The Mayans didn't predict anything. Their current calendar cycle simply ends in December 2012. And the new one begins.

I'm not aware of any other culture that has a specific 'end date' let alone 2012 - that year occurs only in woo-woo nonsense aimed at selling books to the gullibles.

Then again, all those predictions the world would end in 1999/2000/2003 etc etc came true, didn't they?

and nibiru's been overdue twice as well,
damn those annunaki, can't they tell the time

Well, yes the possibility that the only thing that happens in 2012 is that a new calendar takes by and continues.

But I heard (could be bullcrap as usual) that Tibetan monks came up with a similar prediction, "the late 2012"... who knows....

you heard ?
name your source newbie
don't be embarressed
hehehe
we won't bite

unless you're talking about this http://www.rense.com/general63/rv.htm
so to believe in it now only do you have to believe that
a ) tibetan monks can remote view into the future
b ) tibetan monks are in contact with extra terrestrials
c ) aliens are watching our every move
d ) we have not been responsible for our fate so far
e ) aliens are gonna intervene to save us.

i'll stop there because another 15 possibilities just popped up.
that list could run and run
I wonder as well just how many monks they've got working on this problem and does the abbot know ?
Lets not forget that these guys are so clever they not only missed the invasion of china they also don't seem to know which child the dali lama is gonna pop up in next.
and most of them wear glasses iirc

The universe is infinite in it's possibilities.

Unlikely
it'd be more like possible to have infinite universes where only one possibility gets played out.
or limitless possible infinities in a infinite set of infinite universes
or something like that
"The universe is infinite in it's possibilities"
thats far too easy to understand

I mean.. imagine peering into the wrong dimension?

That would be just plain misleading to us folks in 2005!

Would a WW2 scenario have happened of Adolf Hitler had not been born?

And what would life be like now?

Did the Mayans have any ideas on Life After Death..

Someone i work with, whom i chat with about paranormal quite often has a theory that the souls of dead people form a 'spiritual plain' or 'layer' that surrounds the planet.

what does he call the layer ?

Sort of like the Astral plane, if that makes sense. Sure it's getting mighty crammed up there!

If no one believes that the world as we know it is going to change how can you explain all the changes going on. Our days are getting shorter, time speeding up, earth changes, and the mental state of humans in general.

And yes before it is said I personally do not believe that because we have smoking cars and plastic trash that’s what’s destroying the planet.

Just a thought.

'And yes before it is said I personally do not believe that because we have smoking cars and plastic trash that’s what’s destroying the planet.

Just a thought.'

lord, do you mean that you think it is not these things destroying the earth? If you think it is something else I can assure you that it is these things. Well global warming anyway.

I can't wait till 2012, just to see whats gonna happen...

Ok real facts:

1)Mayan where long gone when the spanish came to central america.

2)Biggest Mayan city COPAN in Honduras Central America

3)Predictions jajajja NONE

4)Calendar the most accurate in the ancient world. It was even better than the incas.

5)How do i know all these facts cause i live 115km from Copan

6)What do we know of the mayan VERY little most of their history is hasn't being made public.

6)Aztecs and Moctezuma are not the same guys Aztecs where gone after that came Moctezuma and started to live in the ruins so real aztecs what happened to them also a mystery.

7)Two birds as someone point it out can be a whole lot of different things

a)hiroshima&nagasaki
9/11
c)etc.

The world is not only the usa remember 9/11 was usa first taste of what's has been going on the world for some time.It was dome to happen remeber the fable of the elefant and rat ...the rat had rabies so it killed the elephant even do the elefant was a mighty creature.

I do condem 9/11 incident but this kind of terrorist action has been going on for quite a while. Sick people kill inocent people just to prove their political and religious point(ETA spain,Crusades,the whole cold war fighting ex:cuba,nicaragua,afganistan,Nigeria,Colombia)

So basically Mayan's profecies i don't think so.

A lot of interesting points have been made throughout this entire thread. For one, I agree that it is incorrect to view the 2012 "end-date" as exactly that. The Mayans certainly did not use it as a timetable for when the earth would come to an end. A couple of people have mentioned that the 2012 date marks a new beginning for the Mayan calendar-in essence, it's a cyclical thing. John Major Jenkins has written extensively on this topic and theorizes that in 2012, we will see a dramatic change in human consciousness. Whereas we are in somewhat of a dark and materialist time, 2012 will bring about a time of unbelievable development and progress by people spiritually and intellectually. His book Galactic Alignment is about how the Mayan people synchronized their calendar and built their pyramids and other important buildings in alignment with the stars. There were three ways of orientation, the most important being-the galactic alignment of which the milky way plays an important part. Jenkins uses Mayan drawings such as stellas to "prove" his point. I'm not certain if he is correct 100% of the time, but nevertheless, it shows that many people take issue with the notion that the Mayans predicted 2012 would be the end of the earth's existence.

To Jenkins and others, the "end-time" will be the end of a stultifying and rather "dark" time that we are in. We may very well experience the end of the earth as we know it, but it will be replaced with a newer consciousness of personal growth, spiritual attainment, and better practices in regards to how we treat the earth and others around us. Given the fact that different epochs of history are known to be unique in terms of historical events and attitudes, I'm very inclined to believe the transformation of consciousness theory in regards to 2012 than I am the doomsday scenario that some believe.

Aristotle pointed it out.

I totally agree with You sublime_serenity75! I recently bagan to notice that people are taking the 'end of the world' thing presented Through the Mayan Calendar to literally.. You put it into a really good perspective! 'The end of the earth as we know it' is refering to the way society and reality is today - Alot of poverty still exists, not everyone has had the opportunity they could have had in life to success, lack of justice, prejudice still exists, greed, war ad power .. all these are what defines the reality - the 'world' which we all live in today... the end of the world (metaphorically speaking) is the death of all these 'dark age' matters .. as the Mayan calendar predicts will end with the birth of a much more positive reality.. one that is not dominated by 'materialism'..

*hums the tune "Its the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine"

Thanks for the kind comments Pinowawa1. I do generally believe that we will see a consciousness explosion, rather than a literal earth explosion, though I'm not entirely sure if Jenkins has it down right 100%. I'm still re-reading his books and making notes. It's very dense and takes more time to soak in for me personally.

Here are some other sites of interest if others are interested

John Major Jenkins's book Maya Cosmogensis 2012

Another book by JMJ- Tzolkin: Perspective and Calendar studies

Carl Johan Calleman also has some great works

The Mayan Calendar and the Transformation of Consciousness

Calleman is a little "out there" for me, but he does have an end note on how to calculate your own Tzolkin birth date and how to figure out what symbols you were born under that would reflect your spiritual energy.

I found the perfect site for this topic! Check this out: http://www.2012.com.au/Site.A.html scroll rite down to the bottom and there is a table of links to the pages which talk about the 'Mayan' in detail!

In 1519 the Aztec empire died
thats the day that Hernando cortez stepped ashore
They completely missed that in all of their predictions
and you know
some people thesedays think that a form of prediction that reliable can be used to judge a culture that didn't even exist at the time of Cortez
So just how good is it
I prefer Nostradamus
at least we know he was on drugs when he wrote most of his crap

that at least is an excuse for being that stupid
dontcha think ?

In 1997 the british meterological service missed a hurricane that was aboutto hit southern england
NOTHING is written in stone
except this

I think it's fair to say that while many would disagree about prophecies and that kind of thing, the overall premise of a transformation of consciousness is something that most people can agree with. I'm not certain if the site mentioned anything about specific prophecies, but I did think they said something about Bush stopping the '04 elections and declaring martial law. Now while we all know this obviously didn't happen, that doesn't mean that there are other things on the site that are equally far-fetched. As a matter of fact, there are some kernels of truth if you look hard enough.

I bet the forums will be bursting january 1st 2013.

Actually it's May 2013 I believe.

Well, perhaps I should take my previous comments about prophecy back. I'm currently reading Carl Johan Calleman's book "The Transformation of Consciousness." It's a lot more in-depth than what you will find in "The Galactic Alignment," especially when it comes to prophecy and predictions. Calleman points out that the Mayans had deities that ruled what is known as the 13 heavens. The odd numbered ones are for the most part female(with a few exceptions) and they reign over creative/artistic improvements generally speaking. The even are male and are known for well.....less advanced things like death and war. The point?-writing is a hallmark of creativity and of a society moving forward. The advancement of writing around the world occurs during odd-numbered deities on the 13 heavens. What follows is a verbatim description in Calleman's book about advances in writing and the odd numbered deity that ruled that given era.



This isn't to say that there are no advancements made during even-numbered years ruled by predominantly male deities. At the same time, it's clear that the Mayans in their cyclical calendar, were able to predict advancements(in this case writing) with the use of their calendar which spells out the overall "habits" and likelihood of what a given age would entail for those who lived during a given time period.

Now, here is where it gets interesting. Not only do the Mayans "predict" writing and other advancements, but they were also able to show what time periods would see a time period of unprecedented spiritual growth. Check out this chart:



So as we move into a post Dec.21st, 2012 world, we may very well see spiritual growth and transformation of consciousness that will replace a materialistic and spiritually deficient world. The Mayans did not necessarily predict certain advancements or of the governing by certain individuals per se, but rather, they identified the time periods where growth or stunted development would occur for humans who happen to live in a given time period. While not specific, this "prediction" does show a person what a given time period will look like for them.

I know I'm a newbi, but I just wanted to chime in here, I was listening to discovery channel radio on my xm radio, anyway they had a small segment on there about how the earth has been slowing down for the last 50 to 60 years that they have been measuring the rotation with any precision, they have had to adjust the atomic clocks by about a second every year or so, but the earth has stoped slowing down over the last three years.

More interesting than any history lesson I ever encountered. There should be more of this sort of discussion in classrooms the world over.

This thread was posted a long time ago, so I don't know if anyone will ever see this anyway. However, I read the thread and wanted to post a point and an idea or two.

Someone mentioned that the Mayan Calendar is based on the cycles of the Moon. This is not correct. The Maya had many different calendars, each of which had a different purpose. The calendar of the Maya that are prophetic and sacred in nature is the Tzolk'in and the Tun a set of integrated calendars. One is (as pointed out earlier) a 260 day calendar, the other a 360 day calendar.

This particular combination of calendars is not based on astronimical cycles - in other words it is not based upon the cyclical movement of physical objects through space. It is a spiritual calendar and the basis upon which the Maya made their predications.

The Maya were no smarter than any other people; they were however, in a specific place geographically on the planet at the time they flourished that leant to their ability to extract meaning no other culture did.

Today, the Maya are the most recent 'ancient' civilization that offer to us today, a calendrical system that continues to astonish modern scientists with it's accuracy. That however - the fact it is indeed a precision timing device - is really not the point of the calendar to us today. The information held within the Mayan calendar is far more important to us now than it was to the Maya. Why? Because what we can learn about where we are right now in the cycles of time.

The Maya understood something we today have become blind to. Time may appear to be comprised of endless repeating cycles and if you go by a astronomically based calendar (such as the Gregorian or the Muslim) you will be blind to the cycle of the evolution of consciousness.

What the Tun and the Tzolk'in can tell us today, is where we are ......precisely......in the cycles of universal creation time. In other words we ARE here for a reason - we DO have a purpose and we have a limited amount of time to fulfill that purpose.

This can be explained in great detail if anyone is interested. Suffice to say, what the Mayan calendar is all about is completely and utterly missed if one looks at the calendar as just another way to mark the beginning and end of a single day....revolution of the Earth around the Sun. That is not what this calendar is marking at all....not even close.

Some things to ponder....


ASJ

www.airstream-indie-radio.com

sorry - I posted twice.

================================

Excellent point!! The termination of one age into another - or the sacred meaning of Hunab Ku. We are about to enter a position in space parallel with the galaxy - and the Great Changes are mainly spiritual. Comes again to that age old question, though -- WHERE did the Mayans get that accurate technology?
Hunab Ku: http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new6.htm

From the Gryphon's Lair

One of my friends believes that the world will end then but im not so sure. I would much rather it just be the end of the recorded Mayan calendar and we could all just go out and buy a new calendar that day.

The Mayans had SOME purpose for ending their calendar when they did. I wonder why scientisits haven't come up with a better explanation........

There is guarded jealousy with the Scientific Community - they feel MOST of the ancient people could not accomplish those things that we would call OOPARTs (out of place artifacts) - i.e. primitive work gangs with loin cloths building a structure like the great pyramid. Shades of Fred Flintstone!
In all seriousness - like hyroglyphics - there is the "public" explanation for meaning, and there is the "need to know" secret meaning that only the "initiated" know of. Like the magical number 13 on the dollar bill.
To admit that they know, and it contradicts the "Steady State" Theory of civilizations, would shed new light on myths like Atlantis, Lemuria - and some others even further back in legend. They cannot re-write thousands of years of history (or can they!?)
There is far too much to delve into for any shedding of light on this.
The Hunab Ku (with the Mayan writ far more eloquent than any college Doctorate in that area) - would quite easy fit into what today would be called Quantum Physics, Worm Holes and "Short Cuts" to other parts of the Universe, know and unknown. The PRECISION of the calendar (Mayan) is enough to make anyone of the Scientific Establishment scratch their heads. NO matter how they may put the "explanations" - there are always gonna be more questions. But basically we cannot deny (with the existing evidence contradicting "Steady State") that some of us would rather cast away the old school books that no longer can be accepted as LAW! Myths like Troy and Ithaca (of recent) have now become real evidence (archeological) - so what of Odysseus and his strange travels?
Of unicorns (where DID that creature come from in idea and visison?) - and other strange mutations that can ONLY be a result of tampering with GENETICS. Impossible? So was cloning at one time -- but what happens when the intent is far removed from good?
Buried under miles of soil are more ruins, you can bet on it. And with that the answers to many questions -- the WHY so much effort is channeled into projects like the calendar.
Sadly - when these ruins are uncovered - there will be a lid of secrecy (like the ruins on Mars, the "city" two miles under the Antarctic Ice - and other taboo subjects) because it DOES NOT FIT THE GRADUAL ASCENSION of CIVILIZATION as were are told.
ALL EVIDENCE gradually points to a UNIVERSAL CONTACT with a SUPERCIVILIZATION (ala Graham Hancock http://www.grahamhancock.com/ ) et al.
Without even mentioning Atlantis - there are more PROS than Cons to this possibility.
The Earth is about four and one half billion years old - yet many would say civilization is only a few thousand years old. The movement of tectonic plates LONG Buried much of what was - and will continue to do so. So have the oceans - and the secrets lay with the great abyssal.
(But just a thought!!) -- CROP CIRCLES fall very close to the "warnings" or "messages" that maybe only the ancients know of - and in our own blind egotism - and right before our noses - is the real meaning.

Anything is possible, but no matter how unlikely, old predictions have a way of coming true to put explanation on theory.

My own question with those who insist upon quoting scripture about "end times" -- I would rather give advice that much of the scripture so quoted (especially the NEW TESTAMENT) is nothing more than a conglomeration of much older, even more ancient codexes that have been so badly misquoted, mistranslated and so twisted out of context that it is hard to reckon anything of value (First Council Of Nicea). It is much easier for me to assume the MAYA (excluding their terrible binges of sacrifice) had much more of a sacred meaning in the "calendar" as we ASSUME it's a calendar (and not some season measuring device including as with much of the Native American cultures [Medicine Wheel, Stonehenge et al]I KNOW OF) -- NOT THE END OF THE WORLD, but a BEGINNING of a NEW AGE of spiritual consiousness that so-called "civilized" man's own ego blocks from anything but temporal measurement - and labels anything of this sort of OOPART as the following: Nonsense, fertility totems, magic prayer wheels, or just plain PRIMITIVE art. .
Again - there is a rare rendition of Hunab Ku - and some of the greater scholars are QUIETLY (why is this so?) taking apart the computer compared parallel with today's Modern Quantum Physics. Book available as valued reference:
http://www.luckyfishart.com/hunabku.html
But one man's opinion is another's reason to debunk.
And so it remains .....
From the Gryphon's Lair

mayan calendar would have related to a sumerian legend or return to their original homeland ('land of marshes')

i have heard too many of these predictions for far to long about far to broad a range of topics to really take them seriously, besides im sure a lot of what the civilization had to say has been misrepresented by modern society.

We'll just have to wait until 2012...I have a bad feeling about this! It wouldn't surprise me if there would be a some giant disaster sticking its head up at 2012, like another giant flood or something more terrible. It almost wiped out our ancestors in the past , they left clues to warn us about some upcoming disaster that is probably gonna wipe us out completely, I simply can't believe that it's all mumbo jumbo they were too smart to tell us a bunch of crap and above all they were so extremely precise about everything, they knew precession, they could make buildings with stone blocks weighing more than 200 cars each, they knew of the 10th planet Nibiru in our solarsystem, they could build monuments whith a precision we can't even match today, they made maps of antarctica which is now under snow for thousands of years caused by earthcrust movement(most certainly the continent where Atlantis is situated) so why shouldn't they be precise about 2012? But like I said before we'll just have to wait.

Can you source this amazing revelation for me?

Also, it is never too long if it's valid.

That won't really be an option V. By the time 2012 is here (an actually the true count ends 2011 - but that's for another posting!) a lot will have taken place between where we are now and where we'll be then.

If anyone thinks things are just going to go merrily along until 2012 rolls around and then suddenly there's this incredible thing that happens - they're missing what's really taking place. This is all happening right now. It's not in the "going to happen stage", or the "it might happen stage". We are in the "it's happening right now stage".

Yes, more is coming that will bring more people to a place of not being able any longer to ignore the shifts. We're in the curl of the wave if you will....




An excellent point JoeBean, but it doesn't mean it's hopeless. The primary reason we today (in modern society) miss it - is because we look at what was gained through intuition, in this case by the Maya, through the eyes of materialism. It's impossible to see what they saw with that point of view. However, if we learn to shift our thinking to a more intuitive perspective it is possible to uncover the mystery - then it's no longer a mystery, eh?



Some scientists have 3for3 - it just depends on where you're looking and who's doing the talking.

The Maya based their system on a 13:20 ratio. This means it had a start date and end date based on that ratio. There is a reason for that! The Maya were NOT counting the revolutions of the Earth around the Sun. They were measuring, through time, something a whole lot bigger!

For instance, when most people think of our human history, the wars, the rise and fall of nations, the advent and inventions and various things that have taken place that have meant huge shifts for us as a species down through time - for the most part it all appears to be pretty random, almost chaotic. It really doesn't make sense if you don't know what to look for.

In the Mayan calendrical system there are a series of time cycles;

hablatun = 20(7) tun = 1.26 billioin years
alautun =20(6) tun = 63.1 million years
kinchiltun =20(5) tun = 3.15 million years
kalabtun = 20(4) tun = 158,000 years
piktun = 20(3) tun = 7,900 years
baktun = 20(2) tun = 394 years
katun = 20 tun = 19.7 years
tun = 360 days

These cycles of time move not in a repeating pattern in the Mayan calendar but rather in a sacred spiral of holy time.

With this information it is possible to begin to see a pattern of movement of time - a pattern of evolution if you will. I can actually show this to you in a visual 2D form. In building up this pattern relying on dates from the stele at the sacred sites of the Maya ....then moving backward and forward through time, it's possible to see how historical events begin to ALSO fall into a pattern...the pattern the Maya lay out in the calendar.

Now...with this information in hand, there is something else pretty astonishing, scientific AND powerful at the same time. The Maya are the ONLY civilization on the planet (that we have access to in a tangible sense) that had an actual timeline with regard to their prophecy. NO OTHER culture, philosophy, 'seer', predictor, or system has this.

Nostradamus, The Bible Code, The Tarot, Kabala, Edgar Casey's work and on and on all systems, people or philosophies that portend prophetic or to say, "here's what's to come", are NOT based on a quantifiable timeline; i.e. dates. All of it can be interpreted as the interpreter sees fit. The "prophecies" could appear to be in any point in time given the proper perspective.

BUT not so with the Mayan calendar! A date 3,000 years ago is the same as a date is today. A date is a date. And we have the astronomical movements to give us even more data to work with. A date is a tangible measuring unit we can use to unravel the mystery!

The Mayan calendar is the single and ONLY instrument that stands out on the planet in its advancement and scientifically provable accuracy that actually gives us a precision TIMELINE!. This is truly extraordinary. The key is understanding the timeline.

We do have many answers to what this timeline means. I can give you a perfect example of this....

By the way not yelling, just emphasizing with the capitols - don't take offense *

Ok example.

Each underworld in the Mayan cosmology is built on the one before it.

There are a total of 9 Underworlds and 13 Heavens throughout the entire calendrical system.

However, there is a final Great Cycle (which we're in now) that is comprised of the final 13 Baktuns - which amounts to 394 x 13 = 5,125 years. In this Great Cycle, there is a total of 187,200 days. There are 2,205 days remaining in this cycle to reach the last day of the last baktun (remember a baktun is 394 years long).

Now, in each ascending Underworld time speeds up by 20 times.

Out of the 9 Underworlds we are now in the second to last Underworld - or the 8th Underworld. AND we're in the 13th Heaven or the final Heaven (cycle of time) - in fact, literally in the last days of the last day!

In the preceding Underworld to the one we're in now, the time span between each of the Heavens was 19.7 years - or 1 Katun each. The entire 7th Underworld took 394 years to complete. Each Heaven (or cycle of time) was 19.7 years long. 13 x19.7 = 394.

We moved into the 8th Underworld in January 1999. When that happened, the time span of each of the 13 Heavens became 20 TIMES FASTER!

In this Underworld the shift between Heavens only takes 360 DAYS! In other words, all the events that used to take place in a 19.7 year period of time are now happening in a 360 day period of time.

Does it feel to you like time is speeding up? Do you feel the overwhelm of trying to keep up and plan, only to find yourself frustrated with how quickly everything changes? Only the Mayan calendar seems to be offering an answer to why!

There's a lot more to this than meets the eye....a whole lot more. More to think about...

ASJ

AiRadio Pod Casting!
"Learning to TUN to the tune of Life itself"

Griphon, I just had to comment quickly on what you said because it is really well said!

You are right. The Mayan calendar is something much more than a temporal measurement of time - it's much more.

Here's the thing that can and does become a detractor. You are again right that there was a period wherein the Maya engaged in ritual sacrifice. Their reasons for doing so are theirs and since there are no classical period Maya to ask we get to wonder. We today have such things, we just don't call it the same thing. Countries ritually sacrifice their young in wars that make no sense. It really isn't much different, we just call it something different.

The point is however, the Mayan are not really the point - the calendrical system they demonstrated in a tangible form is.

The Maya civilization is not "special" in the sense of being superior to any other culture anywhere in the world. They also celebrated a dualistic religion with many gods and archetypes. This was common for the baktun within which they lived. The dualistic religions began to fail all over the world during the post-classical period. They were not alone in the fall of their civilization. Every civilization that held a dualistic religion began to fall apart at the same time. Interestingly enough, the classical period Maya saw this coming and predicted the fall of their own civilization with pin point accuracy.

What really makes what they have to offer us to today have real meaning, is that this calendrical system is relevant to the whole world - to all of humanity because of what it is keeping track of. It isn't a localized tradition even though for them (at that time) it most certainly was!

The calendar is actually much more critical for us today than it was for the Maya....

ASJ

Airstream Indie Radio

The EPIC OF GILGAMESH http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/
pretty much says it all about being a forerunner of Odysseus. But there appears secret (again) meanings in his "tasks". The Sumerian Epic of CREATION - filled with parables that consider the 'writer' somewhat of a scholar in an out of place time! So it is with the "Battle of Tiamat and Marduk" - which explains HOW the asteroid belt came about between Mars and Jupitor. Thus: http://www.crystalinks.com/babyloniancreation.html (and all else that makes reference). NASA fills that God-Like computer (of theirs) with scenarios NEVER MENTIONED or even considered as ORTHODOX. That SOMEHOW man was FAR MORE CIVILIZED almost twelve thousand (read me 12,000) years prior -- about the time of the last Polar Fluxuation (if you will!). Or in plain English - the demise of Atlantis and the FALL of the LAST SUN (as the Mayas would put it); but I feel measured to TODAY. So many calendars and totems - and whatevers .... ALL from a frantic and quite civilized WORLD IN DIRECT COMMUNICATION - making sure they know when the NEXT geological event will occur - but serious measurement and calculation by a worldly conference (like the UN of today). To provide a COMMON solution to a COMMON problem. HOW TO REBUILD CIVILIZATION AFTER THE LAST CATACLYSM. Edgar Cayce mentioned Atlantis in many of his readings (and I worked there in Virginia Beach from 89-90). But there were references to an even far more ANCIENT Civilization. Do we accept Cayce's Readings as fact? Of course not!! We have to be pragmatists!! We have to ASSUME NO ONE was more advanced than we are!! [Tongue in cheek!]

So the MILLION (or so) year old "ruins" on Mars are a WARNING to us -- that when we are in a PARALLEL ORBIT in the Galaxy -- we are also in a debris field - filled with boulders and rocks (asteroids) of immense size - ready to slam into us.
(N.E.A.T. - http://neat.jpl.nasa.gov/ )
And then .... when we go above (to a SPIRITUAL POSITIVE) -of- that parallel orbit .. there will be changes. [Hunab Ku again]. The likes of which I cannot explain in three dimensional terms. As it will probably occur 2012 (circa 2011) depending upon WHICH calendar we base this on. The BELT OF ORION matches Giza (and the Great Pyramid) - it also parallels the
CYDONIA ( http://www.mt.net/~watcher/mars.html ) complex on Mars.

But was it not written in Genesis "Be fruitful and multiply - and REPLENISH the Earth"?

So many people FORGET what REPLENISH means! It means REPOPULATE!!! So Adam and Eve had ancestors (one who married Cain) - and it means there was civilization PRIOR to recorded (albeit Biblical) history. But - once again - this opens a whole NEW can of worms (if you will).

Mr Roswell Man -- "RETURN" means as such -- as Mr. Sitchen [ http://www.sitchin.com/ ]
provides many answers to those LONELY GODS who longed to return to number 12 [planet], but could not ... for they were forbidden due to the interference with a race we would call ..... Adamus [man of the RED CLAY]. Slaves made from a primitive race of Earth -- who eventually revolted because they gained INTELLIGENCE! The GREAT FALL of man was nothing more than the "GODS" coming to Earth and 'changing mankind' [no offense to P.C. of course].

As an aside -- there are a few of you who have written me (on the back channels) -- I will respond as soon as I can - as it has been hectic here (our complex has had its share of gang related violence) - and I have been far more than busy!!! So please bear with me and know I will burn the midnight oil with ya!!

Mr. 'Airstream' -- you have my WORD we will confer!! And thanks!!

Ah yes....Gryphon, I shall hold you to that!

And - eh-hmm, make that Ms. Airtream...*chuckles*

Until then!

ASJ

Well i don't agree to one of the Poster's predictions i-e.
Fact: There have been stories in the bible about the 40-day flood that ended the world, stories that the world ended and humans would rise again. You think this will happen in 2012?

Well such and incident took place a thousands of yrs ago when there was the time of Prophet of GOD, that is NOAH (A.S) well the People Refused to accept the Religion of Allah (God) and Treated Noah as worst as Animals for that reason Allah said to Noah that build a Large Ship as there is soon going to be a Gigantic Flood for '40 Days' and after a few days Noah took a pair (Male , Female ) of animals and his Followers and after 40 days the flood came to an end it is said that the Flood hundred times higher then mount Everest...

Hit me bak;
Zeeshan ahmed, Pakistan

[quote name='airstreamjock' date='Oct 14 2005, 03:34 PM' post='887254']
That won't really be an option V. By the time 2012 is here (an actually the true count ends 2011 - but that's for another posting!) a lot will have taken place between where we are now and where we'll be then.

If anyone thinks things are just going to go merrily along until 2012 rolls around and then suddenly there's this incredible thing that happens - they're missing what's really taking place. This is all happening right now. It's not in the "going to happen stage", or the "it might happen stage". We are in the "it's happening right now stage".



I agree with you. It is a terrifying thought, but I am also curious what is gonna happen in the end...

Well Yes it is Good...
Well Im s Muslim and According 2 our Religion i-e Islam the Signs of Doomsday are;
This is a brief summary of the signs of the Day of Judgement. There are many books, articles, cassettes, etc., which discuss these in greater detail. These Signs are roughly listed in a chronological order, although this order is not necessarily precise, especially for those to happen in the future.

May Allah enable us to recognize and heed the Signs, and strengthen us in the times of tribulation. "Are they waiting for anything except the Hour, to come to them suddenly? But its Signs have already come!" (Qur'an; Surah Muhammad 47:18)

Past:

1. Splitting of the Moon.

2. Death of the Prophet Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.

3. A form of death which will kill thousands of Muslims. (Understood to refer to the plague of Amwas during the caliphate of 'Umar ibn al-Khattab.)

4. A major fighting in Madinah (understood to refer to the battle of al-Harrah during the caliphate of Yazeed, 63 AH).

5. The Muslim conquest of Jerusalem.

6. The Muslim conquest of Constantinople.

7. Two large groups of Muslims will fight in war.

8. A war between the Muslims and a reddish people with small eyes, wearing sandals made of hair (understood to refer to the Mongol Tatar invasion of the Islamic lands.)

9. A peace agreement between the Muslims and non-Muslims from the yellow race (Chinese, Mongols, etc.)

10. Thirty impostors (Dajjaal) will appear, each thinking he is a prophet.

Present:

11. Naked, destitute, barefoot shepherds will compete in building high buildings.

12. The slave-woman will give birth to her master or mistress.

13. A fitnah (tribulation) which will enter every Arab household.

14. Knowledge will be taken away (by the death of people of knowledge), and ignorance will prevail.

15. Wine (intoxicants, alcohol) will be drunk in great quantities.

16. Illegal sexual intercourse will become widespread.

17. Earthquakes will increase.

18. Time will pass more quickly.

19. Tribulations will prevail.

20. Bloodshed will increase.

21. A man will pass by the grave of another and wish he was in the latter's place.

22. Trustworthiness will be lost, i.e. when authority is given to those who do not deserve it.

23. People will gather for prayer, but will be unable to find an imam to lead them.

Future:

24. The number of men will decrease, whilst the number of women will increase, until for every man there are 50 women.

25. The Euphrates will reveal a treasure of gold, and many will die fighting over it, each one hoping to be the one who gains the treasure.

26. The Romans (Europeans) will come to a place called A'maq or Wabiq, and an army of the best people will go forth from Madinah to face them

27. The Muslim conquest of Rome.

28. The Mahdi (guided one) will appear, and be the Imam of the Muslims.

29. Jesus Christ will descend in Damascus, and pray behind the Mahdi.

30. Jesus will break the cross and kill the swine, i.e. destroy the false Christianity.

31. The Antichrist (al-masih al-Dajjaal, the false Christ) will appear, with all his tools of deception, and be an immense trial. He will be followed by 70,000 Jews from Isfahan (present-day Iran).

32. The appearance of Ya'juj and Ma'juj (Gog and Magog), and the associated tribulations.

33. The emergence of the Beast from the Earth, who will speak to the people, telling them they did not believe with certainty in the Divine Signs.

34. A major war between the Muslims (including Jews and Christians who truly believe in Jesus after his return) led by the Imam Mahdi, and the Jews plus other non-Muslims led by the Antichrist.

35. Jesus will kill the Antichrist at the gate of Ludd (Lod in present-day Israel, site of an airport and a major Israeli military base).

36. A time of great peace and serenity during and after the remaining lifetime of Jesus.

37. Wealth will come so abundant that it will become difficult to find someone to accept charity.

38. Arabia will become a land of gardens and rivers.

39. Society will then decay.

40. The buttocks of the women of the tribe of Daws will again sway in circumambulating (tawaf) around the idol Dhul-Khulasah.

41. A great fire in the Hijaz, seen by the inhabitants of Busra.

42. Three major armies will sink into the earth: one in the east, one in the west, one in Arabia.

43. An Abyssinian leader with thin shins will destroy the Ka'bah.

44. The huge cloud of smoke.

45. The sun will rise from the west (its place of setting).

46. A gentle wind which will take the souls of the believers.

47. There is no one left on the earth saying, "Allah, Allah" or "There is no god except Allah."

48. Eventually the Day of Judgment is established upon the worst of the people, who copulate like donkeys in public.

49. The blowing in the Trumpet by the Angel Israfil, upon which everyone will faint except as Allah wills.

50. The second blowing in the Trumpet, upon which everyone will be resurrected.

OOPS!! Mea Culpa!! Will get that right next time, and thanks -- as me own current "significant other" thinks HIGHLY of a GROUP chat sometime ... but we will stay with the "back channels" for the time being!

And on to preparations for a Monday [sigh!] and then back to temporal reality!

We've also been looking to "hit the road" and .... we'll just get away!!! Sheesh are we ever!!!

[As an aside - I have dabbled little with the Quantum basis of Physics UNLESS it ties in with ancient codexes (or it appears to). The messages of the ancients WERE for US of today - kind of like a "time capsule"/ and perhaps they KNEW what they were doing -- or just doing their work for the benefit of "others" who knew the WHY and the PURPOSE.
AND .... well that will be later .....]

MY FRIEND ... in Universal Faith to all .. let it be known that the GREAT FLOOD was written WORLD WIDE and NOT to any guarded and jealously preserved writ. The ancient Sumerians, Native Americans, and countless OTHER long vanished cultures and civilizations produced codexes with this ... traumatic experience. NO ONE has the 'COPYRIGHTS" to exclusion with this. I am saddened that religion comes once again into this discussion, when there are so many flames produced by WHO's RIGHT - and WHO's NONBELIEVER. Let us assume a bit of COMMON SENSE and NOT GO INTO BIBLICAL or other SACRED WRIT to justify what would amount to an impossible dialect of ....passion.

We need to OPEN OUR MINDS and KNOW that there are many questions that need answering, many thoughts regarded with RESPECT .... and many theories NOT ALWAYS answered by non-dielectic ramblings of blind hysteria.

Has one ALSO considered that there may be an answer to ALL our questions!? Right in front of us!? Perhaps we should consider a THIRD ALTERNATIVE THEORY that addresses Creationism and Evolution? Perhaps we were "seeded" from elsewhere? Am I to be condemned to die a thousand deaths (which I have already in my endless incarnations) -- because I say this?? Noah, yes! A guarded treasure of Koran [Quran] - how well I know in my RESPECTFUL STUDIES. But BLIND HATRED is NOT on the verses I have read and studied. Sadly so with Christians. IT IS TIME TO STOP and gather a COMMON CURIOSITY and find out that maybe ALL OF US WERE AND ARE WRONG!!

Parables litter history - as well as MYTH. We are finding ALL TOO QUICKLY that what we were told -- is NOT necessarily true. NOW PROVE ME WRONG with YOUR OWN words and NOT the words you may take to shelter. With my DEEPEST RESPECT -- but we have a forum here that is highly stimulating both intellectually and by being OPEN to ideas (of ALL TYPES) -- and subject to condition of deep restraint.

RELIGION has bastardized history and human self-worth for far too long. Many people are killed in the name of "God". And this is NOT just today. I am saddened by what I see now.
The Christian "Missionaries" just as faultful - and once again it needs to stop. I witnessed (in my stay in Jerusalem and Palestine - YES there too ) TWO CHILDREN of opposite sides of a barrier - playing together UNTIL their respective adults called tham in and said: "WE DO NOT PLAY WITH THEIR KIND". It goes on ... and it NEEDS TO STOP!

Fire away guy!!??? I have a LOT of things under my own belt that would put many of the "self-righteous" to task.

Measured doses of VERSE and CHAPTER do nothing to allow us to THINK FREELY and KNOW that the answers are NOT in BOOKS ALONE - no matter how SACRED we consider them ... we ONLY need to look to those who TRANSLATED this and DECIDED as to what should be written -- and what NOT! The First Council of Nicea is one example. God's RULE NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION -- applies when you see INNOCENT CHILDREN HURT by so-called religious zealousness -- NO MATTER WHAT THE BELIEF. Judge the MORAL results of this for yourself and tell yourself MY SOUL SAYS THIS IS NOT TO BE!

The Mayas did their sacrifices because the PRIESTS needed to keep employed, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. If there is no SIN then we need no Priests. No disease and we need NO Doctors. No crime and we need NO LAWYERS.

I TREASURE deeply my FREEDOM to be myself and NOT a slave to any belief or creed, or ethnic uniqueness. I have traveled the world and have met many people (Palestinians included). NEVER ONCE did those families I met express such a hatred as I have seen for those locked up in FANATICISM. They love and guard deeply their children - just as anyone else would. They take care of their families, just as anyone else would -- AND I have even seen the Lakota Sioux and others here in our own country -- GUARD THEIR FAMILIES. Why? BECAUSE OF MORAL OBLIGATION. Do we say it is GOD'S LAW to destroy these people? I say this to the so-called Christians as well because their past is also littered with --- terrible deaths in the name of .... well you know.

I am sorry I had to deviate from my NORMAL NEUTRAL position on the above subjects -- but I think we ALL need to say it is TIME TO STOP!!!

NOAH KNEW that what was then is also now ..... and if NOAH HEARD GOD say "KILL THIS MAN" then he would understand "God's LAW says NOT to slay another". WHAT GOD would have us slay a fellow human??

And then I say --- HOW did this pattern of discussion get to this anyway??? My dear friend -- welcome to the "ROAST"! I hope no offense taken as we are an OPEN forum. BY all means I am NOT FIRING -- just shooting ... er ah ... blanks!!

From the Gryphon's Lair

AS AN ASIDE - P L E A S E let me assure you I DEEPLY RESPECT your point of view (studies or otherwise) -- I am just tired of seeing so much going on in this world .. and the reasons are NOT DIVINE.

Hi Gryphon - once again,

I couldn't find a short line or two to quote from your post just above but wanted to comment on it and your ideas within it.

You're right across the board about what 'religion' has produced in the name of God. Please, allow me to make this next comment from a new perspective on this subject - which is what you seem to be calling for, yes?

Religion has produced what is has produced because it could not produce anything else. Religion has done it's job extremely well. Yes, it did have a job to do as backwards as that may seem.

There was a time when the kind of thinking you refer to in your post was a step forward. It isn't now, but then it was. A time when that kind of thinking was proper and justified and dare I say...actually progressive for it's time. Not for ours, but for theirs.

Here's the point. IF THE MAYA are right - and Creation defines our consciousness in it's progress toward the evolution of the same (consciousness), then we are on the very cusp of an unprecedented shift. BUT, there are still a few steps to take. And again IF THE MAYA were right, and the deadline for that evolution of consciousness is a mere 6 years into our future, then we have a LOT to do in a short amount of time.

We are not in the past, nor are we in the future, no matter how many people live their lives in one or the other. We ARE in the now. And in the "now" there is a drum-beat pushing us all toward something. Everyone can feel it regardless if they admit it or not.

Consciousness is moving forward. It will do this with or without us. If people choose not to move forward they'll have problems. That is an understatement.

What we, as a species, interpret as one thing may turn out to be another. For example: the return of Christ, so heavily preached in the Christian community may not be the return of an individual at all - but rather a Christ Consciousness to which we ALL must rise.

When these things you mentioned (like your trip to the Middle East) are in your face, it's very easy to fall into the short-sightedness of emotion. These things that are past are indeed past. These things that people hold to for comfort are not really there - it is just an ideal that will crumble but the beautifuul thing is we can wake up from these dreams and see more clearly. Even if we need a little help to do so....

We are actually getting a lot of help from Creation right now - far more than we are yet aware of. As these next few years come, especially the next 2-3 years, consciousness will continue to move forward and we will continue to awaken. As individuals AND as a collective. It will happen. That is not a promise, it is a guarantee.

Hurricane Katrina - as difficult to watch (day-after-day) as that was, woke a lot of people UP to things they weren't thinking about before. Earthquakes all over the world are shaking things up.

Rather than looking at these as "warnings" - I honestly think they are invitations telling us we can make a difference if we choose to ACT. THAT is what is truly exciting. We are not victims of the evolution of Consciousness!! We have been always invited to be partners in it. What an idea!

ASJ

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Your're RIGHT ON THE MONEY WITH MY OWN THOUGHTS as well!!
I was readily disturbed by a lot of things - like standing by helplessly while of lot of the people of the world around seem to be going mad. NOT so much natural disasters, but how people RESPOND to things caused by them. The riots in Toledo were NOT caused by natural disaster, and sadly proved a certain hate group correct in their assumed posturing for results. What I saw were people in the streets NOT ANGRY - but laughing like it was all a party. This is far from what P.C. usually excuses for this type of behavior.
Now I see in the news that the refugees in Florida (from Katrina) - are taking "handout" money [TAXPAYERS]: http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional...&format=&page=1
and jaunting down to the local booze outlet. It is things like this and a lot of other things that makes me want to go back to those times when the world was a hell of a lot bigger!! There IS SOMETHING MORE to all this - almost like a POLARIZING effect. Some of us understanding the Consciousness all around - and others falling further down the material ladder rungs - and perishing in a pit of chaos.

Sorry for not responding of late - but been busy with a lot of local things here. My postings are usually spontaneous and I RARELY read them (just scan for obvious errors) - and then post. If I were to read them I probably would not bother to post some of the things I wrote because my mood changes so quickly sometimes!!

More later though!
Russ
(and more on a personal note as well) .... thanks for the refreshing posting!

Hi Gryphon,



A pleasure I can assure you! It lifts one's own heart and mind to think on the real possibilities and not just the obvious ones!

It's good you don't 'overthink' you're posts by the way! I, for one, like them that way.

Speaking of busy I know the feeling!

Ok, going to leave it here for the moment. So much more to yak about though...soon (but not yet)

ASJ