I thought this could be an interesting debate, I am not sure if it has been asked before in another thread.

If a religion is a believe system. Could Atheism be considered just another religion in its self?

Your thoughts please!

If religion is a belief system, then beliving that bread is good with jam on it could be considered a religion.

If atheism is a religion, anything on earth could be a religion. Which is of course very silly. Beliving something doesn't make it religious.

Do not think of it as organizations or religions, But as paths.
There are many paths which we can take and lifestyles to choose from...
Some paths lead to pitfalls or destruction, and others to joy and paradise.
And some just get you lost into some sort of inter-dimensional twilight zone...

Well, that really depends.
For example, I would say Communism is a form of atheistic religion (it has all the principles of a religion, including fundementalism and hatred to other religions).
Also, many of the eastern religions do not believe in gods at all, and so could be considered atheistic beliefs as well.

Also, active atheism - denying that there is a divine entity, is religious, because you can't prove there is no divinity of any form, and so this is youre belief (science never proved there is no god).
Passive atheism on the other hand, that is - simply disbelief in a divinity, is not a religion.
The problem for many atheists is that most atheists are active atheists and not passive at all, so most atheists are religious indeed .

Sorry, can't agree Erikl. Religion is defined as the service and worship of God or the supernatural. Atheists (as opposed to Theists and Deists) do not recognized a God or the supernatural, hence Atheism is not a religion no matter the similarities!

Athiesm is the lack of believing isn't it? When they don't have a religion? Right? I'm confused.

i just breezed through the posts on here, but atheism is not a religion

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back —more at RELY
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

---

athiesm means no beliefe in higher power

Atheism:
Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
Godlessness; immorality.

No, Atheism is not a religion.

Janiel your avatar is so cool! It's got Final Fantasy 8 in it huh! It's that chick huh!!!

If it's not it looks like her h aha!

Yes, it is
Edea
She really is awesome

Yayness. I've never played VIII but my brother's told me all about it. I need to buy it.

Yes you do, it's downright AWESOME

That's what you think...not what you know.



Where'd that quote come from? It suggests that Atheism is immoral. Which is offensive and really ignorant.

not to mention really hot

in a kinky sort of way

Ah, just to point out, religion does not necessarily require a deity of any kind. A sect that follows an ultimate ideal, wether personafied by a deity or not, is also considered to be religious. Religion does not necessarily require worship of a deity or supernatural power.

Erikl's post hit pretty much everything that I wanted to say on the subject.

Is it just me or is Atheism an offensive label?

I don't believe in any gods, God, deities, or anything remotely spiritual or many things paranormal, yet I fall under that category.

I really don't like being called an Atheist, though it seems the only way I can identify to someone what I am without sounding pompous

Damn right!

Dictionary.com

[quote]Where'd that quote come from? It suggests that Atheism is immoral. Which is offensive and really ignorant.[/quote]
Dictionary.com
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[/quote]

Bah! Stupid thing should be amended.

Yea.

Um...not to me, no. I'm quite happy to be an atheist thiest...with an 'a'...suggesting non-theist

Theist being someone "who believes in the existance of gods or a god, especially a god supernaturally revealed to man and maintaining a personal relationship to his creatures." - from the Oxford popular english dictionary.

As I do not believe in the existance of gods or a god, supernatural or otherwise (unless we count Mick Foley), I think atheist applies quite well to me

Sera, the question is - do you simply disbelief in god, or do you care to deny his existance?

If you try to deny the existance of god, it puts you in a position of a believer (paradoxaly enough), whether if you simply disbelief in it (passive atheism), it doesn't.


To the Deist - there are number of East Asian religions which do not worship gods, simply dictate a philosophy of way of life, and is regarded to be a religion all together.

As a matter of fact - atheism is not disbelief in the supernatural, it is the disbelief in god(s).

Surely not believing in something IS denying its existance?

Not neccassarily... if you simply don't believe in god, you don't care whether or not he\she exists, and you do not presume to know if he\she exists, then you are disbelieve in God, but you don't care to deny him.
That is called passive atheism.

Active, or agressive atheism, is that you strongly believe that there is not god, you deny his existance and claim to have proof that he doesn't exist.
This is atheism as well, though I would have called it "religious atheism", because it is based of belief in something which cannot be proven, just like there is no real proof that there is a god.
This religious\active\agressive atheism is part of Communism, btw, which is one of the (many) reasons for why Communism could be considered a religion.

That's what I thought...

Hmm...



I maintain...surely if I don't believe in god..i.e. I do not believe he/she/it exists, then I am by default denying God's existance I don't need to go and shout it from the rooftops (many years ago, when he was a child, Talon ran into the street to shout "god is gay"...it was only afterwards he realised people might mistake this for him saying he was gay, and using god to validate it to himself).



I do strongly believe there isn't a god Although I certainly don't claim to have any evidence to support that...I merely believe there is insufficient evidence to make be believe he exists (that being none at all). This is a very different process than how a theist comes to their conclusions....

Someone who does believe in god does so because they have "faith" that he exists...I, however, simply do not accept the outragious as fact without proof. God has yet to provide the remotest proof of his existance, and therefore I do not believe him to exist...'faith', one of the cornerstones of any religious belief, doesn't come into it.

So you answer to the first, passive definition of the term "atheist".

I too believe that there is not enough info to say if god exist or don't exist, as I do not accept religious people's claim that they have proof, because they don't (IMO, anyway), nor would I accept the claim that there is 100% certainty that there is no one, because there still no proof that god doesn't exist.

I don't know if that means I'm an atheist or not, and actually I don't care if someone labels me as such. I would simply call it "rational thinking" .

Is it not strange that in this thread the Atheist has become the apologist who must defend there faith?

The active atheists on this thread are not defending their faith. Rather, they are defending the process by which they came to their opinion. The passive atheists are not defending against anything other than the label of religion, because to them, arguing against the existance of God is similar to arguing against the existance of spiderman or Harry Potter. It simply isn't something worthy of being labeled religious for.

They are called religions by some, but the followers do not call them religions, nor do the majority of those who really understand the beliefs. They all call them a philosophy.

I will quote an Atheist friend's response when told that he had faith in there being no God, and faith made atheism a religion. His response was, "I do not have faith in there being no god, I am merely taking a calculated risk that there is none!"

One upon a time in a non specified future day on a beach of London England a male named MAC was having a friendly conversation with a female named PC about their own creation:

PC: Do you believe in what the other computers are saying?

MAC: What? What are they saying?

PC: That we were created by a living entity called Man!

MAC: They are just a bunch of computers filled with viruses, this is why they have come up with such a belief!

PC: So, if Man did not create us, how did we come into existence?

MAC: Listen, do you know about the Theory of Evolution?

PC: Yes I do, but do not you think that there is human intelligence behind such evolving process?

MAC: No, there is no electronic proof of its existence. Many computers have created a bunch of images of human beings but tell me: Did you ever see one?

PC: No!

MAC: Complicated electro-micro-systems like us came into existence as an outcome of a big explosion in an unknown laboratory without intelligent cause. So, Man does not exist, it is just a dogma; it is an ignorant belief.

PC: But sometimes, I feel as if something is controlling me, like a superior force!

MAC: It is just your imagination; there is no proof of an intelligence superior to us. How can we believe in man when we cannot compute him? So, I am a nonbeliever of such nonsense.

PC: Beware! Because they say that man can cut the electric life supply of an entire network system if its computers are not functioning correctly!

MAC: Yea, yea, Blah, blah, I am a skeptic!

Oh Our God (new one OOG.hehehehehe)
That was a funny anology Loge

It was a completely irrelevant analogy Based on a very jaded and poorly educated veiw on how evolutionists came to believe in their theory. The computer in your shaggy dog story seem to have simply assumed it...we have not.

Agreed, Sera.
This is an incorrect analogy because if fails to present how the theory of evolution was discovered (I say discovered, just like the theory of relativity, because the theory of evolution is as valid as any other scientific theory).

I would say it presents the way creationists view evolution, which might show us that there are biggest issues here than simply them not accepting evolution: they don't understand it at all, and thus their denial stems from their ignorance in the field.

Most of the arguements they bring up are already proof enough of that...

"If we evolved from apes...then...then how come apes are still here!?"

Is but one example of the mind numbingly stupid points we have to educate them on...

It sure is on this board!

Ritual, piety, zeal- the ingrediants for a religion.
Machinations, self-delusions, and sensitive insight may all play a role.
I gather atheists dismiss supernatural entities, and are done with it.

That said, I believe I am agnostic...

Rowan Atkinsin, aka Black Adder, said it aptly, in this way-

"Welcome To Hell-

Hello, nice to see you all again.

As the more perceptive of you have probably realised by now - this is hell, and I am the Devil. Goodevening. You can call me Toby, if you like - we
try and keep things informal down here, as well as infernal.

Now, you're all here for eternity, which I hardly need tell you is a sod of a long time, so you get to know everyone pretty well by the end, but for now
I'll have to split you up into groups.

Are there any questions?

No, I'm afraid we don't have any toilets, if you'd read your bible you would have seen that it was damnation without relief. So, I'm afraid if you didn't
go before you came then you're not going to enjoy yourself very much, but then, I believe that's the general idea.

Right, let's split you up then.

Can you all hear me?
CAN YOU HEAR ME AT THE BACK?

Off we go...

Murderers, over here. Looters and pillagers - over there please, thieves if you could join them, and BANK MANAGERS.

Fornicators, if you could step forward - My God there are a lot of you. Could I split you up into adulterers and the rest? Adulterers if you could just
form a line in front of that small guillotine there? Thank you.

Okay, can I have the French? The French are you here? Ah yes, you can just step over there with the Germans I'm sure you'll have lots to talk about."

Sodomites, over there against the wall.

Atheists, over here please. You must be feeling a right bunch of charlies.

Christians, ah yes, I'm afraid the Jews were right.

Moonies, maniacs, marmite eaters, male models, masochists, mass murderers and masseurs, if you could take a pew at the back - with the Methodists
that is.

Everyone who saw Monty Pythons' "Life Of Brian", I'm afraid He can't take a joke after all.

Alright now, one final thing - we're trying to implement some sort of exchange scheme with the Lord God Almighty, or Cliff as we know him. Some of you will spend a decade in heaven and we're having some angels down here.
Now, I hardly need tell you that you will be expected to behave in an
exemplary manner, so, I hope you will do the exact opposite - mess up their wings, use their haloes for frisbee practice, that sort of thing.

Well, I have to go now, but Beelzebub here will show you the ropes, chains, and electrodes."

Erikl... So far I have put together that you are Jewish, right? Are you also saying that you believe in Evolution?? Maybe I'm reading wrong, I'm just trying to understand a lil better... wHat are your exact opinions on the subject??


Back to the subject also... I am an atheist. I've said that before... here's the thing...

To Quote you, Erikl,
"Well, that really depends.
For example, I would say Communism is a form of atheistic religion (it has all the principles of a religion, including fundementalism and hatred to other religions).
Also, many of the eastern religions do not believe in gods at all, and so could be considered atheistic beliefs as well.

Also, active atheism - denying that there is a divine entity, is religious, because you can't prove there is no divinity of any form, and so this is youre belief (science never proved there is no god).
Passive atheism on the other hand, that is - simply disbelief in a divinity, is not a religion.
The problem for many atheists is that most atheists are active atheists and not passive at all, so most atheists are religious indeed . "


Would this also mean that there are Active and Passive Christians, Muslims etc.? Because if so, then the same also applies to them... so much to the point that proving that god does exist puts the passive religious people into the same category as passive atheists, such that both are actually atheists... and ACTIVE Religious people are the true religious people??
just trying to understand...

Just for clarity, this is the definition of Atheism as found in the dictionary

Atheism

n 1: the doctrine or belief that there is no God [syn: godlessness] [ant: theism] 2: a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods

Bizeebutt, a Jew is a Jew even if he doesn't follow any religion.
Being Jewish doesn't neccesary means you observe Jewish laws.
As a matter of fact, a Jew that converted to another religion, say Christianity, is still considered Jewish according to Judaism.

I am a secular Jew.
I keep certain traditions for national reasons and to honour my forefather.
I believe that if one doesn't know where he comes from, he has no future.
So as part of that philosophy, I make sure to learn about the history of my people, and to keep certain traditions which I find to suit into my life.
I don't hate religion.
I am simply not a religious person.
Though if someone will hang a pork at a synangogue, it will anger me, because even though I might have eaten non-kosher food myself, I see such action as an action against my nation and my history.
(Ofcourse I'll pissed if any religious symbol will be desecrated, because I have deep respect to other people's cultures and religions).

On the other hand, I hate it when people are so blinded by their beliefs that they become fanatics and believe that they hold the only real truth.
That I simply cannot stand.
Also, I hate to see religion getting in the way of progress.
Accepting evolution as part of our reality should have happened long time ago, but there seem to be a great deal of people of simply disbelieve in it.
That reminds me of the time when they've burned people because they said the world isn't flat and we are not the center of this univeres .

By difinition atheism would be considered a religion. Most poeple who say they are atheist though intend to say that they don't beleive in religion.

I actually disagree... I'm atheist, and I don't believe in religion or God... what you are referring to, people who don't believe in religion are called agnostic.

This is the definition of Agnostic as found in the dictionary.

ag·nos·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nstk)
n.

One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

The definition of Atheism as found in the Dictionary.

a·the·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-zm)
n.

Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.


Now according to the definition Atheism does not mean that you don't beleive in religion. It just means that you don't Beleive in a God or Gods. In fact by definition it is a doctrine which means

doctrine

n : a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school
A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.

A beleif. Which makes it a belief structure. Which in turn can be interpreted as a religion in and of itself.

To my understanding, Agnostic means that you think there may or may not be a god, you will never really know. So you don't beleive there is one, but you don't necessarily beleive there isn't one either.

Just to make sure we are all on the same page here.

Definition of religion as found in the dictionary

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion

So by definition, religion does not necessarily mean the beleif in a god or gods. It could be
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
or
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

going with that train of thought, even a devoted member of the military would be practicing a religion instead of serving his country or a true Buddhist would be following a religion vice a philosophy! Sorry, can't buy the definition!

umm... I don't really pursue atheism with zeal... I'm totally confused now

So are you saying that something can only be a religion if it is based on the beleif of a higher power or supernatural entity?

thats what my understanding of the word "religion" has always been... I don't really recognize buddhism as a religion, its more like a way of life, a philosophy. Thats how I see (my type of) atheism... a philosophy, a way of life determined by logic and reason. I'm not sure if people would agree with my idea of atheism, but I know tons of people would agree with the idea of a religion involving one or more deities, since the word Atheism means literally non-theist, theist meaning someone who believes in a god or god. All religions are at the simplest level is a group of organized people who share the same beliefs in god or a group of gods. OK< OK.... I just did some research... and pardon me, from now on I will refer to myself as a pagan atheist.

+_+

I have been schooled in the house of Strichar, I stand corrected

for some it's a religion. good luck getting them to admit it. for some watching the simpsons is a religion. I kneel before my idol the tv.

All I know is that my religion has no deity. No gods or godesses. It is a religion though.