It seems to me that blind devotion and acceptance of any so called holy or sacred works as given to man by "God" is just crazy. Born again Christians have their guy as God and the Jews are still waiting for their massiah. One sect in New York claims he came and his name was Rabbi Sneerson. Okay, I guess you can pick your guy. I respect everyone's right to believe as they choose. For me it seems totally ridiculous to put any stock into holy or sacred books written by men. I see them more as a tool of control. Believing some to be the inspired word of God handed down to men sounds like a bad fairy tale. If one is to believe the stories of Jehova in the O.T. then clearly he was an alien entity and hardly displayed any qualities one would think to attribute to a so called devine creator.

oh please grow up and stop trying to start a other war if you dont belive in the man then stop talking about him and leave us christains alone

Wow! Sorry to offend you! I thought one could discuss such matters here as the name is spirituality & Skepticism. I'm not trying to start a war as you put it. I most certainly was not attacking Christians. I don't believe as you do and was actually commenting on sacred or so called holy books. You're too sensitive!

waterjet, pay blazer no mind...this is a place to discuss spirituality and skepticism..that is what tis forum is for you know, Blazer. He attacks everyone that doesnt beleive like him. I hope you get some intellegent answers. I understand what your saying and tend to agree with you. It is something I have always had a hard time with..seems like a big book of stories. Thats one reason I am following another path. Anyway, maybe someone will have good things to share.

I know what you're talking about waterjet....

But it seems though religion gives hope to many.
It takes away part of the responsibility religious people need to take.
Heck - if I'm not controlling my life, and I am but a puppet in the hands of [place name of divinity], then life would have been much simplier.

What I find disturbing is when people become so fanatic they can't accept progress. In this case their belief works against them.

Thanks Firien! Seldom would I even discuss such matters but here it is the point.
I have changed my beliefs over the years. I feel it is not responsible to accept certain things as truth, just because it has been by so many.

i dont attack every 1 im just sick and tired of skeptics bashing christains for what they belive in and this is what he is doing i have the right to defend my self

I agree there can be good things to come from it. It does demand group think mentality which are based on accepting the holy works as God's info to man. I just don't buy it. You make good points I agree with.

lol its looks like your the brainwashed 1 waterjet

Yo Blazer!

I never bashed Christians! You say I'm brainwashed because I do not accept that the bible is God's word? You're not at all clear here.

WJ

the bible is gods word

Yes, Holy books are a means of control, but so are history books, governments, laws, rules, parents and a host of other things. If you are a believer in a certain religion you take it upon faith that the books was inspired by your god(s). So what is your point? Most religious people would agree that their "Book" controls and helps instruct them in leading their lives. In my opinion, you have a greater issue with being controlled than with religion.

Yes! Thats why this whole section is filled with posts against religion! Seldom do we see a post about how the book of Enoch is right, or how Jesus is in the line of david, or anything like that!



You dont know that. If you want to talk like that then fine. The Lord of the Rings is gods word.

Blazer, calm down. Open belligerence will never get you anywhere nor will it help your case, and you just jumped down waterjet's throat for putting out what he thinks. Nowhere in what he said was he bashing Christians; he seems to have an issue with organized religion.

No need to be so self-centered with your beliefs. When someone questions spirituality, Christians always take it to heart and feel offended. Believe me, there are many more ways to be spiritual than just following the teachings of Christ.

Let's hear what waterjet has to say. He is new and deserves that chance.

If you Christians want to be left alone, then stick to your Christian websites that let no dissenting speech be made. You come here with your delusion and you are fair game!

Waterjet did not attack your religion, he really named no specific holy book, sounds to me like maybe you are doubting your religion! Why is it Christians feel free to attack other belief systems and religions but get their knickers in a twist whenever someone questions their delusion?

why, because he doesn't accept an antique highly self-contradictory superhero comic book as "God's word"? Being brainwashed means that you believe and think what others want you to. This is what religions indoctrinate their members into, believing and thinking what the dogma says. A free-thinker like Waterjet questions and probes, trying to find the real truth, not tired mythology.

Yes, Yes, little one - show your brainwashing to the world!

Yeah... I know how you feel about having your religion bashed...

Funny ain't it.

SilverCougar, I know many Jewish neo-pagans (Wiccas, Asatruers, Judeo-Paganism), and for what I can see, all of you, no matter what youre religion is, have one good common quality - you are [still] tolerant to other people's religions.
Don't lose it.
I find it that many religions might start like that, but soon become fanatic and obssesed.

What's my point? I guess broken down I would say I've come to the conclusion that so called holy books to me are certainly not from "God" I see religion as a form of bondage.

Well it's actually whatever you think it is. So for you it is that.

It really is brainwashing. Most religions, including Christians start their kids off on religion at an insane age. Age 1 for most, even before they can talk or walk. After years of this and the parents force feeding them of course they will start to believe it, there is nobody else telling them its wrong. To a 5 year old his/her parents are always right to them. If the enemy takes a prisoner and puts him through 5 years of force feed infomation he is going to most likely break and start to believe it long before then. So take a CHILD and compare them, children are easy to manipulate and religion preys on that. Sad really...

Yeah. Children. Poor children. I think they should have a fair chance at believing what they want to believe and do their own exploring rather than having it crammed down their throats.

My friend Leah used to be kinda pgan and still exploring and then some other firend of hers talked her into being a cristian because if she didn't, "She would go to hell" and she came to me and said "I don't want to go to Hell."

Sorry I'm really tired, he he. Forgive my mispelling.

I totally agree with what you said here. I do think in most cases the parents believe they are doing the right thing. Kids don't have a choice until later on in life.
But for most it has already become a sacred cow.

Ill make you a deal. You make no more threads about us going to hell or Jesus comming back on nibiru, and creatists stop trying to push creationism into science class... and I'll stop talking about religion on this forum.

this IS a spirituality forum is it not? that doesnt mean just for christians! its for everyone..to share what they beleive ect. well thats what i thought it was, but blazer seems to think its all about him. ITS NOT!

I like where this thread is going... this is something I've often wondered about. If it is true about that "God Gene" I mentioned in another thread I started, then it seems to me that if you allowed a child to grow up in a completely religion free environment the child would still be spiritual. I know plenty of people that were raised in non religious families that later became spiritual because something moved them to it. I think the problem arises when not enough children are given the choice, they are simply fed a religion by osmosis. It would be interesting to investigate a person that grew up in the wild, say "raised by wolves" and find out what they might believe.

I have stated in many threads that I am atheist. HOWEVER, I was raised Catholic. For all of you now rolling your eyes saying, "oh thats why you're atheist" I can assure you that I made my decision at an early age with a very good reason. When most Catholic children in 8th grade make their Confirmation, I told my parents that I felt that Confirmation was an oath to God that you accept him as an adult, and this is a CONCIOUS decision. I told my parents that I did NOT want to make this OATH because I felt it would be lying, based on my feelings. I did not want to UPSET a god if there was one by lying and agreening to this confirmation before I was actually READY as an adult. IF some day I decide to make my confirmation, it will be a concious decision, and I know it will be real. IF however I do not, then I also I know I have made the right decision and in either situation I win.

MORE people should be able to make this kind of decision, and any religion should be a decision people MAKE not one their parents make for them.

by the way I just realized that I misspelled a few words:) sorry to all of you who noticed

love your name bizeebutt..lol..and i didnt notice the mistyped words. i do enough of those on my own!

thanks firien, its a nickname I've had since I was in diapers, as my name is Elizabeth... and it kinda fits my personality too;) I go by Biz to all my friends and family now. but back to those silly books...

Hopefully Blazer won't taint this wonderful thread with his impudent comments again. He needs to stop filling the thread up with repeats of what has already been said, and accept that others know what he is talking about and that it does not need to be forced upon others.

Now to get back on topic.

I do think there is brainwashing going on -- to an extent. When kids are born into Christian families, they need to know about the faith their parents hold, seemingly radical or not. Kids need to grow up with total religious freedom, so they are able to choose the path they see fit. Society needs to be more accepting of this, and I think if these forces work together, the world and society will be a lot lress cruel and a much better place to live.

Raven, he always says the same thing..even if its not about what the topic is. have you noticed that? ok yes, back to the topic. I am always getting way off track,. and bizeebutt..i dont know if can keep looking at your name with a straight face..lol..no offense..its just funny.

Raven, it seems you are a logical person as well... look at the similarities in our quotes

So about those books... it seems to me that someone can take any book, say Star Wars and make it a doctrine for a religion and many have What is it about these books that inspire so many? I know what inspires me to be a good person, its the feeling I get when I know I've helped someone, or the beauty in a waterfal with a rainbow, or the smile of a child. That to me is the reason for living... real experiences. A god that is meant to be feared (as shown in the OT) isn't my idea of someone I want to please. Besides, it seems to me that the god in the NT is selfish. DO IT MY WAY OR YOU WON'T GET INTO MY WORLD. Well some of us don't believe in that world anyway,but that kind of attitude isn't going to convinve me that HIS way is better. My way works just fine for me, and it seems to make the people in my life happy too, so I don't need any book to tell me how to be.

I couldnt have said it better, Bizeebutt. That is exactly how I feel.

firien, there's actually a funny story as to how I got that nickname... but thats for another day

heheh ok. i just put you on my AIM so you can tell me sometime. lol.

awesome:)

i havent made a post about jesus with in like a week ive stoped im just sick and tired of the fighting it gets old we will see who is wrong or right whenever we die and i promis no more jesus stuff

Me too....Gives me a headache! No more for me.

There is no "wrong" and "right". Whatever you believe is what you believe. If you believe you'll go to heaven, that's hwere you'll go. If you believe you'll be reborn, you'll be reborn.

You're the one starting with the arguing again blazer.

I absolutely find it hilarious that Christians these days claim prosecution for their beliefs!

What? You can only dish it out?

ok kat chill out hehe

Ah'm chillen.

Lol

Funny ain't it. It's like full circle.

And no Erikl, I plan not to dear. Part of the understanding is knowing the past, and knowing that there are many many different paths. And people have free will and can settle on thier own path. No need to shove my own on others. No need to roll over when other's shove thier's in my face though.

somehow this thread got off topic again, we weren't bashing each other, simply discussing how religious books are either accepted or not. Anyone care to get back on topic? I don't like hearing people attacking each other, we all know that is wrong. However... logical mature adult discussion is very appropriate here