Well I was reading a post in this forum about people who don't believe in god and why they don't believe. But I was wondering what happens when someone dies close to you and don't believe in the whole God's heaven and devil's hell thing. I mean do you just believe that they disapear, or in the moment you don't have a little faith on God that this person is better in heaven or something. Or like in difficult times you don't pray or something or put your faith in something I was wondering about your opinioms... Can you be a Atheist and still haave faith.

Me, personally... I hope theres something more, but I dont think there is. I suppose someone could still be an atheist and believe in an afterlife that has nothing to do with god though...

well I guess that makes sense.

I am a hopeful agnostic. I have always had a problem with the concept of the chirstian hell. How anything you do in a short life time or for the fact you don't believe, can sentence you to an eterninty of suffering. Thats a very angry god.

well, When people die in my family, I dont have faith that they are going anywhere spirtual . The only place they are going is in the ground or turned into ashes.

I can accept this too, religion just gives comfort to people dying or people they know dying. Which is great I guess. I mean there is nothing wrong with it, atleast it helps them.

But its wishful thinking in my opinion.

I dont need a ' GOD ' To get on in life. I dont need a god to to have purpose on earth. If you think life isnt worth living without a god then... thats a problem you have, not me.

Praying? Well it does nothing. No matter how much you pray. to prove this, Lets all abandon all science and medicin and ask god to heal everyone.

I think you know the outcome.

I believe Im more ' FREE ' by not having a religion than people that do. God says you must believe in him or you go to hell. that isnt freedom. So if there is a GOD. he is a horrible one.

I worship no1 !

I figure that they will be the same place they were two thousand years ago! After all they didn't exist before conception (as far as can be proven), so why should they exist after death?

You're assuming religion = christianity.

I'm not confessing to christianity, or any of the other religions, but I still believe in some kind of afterlife. A God is no requirement for the existance of an afterlife.

Long story short - I don't believe in heaven or hell (at least not in the christian sense), but I do believe in an afterlife. So there's no need for me to think people just disappear.

yeah.

Everyone think about this question.

Did you care that you didnt exist for the 4.5 billion years Earth have been around. Or did you care that you didnt exist for 20 billion years when the universe formed?

Were you bored all that time?

I've lost many, many people and I'm a born Atheist.

As I've said before...when a human dies, they die. Just like a potplant. No heaven, no afterlife, nothingness.

I'm not bitter, this what I've assumed and believed since I was a little boy. It's easy to accept actually and I live a full and happy life as do the Atheists around me.

But how do you know you didn't exist? Are you sure memory would travel from one state of being to another? We are offered a clue in the book of Jeremiah.

Before I formed thee in the bellyI knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jeremiah 1:5

According to God we do exist pryor to conception. He just doesn't say how or where. Or maybe He does, and I lack the divine guidance to have as yet found it.

I hate to sound like an advertisement, but if you're interested in researching what different religions/philosophies say about the afterlife I suggest religioustolerance.org.

What about reincarnation?

Your not liking it won't make the reality of hell go away.

What on Earth makes you think you didn't exist then??? Souls are in the 7th Heaven before they are born to this Earth.

typical christian american kid...it looks like heaven and hell are the only options...if someone does die and they don't believe in heaven or hell???? i don't know ask a Buddist that...see what they say...get back to me on that

well, thier body is put underground so yes, they dissapear(out of sight)...unless we go dig them back up...

I don't think that people who don't believe in God go straight to hell. I think if you live your life right and do your best to be a good person then you are not condemed, no matter your beliefs.

Then billions of people are screwed.

A question to all Theists - (please answer this because it annoys me and every other Atheist and general non-believer on the planet)

Why do you, seemingly intentionally, insult us by assuming that because we have no (and have never had) any belief in a higher power that we are unhappy?

Do you have any idea of how arrogant that sounds?

PS. sorry for the rant...I just got through with a verbal slinging match with a priest and I'm all tensed up.

And where did you find that gem, in Enoch? Ma'am, Enoch is (as has been pointed out by even the most feverent Christian on the board) not an inspired work, if it had been, your god would surely have had it included in the bible! Please don't blame poor St. Augustine, a mere man cannot thwart the will of god! If you can't back up your above contention, as least give some idea of why you think that. No where in the bible does it say for certain that anyone existed before conception.

Not at all true. Even for those who don't believe.

There have been several documented stories on healing. There was one study done where a group of people were given a specific medication, and the common one, to treat an illness (I don't remember the illness offhand), and a 2nd group of people with the same illness were given nothing.

An outside group of people were asked to pray regularly for the people who were taking no medicine....but NOT to pray for those that were.

The people who weren't taking the medicine healed 10 times faster than the other group.

So whether you prefer to call it prayer, meditation, psychic power...to say that prayer doesn't work is not at all true.

Medic, the Prayer study was in the news last month. It was a complete hoax. Out of the three people that were supposed to head it, one doesn't exist, another didn't even know about the study until after it ws published, and the third has a history of faulty studies and research based solely for the purpose of advancing his cause rather than actual discovery.

Not even taking into account the complete destruction of its credibility, the test itself wasn't even set up correctly. The alleged double-blinds mentioned in the synopsis do not appear anywhere in the actual body of the work. Nor is there a complete dissemination of data, which means that the positive result were given, but not the negative results, which makes it impossible to discover is there is a statistically significant result.

Ashley, once again you're preaching about something that doesn't exist. Several times in the bible it mentions three heavens, but nowhere does it mention seven

People everywhere I go think God is a angry, vengeful God because of the idea of hell. Hell isn't a torture chamber for those who don't follow Him. Since your birth you have been given a choice either to follow God or to not follow God. If you choose to not follow God and he takes you to heaven, that goes against your will because God is in heaven and you chose not to be with Him. That's what hell is. It's an alternate to heaven, but it's complete and utter separation from God. I personally have a theory that hell is actually earth. Satan roams earth, his demons roam earth and millions of people around the globe have ghost sightings. They are in essence souls in hell, separated by God BY THEIR OWN CHOICE! If you choose to follow God then you get into heaven.

Witch-hunter-God knew we would be born prior to us actually being born. We didn't exist until we were conceived. Reincarnation is the biggest piece of crap I've ever heard. Where did the souls originally come from in the first place! When did everything start? Back when there were only thousands of people alive? Now there are billions of people recycling the same thousand souls? Come on!

Well, your hello on earth theory actually meets the same problem as your idea of reincarnation. Sooner or later, hell (ie earth) would be full, and there would be ghosts all over the place. Something which I personally haven't seen yet.

And the argument about reincarnation - where would the souls come from? Well, if christianity is correct, where would the souls come from?
I guess if reincarnation is correct, souls can be created as well, something which happens all the time in a christian universe. Some go back here after death, some go somewhere else. I really don't see a problem here.

Well there are many intestersting answers. I myself believe in God but I don't pray or go tu church. But when I'm about to do something very important I do my own little prayer and do whatever I do, but I know that it depends on me and I have to do it alone. In the whole heaven and hell thing I truly believe that there is a punishment for the bad and a reward for the good. I mean you can go on life killing people, you know doing bad stuff and dying and not paying for it.

i have something to say...tsk...tsk ...tsk...ONCE AGAIN WE SEE THIS...HEAVEN AND HELL ARE THE ONLY OPTIONS...IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE DO OR FOLLOW...you know manfred, i have debated with my friends in the past too(friendly debate).

i'm not revved up though but tired of hearing YOU CAN BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT BUT I AM RIGHT AND YOU HAVE NO OPTION BUT TO BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE IN.

I agree with RaginCajun on this one. Not specifically about Manfred, but anyone who says "here's how it is, no options available". Everyone has the right to choose what to believe in, without having people interfering or complaining about it.

I agree with that. You are given a choice so it's up to you.

*waves a reincarnation banner*

Atheism is absurd. The second we found out the the Universe is finite any arguments against design fell to the wind. In a finite Universe the probability of life by chance is zero.

Funny, that's exactly what many athiests think about religion...certainly, it's what I think about religion



Finite does not mean small. Even if the universe is, indeed, finite, then we're still dealing with billions upon billions of planets, and a timespan of billions upon billions of years. The universe is such a vast mixing pot that, quite frankly, the odds are not only quite good that it had to happen somewhere, but I believe it's happened many places.

Hey Shadowsleet, long time no see.

Wings of Selkhet, love that quote about talking to oneself in your signature. Really funny



Feel like elaborating on this? Why would a finite universe prohibit life by chance? Isn't the whole point of chance that anything can happen?

I believe that the chance of a random and massive explosion leading to complete order is zero. The odds of this happening is throwing a granade in your bedroom closet and after it explodes, opening the closet door and seeing all your clothes perfectly stacked and folded, no disorder or disarray.

Id rather not get down on my knees and beg to something, who may or may not exist, so that all my issues may be taken away and so I can have my hearts desire without earning it at all.

But thats just me.

Edit: Could it be possible that the primitive minds of humans created souls during the stage when humans took a giant leap in evolution. Just a thought I had.

Does she ever do anything else?

Anyway this is what I firmly believe closely represents what happens when we die http://www.victorzammit.com/book/chapter27.html and while I have no proof at all, my Grandmother (very spiritual) and my Aunt and Uncle (spiritual healers, and very genuine people, told me some crazy stories about what they do, and they have no reason to lie) told me pretty much the same thing long before I ever read that website, very very similar to what is written on that page.

Id post pictures of what will happen to me when I die, but they will be very disgusting and offend many people.

I wasn't aware that you were an expert in mathematics, saucy.

I still say everyone should study string theory. It explains how "nothing" exploded into "something." Besides, who said that's how it happened? I personally believe that the universe has always existed in one form or another, and that it was never nothing. I find that more plausible than believing that a Deity created the universe. Where did that Deity come from? You say he always existed, and that nothing created him. Well why can't we say that about the universe?

If you don't believe that the universe had a beginning point, then you're far behind the current science.

Hey, you dont seem to be bothered by science so why should anyone else?