 'so called' witches.

You can't believe everything you read and you can't believe everything on stage or
television.

As for the bible - it is a basis of a lot of people's religion but how accurate is a text
that has been compiled by a score of different authors over a period of hundreds of
years and translated back and forth in the interim? Plus don't forget that part of the
bible is missing.

Sharif, question your belief in the demon/devil theory. Look at it objectively.

Loonboy Posted on Mar 11 2003, 10:42 AM

QUOTE

As for the bible - it is a basis of a lot of people's religion but how accurate is a text that has been compiled by a score of different authors over a period of hundreds of years and translated back and forth in the interim? Plus don't forget that part of the bible is missing.

Not to get into a religious debate. I agree LB. The Bible has to be one of the biggest oral histories, that was and still is subject to interpretation, and can be twisted to suit people's ideologies, political leanings, etc, etc.

As for the likes of David Blaine etc, entertaining to a point yes..... in league with the Devil, Djinns whatever... I don't think so

In all probability I think David Blaine is simply a dam good illusionist - the idea that he's being assisted by invisible demons is even more mystifying than some of his tricks.

Wasn't there a program on not long ago about how David Blaine performed his tricks?
A lot of editing is involved, also a lot of planted people.
<click him for info on how to do Magic Tricks.

david blaine is ok....derren brown is awsome

If you lot don't believe in another specie that dwells amongst us, then how comes you've come to this site? Poltergeists are jinns. They can turn themselves into anything (yes anything! even a relative), can almost do anything (ufo - that's them playing tricks), and can be either good or bad (usually the bad ones are the ones we experience most).

This website gets it in one, when it states: "a Poltergeist is a ghost* with the ability to move objects in the physical world, create noises and other disturbances. Poltergeist activity can be identified by objects moving by themselves, cold spots forming, strange smells or sounds, and other noticeable paranormal phenomena."

[*ghost, devils, demons = Jinn].

Now those of us who believe in God, within the three Abrahamic faiths, cannot deny that there is another specie that lives on this earth with us. Just have a quick flick through your scripture and you will references made to them.

Ahh sharif I do believe in the wee folk and there ability to aid in the performing of Magik but I don't believe they are devils . This is where the argument you make is limited.