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Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality vs Skepticism

4dplane

Nov 23 2004, 08:34 PM

Many people that I have had discussions with believe that the motto "IN GOD WE TRUST” was on the original US currency. The fact that it was not, is evidence that the founding fathers wanted a strong separation of church and state.

QUOTE

History of 'In God We Trust'
The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:

Source
http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets...d-we-trust.html

So what do you think, keep it or get rid of it?

For the ones that want to see it removed.
http://www.petitiononline.com/igwtrfc/petition.html

Not that I would sign a petition online.

aquatus1

Nov 23 2004, 08:38 PM

Heck, the secularization of the phrase is fine by me. Frankly, the argument that this would show government support of religion always seemed a simplistic argument to me.

__Kratos__

Nov 23 2004, 11:45 PM

I say get rid of it. This is America, and not everybody believes in god.

Asterix

Nov 24 2004, 11:21 AM

QUOTE(__Kratos__ @ Nov 24 2004, 01:45 AM)

I say get rid of it. This is America, and not everybody believes in god.
[right][snapback]369480[/snapback][/right]

Not everybody believes in money, either

But seriously, when it comes to symbols and banners of a country, there is a fine line seperating the "tradition", or what is part of a certain cultural inheritance, and the reality.

__Kratos__

Nov 26 2004, 10:06 PM

tradition? maybe for the ones that believe in god call it that. i think it should be removed cause it inflicts on the ones that don't believe in god. Seperation of church and state - ever hear of it?

Stellar

Nov 26 2004, 10:10 PM

QUOTE(__Kratos__ @ Nov 26 2004, 10:06 PM)

tradition? maybe for the ones that believe in god call it that. i think it should be removed cause it inflicts on the ones that don't believe in god. Seperation of church and state - ever hear of it?
[right][snapback]373651[/snapback][/right]

I think it should stay for its traditional value...

saucy

Nov 27 2004, 08:34 PM

#1-the current U.S. money we have now is in itself unconstitutional. The constitution declares that NOTHING can be made into U.S. currency except silver and gold. There is actually a story of a lawyer who defeated the U.S. government who tried to get him to pay his debts but the man argued that the money is unconstitutional and he didn't have to pay. He won the case. Our money is backed on nothing.

#2-everywhere I go, people try to pull separation of church and state out of their butts. What a lot of people don't realize is that nowhere in the constitution is there separation of church and state. Nowhere. Not only is it not in the constitution, but was only created to make sure that our country doesn't have one established religion. It makes it so that every religion is welcome here in our country. Look it up next time before you pull separation of church and state.

4dplane

Nov 27 2004, 09:03 PM

Your first point is an interesting one. Can you give us a link supporting the story?

QUOTE

What a lot of people don't realize is that nowhere in the constitution is there separation of church and state.

Nor in the constitution is there a definitive statement that shows there should be “NO” separation of church and state, but obviously there is. If there was not, things would be a lot different around here. There are only two theocracies left in the world today, The Vatican and Iran.

QUOTE

Theocracy is a form of government in which the governmental rulers are identical with the leaders of the dominant religion, and governmental policies are either identical with or strongly influenced by the principles of the majority religion. Typically, the government claims to rule on behalf of God or a higher power, as specified by the local religion.

Current theocratic nations today include:
• the Islamic Republic of Iran
• the Vatican City/Holy See (see also Papal States)

Source
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclop.../theocracy.html

So what are you saying saucy, is this what the fathers wanted when they wrote the US constitution?

Darkwind

Nov 27 2004, 10:05 PM

This is what the constitution says:

QUOTE

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This is how the Supreme Court interpretes it:

QUOTE

The US Supreme Court has interpreted the First Amendment as if it requires this "wall of separation" between church and state. It not only prohibits any government from adopting a particular denomination or religion as official, but requires government to avoid any involvement in religion.

The separation of church and state is a good thing. We need to maintain it at all cost.
We don't want to end up another Iran. We need to get it off the money.

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