The Haab was the Maya solar calendar made up of eighteen months of twenty days each and a five day month at the end of the year known as Wayeb or Uayeb that was called "the nameless days." Victoria Bricker estimates that the Haab was first used around 550 BC with the starting point of the winter solstice. The Haab was the foundation of the agrarian calendar and the month names are based on the seasons and agricultural events. For example the thirteenth month, Mac, may refer to the end of the rainy season and the fourteenth month, Kankin, may refer to ripe crops in the fall.

In Yucatec Maya, the eighteen months had the following names:

Pop
Uo
Zip
Zotz
Tzec
Xul
Yaxkin
Mol
Chen
Yax
Zac
Ceh
Mac
Kankin
Muan
Pax
Kayab
Cumku
Each day was identified by a day number within the month followed by the name of the month. Day numbers began with a glyph translated as the "seating of" a named month, which is usually regarded as day 0 of that month, although a minority treat it as day 20 of the month preceding the named month. In the latter case, the seating of Pop is day 5 of Wayeb. For the majority, the first day of the year was 0 Pop (the seating of Pop). This was followed by 1 Pop, 2 Pop ... 19 Pop, 0 Uo, 1 Uo and so on.

As a calendar for keeping track of the seasons, the Haab was crude and inaccurate, since it treated the year as having 365 days, and ignored the extra quarter day (approximately) in the actual tropical year. This meant that the seasons moved with respect to the calendar year by a quarter day each year, so that the calendar months named after particular seasons no longer corresponded to these seasons after a few centuries. The Haab is equivalent to the wandering 365-day year of the ancient Egyptians. Some argue that the Maya knew about and compensated for the quarter day error, even though their calendar did not include anything comparable to a leap year, a method first implemented by the Romans.

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Wayeb
The five nameless days at the end of the calendar called Wayeb were thought to be a dangerous time. Lynn Foster writes that, "During Wayeb, portals between the mortal realm and the Underworld dissolved. No boundaries prevented the ill-intending deities from causing disasters." To ward off these evil spirits, the Maya had customs and rituals they practiced during Wayeb. For example, people avoided leaving their houses or washing or combing their hair.

[edit]
Calendar Round
Neither the Tzolkin nor the Haab system numbered the years. The combination of a Tzolkin date and a Haab date was enough to identify a date to most people's satisfaction, as such a combination didn't occur again for another 52 years.

Because the two calendars were based on 260 days and 365 days respectively, the whole cycle would repeat itself every 52 Haab years exactly. This period was known as a Calendar Round. The end of the Calendar Round was a period of unrest and bad luck among the Maya, as they waited in expectation to see if the gods would grant them another cycle of 52 years.

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Long Count
Since Calendar Round dates can only distinguish within 18980 days, equivalent to around 52 solar years, the cycle repeats roughly once each lifetime, and thus, a much more refined method of dating was needed if their history was to be recorded accurately.

The Long Count employs the use of number series, roughly base 20 and is constructed by counting whole number of days alone. The Mayan name for a day was kin; twenty of these kins are known as a uinal; eighteen uinals make one tun; twenty tuns are known as a katun, twenty katuns make a baktun. (Four higher order cycles but rarely used are known as Pictun, Calabtun, Kinchiltun, and Alautun.)

Table of Long Count units Days Long Count periods Long Count Solar years Tuns
1 = 1 Kin
20 = 20 Kin = 1 Uinal
360 = 18 Uinal = 1 Tun ~ 1 1
7 200 = 20 Tun = 1 Katun ~ 20 20
144 000 = 20 Katun = 1 Bactun ~ 395 400

The Long Count started at 13.0.0.0.0 on Julian day 584283 (3114 BC August 11 in the proleptic Gregorian calendar, or 3114 BC September 6 in the proleptic Julian calendar) according to the "Goodman, Martinez-Hernandez, Thompson" correlation (nicknamed "GMT"), the most widely accepted correlation between the Maya and Gregorian calendar. The baktuns progress 13, 1, 2, ..., 12. Because of this progression, many start the Long Count at 0.0.0.0.0 rather than 13.0.0.0.0, even though the Maya glyph for their epoch literally means "the completion of 13 baktuns". This cycle is 1,872,000 days in length, terminating on the Winter Solstice of 2012 (December 21, Gregorian) and is designated 13.0.0.0.0, since the Maya believed that time is periodic. Another correlation sometimes used, that of Lounsbury, correlates the start-day to JD 584285 (3114 BC August 13 (Gregorian) = 3114 BC September 8 (Julian) ) and the terminal date to 2012 December 23 (Gregorian).

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Calculating Long Count dates
Long count dates list number of the highest order period first (Baktun) and then the number of each successively smaller order periods until the number of days (kin) are listed. Then the Calendar Round date is given.

A typical Calendar Round date is 9.12.2.0.16 5 Cib 14 Yaxkin. One can check whether this date is correct by the following calculation.

It is perhaps easier to find out how many days there are since 4 Ahau 8 Cumhu, and show how the date 5 Cib 14 Yaxkin is derived.

9 × 144000 = 1296000
12 × 7200 = 86400
2 × 360 = 720
0 × 20 = 0
16 × 1 = 16
Total days = 1383136 kin
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Calculating the Tzolkin date portion
The Tzolkin date is counted forward from 4 Ahau. To calculate the numerical portion of the Tzolkin date, we must add 4 to the total number of days given by the date, and then divide total number of days by 13.

(4 + 1383136) / 13 = 106395 and 5/13
This means that 106395 complete 13 day cycles have been completed, and the numerical portion of the Tzolkin date is 5.

To calculate the day, we divide the total number of days in the long count by 20 since there are twenty day names.

1383136 / 20 = 69156 and (16/20)
This means 16 day names must be counted from Ahau. This gives Cib. Therefore, the Tzolkin date is 5 Cib.

[edit]
Calculating the Haab date portion
The Haab date 8 Cumhu is the ninth day of the eighteenth month. Since there are twenty days per month, there are eleven days remaining in Cumhu. The nineteeth and last month of the Haab year contains only five days, there are sixteen days until the end of the Haab year.

If we subtract 16 days from the total, we can then find how many complete Haab years are contained.

1383136 - 16 = 1383120
Dividing by 365, we have

1383120 / 365 = 3789 and (135/365)
Therefore, 3789 complete Haab have passed, with 135 days into the new Haab.

We then find which month the day is in. Dividing the remainder 135 days by 20, we have six complete months, plus 15 remainder days. So, the date in the Haab lies in the seventh month, which is Yaxkin. The fifteenth day of Yaxkin is 14, thus the Haab date is 14 Yaxkin.

So the date of the long count date 9.12.2.0.16 5 Cib 14 Yaxkin is confirmed.

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End of the world?
The turn of the great cycle is conjectured to have been of great significance to the Maya, but does not necessarily mark the end of the world. According to the Popol Vuh, a sacred book of the Maya, they were living in the fourth world. The Popol Vuh describes the first three worlds that the gods failed in making and the creation of the successful fourth world where men were placed. The Maya believed that the fourth world would end in catastrophe and the fifth and final world would be created that would signal the end of mankind.

The last creation ended on a long count of 13.0.0.0.0. Another 13.0.0.0.0 will occur on December 21, 2012, and it has been discussed in many New Age articles and books that this will be the end of this creation or something else entirely. However, the Maya abbreviated their long counts to just the last five vigesimal places. There were an infinitely larger number of units that were usually not shown. When the larger units were shown (notably on a monument from Coba), it is expressed as 13.13.13.13.13.13.13.0.0.0.0, where the larger units are obviously supposed to be 13s in all larger places. In this age we are only approaching 0.0.0.0.0.0.13.0.0.0.0, and the larger places are nowhere near the 13s that would match the end of the last creation.

This is confirmed by a date from Palenque, which projects forward in time to 1.0.0.0.0.0, which will occur on October 13, 4772. The Classic Period Maya obviously did not believe that the end of this age would occur in 2012. There will be a Baktun ending in 2012, a significant event being the end of a 400 year period, but not the end of the age.

Hope this help as apposed to the rampant idle speculation

Given a starting date for the latest calendar cycle of 3114BC (which is the only reason it ends in 2012 - the end date is of no importance whatsoever, it's why it started in 3114BC that we should be addressing) we have to ask ourselves why the Mayans thought their ancestors came from a land of reeds or marshes. Especially since in 3114BC only one major civilisation existed in an place that might well be described as such

As with the Aztecs who predicted Quetzalcoatl would come to them and end their empire in the form of a caucasion male, noteable bearded[somethign completely alien to them at the time]. Early Judaic sects band astronomy so no man could discover the future life of another man. Odd thign to do that, i mean astronomy of all things eh, stars eh?, connection uh oh.

PLO - The Mayan calendar is not based on astrological events. That is one of the greatest misconceptions about it. It is based on something entirely different.

The HAAB is indeed based on the solar year. It was used by the city states for the purpose of taxation, which was of course based on the harvest (can't tax without a harvest).

You don't mention where you got your information but the Mayans did actually have a more accurate counting of the solar year than we have today. They came within .002 of of the exact solar year today, which during their time was probably perfectly accurate. Where are you quoting from on your points about the HAAB.

Also, the HAAB was not/is not used in connection with the Tzolkin. It was a relatively unimportant calendar to the Maya on a daily basis. Again, only used by the city states.

The HAAB has very little if anything to tell us today - it is relatively as useless, or rather unimportant, as the Gregorian.

The two calendar rounds used together to form the sacred/prophetic calendar of the Maya are the Tzolkin and the Tun. The Tun is 360 days, the Tzolkin a 260 day calendar round.

On the point about the return of Quetzalcoatl, you must take into account the whole of meso-america was integrated throughout the entire lands. This included the Maya, Aztecs (or less commonly known as Mexicas), Zapotecs, Mixtecs, Toltecs and Teotihuacanos.

While the Aztecs borrowed from the Mayans liberally, they did not accurately re-produce the calendar. Many things in the Aztec calendar are incorrect and blatantly wrong. The Aztecs were the ones first destroyed by Cortez. It then spread from there as Europe came into the lands. So to completely discount the Mayan calendar based on a very 'iffy' reprsentation of how the whole landing of Cortez is viewed, is a mistake and mis-guided.

Finally, the Long Count dates and logic you use here is again based (it appears) on astrological events and an unclear understanding of the whole timeline the Mayans were interested in, which again (astrological events) is not what the Mayan calendar is all about. If the Mayan calendar were based strictly on astrological events then it would really have no special meaning at all. You'd be better off reading the astrology report in your local newspaper.

The movement of physical objects through space tells us NOTHING about Creation or evolution - it cannot. It is physical system and the basis for materialistic thinking.

The Mayan calendar is a spiritual-based-tuned calendar BUT interpolates into a precise timeline (of which it is the only one we have available to us today from anywhere on the planet), to literally see what the evolution of consciousness - or Creation looks like! This is not only extraordinary it's revolutionary!

We can - with the Mayan calendar in hand - begin to get a clear and real picture of the evolution of EVERYTHING that exists!!

You see PLO, this calendar is about something a whole lot BIGGER than the Earth revolving around our little sun!

Logic cannot lead one to a full and complete understanding of the Mayan calendar - it simply isn't possible. This calendar is about something far bigger than logic - YET, at the same time, empirical proof exists to show what this calendar is all about!

Why archaelogists have failed to get more out of the Mayan calendar than they did - in the past, and scientists of other disciplines - is because they approached the calendar as if our knowledge and understanding of all things (due to our technological advancements today) are superior to that of an ancient 'stone-age' people. We assume we are right and they are wrong GOING IN!

I propose to you PLO that is the other way around!

Finally (for this post), you think this is not the end of anything. That we're thousands of years away from any signficant shift. Ok. You can of course hold any view you choose. You elude to the idea that this upcoming date when the Mayan calendar ends has no significant meaning.

Hmmm....I'll check back with you on that over the next 18 months.

Why does it all always boil down to that "an end of something" means everything is going to be destroyed? Why do we jump to such conclusions? Something is ending - but what? Something IS going to change - but what? We're not asking the rights QUESTIONS! Or, we're assuming we already know everything and therefore blind ourselves to answers before we even start!

Most people are terrified of what the end of this calendar means. Rightfully so! And here's why! People DO NOT GET that PEOPLE have a part to play in this!! Human beings have a part to play! We ARE NOT victims of time - or of Creation. We are PARTNERS! That is what the Mayan calendar is yelling loud and clear to all of us ....if we will only listen!

We have the ability to CREATE a different reality than we're creating right now. So many people are content and comfortable with living their lives the way they are TOLD to live, by the authorities they have given away their power to! That time is coming to a close. Transferring one's responsibility to being a part of this process will not be possible as these days march foward to the end of this calendar. People will have to wake up and that part - yes - may not be that comfortable. But once you WAKE UP! you can get on with the task of being what you came here to be!

That 'fear' is at the root of why people aren't getting a closer look at the Mayan calendar. Bury one's head in the sand - maybe it will go away.

Fear blinds.

The Mayan calendar points to an end of 'something' - what that is has been long misunderstood.

What do you think would be ending PLO?

Think about it.

Why would a calendar that has been counting time for 16.4 billion years just end? Is it to start all over again? If that is the case, toss the whole calendar out the window - it means nothing.

Our world, us and everything that exists everywhere is not in an endless repetitious cycle of ground-hog days. If that's true then putting a bullet through one's head makes more sense than previously thought!

Not for one singlular second does it make intuitive sense to me that what we are, what this world is, what everything that exists is all about, is a never-ending, materialist repetitive cycle. Not for one second. That is to assume matter primary to spirit. That is the basis of the Gregorian calendar - an insidious conditioning tool by the way.

It simply isn't the case!

If you take part of the 'material' away from a person. They can continue to live without that portion. If you take 'spirit' away from a person - they're dead. Nothing more than a soon-to-be-rotting pile of flesh and bone.

Without the spark of Life, the indwelling of spirit (and I'm NOT referring to any religious ideal here), a human being, plant, animal, tree what have you ....is without LIFE. That means it's dead.

Spirit IS primary to matter. Period. The Mayan calendar is built on this foundational reality. They intutively understood what WE have become blind to!

To understand the Mayan calendar, it must be approached from that vantage point.

I can also give you very valid reasons why the Long Count you point to here is wrong - along with the end date being off by more than 420 days. But I have things to do at the moment. I'll check back in though....


AirstreamJock

http://www.airstreamradio.com

At last its good see somone with solid arguements thanks for the info friend but i do dissagree with something.

"The movement of physical objects through space tells us NOTHING about Creation or evolution - it cannot. It is physical system and the basis for materialistic thinking"

I have to say im not really sure about that, the entire basis of geomatry, measurements, processional wobble, maths etc...comes from such study of the planets[even stars] and their relation to us. Yes they used to confirm seasonal change, crop cycles and so on wich could infact be acheived without an astronimical calendar which it essentially was as it records the time taken by our planet to complete revolutions of another astral body. As is found in their observations of the planet Venus and its cycle they could calculate the Venus cycle extremely accurately. There are six pages in the Dresden Codex (one of the Maya codices) devoted to the accurate calculation of the location of Venus. They were able to achieve such accuracy by careful observation over many years.

As to what will happen im not entirely sure, but something i find quite frankly disturbing is that on 2112 as it were, the sun comes into a very curious alignment with the spiral arm of our galaxy[the big mily white band of stars in the sky]. If u notice theres a black stripe in its the center, the sun will rise exactly along its path. The eygptians were also awaiting this astrological event as were the Khmer of cambodia, Ankgor, specificaly build for that purpose in mind. To the egyptions and khmer it represented their gods traveling into the next world through the stars, though neither people gave exact dates of this event, possibly they were not as advanced time tellers as the mayans, curious as well as this fits with their temple alignments i.e at the four corners of the world.

Info on the long count would be appreciated, cheers bud.

Don't believe all the nonsense you read in 'new age' books and internet sites......

New age?, lol aye right. Strangely enough this alignemt is going to happen, i however am not speculating that it means anythign other than simply that it is going to happen.

Okay thats just freaky. o_o

I really dislike this pattern.

Someone writes something very vague... "Grey skies to the south."

1500 years later, there's a dust cloud. OOooooooOOOOoooooo it's a prophecy.

No, its just filling in vagueness.

The Bird hitting something should be A BIRD. Don't read into it.

Because right now I could write a bunch of vague stuff and 500 years from now EVENTUALLY something will fit with what I write.

Green of the south will eat the red.

The one eyed leader will be defeated by the portly one.

The tall king will die by the little king's hand.

Eventually something green will destroy something red

Eventually there will be a one eyed leader who loses to a fat one

and eventually a tall leader will be beaten by a shorter one.

AND IM NOT EVEN CALLING MYSELF A PROPHET.

vagueness and interpretation don't mean prophecy, they mean brilliant interpretation of vague clues.

Ahhh Ladies and Gentlemen thank you for finally bringing this forum around to a sensible conversation.

airstreamjock & gryphon_2005... really enjoyed your postings. Understood everything well written and informative. PLEASE keep it up.

captainx32... thank you for your explanation of the Muslim faith beliefs I like to be able to understand other cultures.

UniversalMind...I understand what you are saying here about vague prophecies. The problem with prophecy and prediction is that they don't fit into a slot until after that fact. Who knows the quotes you made could quite possibly come true....we will wait and see???

What you have to understand is what people today do is look at predictions with a 2005 mind. The problem is that not only has our world changed it's people have changed too. We always have the power to change things. Sometimes when prophecies don't quite work out the way they are predicted it is because we have already altered something. But yes a lot of things are vauge and obscure but can we really say they weren't true at the time of writing?

To better understand prophecies one has to try to think in a way they would 1000's of years ago when these things were written. Todays world is far different from theirs can you imagine what things they saw, how frightening they must have been only to try and go back to their own time and relate it to something on their level of understanding then write about it.

The Mayan calendar was created not with us in mind but for their own benefit. It is possibly unfortunate/fortunate that we are in a time when the end of the age is about to be fulfilled.

If we look at Mother Shiptons phrophecy we can expect a comet to disrupt our world with catastrophic effects. Will we all die No. But those who are left will have a very different world to live in. Ever had the power go out for a couple of hours sheesh imagine not having power at all....how will I survive without my computer. I will because I am a survivor and I am preparing for whatever outcome it will be.

Embrace the Galactic Conciousness and peace and harmony will come to all

Cheers
Dee

Don Yeomans, Steve Chesley and Paul Chodas
NASA's Near Earth Object Program Office
December 23, 2004

A recently rediscovered 400-meter Near-Earth Asteroid (NEA) is predicted to pass near the Earth on 13 April 2029. The flyby distance is uncertain and an Earth impact cannot yet be ruled out. The odds of impact, presently around 1 in 300, are unusual enough to merit special monitoring by astronomers, but should not be of public concern. These odds are likely to change on a day-to-day basis as new data are received. In all likelihood, the possibility of impact will eventually be eliminated as the asteroid continues to be tracked by astronomers around the world.

This object is the first to reach a level 2 (out of 10) on the Torino Scale. According to the Torino Scale, a rating of 2 indicates "a discovery, which may become routine with expanded searches, of an object making a somewhat close but not highly unusual pass near the Earth. While meriting attention by astronomers, there is no cause for public attention or public concern as an actual collision is very unlikely. New telescopic observations very likely will lead to re-assignment to Level 0 [no hazard]." This asteroid should be easily observable throughout the coming months.

December 24 Update: 2004 MN4 is now being tracked very carefully by many astronmers around the world, and we continue to update our risk analysis for this object. Today's impact monitoring results indicate that the impact probability for April 13, 2029 has risen to about 1.6%, which for an object of this size corresponds to a rating of 4 on the ten-point Torino Scale. Nevertheless, the odds against impact are still high, about 60 to 1, meaning that there is a better than 98% chance that new data in the coming days, weeks, and months will rule out any possibility of impact in 2029.

WOW ... LOL, pure genius. I love aquatcus, makes some of the most meaningful posts on this whole forums, as for the September 11th prediction I havent heard anything about that, and once again CHECK and RECHECK your sources. They can be misleading.

The birds striking the towers is somewhat compelling, but where does it have the exact datet that it will happen on in any of their writings? And it is possible that one, the Mayan's may not have writtne their callenders beyond 2012 OR, it could be a wonderful even, manking breaking out of the subliminal slavery that we exist under now.

You can read anything into anything. That was always my biggest beef in poetry classes and that's my biggest gripe about prophesies as well. Eventually they become self-fulfilling, as people seek to find explanations in the inexplicable and will believe just about anything in order to make it come true.

Look at all the books devoted to reading the bible upside down and backwards and in every other available language looking for "god planted" clues to the future. Silliness, if you ask me. That's not to say that sometimes a "prediction" won't turn out to be freakily accurate, but a stopped clock will also be right twice a day, you know? That doesn't take any prophesy to figure out.

Look at what's been predicted about computers vs what we have today. Space exploration. Robots, lasers, underwater exploration. The likelyhood of somebody somewhere saying/writing something that will/can/does come to pass is inevitable. The real coolness factor is seeing it happen within one's lifetime, I think.

Lol that response was what iwould have said if i wasnt bound to this contract

You gotta remember, they measured time a lot differently than modern day, and we have added days, hours, minutes, seconds to our clock. So, judging by the Mayan Calendar, despite the event of 2012, if you compare both calenders, 2012 has already past by their calendar, and the end of the world has already passed by even though for us the year 2012 hasn't come to pass.

I'm not sure if it was the mayans or not but,
didn't they say that robots would take over the world?
or machines would countrole the world?
or somthing like that?

I'm not aware of anything like that, there are two theories that I know of. (1) The Mayan calendar predicts the end of the world(a story that has taken on a life of its own ); (2)The Mayans predicted a cycle of consciousness raising and enligthenment(the more probable thing and the item that most writers on this subject write about)

this is just like people saying Jesus will return in 2000 and it didnt happen. Every generation has a dooms day theory everyone believes the end of the world will happen in their time blah blah. When the year 2013 comes and noothing happens i will be one of the many people laughing at the red faced dim wits holding on to any hope that just maybe they were right. Then next it will be that the world will end in 2032 supposedly thats exactly 2000 years after Jesus's death and thats when he will return and thats when the world will end. "The Myan Calander" might have ended in 2012 because they ran out of room on the rock or tablet or whatever they wrote it on.

Woah, that means you made alot of long comments!

Snagging from http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_3.htm, I quote:

* The Tzolk'in is the Sacred calendar of the Maya and is based on the cycles of the Pleiadies. The cycle of the Pleiadies uses 26,000 years, but is reflected in the calendar we are using by encompassing 260 days. It uses the sacred numbers 13 and 20. The 13 represents the numbers and 20 represents the sun/glyphs. The Tzolk'in has four smaller cycles called seasons of 65 days each guarded by the four suns of Chicchan, Oc, Men and Ahau. There are also Portal days within the Tzolkin that create a double helix pattern using 52 days and the mathematics of 28. This sacred calendar is still being used for divination by the traditional Maya all over the Yucatan, Guatemala, and Belize, and Honduras.
The Tzolkin calendar was meshed with a 365-day solar cycle called the "Haab". The calendar consisted of 18 months with 20 days (numbered 0-19) and a short "month" of only 5 days that was called the Wayeb and was considered to be a dangerous time. It took 52 years for the Tzolkin and Haab calendars to move through a complete cycle.

Archaeologists claim that the Maya began counting time as of year 3114 B.C.
This is called the zero year and is likened to January 1, 1 AD. All dates in the Long Count begin there, so the date of the beginning of this time cycle is written 0-0-0-0-0. 13 cycles of 394 years will have passed before the next cycle begins, which is in year 2012 A.D. (13-0-0-0-0).

(end of quote)

There's more information on site about how to actually use this calendar. It's freakishly in-depth, and we think we're all hip and cool and brainaics with our simple 12 months named after old gods...But I digress. My point was going to be, it's cyclical in nature, this calendar. The ending of a cycle doesn't mean the end of everything. No doubt it's a time of upheaval but the end of the world itself? I doubt it. It's a time of change. That's all. What changes there will be in the new cycle, well, we'll have to wait and see.

Yep, it'll be a time of upheaval just like happens every time one calendar cycle ends and another begins. Remember what happened on the 1st January 2005.....

Quote: "From what I hear the modern calendar isn't really a calendar at all it is just a booklet made from paper filled with nice pictures, a bunch of numbers, and writing. rolleyes.gif"

That is hilarious Athenian. I was watching the Science Channel earlier and they were talking about the pyramids they built and their astrological significance. It is quite remarkable for, as they put it, a prehistoric people to build these great monuments and their accuracy for predicting celestial events.

LMAO!!!!!

It means embellishment to make a story more exciting to an audience.

Or that silly Y2K business... What was that but a bunch of "end of the world as we know it" mumbo jumbo...

when you say that 'the mayans were not the first people to figure out celestial movement with great accuracy" to which previous culture are you referring? -the Olmecs? because if you are then you may be surprised to know that there are many within the field of archaeology who believe that the Maya inherited their calender and knowlege of mathematics from the Olmec.
While some have considered the Flood to have occurred around 10,000 or 20,000 B.C., have not others placed it at about 2,500 B.C.? Of what significance is this variation of 5,000, 10,000 or 20,000 years? Which of these views, if any, is correct, and what are the implications contained therein?

Firstly there was the flood created by the melting of the ice that covered most of northern europe.This took place circa 11,000bce. This could easily have have been a recorded event as it took place within the period of modern man and although a largely localised phenomenon it would have appeared to the witnesses as if the entire world was flooded.
Secondly, the eruption of Thera (Santorini) which took place circa 1600bce. This eruption which was many times more powerful than the Krakatoa event and would have caused serious flooding all along the eastern coasts of the mediterranean. The resulting tidal surge from this eruption penetrated well over 30 miles inland and could have caused serious flooding through Israel and along the Tigris/Euphrates delta. Dont forget that several other large eruptions are believed to have taken place within the mediterranean around this period.
However, to get back to the mayans. Firstly , the maya believed that life existed within a series of great cycles that began with creation and ended in catastrophe. The present great cycle began on 4 ahau 8 cumku, which corresponds in our calender to 13th august 3114bce......(which oddly coincides with the appearance of the dynastic egyptian period.)
The present cycle ends with a global catastrophe on 4 ahau 3 kankin which corresponds to 23rd december 2012 ce in our calender.

That is a very lengthy cycle. If the Mayans could predict cycles even before theei culture began, could there be more predictions of the future? Could we stop the possible catastrophe of 2012, if one is coming? Is the catastrophe going to be a big bang or a slow and painful process? Will Time end as we know it and start anew? Your thoughts.

the mayans counted time in millions of years.They understood the abstract concept of zero and they had - or had inherited - a knowledge of equinoctial precession. not bad for people who didnt have the wheel and couldnt weigh a bag of maize. Their obsession with time and the measurement of it appears irrational and indeed is unless of course they were struggling to produce an accurate forecast of the end of the sun-cycle they were livng in, They believed there had been four previous cycles all of which ended in some form of catastrophe but began with creation. We are still living within the period of the fifth sun-cycle.
Alas,they failed to forecast the end of their own existance as a developed culture but perhaps they were not interested in knowing. They appeared to be thinking on a higher plane.

David Raup and John Sepkoski, two respected paleontologists, have made the remarkable claim that great catastrophes occur on the Earth every 26 million years, like clockwork. It was only 4 years earlier in 1979 that Alvarez had proposed that the extinction of the dinosaurs had been triggered 65 million years ago by an asteroid crashing into the Earth. Many paleontologists had initially paid no regard to this theory, and one had publicly dismissed Alvarez as a 'nut', regardless of his Nobel Prize in physics. But David Raup and John Sepkoski had both liked Alvarez's asteroid theory and now were sending their own theory to Alvarez, or rather their findings, as they offered no explanation. Muller and Alvarez agreed to research their bizarre claim that great catastrophes occur on the Earth every 26 million years.

26,000 years........26,000,000 years. hmmmm

hmm indeed. Which reminds me, off topic tho it may be - when was the last time the poles flipped? Are scientists anticipating the next flip as happening anytime soon? Maybe that's the kind of catastrophe on the mind of mayans? /shrug

If the Mayan Clandar cycle is supposed to pinpoint 2012AD as a signifcant date when something significant will happen (though, since it's a Mayan calandar, presumably only to the Mayans) why did they start it in 3114BC?

Good question. I've been doing some research to help answer this question and I think I've come up with a definitive answer. The Mayan calendar or calendars--there have been four--are devisible in 5,126 years. Each cycle of the earth as they predict has 5,126 years to it. If you add 3114+2012, you'll get 5,126. In 3114 BCE, the Mayans proclaimed creation--or the fourth cycle--began, and in 2012 is will end. Unfortunately, they don't predict anymore cycles. Kinda of worrisome in a way, but I've found some information that could explain what we could expect. Though read this information with a hint of scepticism, and yet at the same time with an open mind.

http://www.armageddononline.net/mayan.php

Considering that the Mayans predicted such large calendars cycles.. they probably would have guessed they would'nt be here in 2012 AD.. not as they knew it anyway.. rather like i can't comprehend what 9000 AD will be like, now.

.. Seeing as their are NO happy endings in life as we know it, as a Mayan.. maybe they just decided to push the sad reality of world extinction so far into the future, that they could then tell themselves they were all safe and forget about it?

also interesting in maya legend the fourth cycle ended with a worldwide flood....

And as we are witnessing all around the world--the flood is here. The icecaps are melting due to global warming, there are freak weather patterns causing the waters to rise and rampants to break, and George W. Bush won't stop spitting out those lies. The American people are getting drenched every time he speaks.

Nah, I bet the Mayans were just as bad as us - someone always saying the world will end in a few years time, and making a fast buck..... Actually, perhaps not quite as bad as us, what's it been in recent years? 1996, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2012, 2036............

But if you think about it, with enough warning maybe whatever it may be can be avoided. There have always been troubled events yet to come that never came to pass because of people who took a step to prevent them from happening. Y2K is one of them. Though I still think that it was a hoax and all it did was fill the pockets of those who made a "program" to supposedly stop the Y2K bug.

At least the Mayans provide us with a year to focus on specifically, unlike other so-called prophets that have had their day. If I said it already, I apologize for forgetfulness, but when it comes to looking back at the people who looked forward, we risk making their prophesies self-fulfilling. You can point to a couplet from Nostradomus and yep, clearly he described Hitler here, and this massacre there.. No he didn't. We just have the luxury of hindsight and a good imagination to see what we want to see, like a literary Rorshak test...

It's easier to try and prevent something if we know exactly what that something is. Maybe global warming and holes in the ozone and whatall are natural occurences for the world, and it just happens that we're here now to document it, see it, study it and worry ourselves about it. Not that I'm against the idea of cutting fossil fuel emissions or something. Yes, horrible how we're using up our natural resources so quickly, considering we have nowhere we can shop for more. heh. What's been done to forests and whales and seals and cod and birds and pick the species, humanity has done something nasty to it...

Maybe we are doomed. Maybe it IS time for the reckoning, to face our judges and get kicked out of the game for shoving. Maybe let the mice have a turn...

I'm ready. I have someone waiting for me.

This point is well worth taking a moment to discuss. The Maya did not measure time differently than we do today. Time is time is time....period. The difference is not that they measured time differently....the difference is they saw something very different ABOUT time than we see today.

The language of dates is the same today as it was 3,000 years ago. The key is to discover what the Maya were measuring. Today we value the measurements of the revolution of the Earth around our Sun. We call this a day. The Maya were keenly aware of the Solar cycled and had a very precise calendar that marked it called the Haab. The Haab was used by the city/states for tax purpose - it was not an important calendar for them on a daily basis.

The calendar they used every single day - the one they lived each day by was called the Tzolk'in and Tun calendars; 260 and 360 days respectively. These are interlocking calendar rounds. This calendar is not measuring the movement of physical objects through space.

Today we are stuck in this materialistic world-view that places physical 'things' above spirit. This world-view comes DIRECTLY from our use of the Gregorian calendar - and I might add this calendar is used all around the world in every culture.

When I say spirit don't get confused in my meaning. I'm not talking about anything religious whatsoever. I'm talking about the energy of Life that exists in ALL things everywhere. To place the value of 'things' above spirit, is to become blinded to our purpose and to our inherent inner power. We have become blinded by this world-view, as a species.

It is difficult to say we are better off because of our love-affair with the 'materialist world-view'......the Earth, people, everything is easily subjugated and abused when through the materialist world-view, all is seen as dead matter.

This is how people can be seen as "human resources" - this is how the Earth can be seen as a "dead-resource" along with the sea, the oceans, rivers, lakes, streams...animals and of course other nations....nothing more than resources; something to buy and sell and take at will....as if it will never run out.

2012 has not yet passed according to the Mayan calendar - but this understanding is only possible if you actually understand what the Mayan calendar is about. And remember the Maya had more than 20 calendars...some were more important than others. The Tzolk'in and the Tun are the two most important and the Tune is the LEAST understood by archealogists. That is not to say they are not understood...there are many recent discoveries that shed new light on this most critical knowledge for all of us today.

If you really want to know more about this calendar and what it means - subscribe to Mayan Calendar Cast and find out why your life depends on knowing where you are in TIME! Check it out if you like at www.airstreamradio.com

In the meantime, the discussion here is quite stimulating!

Airstreamjock


(Andi Mac)

One more point I wanted to bring up while here today....and sorry for such a long delay in adding posts! We've been busy getting Mayan Calendar Cast rolling with audio and video shows...

Everyone seems to be focusing all their energy on the prophecies of the Maya. These are of course valuable to some degree...but only to some degree!

WE ARE THE ONES prophecying our own future right now! We are creating our future NOW!

The calendar of the Maya is a tool we can use - if we're smart - to determine where we ARE in the cycles of Creation. The Maya were in the perfect place and time to see something we cannot see now. We can use that fore-knowledge to create what we choose to create! AND FRIENDS THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!

Sorry for appearing to yell...just wanted to make that point.

At this point in the game....the idea is to get a clue and rise to the occasion! In our lifetime we will see something that no other generation has ever witnessed..........the climb to the top of the Cosmic Pyramid.

The pyramids of the Maya are calendars! They are physical representations of a deeper truth that if properly understood..........through the application of science and Intelligence (not intellect but Intelligence) can be used as a roadmap to get where we really want to go! Rather than just stumbling around in the dark!

It's easy to interpret anything as anything.....but dates are not ambiguous. DATES are something we can use as a flash-point of accuracy to figure out what the heck we're here for! AND guess what....you ARE here for a reason. Don't ask me what that is - only you can discover that for yourself.

The fact is Creation IS ON OUR SIDE! We do have a LOT of help right now, if we're willing to sit up and take notice. We have been given all kinds of clues to follow - to use - to take advantage of. Will we? Of course that question is yet to be answered but I am convinced beyond any shadow of doubt that we will rise to the occasion.

Every event throughout history - regardless of whether it is viewed as a failure on our part or not - has led us to this place; this point in our evolutionary process.....

So, here we are. We will see the end of the world AS WE KNOW IT...............and in the process TOGETHER, create a world that is very different from what it is today. The interesting part - in my humble opinion - is that we've got 6 years to put it all together. In the scheme of things that might seem short - but it's enough and that's all that matters.

There's hard evidence now that shows what the Maya were counting and why. Why not use it? The prophecies of the Maya have been extraordinarily profound in their accuracy but that's not even the best part! The calendar itself is a prophetic tool....not to predict BUT TO CREATE! Let's get busy what 'ya say??

Airstreamjock
(Andi Mac)

www.airstream-indie-radio.com

Listen, my friend and I had a discussion about this already. There is no way this is 100% correct, but there was a code that was uncoded from the bible stating "An powerful leader will lead to the doomsday of this world"...that can be true. however, we can relate to this to today, for example George Bush and the situation in Iraq. If Bush so called stated to drop a atomic both in the middle east countries, then prehaps this code can be true....

however, whatever i just said can be false and it may been, but one thing we know is that we control our destiny, not some Accient civilization and their invention...altough, if we right now established a computer that can end the world and some how we live throuh 1000 years more....that computer is just as exact as that Mayan calendar...

so what now, we have like 7 years left to continue our problems and such, or do we turn around and do good before 2012 so when the time comes, it was just a false alarm.......think about it!

adkchamp: you are exactly correct. The ancient Maya don't imply they control anything and the calendar itself doesn't control anything. That's not what the calendar is there for...

Think of it like this. You would probably say the Gregorian calendar doesn't control anything. Like perhaps you might say, "the calendar doesn't control my life."

I would say to you, "really?"

Do you celebrate your birthday on the day the calendar says it is your birthday?

Do you go to school, work or anywhere on the day the calendar say is the day for each event?

Do you come and go and do according to what the calendar says?

Yep. Everyday. Every week. Every month. Every year.

The calendar holds a lot of control in your world, doesn't it? If you're willing to have a look at it the way it actually is.

The calendar of the Maya is a precision tool, created by ancient Time Scientists....who had a birds-eye view of something we cannot see from where we are today.

We can only see what they were looking at, by looking at what they created....and my friend, what they created is having a profound effect on your life right now, as you're reading this.

You don't have to believe that.

In fact, it's better if you DO NOT believe that! Check it out for yourself................




What you call "doing good" was a lot harder before Jan 5, 1999, when according to the Mayan calendar Long Count we were still in the previous Underworld.

Since Jan 5, 1999, there has been an outpouring of assistance from Creation itself. In other words, we....human beings....are able to see, understand and connect with energy and insight we couldn't before. You've probably noticed this in your own life, even if you never made the connection before. Your life and everyone's life around you may seem as if time is speeding up. As if things are just moving faster and faster.

This 'ramping up' is going to continue for the nex six years. By the way, the end of the Mayan Calendar is October 28, 2011.

As the next Tun shift begins - which is just around the corner on November 29, 2005, we will step up again....into the next level of this Underworld.

At this point in time, we are smack dab in the middle of this Underworld and the energy of the forward movement is still subtle. As we have now topped the mid-point, and are going into the period where lessons learned this past year are applied....the energy shift will feel quite different. Having your intuition turned on - your life and inner being in balance is going to be more and more critical - for every single one of us.

This thing isn't about what we think! It's happening whether we 'think' it will or not. Why not understand what's really going on, rather than guessing at it?

If you want to know more, check out Mayan Calendar Cast. What I can tell you...is you'll probably feel rather conflicted about all this and want to throw all these ideas in the trash. Not a problem. Just remember where this post is - and where our site is. We'll keep the light on for anyone interested.....


AirstreamJock

www.airstreamradio.com

The global warming is probably true but the cause is surely not what people are told ! The militaries are aiming to manipulate the weather as weapon so guess what kind of detrimental experiments they are doing to planet earth right now - under the disguise of global warming or mayan prophecies !

You don't believe it ? It's on the FAS site: Federation of American Scientists

AF2025 v3c15-1 | Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning... | (Ch 1)
AF2025 Final Report: Vol 3; (Ch 1) Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025
www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm
[attachmentid=20411]

I say you're expecting to see the end of the world as the Mayans predicted it. But right now we have no idea what they thought was going to happen. End of cycle, right? Was anything written down anywhere that'd explain what to expect, though? It's not like Revelations or something. heh. That's pretty graphic.

You said their calender wasn't recording time like we do, by revolution of the planet around the sun (or at least, you implied that) so what exactly DID the Mayans count? You didn't really explain that very well. Please try again.

Plus, this is not the year 2013, so we have no idea if they've been accurate yet. You're just assuming they will be.

Is there any other date in history that can be pointed to and say "The Mayans were spot on predicting that event..."? Aside from comets and the like. Human events. Spirit events. What? Are there any? Anything that couldn't be reinterpreted to mean several other moments in history?

I'm just throwing it out there. If anyone can illuminate and correct me, go nuts. =)

Explaining what the Maya were counting is what Mayan Calendar Cast (which is an audio/video pod cast) is all about.

Obviously, there are no planets or stars moving around the Sun in 260 days, yet this was one of the most important calendars the Maya created, it is the calendar that fully explains the pyramids and the function of the pyramids - The Tzolk'in along with the Tun were the very center of their civilization.

In the next two weeks we'll be launching a video pod cast in our feed that explains in MUCH more detail exactly what the Maya were counting. Essentially, they created the calendar to show "the wave cycles of the evolution of Creation". This brief comment doesn't fully apprise you of the details - but in short, that's what they were counting. Suffice to say, it's worth finding out exactly what this means. When you have a better grasp of what this means, it's actually quite easy to start plugging in your own personal experience and knowledge to see it for yourself.





Yes, there are literally hundreds and hundres of events including the appearance of the internet - but understand this, the Maya didn't predict the events....they discovered how the wave cycles of Creation oscillate. The events fall into place as the winds of Creation change direction. AND all of this has ocurred within the framework they discovered existed. That is the difference between 'predicting' per se, and understanding what the layout of the forward movement of Creation looks like. We, as a critical species within this framework are as much a part of these wave cycles as everything else is. We are effected by them to our very core. Is this spiritual? You bet - that's what we're made of. Again not in any religious sense...but simply the spark of Life that gives us the ability to move and breath and do what we do....

Check our site in the next week or so to see this extraordinary information for yourself. As I mentioned before this isn't about believing anything. We're not bringing this information out so people will believe - but rather so people can educate themselves....

When you have real data to look at and work with, it makes all the difference in the world.

AirstreamJock
Andi Mac

and remember, the ancient mayas had only 13 numbers...so after 13 they went back to one....

.....actually, the Maya used a base 20 system, but wrote numbers that were astronomically large with this numbering system. They were also one of the first to use the zero, which in the Quiche Maya, is called "Pop". The calendar is based on a 13:20 mathematical ratio. I think that might be where you got the idea their numbering system only went up to 13....

ASJ

Oh dear - Even Jesus doesn't know...

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.