http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t=0#entry413924

There is a thread here which Ive explained about why we might be made from a creator, a super intelligent designer.

Im not a firm believer in god, or religion. IM simply challenging science theories and trying to asnwer them.

Id like Believers and non believers in GOD and religion to join the conversation, but with intelligence and respect for both arguments.

its the only argument that Ive seen on this forum that Indicates intelligent design

Hope you can join in.

Thanks

Matt

If you're looking at intelligent design, look at yourself. Look at the world around you. There is NOTHING you can look at that wasn't created by an intelligent designer. Your house, furniture, TVs, VCRS, computers, your body works perfectly. When you cut yourself, your body goes through a process and releases certain chemicals that clot your blood so you don't bleed to death. It's all amazing and designed to work perfectly.

And even better it's all 100% natural!

it is called evolution. we adapted to the circumstances of earth

LMAO thats not even remotely relevant to whether man was created seeing as we made them ourselves and have direct proof of this... TERRIBLE example!

Well, now you've done it! You've just proved that God had to be created.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t=0#entry413924

Check out the last post I did.

Im not sure if any of you quite understand what im trying to say.

But it has a great example at the bottom

Umm it says the page no longer exists mate...

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...pic=29654&st=30

I see what you're trying to say, I just don't agree.

Im all for science being able to explain this 1 day, I dont believe in a Creator, Well I hope there isnt 1.

But I think ive put a point forward probably the best argument yet of why there could of been a designer

Check out these scientists Quaotes. They cant believe what they come with too

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/quotes.html

Now these are scientists! , physicists, They want to believe in it all being mathematic and natural.

the source is not credible they are prejudiced. not to start anything but they use the bible to explain things. I have seen enough proof to say that the bible is incorrect and copied of other myths but that is offtopic

I was watching something on TV last night to do with this very subject. nearly every scientist is totaly confused by it. They all agree its almost impossible unless there are multiple universes where one universe would get the values Correct. us.

This isnt a religious vs science argument.


its the scientist themsevles that discovered it and are now Questioning thei own beliefs and facts about the universe

But for scientists to say there are multiple universes, something they can never test, something that with just be based on Faith, That is not what science is about.

THAT is the ONLY way Science can save itself with our current knowledge of the universe.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites...arewereal3.html

This is the TV program that made me Bring up the subject. I watched it obviously. But they have it type out in Txt on the website.

There are 1 - 6 short pages. Check them out and it might explain it better. its not all the show i watched, but the basics of it

A good place to start (if you haven't already read it) would be to check out "Human Devolution" by Michael Cremo. It has a different take on evidence that intelligent design was at work in the creation of the universe. It is the one of the few non-Christian takes on a complete cosmology; he is a follower of Vedic teachings. However, unlike most creationist arguments I have read, Cremo does not rehash the same "biological evidence" like the complexity of the eye, he provides what he considers evidence that bespeaks of "fine-tuning" the physics of the the universe (i.e., gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak forces, etc.). His argument rests or falls, however, on whether or not you consider it relevant that that without the physics of the universe so finely calibrated not even stars could form (i.e., just because it is highly improbable that the universe is so finely calibrated isn't proof of God, it's might possibly be that this is not the first or only universe to ever be created by happenstance). It is relevant if you only believe one universe/reality is created at a time, but not so relevant if you believe in multiple universes/realities.

Let me know if you wish a more detailed explanation of his evidence.

Good luck on the thread!

If you have already made up your mind, no physical evidence will convice you things of spiritual and divine nature.

The universe is a holograph, the brain is a holograph, energy is holographic, you are energy. you do not exist on only one level of the holographic world at one time, you are energy so you are in every piont in every place at every time, emotions you feel are due to the world you create around you.

I'm not really fully convinced either way. I do think of myself as a Deist, though, and find it mind-boggling and frankly hard to believe that everything could have ultimately resulted from energy colliding. Some things are so intricate, for example: the way the eye works or the fact that there are 2 sexes and we don't just duplicate ourselves (which would be an 'easier' way to reproduce) leads me to think there was something else behind it than just random chance.

I don't know. Like I said, I'm not fully convinced of either, and there is no irrefutable evidence supporting one or the other.

The eyes are amazing eh? Our eyes are made of energy like a magnet, our magnetic eyes attract other energy to create an impression of energy or projection into our mind, of course some of us that are blind usually are missing a piece the physical body which causes the images to be unclear.

actually what is simpler, taking vanilla pudding and mixing it in with chocolate to get brown or taking both and comming out with one or the other, its easier to procreate how we do than just duplicate each other

I mean genetically duplicating oneself. Sure, genetic diversity is wonderful for higher organisms, but it's much simpler on the cellular level to just divide rather than search for a suitable mate and attempt to rear young. I think it's hard to imagine, in a purely evolutionary sense, a more perfectly functional creation than a single cell organism. Why would it have had any reason to change?

i would suggest the book Rare Earth by Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee. it is a secular book examing some of the unusual characteristics of the earth and our galaxy in support of the authors' opinion that complex life is extraordinary rare in the universe.

You are totally right.


And in response to everyone else here:

Blah blah absolutes blah blah blah evidence blah blah prove it blah blah blah Your an idiot blah no I'm not blah blah blah right wrong right wrong blah blah blah

?? I realize that is your Stellar/Richdog/other people you argue with impersonation, but so far this thread has stayed on topic. I've admitted to an open mind on this topic, isn't that what you are always complaining is lacking?

Geez...sometimes I feel like the only way to actually get anyone to respond to what I have said is to try to start a fight.

The Intelligent design to our existence is not some large creator or designer that creates our idividual life, it would effect the law of free will. We design our own life and reason for living. 2 Laws that can make it easier are Free Will or choice and energy can not be created or destroyed. That right there is the answer to it all, but something so simple would not be nearly as fun as searching for any truth we want. It is our free will to understand the perception we want to. No one is on the same path as the other but we use clues to achieve our goals and those clues come from the reflection in others eyes. Does that kind of make sense? The world is our mirror, every time we look in the mirror we learn a little more about ourselves.

Listen...you can't see God and these people obviously don't believe in what they can't see. If you look at our world, you can see that there's more to it than just what seems rational or what you can see. I was watching a show the other night about a woman who went to the hospital for surgery and ended up dying on the operation room table. She was dead for five minutes and the doctor even started to write her off as dead. She then suddenly reached up and grabbed his arm, startling the doctor. Her pulse and brain waves and everything else went back to normal and she recalled that she floated above her body, saw all the surgeons who were operating on her, could describe what tools they used, then she continued to float up past the two remaining floors of the hospital and found herself on the roof. What she saw on the roof was a pair of red tennis shoes. She told all this to the doctor and he didn't believe her until he checked it out himself. He went to the roof of the hospital and found the red shoes.

There's another story of a 8-year-old girl who was hit by a car and she was clinically and brain dead. The doctor told her parents that she was dead, but later she fully recovered and had an amazing story to tell. She said that she went to heaven and actually met Jesus. She said she was having fun and wanted to stay, saw her dead grandmother, but Jesus told her it was time to go back. She said no, that she was having too much fun, then Jesus asked her if she wanted to leave her mother alone and the girl said no and she instantly awoke.

Can these things be explained? People who die and say they visit heaven, see dead relatives? They says the brain makes those things up, but what about those to see what's going on around them and even in other rooms of the hospital? Can all the stories or miraculous healings from once diagnosed terminal cancer be because the mind willed it? No. Ghost stories, angel sightings, demonic possessions, biblical prophecies that nobody can say is fake because they can't prove it and the history of the bible...it's all compelling. If we evolved, then none of it can be possible. You say you hope there is no creator? Why? You want this life to be all there is? Once you die, that's it? We just exist and for no reason?

i can care less if there is a creator or not, i understand that all i am and all everyone else is, is an animal, just like a dog, just like a cat, just like a bird, just like a whale, ect ect, we are no better or different than any animal except that we are smarter, thats the only thing that sets us apart, there is no reason to believe there is an after life, there is no reason to believe in a god or heaven or a hell, what is the purpose of these places? i used to believe in santa clause as a child, even though i never saw him, same with the tooth fairy and the easter bunny, i believed in these obviously made up characters because they left "proof" of there existance.....the proof later on is found to be a conspiracy through your parents, what proof do we have that god exists? will we later on find out it is a conspiracy through our universe and/or mind? i think so

I'm sorry, but I have missed the original purpose of this thread. I followed the first link back, but I could figure out what the question is.

Is this thread to discuss the pros and cons of intelligent design, or to discuss its credibility? Or is it something else entirely?

I am not sure I understand because I do not believe in god on the same context as most. The word is so widely used it could mean anything, we all have our own way to connect to this "higher power" and it is our own convictions if some belives or not. I on the other hand do not believe in god. I believe that because our energy is always connected we almost all together create a higher essence of energy combined and that presence of energy feels like god or feels like a positive pull. We think we are being sucked into heaven but really are energy is simply taking on the next or new form of choice.



Of course all these things are well proven, but we must all respect the fact that not all of us want to concentrate on the ghostly or weird experience level. Some of us may already understand and be looking for the next level and some of us are learning completely different things that seem so old, it depends on how the person chooses to learn. I am understanding the topic is to bring curiosity to others about the theory that some one or thing is in complete control of the design of our physical state... I totally could be wrong though. I simply want to offer my opinion that yes we are but no one would have the control but us our selves because of the laws of free will.
Thank you

Ive actually Grown up. And just like ive grown out of santa clause.

ive grown out of religion.

Ive now gone past religion. Religion says, Everything is here in a book, You dont need to do anything, dont ask questions... here it all is so get on with you're life, everything is sorted.

That bad. We should be glad that 10% of americans are intelligent (non-believers. Because if everyone agreed. Who would ask the questions. We would no longer look for a deeper understanding of questions like these.

how humans got here. How did the universe come into existence? has it always existed etc etc..

I do not believe its a question of " what are we here for " we know what we are here for. To have sex. make babies. carry on the human race. Its NO more complicated than any other species on this planet.

Spirtual people are still stuck and cant move past Life without a GOD to guide them.

What its a question of? What are the questions you are asking and what are the answers you are looking for? Or are you only looking for the truth?
Sometimes the smallest thing can be the most difficult would you agree?

how can the sun grow to swallow planets when it's resources of hydrogen are low to gain more energy to burn? Have you seen the photos of the sun that swallowed it's moon...It got smaller as it resources dropped....then it grew 4 times it's size and swallowed its moon whole..Hubble telescope had the video of it.

You have no proof whatsoever that the Bible is not credible. YOU are prejudiced. Even 40% of the scientific world don't agree with you LOL! You know why? Because no matter what they come up with, like I said in another post, the result is more fairytale Disney than what has been believed for millenia.

You: 'Oh the Earth just made itself'
Me: 'Yeah and my cigarette just spontaneously combusted'
You: 'But it evolved over time you see - like dinosaurs to birds, can't you see the resemblance???'
Me: 'Yeah, and my cigarette just evoloved into the Loch Ness Monster'

LOL

The reason the bible is not credible is because it shares all the properties of a book of fiction, including references to historical places and people, but none of the corroborating evidence from other cultures, such as the multiple accounts from different countries concerning a man called Alexander the Great. One cannot use the source of a story as proof of the story, or you would be forced to accept the existance of Spiderman and Harry Potter as much as you accept the existance of God.

Now, as far as your 40% goes, even if every quote there was was not taken out of context (which I do not believe for one second), it is, ultimately, not referring to their scientific work, but rather to their beliefs. Beliefs and science are two entirely different things. Beliefs have no standards of verification, nor requirements for validity. The belief that an omnipotent God rules over all of mankind and the heavens needs no more support than a basketball players belief that not washing his socks will help him win the game. Science, on the other hand, does have very well defined standards for verification and credibility. If one does not meet those requisites, then one cannot call oneself scientific. It does not mean that any given phenomena does not exist, but it does mean that it is not a valid scientific explanation. I have a belief in the supernatural, however I have never put forward that that belief is supported by science. It is simply a belief, nothing more.

Then you have no proof whatsoever that every other religion (including the Raelians) are not credible! There for, YOU are prejudiced.



You know thats more fitting to your god than science.



And all of them believe the exact same thing as you, with no deviation?



Wanna pick a story and compare it to the bible?