I'm a little wary of starting this thread because of the subject matter and the fact that it's probably considered 'old news'. However, the movie was so moving, and one of the clearest examples of governmental cover-ups (and just down right screwing up) that I really would like to hear if anyone else has seen it and what your thoughts might be.

The title is 'Waco: Rules of Engagement', was made for HBO by William Gazeki, and was nominated for an Academy Award for best documentary in '02. It doesn't pull any punches and really sheds light on what actually happened in Texas. I remember April of '93 very clearly, and what the media was describing as the "actual events unfolding" is not even close to what this documentary shows through taped phone calls, infrared video, interview footage, forensic evidence, etc. Governmental and law enforcement officials are caught dead to rights in lies or deception. It was truly horrifying to me and I think it's terrible that these 'different', but decent, people had not only their lives destroyed, but will be remembered as fanatical and dangerous lunatics, which really doesn't seem to have been the case at all from the evidence that has been presented.

The movie has been playing on the Sundance Channel and True Stories. If you get the chance to see, I recommend it.

wow. SOunds to be pretty good. Waco was when they had the big shoot out with the feds, in the barn and stuff? I dont really know much about it, but i think i'll look it up. Another amazing documentary is Farenhieght 9/11. Amazing film. Go get it. IT sheds light on a lot of things.

Ok, the offical site of the documentary is http://www.waco93.com/

And a few more sites about Waco, courtesy of JennRose

http://www.constitution.org/waco/mtcarmel.htm

http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/waco-a25.shtml

WARNING! GRAPHIC IMAGES THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY FIND DISTURBING!

Some sites are more trust-worthy than others. The first 2 sites have lots of good links as well.

I have read a bit on Waco and I've seen the documentary you speak of JennRose; or one similar to it. In my opinion, the attack on David Koresh’s commune in Waco Texas was an illegal attack against US citizens by the US military. Meaning police are meant to protect the citizens of the US and only use force when absolutely necessary, but the military / ATF / Tanks / automatic weapons etc... are meant to kill people.

The Feds had no solid proof of any illegal activity but they went in anyways saying things like:

1) David is stock pilling weapons!

No – he had a firer arms license and was a legitimate guns dealer.

2) He was molesting the children

Maybe he was but there was never any solid proof. One girl clamed that she was molested by Koresh but later she recanted.

Hardly reasons to go in with tanks and kill everyone!

When the feds came to arrest Koresh they said he and his people fired at them first. Hmmm why is there no proof of this, no video at all to show what really happened. There is however, an audio recording of a phone conversation between Koresh and a Fed or ATF official that clearly shows Koresh stating he would let a few feds in to inspect his home, but the feds refused the offer and ordered Koresh to come out -obviously Koresh did not.

A big point to make to me is – all of the brute force of the US government was completely unnecessary and more fanatic then Koresh and his followers would have ever been. The US could have easily arrested Koresh when he was out and about, not like the man never left home – wow did I come up with that all by myself!? Why then did the US government do what they did? There are many reasons I’m sure, but I believe it has to do with religions zealots and their so called duty to the world.

Why do you think it went down the way it did?

There are a lot of connections with Waco Texas and other events that have taken place in the US. One of them was the Oklahoma City Bombing by Timothy McVeigh.
McVeigh made clams to Gore Vidal, whom McVeigh asked to be interview by before he was executed, that in part he did the bombing in retaliation for Waco Texas and other similar insadences of the military attacking its civilions. We of course, were only told he was a killer and ever more so, a kid killer.

Did the US not kill kids in WACO TEXAS!

I am not surprised people have not made a big stink about all of this. After going though this last US election I can see how the people of WACO were made out to be crazy people; that in turn, made the public have little sympathy for the atrocity that took place in their land of the free. McVeigh was also made out to be crazy and motiveless, when in truth, he was fighting back at the system that is attacking all of us.

Ok I’ll stop now cause I’m getting

The dialog of Gore Vidal and McVeigh

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...609567?v=glance

I've watched the Waco documentary, the local video store still has it. It is in fact shocking and heart wrenching to see the police pumping poison gas into the building to kill those babies. Shocking also was our "objective" medias huge PR campaign after 911, trying to make all police out as heros. Clinton and Reno should have been hauled into the town square and made to feel those kids pain after Waco.

As far as the Michael Moore "documentarys" are concerned, I don't put any stock in them. Moore is the P.T. Barnim of politics, a bottom feeder who manipulates tragic issues and events to get rich.

Don't necessarily agree with the theory on Koresh, but I definitely feel the government made a mistake in the way they handled it. They could have waited until he went to town and picked him up there with no problems. Would have saved alot of money to.

Well said! The sad thing is I agree with him, in theory, on many issues, but he's such an ass, he almost makes me change my mind.

Edit: could I possibly fit anymore commas into that first sentence??

Yeah, thats true about Moore.


What the feds did in Waco was horrible. I see no difference between those feds, and terrorists like McVeigh, or Bin Laden.

first of all Ferenheight 9/11 is a lie. Go rent Ferenhype 9/11. or just go to www.bowlingfortruth.com or www.moorewatch.com

Yes I have seen the Waco documentary, and it is just sick. Janet Reno, Wesley Clark, and Bill Clinton should all be in jail right now, awaiting the same fate as McVeigh.

It makes me sick that the Democrats in the Senate have a huge problem with Alberto Gonzales who made some poor judgements that added to the torture in Abu Griabe prison. But yet, Clinton kept Reno for 8 years even after her poor mis-judgements that caused the torture and murder of innocent American men, women and children who did nothing but worship their religion. How bout when Reno ordered the Feds to terrorize poor little Elian Gonzales? Reno is probably the worst AG we have ever had. and the Dems cry about Ashtcroft, give me a break.

The Waco Doc. is just one of the many doc's exposing the gov's " " side....there is without a doubt no difference between our Government and the likes of the so-called "terrorists" If you'd really like to see a doc on 9/11 watch "9/11 The Road To Tyranny" by Alex Jones this man does not funk around, much more hard hitting then moores and is packed full of actual irrefutable evidence that the government orchestrated 9/11 just to get the Police State rolling as Hitler did to the Reichstag government building to get people in a state of terror and have the government point the finger at "who did it" to get the people to shift into mindless "group-think" and go after the government manufactured enemy. See my friends its a simple rule of politics that rulers have been using since the time of Nero until now with Bush Jr. and that rule is to quote a masonic saying "Ordo Ab Chaos" or order out of chaos they create the problem, engineer the wanted "reaction of the people" and then create the "answer" to the said "problem" which they themselves instigated in the first place!! i could go on an on and on...... EDUCATE YOURSELFS PEOPLE!! STOP WALLOWING IN IGNORANCE WORRYING ABOUT 20inch RIMS AND A SIX-PACK STOMACH WHILE ALL OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ARE BEING REVOKED.....SOMETHING MUST BE DONE....A CIVIL WAR OF SORTS....MAYBE THE NRA ISN'T SO CRAZY AFTER ALL....

ok you guys are obviously oblivious to the whats really going on-i dont know which post is worse but im not going to get into it for fear of getting vile-this link has the potential to change your life it is unadulterated reality rooted in the truth-scroll to the bottom of the and watch the "new" stuff on waco and when your done there check out alex jones "9/11 the road to tyranny" and "police state lll total enslavement"
this page is the best source for information you will find-all downloads are 100% free-everything here-also watch "painful deceptions" "in plane site" "the greatest lie ever sold" --you wont regret it!

Alex Jones
INFOWARS.COM
PRISONPLANET.COM
PRISONPLANET.TV

9-11 The Road to Tyranny - Excellent
9-11 The Road to Tyranny DVD Extra
America Destroyed by Design
American Dictators
Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports
Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove
Masters of Terror - Excellent
Matrix of Evil- Excellent
Police State 2000
Police State II - The Takeover
Police State III - Total Enslavement - Excellent
Wake Up or Waco

Clips
Alex Jones' Analysis of WTC7 - Owner of the World Trade Center Complex admits controlled demolition on PBS
Alex Jones on CSPAN
Martial Law 9-11 Rise of the Police State (trailer)
Black Helicopter Hell
Warning of the dangers of Vaccines
Enron


Michael Moore
MICHAELMOORE.COM

Fahrenheit 9/11 - Part 1 -Weak
Fahrenheit 9/11 - Part 2 -Weak


Texe Marrs
TEXEMARRS.COM

Gulag USA - Concentration Camps in America
The Bloodstained Hands of Big Brother Government


Benton K. Parton
Brig. Gen. U.S.A.F. Retired

Globalism - The Program


Dave vonKleist
THEPOWERHOUR.COM

9-11 - In Plane Site - Controversial


George Humphrey
FEARORLOVE.COM

9-11 The Great Illusion - Part 1 - Excellent
9-11 The Great Illusion - Part 2 - Excellent


Eric Hufschmid
ERICHUFSCHMID.NET

Painful Deceptions - An Analysis of the 9-11 Attack


Anthony J. Hilder
FREEWORLDALLIANCE.COM

9-11 The Greatest Lie Ever Sold


Misc. Videos
Interview with Sibel Edmonds
Interview with Ellen Mariani
Debunking In Plane Site
NASA footage - UFO
Futuristic police robot video
Secret Rulers - Ruby Ridge
Secret Rulers - Satanic Elite
RFID Revolution
Who Controls The Children
Finally The Truth Behind Them All!
Horrified
Chemtrails
Zbigniew Brzezinski
Ron Paul
Capitalist Conspiracy
Bio Tests on U.S. cities - Thanks Uncle Sam
Anthrax Investigation
CCTV
Israeli organized crime and wiretaps
Moyers-Hentoff
The Mena Connection
The Georgia Guidestones
UN Future
UN Deception
Secrets of the CIA Part 1
Secrets of the CIA Part 2
Secrets of the CIA Part 3
Lone Gunman Pilot - pre 9-11 clip of jet flying into the WTC
LSD Being Tested on British Troops
Jeremy Glick Interview
Drug Raid on School - Police with guns drawn on kids - no drugs found
Cointel Pro - War on Black America
Bush jumps into action on Sept. 11, 2001 - AKA - his alibi
Constitution Class
Constitution Class - Part 1
Constitution Class - Part 2
Constitution Class - Part 3
Constitution Class - Part 4
Constitution Class - Part 5
Constitution Class - Part 6
Constitution Class - Part 7

Waco The New Revelation
WACO NEW REVELATION Part 1
WACO NEW REVELATION Part 2
WACO NEW REVELATION Part 3
WACO NEW REVELATION Part 4
WACO NEW REVELATION Part 5
WACO NEW REVELATION Part 6
http://mcslyg.homeip.net/documentary/

We need to remember that just because a writer/director produced a self-proclaimed documentary does not deem it's content 100% truth. I have seen several documentaries on the Waco disaster and none of them seem to display the same content or attitude towards the parties involved. Writers of these more sensational types of documentaries have one thing in common, the dollar sign. I enjoy some of the docs. produced by HBO but I trust the content as truth about as far as I can throw a buick. Also, most American kids around my age ( I am 26 ) watched the horror of Waco unfold in front of us for months on Channel One. For those of you that don't know, Channel One was (and I am assuming still is ) a news-based program for young adults played in home-rooms and study-halls in American high schools. We watched as Karesh cronies repeatedly denied access to the Waco compound, the release of the children being held their and the escapees who told their story to the press about what was going on in there. It was frightening as a young person to watch this unfold.
I guess if we all believe that the government is out to get us then we are pretty stupid to be posting all these conspiracies on a public website that most likely has feds watching it around the clock . The moral of this story could be; don't break the law by purchasing massive amounts of illegal weapons, brain-wash adults and hold small children hostage. I am not too worried about government agents chucking tear gas through my window or burning my house down because I won't even smoke pot due to my residential proximity to a school ( a big no-no in the eyes of the law ).
On a personal note; what went wrong at Waco was horrible because innocent children died. As for the leaders and willful adults, I think they knew exactly how it was all going to end; that they would become martyrs. That is just my opinion though.

well thats funny all these are available at no charge unless you want an original hardcopy--hbo?please if you havent watched "9/11 the road to tyranny" then you have not experienced unbiased reporting-nothing in alex jones videos are presented without the source-watch that one video if you havent -alex constantly reminds people to make copies of his docs and urges people to distribute them-the material concerning the oklahoma murrah building attack is enough to realise that the truth is obviously being "actively suppressed" - its obvious you have had the opportunity to examine the govt's version i recommend you at least sample the one video mentioned so that you can have a taste of the opposite end of the spectrum-i think youll find that the truth is easier to defend than a lie

please detail which aspects of moores documentary was a lie-i will gladly watch the videos in question if you can demonstrate a single lie presented by moore who blatantly side stepped all the "major" issues while pretending to expose the administration with petty facts and distractions from the truth-
everyone should have huge problems with alberto gonzalez who did much more than make poor judgements-anyone with family in iraq should be furious as he is soley responsible for the any acts of torture that are perpetrated on our troops in retaliation to the us's actions-dog attacks,drowning and beating men in restraints are not the actions of a rational and just society--when the realization of the facts,that arab hijackers could not have perpetrated the accusations in question,sink in it can be horribly sickening!!!

Update: Abu Graib Torture Architect Alberto Gonzales is Pro-Abortion, Has Shady Connections to Enron
today CNN Reported:

"As a member of the court, Gonzales ruled with the majority that some teenage girls should not be required to get parental permission for an abortion." The complete article is posted below.

and on November 6, Knight Ridder Reported:

"Gonzales also has connections to scandal-ridden energy giant Enron. He is a former partner in the Houston law firm Vinson and Elkins, which represented Enron. He also received $6,500 in campaign contributions from the company when he ran for re-election to the Texas Supreme Court." The complete article is posted below

Here's some background info:

On June 13, 2004 the London Telegraph reported that Constitutional experts were shocked by Gonzalez's memo, which told Bush that the nature of the war on terror "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions"

On June 16, they also reported:

"A string of leaked government memos over the past few days has revealed that President George W Bush was advised by Justice Department officials and the White House lawyer, Alberto Gonzalez, that Geneva Conventions on torture did not apply to "unlawful combatants", captured during the war on terror."
************************************************
Legal experts slam torture policy process

White House rebuffed memo saying Bush could be above law

San Francisco Chronicle | June 24, 2004
by James Sterngold

The White House took an unusual step by releasing a thick stack of documents to defend itself against charges it had authorized the abuse of war prisoners, but a number of experts said the most significant decision may have been the administration's disavowal of the memo contending the president can claim he is above the law on torture if he says he is defending the country.

The 2-year-old legal analysis said only the most egregious physical abuse constituted torture under the law and concluded that the president and the soldiers he commands were effectively exempt from any anti-torture treaties or criminal statutes.

The memo's fundamental position has turned into the one issue that experts from both sides of the political spectrum have condemned.

While the White House's efforts Tuesday were clearly aimed at quelling the mounting anger over reports of prisoner abuse, the repudiation of that lone memo -- one administration official called it irrelevant -- has enraged some legal experts and refocused attention on the unilateral methods President Bush has chosen to employ in the war on terror.

"What they have done is preposterous," said Eugene R. Fidell, an expert on military law and president of the National Institute of Military Justice, a Washington think tank. "Calling the memo irrelevant is a pretty lame way of getting out of this. But the reality is that the thinking here was the foundation stone of their policy.

Perhaps you should not assume so much about my exposure to opposing facets of medial integrity. I have watched, studied and researched both aspects of this issue and have come to the conclusion that a two-hour documentary can send whatever message chosen by it's creator while presenting information that is based on fact. Falling for that sort of rues would make all those college dollars and hard earned A's useless to me. The truth is an illusion because people wish to believe that every confrontation can and must be simplified to black and white. Others are not so nieve, myself for one. I thank you for your suggestion at exposing myself to opposite ends of the spectrum but as you can plainly see in my previous post and the body preceding this sentence that my exposure is ad nauseum et cum laude. Just because I don't subscribe to Michael Moore and others of the like does not mean I trust the actively suppressed information that comes from the government more or less. It only means that I am selective in what I believe and not what I expose myself to on a regular basis. Also, a quick spell check and proof-read would do wonders for your credibility as lack of proper punctuation and use of capitol letters give the air of one not typing in the heat of passion.

i dont mind explaining this-ive explained many times but it is pertinent-first of all this is just a forum and i would never waste time editorializing my every comment-also i intentionally keep my print noticeable to distinguish moments where i am uncertain as to where and if i was pasting and more importantly whether others are qouting me or putting words in my mouth or possibly even quoting a paste i submitted-also i lost the tip of one of my index fingers in an accident and skipping capitals and every punctuation stems in part from the minor adjustments that must be made-im not interested in the being deemed credibile by those that would judge based on vanity--so can i get your assessment of the "northwood" documents presented by alex jones in road to tyranny?are you familiar with the saying "if someone does something once they are inclined to do it again"?

You made my day, sonofone. Awesome answer and comeback.

I have also stated, three times as of now, that I expose myself to information presented by Alex Jones and many others. I am just a bit more selective than some when it comes to taking a movie that states "based on a true story" for gospel. I also would not and do not put words in the mouths of others. I don't assume that people think a certain way due to their posts either. Never once did I make that mistake. Think of me what you will. *hugs*

You have also done wonderful job avoiding the content of my last post and focussing on the tag message regarding language. Kudos for that as well!

I just watched it tonight. I think it was another government cover up. Those poor people didn't have a chance. What a shame!

Waco = Unjustifiable sickly obscene deeds commited by YOUR wonderful American Government. Just like Jonestown, and numerous others.

I thought it sick and disgusting and vile the way those poor waco people were treated. really i can't think of any words for it but four letter words. i cried for the children who never had a life, and for the mothers trying to bring them up christian. maybe christianity isn't so good, huh? maybe with people like Reno and Bush being such good christians, we might want to reconsider. Thats hard for me to actually admit, being a christian all my life, but it seems like churches are filled with not the flock jesus wanted but with hard assed followers of dumbed-down government blind screw you unless you have money for the plate people! pheeew...all this in the good ole U.S.of A. And for those who say love it or leave it, my reply is that i am trying hard to take off my boots and get the hell outta dodge!
joane now known as jones4