Pseudepigrapha.

Ok, you want the answer, I'll quote from someone else who has done a very good job of explaining it.



And as for the date?





To read the entire thing click here

Kinda makes me wonder what else was cutout of the bible...

I mean, we know some were added by Constantine, stuff added and rearanged by King James...

Maybe there was another book.. or chapter knocked out as well.

Well, that's exactly my point. The Bible has been cut to pieces and it clearly states it should never have been. This is why I say I am no religion, (which doesn't at all imply that I don't believe in God, just that religion, all of them, have man-made rules). One religion has part of the story, another has the other part, and so on and so forth and because no religion likes the other, they refuse to compare notes and see the whole picture. Then there's the completely excluded books which reveal more than the ones being accepted to begin with!

The original rule, like I've said, is that if one LETTER was mispelt, the entire document was thrown out (and Enoch was not mispelt it WAS an accepted document) and that if ANY part of it was taken out or added to it couldn't be considered. They've thrown those rules out the window and now we have a Bible which only tells part of the story, the part the Medevil churchrunners WANTED people to see so as to control the people, and which has a zillion translastions of the same thing, which was originally forbidden. The Word of God, was ONE WORD.

This is why it's important to bring these excluded books back to the attention of people, because they are currently only seeing part of the story, and as a result of that, are making up their own conclusions because there are questions they can't answer, when the answer has always been there, but they have thrown it out.

Thank you for bringing that up though.

But see.. what I want to ask is, do you believe in following everything in the bible says to do?

Well, the Bible doesn't really 'tell you' to do anything, with the exception of the 10 commandments (there were actualy 613, not 10 - the 10 refer to the most grievious sins, the majority of the rest referred to Hebrew priesthood). It's not about telling you you can't do this, you can't do that, if it was only that there'd only be one book, not a whole collection of them.

Have you read Lavidicus(ugh... spelling is...not within me) then?

Why do believe you have the ability to sift through that fragments of Christianity and pick the truth of what god intended for you to believe. How do you know the real message of god has not been destroyed by the powers of evil and He/She wants you to realize that all the books we have today are really the work of the devil?

What a perfect trick it would be. We blow our world away in the name of revelations and I go to heaven for not believing in any of this crap. For you, well, may god have mercy on your soul?

Because I know it's not.

"Knowing" implies that you have some kind of evidence to support your veiw....as you don't, you don't actually "know" it, you merely believe it.

4D's suggestion sounds quite valid to me

I have evidence. Was it it to you anyway? You believe what you want, I've said it before.

No child, you merely have a posting by one single person that disagrees with the large majority of the professional scholars. That is not evidence, only dissention. What is the creditials of this dissenting individual? If it is John P. Pratt the man specializing in ancient calendars, it would hardly make him an expert on ancient writings! Yes, 4dplane, your point is very valid and similar to that of Deism.

Whether Enoch belongs in the Bible or not...I don't know....

Does it matter? No. I don't think so. Why? Because the Bible is already so long and drawn out that one more book wouldn't change anyones beliefs.

It is my opinion that it is not a good idea to get drawn into the minutia of scripture in the Bible. Their is an overall theme to the Bible that always seems to take second fiddle to the 'minutia of scripture'. And that is Forgiveness. The prophecies and all are what they are...but the underlying theme is 'forgiveness'.

It isn't about 'sinning or not sinning'. It is about Forgiveness. I just thought I would throw that in there.

Funny how people find validity is bias.

Yes, that true, but you are wrong, this text SHOULD be in the Bible, it is very important, the original Bible, and makes sense of all the parts of the Bible people can't explain and therefore make up stories about to explain. It also explains many parts of history, which I'll go into later. On top of that, God HIMSELF said to share this book with EVERYONE, they had no right to throw it out.

So your John P. Pratt is the Calendar man! His telling people who study the bible as a advocation they are wrong is rather like a medical doctor telling a nuclear physicist that the accepted structure of the atom is in error! Pratt's contention is the bias and as you say, "Funny how people find validity is bias". Your bias is towards the validity of biblical scholars educated findings!

And you are a Biblical scholar are you?

If anything is taken out of the bible then the bible has been sensored.
By the hand of man right?
What man if he believes in god and the word of god would change the word of god?

I am of the opinion that supplementary materials can be very useful to understanding christian belief and its history, but to think that something critical to achieve what the good news is supposed do (salvation)was left out because of human intervention and therefore making the bible less than functional, it's like saying that God planned for the messiah to come for thousand of years(more?) and finished all the works (crucifixion) and then human evil is just efficient enough to create a mistake (removal of critical element from bible) that weaken the works and critical information intended to be broadcasted.

People changed the Bible, but maybe not solely of their own accord.

Q-la, is makes ALOT of difference how the texts get read.

Just because you believe doesn't mean you are right. You could believe god told you to change his words and not tell anyone what you did. In your mind, unless convinced otherwise, would believe that you were doing the will of god.

Yes, and the changes are made by Kings so they can continue to get away with what they want.

Hello Everyone:

I am new here, but have been reading some of the posts and find myself drawn into a very interesting forum site. I am not a scholar, but in my many years I have read extensively, especially history, philosophy and religions. I must say that some of the posts almost seem to be saying that God wrote the Bible. Well, hopefully we all know that man wrote the stories and man compiled the Bible. It may well be that God inspired the writing and compliations, or God actually worked through man to put his words down. But man, none the less, wrote the words and put the Bible together. Call me a skeptic, but I can not help but believe that man being the self serving agent that he is found a way to put together the Bible to serve himself, to a certain degree. I will have more to say, but I do not want to be too long winded (I am).

Anyway, Hello and you have a good exchange of ides going here.

Very well put! The way I see it you gotta read the stuff and form your own opinions - pray they are right. What happens is between you and God not a single other soul!

Ok, no, the texts of the Bible were written inspried by God, yes, man wrote them, but they were still what God wanted written. But the part about it serving people, that is where the changing of the texts comes in. Enoch was the first to write, and he became an angel next to God, so I doubt very much he would write to serve himself.

Again, I say, it does matter. Because that book was thrown out, people don't get the whole picture (and it was FORBIDDEN TO DO THIS to begin with, changing texts, taking parts out, adding parts in, have ONE mispelt LETTER) and they start making up 'cover stories' because they can't answer questions when the answers were there all the time.

So supposedly you're the almighty one whose read all the books and knows all the answers?

The whole picture is you are forgiven or not forvien what happens in your life is between you and God - if you obsess about every little thing you aren't ever going to be able to move forward in any aspect of your spirituality or realtionship with God because you are going to be too busy nit picking! You ever picked nits outa hair? Takes forever - focus on the big picture and let the rest take care of itself!

Well wouldnt that mean that Star's point is correct then? If it is shown that the original texts of the bible were changed, then what you stated would basically mean. Who Changed the bible, thought god was talking to them (So they are crazy?, Or god was talkin to them) Or they changed it for personal gain.

But I say, Why change what was originally written down from first hand experiences, of "gods word" and then change them to the way you think they should be written?? Unless for personal gain, or if you are crazy..

The question, as I see it, was the Book of Enoch taken out of the Bible or not included in it. Correct ,e if I am wrong, but was not the Bible Comprized some 600 to a 1000 years after Christ. Before that there were only stories. And wasn't most of the compliation done by Western Priests & Theolgians. That is what is wrong with people trying to read the Bible as if it was one long story. It is not. It is more like many short stories written by many people that progress in chronological time.

What if man misinterpreted what God wanted written, or he intentionally lied/censored what god wanted written... perhaps added stuff, perhaps took it away...



How do you know so? Because the book says so? if he is self serving, then the book saying otherwise means nothing.

dont you thik that God would know if man lied or added stuff.

I dont think he would since I dont think he exists. Hypothetically speaking, though, if he exists yes he would know. So what? That doesnt change a thing.

Either god took away the writers' free will to write what they wanted, or he didnt care.

Hell, you dont even know that the bible is gods word. What if, perhaps, he "inspired" them and they simply misunderstood it? What, god took controle of them and wrote the bible himself? What if he thought "hmm, they didnt write what I wanted to. I'll move on and try again." and the Koran is actually closer to his word?

The problem lies not in the orginal writting, but in the translation. As the addage goes, "Something gets lost in the translation." Who now uses the word "petard" or "bodkin". However those words were in great use during the middle ages. And even words we can understand have a different "emotional" tie in today's morals. An example being animal sacrifices. Animal sacrifice was an accepted way of doing business in very ancient times. I can just see a priest taking out a knife and cutting the throat of a lamb in a modern day mass.

Even with a well know language like Ancient Greek, oft times it is more interpreting than translating! This is the problem: the most popular bible used by Protestants is the KJV, the most incorrect of all the translations, leading to many many misconceptions!

Yes, you have a point there.

Holy sh** she agreed

Well, you should know by now I love to shock lol

Strangely enough, you did not shock me - I noticed that once before you had approached that thought!

And then?!

I am new the site. I like this topic. See I find it too hard to believe that the books found in the apocrypha would contain no truth and that everything in the bible is truth. With all the translations from Hebrew and Greek how could the absolute truth be taken out and understood when their is human error obviously. The other thing is that everything no matter what it is contains truth because GOD is truth and created everthing. GOD is everything and is limitless. Being that we are one with Christ and GOD is infinite everything contains truth. This is not to say that everything in the world is truth. Only through the spirit of GOD being with people can we understand what the real truth is.

The point is that that things were taken out of the BIBLE and things were put into the BIBLE that were true and not true. Only by the guidance of the Spirit will anybody be able to discern truth. So in conclusion the BIBLE has much truth but not everything in it is absolute truth and the books thrown out also have truth.

Thank you deaf diction!!

You are the first person to make a decent and open-minded reply on this entire thread (with a rare exception of a few others).

Merry (belated) Christmas to you!

Translated into normal speak, it means "At last, someone who actually buys into my delusion!" Deaf Diction if you believe in the Xian mythology, then you will believe that the bible is "God's word", now if God wanted something in the bible, he would have it put there and mere man (such as St Augustine) would not be able to have it removed - right? Then the apocrypha not being in the bible must be God's will and God must have a reason for that, you will agree with that! Now try to reason your way out of that and remain a true Xian!