[quote=Hotoke,Dec 14 2004, 09:04 AM]
[quote]

[quote]Stellar's avatar for instance. Angry, bitter, frowning, looks like he lost his best Yugio cards to some friend in a bad trade[/quote]

now that is just sad.... you judge to quickly. and you call youself a christian? hypocrite. look at you avatar. an eye.


I was NOT judging Stellar; I was judging the expression on his avatar. The visions you have in what I say are off kilter most undoubtedly because you just judged Stellar by stating those things yourself because those were your thoughts.

(A few days later)
Hotoke: Why did you edit your version of the above? When something is hidden in haste is it hidden because it would reveal a lie or is it hidden because it will reveal the truth.

Well, Hotoke, i really couldnt read all ur posts in this thread because i dont have time 2 read it all right now but i want 2 tell u that im totally agree with what u mentioned in the first post.

yeah, nobody knows who wrote the gospels and nobody knows when they were written.

But i want 2 tell u something here, this cant contradict the exitence of Jesus.
this contradicts all points of views that say that these gospels are from GOD.

Im sure that these gospels are not from GOD at all, im not only sure, no ,,, this is the truth, they are not from GOD.

I want 2 tell u that u said in ur first post all that i really wanted 2 say.

but i want 2 mention something else here, i dont know if someone else mentioned it or no.
--------------

If u looked at the gospel of Luke ((in the King James Version)), you will find in the first four verses in the first chapter, that it is only a letter!

A letter from someone called "Luke" to someone else called "Theophilus".
Who is "Theophilus" ??
Nobody knows!
You will only know that "Theophilus" is "" Lover of God, a Christian, probably a Roman, to whom Luke dedicated both his Gospel (Luk 1:3) and the Acts of the Apostles (Act 1:1). Nothing beyond this is known of him. From the fact that Luke applies to him the title "most excellent", the same title Paul uses in addressing Felix (Act 23:26; Act 24:3) and Festus (Act 26:25), it has been concluded that Theophilus was a person of rank, perhaps a Roman officer.""

And this is the first four verses in the first chapter as all of u know:
""1:1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed. ""

What can u find here??!

People who claims that this was an inspiration from GOD and GOD's word, must shut up now.
because, Luke said here ""Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word""

Only people are writting what they knew and their points of views.

What do u think ?!!

I hope u can get what i mean.

Thank u.

Wtf is Yugio? And btw, this avatar was suggested by Seraphina... its a long story, youc an figure it out if you go to the general board.

[quote=hadeka,Dec 14 2004, 10:40 AM]


If u looked at the gospel of Luke ((in the King James Version)), you will find in the first four verses in the first chapter, that it is only a letter!

A letter from someone called "Luke" to someone else called "Theophilus".
Who is "Theophilus" ??

The above reason was exactly why this letter was chosen for the New Testament. They were letters of those who had the opportunity to walk in Jesus' day and on those letters are essentially more of his teachings that were received by Jesus before his departure and of course, still being taught. Why else would they have put a letter from one person to another in the New Testament? Because it had a larger definition of what Christ had done during that time.

Theophilus is also written to in Acts 1. Do you write letters to people who share your beliefs or do you write letters to people who disagree on your beliefs. These were not writings that they ever expected to see published in 2004 in a book called the Bible, they were just letters to their friends that shared in their faith.

I'm very confused here. First you claim Nazareth is documented and imply Atlantis is not. Then you imply Nazareth is as undocumented as Atlantis. What is your point? That since poeple think Atlantis might exist based on flimsy proof, we should go ahead and accept that Nazareth existed on similarly flimsy proof? Considering that there is more evidence indicating that both of these were stories and metaphors adapted to their times than of them being actual physical places, would it make more sense to go with that, as opposed to the ideas with the flimsy evidence?

My p[oint was the absurd belief in things like alantis bigfoot etc but the outright denial of things like Christ and Nazareth which have been written about and not just in bible

i believe that jesus was a true person but some of the facts have got mixed up over the years kind of like chinese whispers, jesus may of been a simple every day doctor pehaps, he may of made a few people recover from there illnesses then rumurs may of spread of how good he was and be 4 u know it half of the world believed that he was the son of god and could cure ne illness or deformity.

well they r my thoughts ne way

Actually Hadeka, it does obliquely contradict the existance of the Biblical Jesus since the NT is the only place the he is mentioned (except for a highly contested probable forgery in Josephus works) until 2nd century CE. There is no contemporary evidence of Jesus, Paul's letters (the real ones and the forgies) are the first place he is mentioned and even then Paul seems to be writing more about a spirit than a man.

Panther, the point everyone is making is that there is NO contemporary evidence of Jesus! Just like Big Foot, Atlantis, and UFO's he appears in writings with NO supporting evidence. JC is the NT Big Foot/Atlantis/UFO with NO real contemporary evidence that he ever really lived!

Alien Child, you are probably right...The whole debate here has been the existence of the Biblical Jesus, but even a legend of a make-believe person usually has a basis!

Well then, why believe the bible and not the Koran and all the other religions also?

You make assumptons! I believe and disbelieve alot of all those writings

Just as people here also believe/disbelieve a lot of the other phenomena? That would mean you make assumptions too...

thats more like apples and oranges but its ok what I find funny is the aggressiveness in which some attack The Bible and Jesus and yet without question accept Bigfoot Nessie UFO's etc or attack much less aggressively. Its almost as though they HAVE to be right or even are afraid to believe! I agree with you but honestly it means "less than nothing" what others believe. I made the mistake of posting on this thread even though my first thought was to avoid it. Since I am already here I have chosen to reply to "some" of the counter posts. I respect everyone's belief they have their own beds and they can make them I will NOT attempt to persuade anyone to my way of thinking which by my own admission is made to fit my own needs.

i believe in nothing. as a matter of fact i am currently disproving my existence. there is no proof of bigfoot, ufo's, etc to disprove them but there is proof to doubt the existence of jesus. many questions remain unanswered

First of all, I suspect (but cannot prove) that the average person takes a "wait and see" attitude towards Big Foot, Nessie, and UFOs. I have never heard of a Church of Big Foot, Temple of Nessie, or (with the exception of Norman posting here) Mosque of UFO, nor have I had any adherents to the above (non-existent) religions knocking on my door, trying to "give me the good news". Would that I could say the same about the Xians! They remind me of fleas and gnats with their swarming and pestering! Seems that every third knock is some member of some "congregation", inviting me to come to their church! If you try to be nice, they persist in their pestering, if you flatly tell them that you aren't interested, they trot out their tired mythology to convince you of your warm destination in the next life! You swap at gnats and scratch flea bites and you are agressive in your "attacks" on Xianity for the same reasons - getting a little relief from the pestering!

yes jesus lived

Many Jesuses lived, it was a very popular name in Judea from the 3rd century BCE to the end of the 1st century CE. The biblical Jesus might have lived or might be a congromeration of several of the famous Jesuses of the 2nd and 1st centuries BCE. There is no real evidence (the gospels were written too late and the entry in Josephus is probably a sham and also too late) that the biblical Jesus ever existed. We can show evidence of the existence of other "Holy" men of that period, but not one word was written about a man performing miracles that would have peaked the interest of even the Emperor in Rome!

no

jesus did so live

I am jesus. Prove me wrong.

Wow, you are so positive, you must have some secular contemporary proof of "The Man"! You wouldn't mind sharing it with us would you? Please, we do not accept any "proof" after 28 CE nor feelings in your heart or any other thing like that. Faith and $1.25 might buy you a cup of coffee, but not anything else!

read my posts thank you come again

No I am jesus

Doesnt it take a stronger person to Live without there being a GOD than a person that thinks and say he/she knows a god exists etc..

Because if a person doent believe and he/she accepts they will die and they will not go to heaven, I believe that is the stronger person than some1 who wants God to hold their hand.

but thats my view.


oh and. I do believe that there might of been a jesus. but Hes probably discovered penicillin or something when he cured people LoL

Thats part of the reason I laugh when people are telling me that I'm living in fairy tale land.



Lol

Turn some water into wine for me will ya?

Give me grapes, yeast, a bit sugar and some 6 months ...

Meh, I dont feel like it.

What makes you the undisputed expert of the Christian religion? I know more about it than you could ever possibly imagine, yet you parade yourself around here only posting in response to anyone who claims to believe in God. I never see you around any of the other forums. It seems like your whole life revolevs around disproving God's existance. What a sad thing for you.

You will never see God, because you are too afraid of the consequences if you actually did. Do you actually believe your "proof" is going to sway the true believers faith? If you do, you are wasting your time.

I myself am living proof that God truely does exist in the christian sense:
Before I gave my life fully to Christ I used to be a drug addict. I have done Magic Mushrooms well over 600 times, and LSD at least 150 times. I have smoked so much pot I could even begin to know how much it has been in total. I have had slavia that took me to another dimension. I have tried drugs you probably haven't ever heard of like LSA, 2-cb, 2-ct7, Dextromethorphan, and Dipenhydramine, to name a few. I have abused Codine, Cocaine heavily, Crack, and even smoked heroin a few times. I've stayed up for weeks on Crystal Meth. I've done Ecstacy at least 40 times. I've tried peyote, and the derivative mescalin. I've even huffed gasses. I used to drink a mickey of whiskey a day at least. I did so many drugs I couldn't support myself properly, and often chose food over drugs. And I used to mix them all too. I used to combine them for different effects. It was my hobby. It was my art. It was my science. It was my LIFE. I did so many drugs I'm lucky to still be alive, and I am deadly seriously about this. I ended up in the hospital more than once. And I can assure you, drugs are not the way to God. They are not the path to God. And they will not show you God. Trust me, I thought I saw God on many occasions. I even thought I talked to him. But it was all deceptions.

I couldn't quit. No matter how I tried, I couldn't quit. No matter how I wanted to, and believe me, I wanted to, I couldn't quit. i went to Rehab 3 times. I went to alcoholics anonymous. I tried it all. And the only thing that worked, and I mean the ONLY thing that worked was having God come into my life. Infact, you could say that I would be dead right now if it wasn't for him. Either that, or I would be in jail, or living on the streets. Now I have been blessed with wealth, a house, and everything I need. And none of it could have happened without divine intervetion.

I don't know of you know what it is like to be addicted to drugs. You prbably don't. But lests just say i was to the point of criminal activity, even stealing from my best friends, just so I could get my next hookup. Nothing was going to stop it. I was to the point where I would inject cocaine while I was at WORK!

God, and God alone got me out of it all. Now, tell me that he doesn't exist. I'm living proof. Go head, deny my own existance. Prove that I'm not alive. Because the only way you can prove that God doesn't exist would be if you proved I didn't either.

Give it your best shot.

damn right

weak people need some one to save them. that is why someone believes in god. they cant save themselves.I also used some drugs. the famous magic shrooms and some harder stuff but i did not like it so i stopped using them. was there a god neccessary to save me? no it is all up to yourself.

Nah, I don't think they need to be "saved".

I think it all comes down to the simple fact that they fear death...they NEED to know that there is more to death than just nothingness. They can't accept it. Feel sorry for them.

What makes you the unidputed expert of the christian religion?



Oh yes, we're all afraid of believing theres a benevolant being watching out for us, and when we die, we will live in everlasting joy.



Do you actually believe your faith is going to sway the true believers in anything else?



You claim you talked to god only a few pages ago in one of the active threads... have you stopped with the drugs?



Yes, it could have.



How does any of this prove the existance of god? Because you dont feel like attributing it to anything less than a being with superpowers which is looking out after you?

Oh my word, with that post I am now seeing you and your theories in a new light. With the amount of drugs you took there is a massively high chance it has turned you into a paranoid, delusional mind, and obsessive. I used to do a fair amount of drugs at university for 3 years, although not on your scale, and i've seen what it can do to people (some of my friends were heavy drug users), and the effect it has on your mind. With the amount you took there's a high chance you are mentally screwed for life. Most of the drugs you took are mind-altering, in a very heavy way, and do irreperable damage to the brain, especially LSD and Cannabis... hell nearly all that you did will do that to you if you took the amounts you claim. I'm surprised you're not borderline schizophrenic by now, i'd say you're very lucky not to be. But paranoia at least will be a given, likely with more effects to look forward to in later life.

And God was just the idea you latched on to to get you through it, a belief, he didn't actually save you. I means eriously do you think that you couldn't have got out of it without divine intervention? I tell you mate, a lot of people get out of situations worse than that, and they do it through a combination of luck and sheer willpower, survival instinct. Divine intervention has nothing to do with it.

The drugs talk has just thrown your credibility into severe dissaray, at least for me. It really could explain a lot i'm sorry to say, though i'm glad you stopped it before it got to a stage where you couldn't get out of it, that's some relief, i'm glad for you.

I thought whenever Jesus was asked to prove something he never did it- kind of like when Satan was trying to get him to do stuff, member?

Even if Jesus was in the world somewhere around here and someone told him to "prove it" then he wouldn't, because it deals with FAITH, remember? See, I still remember this stuff.

That is a cruel unfair statement to make to this person who overcame a problem I am a recovering alky (over 18 years) and understand what poster means now you can disbelieve this theory but its real for him and that you cannot debate! He believes (like many who recover) that alone he/she could not overcome his/her problems. I realize myself that without help I could have NEVER overcame my alcoholism now call it God or whatever you wish maybe just the power of Prayer or group support. this poster believes (like many who recover) that God and God alone got them to point that they found recovery. What you "cant" explain is how he/she overcame such an illness that he/she may have tried years to overcome alone! Does God exist for many the answer is YES other NO Proof is a state of mind based on ones own life for this poster God lives! It was insulting to poster to attack his recovery! It was insulting to any with same afflictions as well. Will power has NOTHING to do with this! Try will power next time you have the TROTS! I respect your belief system as yours you own it and thats ok by me but please lets be fair to others an attacking ones shortcomings that have been over is unfair to all. This person should be commended for what he has done most don't recover I know I have worked in recovery field myself some this person should be praised not attacked!

It wasn't meant as cruel, if he did the amount of the drugs that he says he did then what I posted is a very distinct possibility. Go look up some of the drugs he has abused, they are seriously hardcore, in fact I don't think i've ever heard anyone say they've taken that much and such a variety. For him to come out of it without any long-term damage is very improbable

God does not heal people. How many people have been cured from [insert disease here] with god? 0 Humans heal people. not with god or the help from god.

It was insulting to me for him to claim that he is living proof of god... it was insulting to me when he claimed that Im scared of the alternative... it was insulting to me when he went around saying that his belief is proven and I was just closed minded... I didnt make a big deal out of it....

It's offending to me when people call me close-minded when I say I don't believe in God- when they, themselves, are close-minded to my beliefs. I hate people who contradict themselves it really makes me mad.

this person believes God helped him recover you should respect that he finds PROOF in his recovery to insult his intelligence or lack of because of his affliction was unfair and insulting. Would you want your intelligence attacked due to something in your past. I understand what this person says and I know quite a bit about the drugs etc being a recovering person and having worked as counselor in rehabs. Proof was asked for and provided in this persons view respect that but don't attack the person he should be use das role model not model of stupidity. God for each is different proof comes from within respect that debate the issue that the personality and/or illness of another I again say this person should be praised not attacked. Good job I wish many years of recovery

No ones insulting his intelligence. People are meerly considering new reasons for why he believes he talks to god and such.

What would you propose we do? If someone comes to the forum claiming to have different people living inside his brain, would you avoid any medical explenation/illness because it might hurt his feelings?

NOOOOOO!!!

I think you need to go reading through Insights' posts. He is continually insulting towards people who do not agree with him, and frequently states that others are ignorant, fools, and "children. He is incredibly arrogant, Go now and take a look through his previous posts, i'm not making anything up. I don't give people false respect, and he is by no means a role model. And yes, I truly believe the heavy drug-use affected him.

A woman in my church had cancer(forgot where) but She was expected to live only 3 months. with prayer, fasting and a change of diet. she is still living today.
also how do you that no human has been cured by God. you dont know



we all need the power of jesus to be saved.even you. The bible tells us that we need not fear the grave. for death is just a sleep.

Did she take any medical treatments?

Hmm, god saves 1 woman.... and then lets millions of others die?



How do you know that any human has been cured by god? You dont know.



Thats only your belief. Others believe that they dont need the power of Jesus to be saved.

Good night! This thread is devolving into a sandbox arguement between kindergarteners. But... first of all, believe in a deity is not a valid reason for labeling someone as a weakling. The Last I checked Saladin, Geghis Khan, George Washington.... all had a belief in some deity; I dare anyone to call them weak. As for the religous people in this brawl; it is extreme foolishness to believe that anyone should accept your belif just because you say it is "The way." People need to have either hard facts, or a personal experience before they are willing to change their belief system.

then how the hell can they be saved?

If you're trying to tell me a good, decent and honest man or woman who lives a virtuous life cannot be saved or have a place in the afterlife simply because they choose not to be religious then I would have to say that's got to be BS. If God was truly so benevolent and loving why would he discriminate against them for that, when they lived a better life than many "believers"? it doesn't make sense, just like the rest of religion and The Bible.

Use your imagination goof ball.

"for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" romans 3:23

well... if that good,decent, and honest man/woman doesnt obey Gods word they wont be saved. because as man, we are born in sinand are spiritually dead. you can be the most loving person in the world, but without God you are nothing