I have a pertty good idea on what these 'giants' and 'hybrids' (actually one and the same, but one book says there were 3 types) were that was the result of these humans and 'Sons of God', what does anyone else think?

Also, to me, it would appear that Enoch was the ONLY one who seemed to know about the ENTIRE solar system. He described the 'prison of the angels' as desolate and having ICE on it (sounds like Pluto). He also said there was 7 'stars' which appeared like stones bound together which could be viewed from this place. Now, he mentions the Sun and Moon SEPARATELY, and also the Earth, obviously separately (in the first Heaven he could see a sea much vaster than any sea as seen on Earth - the Earth itself LOOKS like a giant sea when viewed from above). He also stated these bound stars colors. It started with one that looked like a pearl (white - Mercur), then there were a two of reddish color (Venus and Mars), some like Jasper (Jupiter, Saturn) and IN THE MIDDLE, there were ones that were BLUE (like Sapphire). Now, both Uranus and Neptune are BLUE to Blue-green and these were planets they supposedly didn't even know about then. As viewed from Pluto, Neptune and Uranus ARE in the middle (he was on this desolate wasteland where there were no birds etc, and it had ice). He also said that this desolate wasteland was AT THE EDGE OF THE UNIVERSE. Techincally, Pluto is the end of OUR solar system, and from memory it WAS in the lower Heavens. That makes 7 if veiwed from Pluto, and they ARE bound by a constant orbit around the Sun, and as I said above, the Sun, Moon and Earth are talked of separately. In fact way back when, the names of Uranus and Neptune AND Pluto already existed. Pluto has ALWAYS been known as a dark place (ruling planet of Scorpio).

Now, I tend to believe that it WAS the way it was written, just as I believe that unless it is specifically said in the Bible that something is a parable, then it IS THE WAY IT SAID IT WAS. The book of Enoch throws off the parable idea because THEY KNEW TOO MUCH for it not to have been the way it said it was.

Anyway, I could go on and on about that book, because it is evry interesting and adds alot of weight to eveything said it in the Bible. The story of the fallen angels marrying human women is IN GENESIS in the part that says 'And the Sons of GOD (otherwise said, in Hebrew as 'b'nai Elohim' which literally means ANGEL, and it was of course originally written IN HEBREW, this is where translations get mixed up along the way) married the daughters of MEN. Then it goes onto to says 'and there were giants around in those days', then it specifically talks about the flood, which in Enoch, explains that the reason for the flood was to wipe out these giants that were ruling the land. So, I just thought I'd explain that for those who try to discredit this book. Also, Jude takes a whole quote from Enoch and actually SAYS it was from the Book of Enoch, as does Peter, and I think Jesus Himself talked about Enoch. The book of Enoch was THE original Bible, and it found in the Dead Sea scrolls, etc. It's been found about 10 times by separate sources. Also, it specifically says at the end of the book, that God Himself told Enoch to share the book with EVERYONE, so no this was NOT a forbidden book.

It also talks about astrology, how the 8th Heaven is for the Zodiacs, the 9th for the HOUSES of the Zodiacs (anyone who knows about astrology knows what that is). One of the angels that taught the people about astrology, did get in trouble for it, but the fact that he taught it and that there are places in Heaven for the Zodiacs means that astrology does actually have meaning. I think the problem had more to do with the fact that people started worshipping the stars and planets as gods themselves, instead of understanding that there is only ONE God who controls everything. That, and they were ALL in trouble for what was going on to start with, and for giving away secrets of Heaven, one of which, was obviously astrology. If you'll also notice, the cathedrals in Rome have Zodiac carvings, and in Revlation and Ezekial (I think it's that one anyway) they talk about the cherubim one head a bull (Taurus), one a lion (Leo), one an Eagle (Scorpio. This sign actually has THREE symbols, one the scorpion the lowest most evil form, two, the serpent, somewhere in the middle, and 3 the Eagle of pheonix, the highest of all, and capable of the greatest good), and one the head of a human (Aquarius). The connection between these four signs is that they are the four FIXED signs of the Zodiac making a fixed cross. Not all angels look human I might add, and anyone who has REALLY read Revelation, or Daniel, or Ezekial should know that by now. No, they are NOT talking metaphoriacally, in most cases, they REALLY look like that, BUT they CAN appear human.

Anyway, it was St. Augustine which threw out the book of Enoch, Astrology (on the basis that twins could look dofferent and have different lives - obviously he did not understand astrology very well), and basically, as it was said, thought everything was evil, had a grim outlook on life, and that was being accepted at the time because the church wanted to control the masses. He pretty much made Christianity what it is today, originally, it was very different.

By the way, if you don't even believe in God in the first place why are you even reading this? I don't want stupid comments, if you don't have something constructive to say (that being when you actually KNOW about the entire subject to even comment in the first place) then don't say anything at all.

Excellent points !!!! ... Hard to get Enoch tho (seeming they didn't put it in the Bible) I think it was one that should have been in Most people overlook it as simply about Angels ... No other book describes or names the angels like Enoch BUT the book was stunning regarding the Map of the Heavens !!!! I am pretty certain however that it didn't pre-date theTorah .... OTHERWISE I like what you said & I am pretty much totally in agreement !!!! Blessings To You AWESOME POST

I have read about Enoch before...they don't really go into too much detail in the bible except what I do remember was that he walked with God and was actually taken- never died from what I assume.
I didn't know though about the seperate book of his...how did you find all this info out? and if there is more info...do u have any links on it?

The reason Enoch is not in the bible is that it is what is called an pseudepigrapha, that is a book written long after the supposed occurances and given the authors name of someone that lived during that period. That Enoch was a "forgery" (really that is all that a pseudepigrapha is) was known as far back of the 1st century BCE (it was written in the second century BCE by Maccabean scribes) and for this reason was not included in the bible. Every so often, it is "rediscovered" and the charlatans and the gullible go crazy over it for a while.

Thanks Daz

HD, if you go to Amazon.com there's heaps of them and you can read them for free if you put a credit card in (that's valid) for I.D.. They don't charge you - that's what I've been doing lol

Beowolf, that's crap, because like I said before. JUDE AND PETER AND JESUS (I'm not sure about Jesus though I'll have to check) QUOTED ENOCH.

Here are some quotes from THE CURRENT BIBLE (of which you would know nothing about because I know from previously posts you've made, you are neither Christian, nor Jewish, or anything like that, have probably never actually READ a Bible and are, to some degree totally against the entire Judeo-Christian religion saying that it only promotes war...right?).

Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 1:8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. (angels are referred to as stars in Enoch, Revelation, and pretty much throughout the ENTIRE BIBLE. Like the fallen marning star which was called lucifer)

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


Now, anything else you want to say to try to discredit this?

Just TRY and prove me wrong..hehehe

Sorry, just had to do that lol.

You can read the Book of Enoch at http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm

It's a creepy book. Damn angels, flying down to earth and mating with my women! And they are mine! All mine. I get to keep them.

I can't remember. Did their offspring die in the flood. I remember in Joshua they saw giants as big as such offspring. The scouts told Joshua such. It didn't hurt him, though. He still fallujaed the canaanites. He slaughtered almost everybody. Some were weak though and backed down. Like the collaborators.

What does Nephilim mean anyway? I don't think it means giants. I'm no expert at Hebrew, but it can't mean giants. It's a mistranslation. Stupid King James Version. There was a miracle of the Jews all those years ago, and the Septuagint was magically translated accurately. But since all God's work has been undone. Because he doesn't care about us anymore.

You can't deny it...

Everyone watch my tv show.

1st of all, the whole angels mating with humans thing stated in Genesis and the giants roaming the land was something of Satanic proportions. The sons of God were actually demons who came and influenced people into horrible decisions and mated with them. It was all in Satan's attempt to mix with God's creation and perhaps stop the lineage of Christ. The angels were indeed demons and the times pre-flood were just horrible and evil, worse than today and it warrented the destruction.

2nd-despite what many people understand, the heavens (stars and planets) have a major impact on the planet than more realize. Of course people understand the sun which helps sustain life, but the sun also (obviously) helps count days and such. The moon plays an important part in earth's ecology and helps keep track of the months. The stars and the galaxies can be measured yearly and monthly. Certain constellations visit the part of the skies at exactly the same time of year. If I had all the materials in front of me, I could get into better details, but you can do the research yourself. There's a whole method to everything, but the stars or planets weren't meant to be worshipped.

Ok, now here's where it gets messy. These angels were NOT demons to begin with, they were GOOD angels, part of those watching over humanity. They were supposed to help humanity by telling them some things, but after this human women thing, they went overbaord. They were FALLEN (not the same as demon, demon was used more for their OFFSPRING, which had NEVER been in Heaven) AFTER this event occured. They LEFT their place in Heaven (and were eventually thrown out), they did not raise up out of hell.

And what is this sh** I keep seeing about trying to wipe out humanity so that Jesus wouldn't be born? I hate to tell you this, but if God created Adam out of dust, even IF they had have mixed with EVERYONE, God could still have created a pure lineage again anyway. It does NOT anywhere in the ENTIRE book of Enoch say ANYTHING about wiping out humanity with so that Jesus wouldn't be born (and yes, it DOES talk about Jesus in there). They even TRIED to repent, but God, obviously, said no.

Now, can I also remind you that this book also talks about Jesus, where God refers to His 'Beloved Son', and Mary 'The Queen of Heaven'. It ALSO talks about THE antichrist, describes what he looks like, and how he's behind bars in hell waiting to be let out to do what's described in Revelation.

2nd, yes, I agree that the stars and planets aren't meant to be worshipped, but that is not what astrology is about. God created astrology, God CONTROLS astrology, otherwise there would be no 8th Heaven for the Zodiacs, or a 9th Heaven for the HOUSES OF THE ZODIACS which is ONLY something used IN astrology. Also, the four cherubim as described above embody zodiac signs.

Thanks Anson

Yeah from what I've heard the 3 wise men were actually astrologers (Magi I think they called them), and the star was probably an angel itself, because stars are described to be angels.

In the full book of Solomon (not the cut to bits one in the current Bible) one of the demons who was under Solomon's control (God gave Solomon power to punish demons, and even to build for him, these demons seemed to be the souls of the nephilim as they described their fathers as being angels and their mothers mortal, most of them anyway) anyway, this demon told Solomon that when you see a shooting star it is an angel which has no place to rest in Heaven, a fallen angel. Fallen angels can still go into Heaven and hear what's going on, but, because they are fallen, there is no resting place for them (maybe stars are what angels rest on, possibly) so they fall, and are seen as a shooting star.

First of all, there are only three heavens, not nine or whatever. Secondly, this whole demon bit was in Genesis. Is there something in Enoch about it? The sons of God are indeed the fallen angels that were under the control of Satan. Satan tried to mix with the humans to destroy our race and to make sure our Saviour wasn't born. He didn't succeed. Astrology is it's whole religion and is pagan. It's wrong. The stars and planets and all that are just that. Stars and planets.

I thought satan was not even mentioned in the book of genesis? It claims serpents used to be more intelligent and ounce actually talked. (It never resembled todays snake in any way according ot the text.) The devil is not even mentioned in the story of The Garden of Eden.

There are indeed more than 3 Heavens. Have you looked at space? How vast it it to have only 3? And WHERE exactly does it say that there are ONLY 3? There are 7 Heavens (there other 3 parts are in the SEVENTH HEAVEN where God is which make up the '10 Heavens') The First Heaven houses the fallen angels where they hang day and night, the, The 5th has the Grigori and the fallen watchers (the ones talked about above, it seems all but 3 who were blamed with the entire crime and are bound under the Earth until the judgement, when they will be released by the archangels (so, if you start seeing them around you know it's bye bye time lol j/k), so the other 197 of them are in the 5th Heaven), the 6th has some of the most powerful angels, the Irin Qaddisin are two sets of twin angels which carry out judgement, etc etc etc. There are quadrimillions of angels, and believe me darling they all need a place which takes up more than just 3 Heavens. There are also 7 Hells, and 7 layers of the Earth. The 3rd Heaven is said to have the Prophets in it and is like Eden, it may be that humans go to this 3rd Heaven, and therefore, that's why you've heard about 3 Heavens.

Rainbow,

Satan is mentioned in Eden, he, and his minions (the Girgori in the 5th Heaven, who were said to be standing like an army grim faced, whcih Enoch told them, and the fallen watchers to started praising God so as not to aggrivate Him more, which they did...) was thrown out for wanting to 'exalt his throne higher than God'. He was, once, the most powerful and favoured angel of God, but who, through pride, ruined it for himself, which is why pride is seen as such a sin. Now, Satan (known as Satanail) DID help create Eden, he made the vine tree. When Noah came off the boat after the flood, he found a vine on the ground, and asked God if he should plant this vine. He was told to plant it as good would come from it (it was said to be used for Holy purposes, they knew THEN that wine would be used like we have it in Communion) and that good would come from it. But, it was said, be warned, there is still some evil in it (like alcohol abuse, which leads to fornication, murder, etc), and therefore, basically to be careful how you use it. He was thrown down to Earth (rewad Revelation, about the serpent who was 'accousing our BRETHEREN, day and night' (note BRETHEREN, and this was said by an ANGEL, bretherin to angels is ANGELS not humans) was thrown down TO THE EARTH. And then it says 'Woe to the Earth' because the dragon has gone down to you'. This is where satan being the accusing angel comes in. He was also said to be 'Prince of the Earth' being that I suppose the ills of this Earth are in some way, caused by him.

Remember this, God said 'I make the good and the bad' and that God created Adam to see 'who among his race would love Me or abhor Me' THIS IS WHAT IT'S REALLY ABOUT.

God even test His own angels. When Enoch was taken to the 10th Heaven with God, God 'tested one of His angels' and asked him to bring out the books to Enoch (which Enoch now keeps records of when he because an angel. He didn't just becaome ANY angel, he is one of the HIGHEST, that being Metatron (his 'twin' being Sandalphon, who was actually the prophet Elijah, no NO OTHER HUMAN HAS BEEN SAID TO BECOME AN ANGEL, only them). Enoch was also the first to write. It was also said that Azza was thrown out by God for strongly opposing Enoch becoming an angel (Azza was also said to be one of the fallen watchers) and hangs upside down in mid space with one eye opened and one closed so that the horror of crashing is always present.

I know what I'm talking about here, like Anson said, I've done my homework

And how do you know that it was Jude, Peter, and Jesus that quoted Enoch (which would have been around for around 100 years at that time anyway) it could have been the non-witness authors of the various books - after all you only have the word of the Catholic Church that those books were written by the authors that are assigned by tradition. Yet many of the early church fathers plainly stated that no one really knew who wrote them!

Is that the best come back you've got? You can only make an assumtion that it wasn't written by the said person. Even if it wasn't, it still proves that Enoch was the original Bible, was in major circulation (it was found in about 10 different places), and I do tend to believe it WAS written by who it says it was.

Any you can only make the assumption that it was...my assumption is backed by history and yours only by blind faith in the Catholic Church and the pagan Emperor Constantine of Rome!


Actually it was never in either the Jewish Torah or the Xian NT.....it was simply a pseudoepigrapha that is filled with anachronisms and was recognized by the sect that Jesus belonged to (Essene) as a forgery!


Knock yourself out....blind faith is comforting but seldom correct!

Correction, you forget the story of Enoch was ALSO IN GENESIS. and I quote
Gen 6:2
"And the SONS of God (translated from Hebrew Benai Elohim, which LITERALLY means ANGEL) saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
(Exactly what is said to happen in Enoch)

Gen 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
(The Nephillim ARE the proper name of the giants in as said in Enoch)

Gen 5:
18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch. 19 And after he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Altogether, Jared lived 962 years, and then he died.
21 When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. 22 And after he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 And after he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 27 Altogether, Methuselah lived 969 years, and then he died.
28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29 He named him Noah [3] and said, "He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed." 30 After Noah was born, Lamech lived 595 years and had other sons and daughters. 31 Altogether, Lamech lived 777 years, and then he died.
32 After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.

When it said 'and God took him away' that is the account of Enoch becoming the angel Metatron.

Now, what was that you were saying again?

Oh and the Torah DOES give an account of it, so does the Zohar, I know, I HAVE these books. It's part of GENESIS.

That's right, Enoch is in Genesis - that is what an pseudepigraph is - a forgery assigned the name of a "historical/mythical" character to give it fake validation. This is just what the Maccabean author of Enoch did when he wrote it around 200 BCE! That is what I was saying. Incidentally, a book (Genesis) that contains a talking snake holds very little water with me.

Well, Genesis pre-dates our current Bible with the Torah, and technically, you are just trying to get out of the fact that you have NO COMEBACK.

I'll be bak to play little 'who knows history better' games with tomorrow. For now, I'm off.

beowulf seems intent to point out to everyone who believes in God how stupid they are and how much smarter he is than all of us who do, so this is written with the hopes that beowulf will skip over it. Thank you.

The sons of God who came into the daughters of men are, in my theory, the beings that were known as the Greek gods of ancient times. Demigods were the offspring of gods and mortal women, and they had an interesting physical characteristic. Want to guess what the characteristic was? Well, if you aren't sure, I'll tell you; the characteristic was that the demigods were giants. That sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it? So you had all these fallen angels running around and claiming dominion over different parts of the earth, and convincing people to worship them instead of God in the process. So the whole situation of the fallen ones mating with human women was not them trying to divert the birth of Christ, it was them trying to seperate man from God by giving man another (and a false) set of dieties to worship in God's place. It worked for a while, until God destroyed the earth. And now, we read the Greek writings on their gods and see it all as fiction. Odd, that. Maybe after the next destruction of the world, if there is one to happen that isn't the final one, people will look back at the stories of alien abductions and realize that they are just another plan similar to the Greek gods plan set into motion by The Enemy.

At least Beowulf doesn't believe in absurd mythology!

He will one day!

Nope, I have no worries about your mythology being true - You might want to do some real study of history and see how ridiculous your mythology is!

Isn't it fascinating how Xians assume that they have superior knowledge and that we will "learn" how right they are - What if the Muslims are the ones that have the truth, or the Hindus, or the Deists?

You are free to believe as you wish!

But I will still believe as I wish.... and we will one day see... !

Yep, you better hope that you don't have to stand in front of the Deist Creator and explain why you wasted you life worshipping a Jewish myth when you could have been following his desires!

ah.. okay...

See .. good for you ... practicing your beliefs!

No, Beowulf is not trying to prove how much smarter he is, you folks do a good enough job at it. Beowulf believes in a Creator, he does not believe in the Xian God and definately not in his bastard child (Hey, they weren't married were they -so legally the designation would be that). If you would study history, you would see why!

I have no interest in interacting with you, beowulf. You have no openess in your supposedly advanced mind. Take care.

Ok, correction, the fallen, as I said before were NOT bad angels to begin with. They asked God for forgiveness through Enoch, but because of what they did God said no. Yes, I have noted the similarity between Greek mythology and this, and it was their OFFSPRING the giants who were being worshipped, not the angels themselves. It seems the offspring having come from an illigitimate source (God Himself called them the 'bastards and reprobates') seem to have been all rotten, having never known Heaven.
However, God let them go unpunished until the flood, probably as a lesson to the people and the angels for what they had done. The fallen angels were to watch their sons be destroyed as part of THEIR punishment. I don't think they did what they did with malice, or to wipe out humanity so that Jesus wouldn't be born, they were in Heaven, they KNEW God, the did God's work once upon a time. But, they made a huge mistake, and that mistake can still be seen today, because the same things described in the Book of Enoch (bar the human/angel hybrid thing) STILL continue to occur today. And it was said by Jesus Himself that the end would be like it was before the flood of Noah.
It was also said that the women they married were asking them for secrets (one started asking what the firmanent of Heaven was, and to keep their wives happy they gave these secrets away) which again shows it wasn't malice, nor probably particularly anything against God, but it WAS a disaster. God Himself, explained to Enoch to tell them WHY He didn't make wives for them, because they dwelling place was in the Heavens, and they don't NEED wives.

And, let me add, humanity was NOT so innocent in this account either (read above), or else God would not have wanted to wipe out humanity completely (which He did, because EVERYONE was corrupt), it was only through Enoch's great-grandson, Noah that God found favour and saved him and his family, in which case, God made a covenant with Noah about humanity. And that, therefore is why all you lovely people still eat breathe and sh** today.

BTW beowulf, Muslims have the same themes as both Christianity and Judiasm. They have an angel Gabriel, Michael, the angel of death, Azrael described the SAME WAY (covered in eyes, one eye closes when a man dies and opens when they are born), etc. They ALSO have an account of the angel Gabriel going to Mary and Jesus being born. So get out of that one. They have the same conecpts and created a whole new religion from it.

Please don't try to teach your grandpa how to such eggs, I am well aware that Abe's three bloody kids are all on the same basic page, they just can't figure out who God really is (as if any of you have a real clue, any more than the rest of us).

As for Enoch, go look at my post in the "Jesus and the line of David" posting, I don't like to post the same thing in more than one place.

Please do a little study of real history and quit being so gullible as to accepting ancient forgeries that the first Xians rejected!

Beowulf,

How do you know what I know of God? What do YOU know exactly, besides the fact that you can't even accept His existence? Don't tell ME, about the book of Enoch, I have REPEATEDLY shown references, and there are more which go into the account of Enoch in so many ways that you of all people, who has never really studied a Bible in the first place, should not even begin to suggest what you claim to *know* as ancient history, especially that which comes from what you term 'xians'. Yes, self-pity and an excuse for claiming minority status, which, conversely, tries to dominate using deceptive form, are what drives you to such ignorance. Believe what you will, but don't try to play with the 'big people' in your kindergarten land which has no understanding, nor even ATTEMPTS to.

I am amazed that so many non-Judeo-Christian people here are so willing to dispute the book of Enoch over a Bible they don't even believe in.

I know you have many misconceptions about what you believe, that you left Xianity for Judaism (which according to Paul, means you can never return to Xianity, that you are doomed to eternal hellfire), I know that you have for some reason decided that Enoch is god's pure word, even tho 20 centuries ago they knew it wasn't. I wish you wouldn't attempt to speak for me, I accept the existence of the Creator, but not of your blood-thirsty Hebrew Demon-God!

You have shown references to the MAN, not the BOOK! I can't believe you claim an IQ of 210, when you can comprehend simple English statements!

I have no self-pity, I only pity individuals like you that live in a dream world, where you are highly intelligent and sit on God's right hand as the true prophet! I don't have to try to dominate the forum, you Xians are doing that and ignoring everyone else that asks to to take your religious posts to an Xian website! As for ignorance, I will match my degrees, IQ and knowledge of history, science and the world with yours any day!

Well, you must not be one of them, because I have no trouble show what an dufus you are!

'Xians' as you call them, dominating the board? That's a first, when I first came here, NO 'xian' could say a word without a gang of people jumping down their throat, what's it like to be on the other side of the fence?

I have no misconceptions, and I'm not claiming to be a 'prophet'. I'm telling it like it is. The thing about Paul, show me the reference, and I'll show you where your misconceptions are, which I'm sure many other Christians have. It's not the RELIGION taht's important, it's what you BELIEVE. You can go to church 5 times a day and not really BELIEVE in God, maybe because you don't understand Him, or haven't bothered to find out. Yes, you SHOULD go to church (if you believe) but you should also try and understand what your listening to, not just fall asleep, or wait for your smoke break. Going to church is not a 'duty'.

As for it not referring to THE book, I found one before I even started these posts that DID quote THE book, from Jude, and seeing as there are so many translations and people change words around in the Bible to suit themselves (which originally if ONE word...ONE LETTER, was mispelt, or changed the ENTIRE document was thrown out, if ANY part was taken out - like how they've done with MANY of the books in our CURRENT Bible, like Solomon, and Ezra, etc - the ENTIRE document was not even CONSIDERED, so don't tell ME that I shouldn't be bringing forth the PUREST form of these texts) and I'm still currently trying to find the page that I found that on. When I do, I shall post it here WITH the url link, just to shut you all up. You all whinge about how this was thrown out, and that it's going to what was it bring forth angel worship someone claimed, (how many statues and churches of St. Michael, who is the ARCHANGEL MICHAEL do you see around?) and it's gonna do this and that. What are you AFRAID of? Can't handle the truth? The truth never hurt nobody.

If you believe in a Creator, fine, but why don't you look into it more? LOOK at what they knew then. This book is by no means bad. EVEN the bad events just go to show where all this *knowledge* really came from, not a HUMAN mind, but the secrets of HEAVEN. Maybe those Egyptians weren't so smart after all. It explains to people about Heaven, it shows you what hell is like. Everyone (for those who believe) wants to go to Heaven but no one wants to hear what it's like. You may believe in God, but you aren't interested in trying to understand GOD.

And, the reason it was called the WORD OF GOD, is because originally, it WAS ONE Word. No passages, no numbers, no sentences, no punction, NOTHING. ALL one WORD. Now look at it.

Sounds like blasphemy to me.

And we should care, why?

What? Did somebody just say something?

I know you have many misconceptions about what you believe, that you left Xianity for Judaism (which according to Paul, means you can never return to Xianity, that you are doomed to eternal hellfire), I know that you have for some reason decided that Enoch is god's pure word, even tho 20 centuries ago they knew it wasn't. I wish you wouldn't attempt to speak for me, I accept the existence of the Creator, but not of your blood-thirsty Hebrew Demon-God!

Fortunately, any misconceptions she does have and not quite a sdamning as the ones you are plagued with. For someone who doesn't believe the Bible, you sure do quote it alot. I believe Lucifer also quoted the Bible when trying to temp Jesus. Hmmm

I have no self-pity, I only pity individuals like you that live in a dream world, where you are highly intelligent and sit on God's right hand as the true prophet!

It's not us who are intellegent, but God. He gives us wisdom which threatens those who reject him. We make no claim to be prophets. We are merely servents of God.

What an Xian again? I think you are refering to some one other than me. I don't follow X. I follow Christ. Why are you so threatened by this, that you can't even say his name? Just because I don't believe insomething doesn't mean I go around putting X's everywhere. It seems a little pathetic.

I don't have to try to dominate the forum, you CHRISTians are doing that and ignoring everyone else that asks to to take your religious posts to an CHRISTian website!

Why should we move our posts? We have freedom of speech here just like you do. We are allowed to express and sicuss our oninions and beliefs just as you are. This is something I personally would fight and die for: Freedom of speech for ALL mankind


As for ignorance, I will match my degrees, IQ and knowledge of history, science and the world with yours any day!

I don't think this is a contest to see who has the biggest willy. I think it is Christians trying to share their beliefs, and answer questions about them, and defend against attacks. It makes out faith stronger.

How childish.



You've got to when the persons made up their mind that if it contradicts the bible, its wrong.



Hmm, heres something else. Your "forgiving" god will not forgive those who dont believe in him. Pagans, however, claim their gods will forgive those who dont even believe in them.



I think it is christians trying to force feed their beliefs as the only truth, and insult anyone who believes otherwise.

Hmm, pagan 'gods' forgive do they? Funny, I didn't know they have that power LOL Anyone seen a piece of wood or a rock condemn someone to hell?

God DOES forgive. It would be worse, God says for a person who IS virtuous to turn away than for a wicked person to turn to God. God says Himself He would RATHER have people repent and come back to Him than have to punish them, but seeing as no one cares, why should He?

About as much as I've seen any other god condemn someone to hell.



Oh well, that changes everything!



Because its his fault we dont believe him? Because he claims to forgive everything? Just to name a few...

Why should He forgive someone who for starters doesn't believe in Him, has never attempted to repent, and quite frankly, isn't the least bit sorry for anything that they've done. One who believes they are blameless. As it was said, he who is blameless cast the first stone. Don't cast stones when you live in a glass house. And you don't have the right to cast 'stones' at God in the first place.

How can you follow he who has not yet come? Your religion get the X because it is a false religion (prove otherwise, and your mythology is not acceptable - we need the "Man" to walk up and announce himself!).

Ever heard the old saying, "Your freedoms end at my nose?" There are millions of deluded Xian websites out there, go inflict you insanity on them, personally 80% of the board is not Xian and really don't want to have it constantly inflicted on us! Folks like you, Blazer, and Ashley make it hard on the Folks like twpdyp and other moderates who will debate and even admit when they are wrong. So move it over to where it is appreciated!

No, people like twpdyp are trying to share their beliefs, you two are trying to ram your bogus beliefs down everyones throats including the other Xians. It is not appreciated by anyone else!

Ah Ashley, I understand God, I have studied him and his love probably for many more years than you have been around. You see I worship a God, not a book or a dogma as you seem to. You might want to come to the Creator and experience his love and see how much more satisfying it is than your pagan beliefs. You way is dying and mine is coming to term, soon to be the replacement of yours (along with Atheism and Agnosticism), so come and leave your blood-thirsty Hebrew demon and his bastard son (no Instep - Insight, it is not blasphemy, it is only blasphemy if the God is real and not a pagan god as is yours!)

LMAO, like I said, you don't understand God.

And, if you fiund 'xians' as you call them, so irritating, then don't read it. If this board can cater for athiests which have previously dominated the board, then 'xians' should also have a say.

As for the Man walking up and anouncing, what do you think Jesus was here for?Yes, I can just see you now going up to God (whom you somehow claim to believe in, in some wierd way...) and telling Him about what was it?

I'm sure He'd just love that.

And you claim God to be a 'pagan god'? I'm not entirely sure WHAT you believe in, but you sound confused.

To put it lightly...

The book of Enoch is a great book, probably the most interesting of the books of the Bible, I just believe it to not be true, because God wouldn't let somebody desicrate real books of the Bible. And there's all that stuff about the angels which could lead to angel worship.

But the book of Enoch gives us an interesting and fun to read insight in Biblical "history".

I think it's an extremely interesting thing to read, and people SHOULD get their hands on it as best they can. I just don't think it's true.