I do not believe in reincarnation. Perhaps because I choose not to want to believe I would have to start all over as who knows what when and where. A more interesting question is ones memory. If reincarnation is true and inevitable yet one does not retain his or her memory, then it means nothing. If you do not remember anything you learned in your previous life, then you might even be worse in your next. You certainly have no chance of learning from your mistakes for you have no memory of ever making any. If everything is in some way connected then the all life concept of the universe experiencing itself makes some sense. The supreme inteligence is everywhere you look really. Maybe some believe people are like leaves on a tree. They finally fall off and die and later new ones grow. The dead ones are gone but the tree lives and more leaves come and go.

there is actually a really interesting conversation about this in my favorite movie, you should rent it... Waking Life... the conversation is about how there might be a "collective" memory in the world, the more people are born, the more collective memory we have to draw on... which might explain why we have had so many recent advances in science and technology, within the past decade. This collective memory also accounts for such things as this: An experiment was done by putting the best crossword puzzle solvers in isolation and having solve the daily puzzles. They all solved them in an average time. However, when they were in isolation still, they were given crossword puzzles from the day before. They all solved the puzzles in record time. It was as if now that the answers were already out there, solved, in multitudes... all they had to do was pluck them out of the collective memory. Kinda confusing the way I just said it, but the movie does a better job of explaining it.

Its possible that this might help to explain reincarnation as not so much being reborn into a new body with all of your previous memories, but rather a network of memories, existing in a timeless web of energy that we all create just by existing. We have each other to draw on.... Some people can read into this web more, and they are called psychics:)

by the way waterjet, I've been reading your other post, and way to go for already having as many posts as you do only being a member for a day!!

meant waterjet

I should warn you tho... this movie is Independent and very different from any movie you will likely ever see. Its a real video, filmed with handheld camera, and then each frame (wow) is hand rendered on a computor. Make sure you get the DVD because it helps to explain the way it was made. The rest of the movie is basically following one guy around in his dreams as he talks to the most interesting variety of people... ranging from philosophs to Joe Blow. Keep an open mind watching it and you will take away from it some of the most interesting things you've ever heard! also, check out Waking Life on the web. Have fun with it!!

It depends on why you think we would be reborn in the first place. If it's to fix our mistakes or learn something [which is how you put it] then what you say is true. But what if we aren't reborn to fix mistakes?

As far as I'm concerned, memory is part of the brain, just another mortal part of our bodies that dies off. It's a storage system. Obviously when we die we'd loose that, just like our liver and crap.

I, myself, think that the soul/spirit [kokoro] has it's own sense of memory in a way that if something really important of mind-blowing had happened to someone it would be, in a way, attached to their soul rather than their body. It doesn't mean they really "remember" it, only that it's a part of them. Sometimes people who claim having past lives have dreams that feel more like real-life events than dreams. Unconciously, our brain collects the information we can't see ourselves. Ever had a dream where you were falling, then woke up on the floor? Your brain is telling you "Hey, you're falling!" It has a way of warning you.

I guess it's the same way with past lives. The brain will recive messages from your inner self. For instance, how could your brain possibly know that you were going to fall off the bed if you didn't even know? It's, I guess, a sixth sense.

Gah. It's hard to explain, can you make sense of it?

I totally agree with the Kat. Reincarnation is not at all about the physical memory. Certain significant events may stick to it (kinda like bits of paper to a static balloon) and that may be why some have past-life memories (though none can say whether this phenomena is real), but overall, I think the soul is what takes away the karmic lessons learned. It seems to be the most likely after-death theory to me, anyway - one that promotes progress and change, not eternity burning in Hell or lounging in Heaven.

Yesh. Well said. Very well said. 'Specially the balloon part LOL.

You don't retain the memory of past lives because when you come back into this world you come back as a clean slate, to a certain extent. If you have any wrongs to right it will show up in your chart and will work on an unconscious level.

[quote=Ashley-Star*Child,Dec 17 2004, 12:51 AM]
[[/quote]

You don't retain the memory of past lives because when you come back into this world you come back as a clean slate, to a certain extent. If you have any wrongs to right it will show up in your chart and will work on an unconscious level.
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Interesting comments Star Child. Now can I have my chart back?

Ashley how do you reconcile reincarnation with christianity? Just curious.

just curious if anyone else has seen Waking life... and could possibly do a better job of explaining what I was trying to say. its actually quite a fascinating theory, and I did it no justice...

Well, I'm not Ashley, but there is a lot of information about Christian Reincarnationism.

Just a few links -

Christian Reincarnation

Reincarnation Research Center

Scriptural Support for Reincarnation

Did you ever notice that when SOME new babies are born...they seem to have old women or mens faces.????????????? after a few days they fill out and start to look like babies.........is it possible that we come looking as we went out and then change....?Seriously...!

never noticed that Bogey... thats fascinating tho:) do you know any links that show pictures... I'd love to see some!

I'd like to see some too.

[quote=waterjet,Dec 17 2004, 02:25 PM]
[quote=Ashley-Star*Child,Dec 17 2004, 12:51 AM]
[[/quote]

You don't retain the memory of past lives because when you come back into this world you come back as a clean slate, to a certain extent. If you have any wrongs to right it will show up in your chart and will work on an unconscious level.
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Interesting comments Star Child. Now can I have my chart back?
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LOL you want one done? I'm talking about your astrological chart.

Well, first of all, I'm not 'Christian' in the conventional sense of the word. I believe in God, and the Word of God, not the system by which it gets taught. Jesus said you have to be 'born again' to enter the kindgom of Heaven. He wasn't talking about a new type of religion. I don't want to go into it too much because I might get in trouble, but look, a soul has a sentence. Hell and Heaven still exist, and souls still do go to either place before reincarnating. A soul can chose to come back, or be sent back to right wrongs. However, the sins of the past life would have already been judged and sentenced [i]before[/b] you come back. Earth is the testing ground.

Hell is a prison. The hell of the fallen angels is called a prisonhouse.

I am Christian myself why not?
why can't we beleive in re-incarnation?
don't you?
if not why not?
what point do you have?



lightningstream

When I was two years old, I told my mother about one of my my past lives (and my mother didn't believe in reincarnation then, but after what I told her she changed her mind). I was an advanced child and I could talk fluently by the time I was one. I told my mother which country it was, where I was buried, how I died, everything. I described everything. On top of that, I told my mother (this isn't to do with reincarnation, but knowledge of the child's soul under the age of two, after which all knowledge is gone) where her grandmother (my mother's father died at 5 and her mother at 6 leaving her an orpghan. She lived which an anuty, and also the grandmother in question on weekends. Her grandmother died when she was 16, so she'd been dead a while) had left an inhertiance that belonged to her (she had to fight family for inhertiances), the exact PLACE where it had been put (some of which was jewels) and sure enough it was there. It was something I couldn't have known, and something neiother she, nor any other relative knew about. I also told her that it was her grandmother (I used her name) which wanted her to know this.

I'am going to jump in for a quick word. I am the father of three boys and though all raised the same, each one was born with his own personality. When my second son was three or four, I was watching a program on TV when a picture of the Empire State Building came on. My son says what Building it was by name, the started telling me about the interior. When I asked how he knew this, he said he had been there once ben there. I asked when? He said a long time ago! And at that moment I swear he talked like an adult.
Freaked me out,but thats why I believe God sends you back. I just don't know why.

wow Roger, thats kinda freaky... was that the only time that such an incident happened??

Maybe reincarnation can help to explain why we have Deja Vu... just a thought:D

Randy was the only kid that had knowledge of things he should not have known. But as I said each child had a personality that was, for lack of a better word, pre existing. As they grow older they learn from me and others, but the basic person is still there, only with new experience.
I guess that's why we are all here at U.M., because stange things happen and we dont understand it all.

Well, as for each having their own personality, that's normal, that's due to astrology. Everyone has their own personality, and even a minute difference can make minor differences to it and the life that's lead.

can you imagine comming back with the infinate knowledge of all the lives you lived?

You're head would pop!

[quote=Kat_Kloud,Dec 16 2004, 03:16 PM]
It depends on why you think we would be reborn in the first place. If it's to fix our mistakes or learn something [which is how you put it] then what you say is true. But what if we aren't reborn to fix mistakes?

As far as I'm concerned, memory is part of the brain, just another mortal part of our bodies that dies off. It's a storage system. Obviously when we die we'd loose that, just like our liver and crap.

I, myself, think that the soul/spirit [kokoro] has it's own sense of memory in a way that if something really important of mind-blowing had happened to someone it would be, in a way, attached to their soul rather than their body. It doesn't mean they really "remember" it, only that it's a part of them. Sometimes people who claim having past lives have dreams that feel more like real-life events than dreams. Unconciously, our brain collects the information we can't see ourselves. Ever had a dream where you were falling, then woke up on the floor? Your brain is telling you "Hey, you're falling!" It has a way of warning you.


Dreams are also affected by external stimuli, and I believe this is what results in the "falling" scenario. It's not some mystical force. It's common science.




I guess it's the same way with past lives. The brain will recive messages from your inner self. For instance, how could your brain possibly know that you were going to fall off the bed if [i]you didn't even know? It's, I guess, a sixth sense.[/I]

If you hand is numb, and it get's cut without you noticing it, does it bleed? Of course it does. It's not a sixth sense that makes the blood flow. What if you couldn't see your hand? How would you know it was cut? Would it be a sixth sense? No, you would eventually become weak, and possibly feel sick, and this would alert you something was wrong. It's cause and effect people, not metaphysics.

My brothers have often told wild stories about what they have done in the past, all of which were easily falsified. Have you ever been inside the empire state building?

If you believe in God, do you also believe in His Word? Because his word clearly makes statement against reincarnation.

Are you letting a single account from your child determine what and how you believe? You must have more faith in him than you do God.

How can you believe in The Word and reincarnation? The two are not compatible.

Whoah! Hold on there... astrology?!

Yes darling, I explained that before. GOD made astrology. The angels that fell gave away the secrets of Heaven (one of which was astrology), and their sins in that matter were 1: it was a secret of Heaven and 2: people started worshipping the stars (angels) [i[]nstead of[/i] God.

Astrology was accepted by Early Christians (the old cathedrals have zodiac signs) the four cherubim talked about in Revelation are symbolic of the 4 fixed signs, and it was only thrown out (along with Enoch) by augustine who threw out just about everything and thought everything was evil. Kinda like gnostics...

I will also mention that the 8th Heaven is for the Zodiacs and the 9th for the HOUSES of the zodiacs something ONLY used in astrology (the Ascendant, and chart wheel). I told you before, and I'll say it again, HEAVEN IS IN SPACE.

God and God's Word do NOT go against reincarnation. Christianity does (again another of Augustine's ideas, no doubt). I explained it above.

And you think its astrology that determins a persons personality!?

Oh and btw, I've told you before and I'll tell you again, HEAVEN DOESNT EXIST.

You wanna talk in absolutes? Fine, I'll do it too.

Where exactly in SPACE can I find heaven?

Where is GOD? is God everything we feel see and touch?

your basicly saying, GOD is the universe?

Please answer them questions, thanks

Ashley-Star*Child . You skipped science class a lot ?

You have a point there. But what I was trying to explain was that dreams, of all things, are one of many things that can't be fully explained. If you are simply comparing a warning from the brain with a cut on your hand while it's numb, then what about dreams that have nothing to do with warnings? There are so many different types of dreams that they can't be categorized.

I personally think that if someone were to have had a past life they might get these "memories" or relive events in a form of a dream. Also, dreams can be as simple as watching a horror movie right before you sleep and then dreaming of something scary.

Then again, only about 12 percent of our brains our used. somewhere ranging around there. meh. 10, 15, 14. What I'm saying is we may be recieving messages and not know it.

Deja vu here.

God is not invisble, God is not 'the universe' God created the universe. God is in a place that yes, when you are there is of physical surrounding, and beyond the solar system.

Science? Please DON'T GET ME STARTED.

Steller, I don't personally give a f*** what you think. Heaven does exist, but it's anyone's guess if you'll ever be seeing it. You're probably got alot of Earth signs in your chart with something in Aquarius that makes anything spiritual absolutely unbelievable to you. And there's gotta be Virgo there, you pick everything to pieces.

Before I believe there is a GOD I want him to stand right infront of me and show me it is GOD.

Why should I worship a GOD that I cannot see?

I feel it comes down to this:

Religion makes death seem like a GOOD thing, That is very bad and dangerous
Weak people need GOD, Stronger people do not. You need god to hold your hand, yet I dont believe in god and I am a good person and help people, I also know what is right and wrong.

All this stuff about jeusus and god(s) were written at a time when we didnt really understand humans, we didnt understand the universe.

People used to think that when lightening strikes GOD is angry.
People used to think that earth was the centre of the universe.
People used to think that the world was flat.
People Still think that Earth was created in 7 days. (Totally ignorant people)
People dont believe in eveloution?


I would like to know when you think EARTH was made? Because humans never arrived 7 days after the earth was created , the earth is 4.3 billion years in age. How could humans survive 7days of its making?

( we look into space and see planets being formed and we see galaxies dying and being born, we know the process and it takes millions - billions of years, not 7 days, the problem with the bibles 7 days is, We are witnessing galaxies and stars being formed as we speak!, is it just an illusion?)

Why have we discovered another species of humans (hobbits) that might even still be around today? arnt we the only humans?

So were humans 2nd best and god created dinasaurs first?... I thought he created earth for us?

You are ingorant to the facts, you cannot face upto them. you will probably answer me with what some IDIOTS wrote 2000 years ago, I dont want to hear them, I want your own answers.

and Finaly WHERE THE ****** IS GOD !

people with belief in a god. Have you ever read books on how the universe works and the case put forward about eveloution? before you start claiming that there is a god?

When I was a KID I used to believe in GOD too... but I grew out of it when I gained more knowledge of how the universe orks and how life works. I became more intelligent I guess. Now everything I read by science, it has observations and proof of concept behind it. your belief in GOD is not backed up by only faith, no evidence. Therefor how can you say it like GOD is fact?

What if I say to you, my god is Buzz ligth year and hes flying around the milky way... you would think im crazy?

NO but im TELLING YOU THAT GOD IS BUZZ LIGHT YEAR. i have no proof, but he told me. how can you tell me im wrong even tho i have no proof?

when you havnt got any proof for your case?

Before I believe there is a GOD I want him to stand right infront of me and show me it is GOD.

Why should I worship a GOD that I cannot see?

With that logic, you might as well believe the wind doesn't exist, nor or atoms of molecules.



Religion makes death seem like a GOOD thing,

Untrue. My faith defines death as the seperation from God. Definately not a good thing.

Weak people need GOD, Stronger people do not.

Precisely why God said "It is easier for a cemal to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

He also said "You must become like little children to enter the kingdom of heaven".

You need god to hold your hand, yet I dont believe in god and I am a good person and help people, I also know what is right and wrong.

You don't need to believe in Jesus Christ to be good. You need to believe in him to be saved.


People used to think that when lightening strikes GOD is angry.

Which people were those? The Greeks?

People used to think that earth was the centre of the universe.

Yep! Infact, anyone who didn't believe in that was persecuted. They everyone saw the light. Now, anyone who doesn't believe in evolution is persecuted....

People Still think that Earth was created in 7 days. (Totally ignorant people)

As long as were calling names here, I'm going to say that YOU are ignorant for believing everything they teach you in your acedemic fortress of repression (School)

People dont believe in eveloution?


I would like to know when you think EARTH was made? Because humans never arrived 7 days after the earth was created , the earth is 4.3 billion years in age. How could humans survive 7days of its making?

I can't believe you think this is a proven fact. That's like me saying "It's proven fact that the earth is only 10000 years old". We have no idea of how old it is. To say one way or another is a matter pruely of faith. Alot of christians like to say it's only 6000 years old. But none of us can ever know. We can only speculate.

( we look into space and see planets being formed and we see galaxies dying and being born, we know the process and it takes millions - billions of years, not 7 days, the problem with the bibles 7 days is, We are witnessing galaxies and stars being formed as we speak!, is it just an illusion?)

Here's the thing dude: The Bible didn't say the universe created it's self in 6 days. (yes, it was 6, not 7. Look it up) What the bible does say, is that a supernatural all powerful diety created the entire universe using supernatural powers in 6 days. This argument of yours is invalid.

Why have we discovered another species of humans (hobbits) that might even still be around today? arnt we the only humans?

Uh, you realize that saying that is like saying black people are another species of humans. Small humans are simply a small race, just like black people are a black race.

So you are saying that "little people" (AKA midgets, for those of you who aren't politically correct) are not human? Tell that to them.

So were humans 2nd best and god created dinasaurs first?... I thought he created earth for us?

Actually, God created Dinosaurs and man together. Dinosaurs used to live with man. I have even see foot prints of human tracks and donosaur tracks that supposedly fossilized at the same time, in the same rock, next to each other. You won't see that in your school text books now will you? You also won't see the fact that Washington DC's roads arer layed out in Masonic symbols. There's alot the government doesn't want us to know.

You are ingorant to the facts, you cannot face upto them. you will probably answer me with what some IDIOTS wrote 2000 years ago, I dont want to hear them, I want your own answers.

No, you my friend are ignorant to the facts. It's a common defense mechanism to insult people who cannot defend themselves, IE the biblical authors. So here are my answers, for you to see, written in the time you exist in, by a person you can talk to.

How do I know God exists? I have seen evidence of his work. I have seen things that deny every law of nature. I have seen people healed of diseases leaving doctors baffled. I have had direct prayers answered. I have seen divine beings.

The reason you don't see him, is because you don't want to. It's as simple as that. You are unable to look for him because you are afraid of the consequances should you actually find him. Therefore, to stay within your comfort zone, you will discount any evidnece brought to you, and therefore shall never see God. Why would go reveal himself to someone who doesn't want to see him? God isn't stupid.

You ask, "Why doesn't God just show himself to everybody?" Well, becase that would take away our free will. If no one could ever excape the blatant facts of God's existance, only insane people would choose not to believe in him. The reason God made man was to have a genuine relationsip and interaction with another being. For the relationship to be real, he had top design our brains to be able to either believe in him, or completely not believce in him. He loved us to the point that he actually let us turn away from him fully. He actually put information into our world to allow non-blievers to continue not believing, because otherwise, he couldn't have genuine relation with us. Remeber the old addage: That which is believed is often proven true. God purposefully put this into our heads to ensure our free will.



and Finaly WHERE THE ****** IS GOD !


He's right infront of you. But unless you want to see him, he won't reveal himself to you. But we both know you don't want to see God.

Before I gave my life fully to Christ I used to be a drug addict. I have done Magic Mushrooms well over 600 times, and LSD at least 150 times. I have smoked so much pot I could even begin to know how much it has been in total. I have had slavia that took me to another dimension. I have tried drugs you probably haven't ever heard of like LSA, 2-cb, 2-ct7, Dextromethorphan, and Dipenhydramine, to name a few. I have abused Codine, Cocaine heavily, Crack, and even smoked heroin a few times. I've stayed up for weeks on Crystal Meth. I've done Ecstacy at least 40 times. I've tried peyote, and the derivative mescalin. I've even huffed gasses. I used to drink a mickey of whiskey a day at least. I did so many drugs I couldn't support myself properly, and often chose food over drugs. And I used to mix them all too. I used to combine them for different effects. It was my hobby. It was my art. It was my science. It was my LIFE. I did so many drugs I'm lucky to still be alive, and I am deadly seriously about this. I ended up in the hospital more than once. And I can assure you, drugs are not the way to God. They are not the path to God. And they will not show you God. Trust me, I thought I saw God on many occasions. I even thought I talked to him. But it was all deceptions.

I couldn't quit. No matter how I tried, I couldn't quit. No matter how I wanted to, and believe me, I wanted to, I couldn't quit. i went to Rehab 3 times. I went to alcoholics anonymous. I tried it all. And the only thing that worked, and I mean the ONLY thing that worked was having God come into my life. Infact, you could say that I would be dead right now if it wasn't for him. Either that, or I would be in jail, or living on the streets. Now I have been blessed with wealth, a house, and everything I need. And none of it could have happened without divine intervetion.

I don't know of you know what it is like to be addicted to drugs. You prbably don't. But lests just say i was to the point of criminal activity, even stealing from my best friends, just so I could get my next hookup. Nothing was going to stop it. I was to the point where I would inject cocaine while I was at WORK!

God, and God alone got me out of it all. Now, tell me that he doesn't exist. I'm living proof.

jesus saying born again means baptism by submersion(not the catholics sprinkling of water).where in the boble does it say the soul goes to either place before reimcarnating. thats bull$hit. you are mixing christianity woth buddhism. if souls were allowed to come back why would God need to judge humans.

You're the f***ing idiot. I already explained dinosaurs, go back and read the posts. I don't have to keep repeating myself.

ashley, you claim to follow and believe the bible yet you believe in the reincarnation of the soul. that is not of the bible's teachimgs.

I know someone who was a drug addict, and major dealer, and through what could be termed 'divine intervention' went completely clean of drugs. It was a near impossible task.

This person DID see God, and God said to him 'If you don't get off the drugs, I'm going to take (daughter's name, who was a baby at the time) back' (or off you) and sure enough his daughter almost died. This happened twice, each time he tried to get off it, but slipped. He still didn't heed the consequences, but, then his wife saw people from Heaven (she'd seen those of Heaven before she even MET her husband and was told she'd marry him - though by her standards, he definantly wasn't someone she'd normally go for, but the soon-to-be-husband kept pushing, and she gave in) and how many children she'd have, furure global events which DID come true, etc) eventually, he did, and he came completely clean of drugs. I won't tell you if the daughter lived or not.

thanks for replying insight

Don't tell me what to believe. You don't have to agree with me, but don't tell me what's in the Bible or not. I've already explained how it fits in. However, some things aren't seen by everyone, so if you don't want to accept it, don't, I don't want it on my head.

I've explained it and it you can't understand it your not meant to. And it sure as hell ain't buddhism.

care to refer me to some scriptures

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3948165.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3964579.stm

please take a look at them 2 articles.


ashley. Lets say in 20 years from now Cryonics revived the First person, that person have been dead for 50 years. But through Nanotechnology and advanced biotechnology he/she was rivived.

Would that person then have a soul, Would that person have seen heaven? What if that person said they experienced nothing and time went by in a blink of an eye because he didnt experience TIME because he was well... dead.

Yes it is possible to revive certain animals, cells, brain to the point where decay STOPS. and some animals can be revived after they are thawed. Also we have frozen embryos for a long time , yes it was human life at the beggining, then after being frozen for however long they used it and now it was a human being.

Also what about when Humans Drowned and are dead for hours, the only reason they come back to life is because they were frozen, where decay was almost stopped.


I just would like to hear your answeres to them questions, actually any answer it. Even tho its not yet possible with technology, science says it may be possible with nanotechnology by repairing damage at celluar level