I have many many reasons not to believe in God. They are my personal experiences that lead me to believe that IF there was a God, why didn't he help me?
First thing, When I was born in 1980, My mom told my father that she was pregnate, he didn't want to have anything to do with us. My mom was 18. So I was raised without my father. During those years it was hard. Actually, Hard isn't even remotely close to what I had to endure during my childhood. My mom did as much as she could to provide for my brother and I. We were on welfare, jumped from house to house, we lived in a car for a week when I was 3. We survived, not on faith of God, but from friends and the goverment. Our meals consited of tv dinners, salsbury steak broiled in a bag, goverment cheese, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, Tang and powdered milk. Eventually, my mom went back to school to finish up and get a great career to care for her 2 children and not have to have the goverment help her raise us.
Second, My mom had boyfriends trying to find a suitable father figure for my brother and I, there were some bad seeds. And One Really bad seed, in which when I was 7 he raped me repeatedly and all I could do was pray to God to have him stop. He didn't hear my prayers cause the sexual abuse and the physical abuse didn't stop for months until he beat my mom horribly. He took her outside and bashed her head against the concrete. He didn't beat us nearly as bad, but seeing my mom getting hurt, hurt us as bad as the beatings. Needlesstosay, God didn't come to 'save us', my uncle did and had the s.o.b. put in jail. That was the night that I finally said something about the rapings. It is very hard for a 7 year old girl to come into a court room and see the man who ripped your already pathedic life apart, and get some justice. He was sententced to 15-40 years.
Third, I lived in fear for many years. When I was in 6th grade I tried numerous times to kill myself. I wanted out of this hell of a life. Why would a God put one family through so much pain and agony? Doesn't he have any compassion for a child? I drew a picture of me holding a gun to my head, tears streaming down my face, and I drew pictures of some of my classmates who were terribly mean to me telling me that I was worthless, ugly, and to pull the trigger. This picture put me into an institution for children with 'problems' for 2 weeks. I didn't find God in there, I found 'Life' and friends.
I felt as if the Good Book, missed alot of pages. There probably was a guy named Jesus. I feel if Christians are so 'for' God, why don't they smoke marijuana. If God created everything on this earth that is natural. I am sure he didn't put marijuana on this planet for us to look at. And for all those people to believe they saw a man walk across the water, MUST have been smoking something. Hmm.
I still can't believe in something that brings so much pain. I didn't eat the damn apple so why did I have to suffer?
He took my grandma away from us in a freek accident this year. 5 days before her FAVORITE holiday, Christmas. I am so mad at him if he exists. I didn't deserve to have a life like this. My grandma didn't deserve to die like that. SHe was only 72! I am a good person with a good heart, My grandma was a great person and a great heart! I did believe in this God when I was young, but he never helped me, I had to help myself with the help of my family. He torchured me, he brought hell into my life. No child derseves this abuse. I was an innocent child. All children are innocent and He hasn't helped any of us.
I do believe in somethings though, Myself and the Power of Family and Friends.
Full Version: Why It Is Hard For Me To Believe In GOD.
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27
Free.. I know you may not realize this, but your experiences have made you a much stronger person... You have learned to rely on yourself for change, and you realized something that many people don't ever realize:
The power of self. You alone helped you get through all of this. Way to go
I would recommend being a motivational speaker to child rape victims...
The power of self. You alone helped you get through all of this. Way to go
I would recommend being a motivational speaker to child rape victims...
Freespyryt24, life can be sucking, it would especially be felt so and unfair if you think you are a good person. To make thing worse, there are evil people in this world too, and you must know that they are fully responsible for their actions. It is sad that you wasn't well protected and didn't know how to fight back being a young child. Believing in a God or not, you must take on a view that this is a world of free will, which some will totally abuse the freedom to take advantage of others. It must be extremely difficult to come to terms with the possiblity that there is a God who didn't interfere in those terrible happenings. Unfortunately this is still a world of free will for fact (and for believers this is a world of free will for a reason), and people, not God, can be as evil as they try. I hope you would be healed of your wounds and find your peace, and start out from a brand new page of your life. I am sure everybody here would wish you the best too, just remember that there are many nice people in this world too and everyday is new and the future is more important than your past, if you are strong.
Hi, I'd just like to say that GOD sends trials upon many people to see who is best in conduct and which of his servants believes in him. Always remember that GOD never puts any soul through trouble and hardships that would be a burden too great to bear. He probably wants to test you like he does many people, there are some he gives a life of prosperity and success YET they do not remember GOD with gratitude and appreciate his mercy, and then there are people like you he gives a life of sorrow and hardships to see if you believe in GOD and remember him during such times and how you cope with the situation. It may seem all a bit confusing and I am not saying you have to believe in any religion or GOD, that is totally upto you BUT have a look at the following scenario:
Consider this : An archaeologist digs deep into the desert sand and finds a piece of an old clay pot. After his investigations, this archaeologist can tell us, from this little old piece of dusty clay, so much about the civilisation that existed thousands of years ago that produced it; he can tell us about the types of ovens, temperatues, and dyes that they worked with, the raw materials that they used, and thus assess the level of their artistic skill and technological ability, etc. All this from a small piece of clay lying in the desert.
Did this archaeologist ever see the civilisation that produced this pot ?
How does he know that it ever existed ?
He knows because he saw that the piece of clay was produced by someone who designed it, and shaped it, and had the intelligence to be able to heat it and produce the pot, and not only that, they also had the ability to colour it and make it look beautiful.
Design ==> Designer.
To the archaeologist the existence and intricacy of the piece of pottery is conclusive proof of the existence, intelligence and ability of the people who made it.
Look around you: at the beautiful sunset on a summer evening, at the moon and the stars on a cloudless night, at the water that you drink, at the trees and how they grow from tiny seeds.
Think about yourself: your eyes with which you see, your ears with which you hear, your tongues with which you taste and talk, your hands and your feet, your heart and your brain.
Consider how these things are so complex in themselves and yet work together in such perfect harmony.
From the movement of the galaxies to the complexities of the interaction of molecules, from the dynamics of eco-systems to the intricacies of DNA, all lead to the obvious fact of the existence of the great Wisdom, Knowledge and Power that allows our Universe to exist and function.
To any perceptive person the existence and intricacy of creation is conclusive proof of the Existence, Knowledge and Wisdom of the One who creates, organises and sustains it.
Most people naturally recognise the existence of the Creator, and we find reference to the Creator in all cultures and religions. Even the atheists, communists and (disbelieving) scientists cannot avoid this reality, but avoid the term 'creator', for phrases like 'Mother Nature' and 'the amazing way nature has designed...'
How strange in the face of this, that many today reject the belief in the existence of the Creator. Perhaps this is due more to fashion and the desire to justify a materialistic attitude to life rather than real observation and comprehension of reality.
Something stranger still, and perhaps another reason for the trend to deny the Creator, are those who claim that a man, or men, who walked on the earth, breathed air, who had bodies and souls subject to the Laws of the Universe, are the Creator, or manifestations of the Self-Subsistent One.
This is of course a complete contradiction in terms. Something cannot be the Creator and created at the same time, needing air, food and drink and being self-sufficient, being temporary and eternal!
If you are one of those who believe that a man such as Buddha, or Krishna, or Jesus is the Creator and Controller, then think again.
We were created from a drop of despised fluid, in which was a microscopic sperm, which in turn fertilised a microscopic egg and we grew in our mother's womb in stages predetermined, over which we had no control. We came from our mother's womb, urinating and defecating, needing constant attention and care. Without food we will die, without air we will die ... and then such a one is God?
Indeed any intelligent person would recognise exactly how dependant life, the universe and everything is on its Creator. Our dire need for His help makes itself plain in times of great distress.
Imagine yourself in an aeroplane and you know it is going to crash...
Who do you turn to for help then ?
Or on a ship in the sea, thrown helplessly up and down by towering waves ...
There will have been a situation at one time or the other in your life when you called upon your Creator alone, forgetting everyone and everything else, hoping, trusting, wishing that the Being you know in your heart and soul that has power and control over all things would help you. The only One you know can save you!
O creature of God, contemplate upon these verses:
Behold! In the creation of the Heavens and the Earth; In the alternation of the night and day; In the sailing of the ships through the Oceans for the profit of mankind; In the rain which God sends down from the skies, and the life that He therewith to an earth that is dead; In the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the Earth; In the change of the winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth -Indeed these are signs for a people that are wise." [The Qur'aan 2:164]
"It is He who has made the sun a shining glory and the moon a light of beauty and has measured out their stages, that you might know the number of years and their reckoning.Allah did not create this but in Truth. He explains His signs in detail for people who understand." [The Qur'aan 10:5]
"He has created the heavens and the earth with Truth. Far is He above having the partners that they ascribe to him. He has created mankind from a sperm drop; and behold this (same) man becomes anopen disputer! And the cattle, He has created them for you; in them is warmth (warm clothing) and numerous benefits, and of them you eat." [The Qur'aan 16:3-5]
"Blessed be He who sent down the Criterion to His servant that it may be an admonition to all creatures. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth; no son has he begotten, nor has He any partner in His dominion; It is He who created all things and gave them their due proportions.Yet they have taken besides Him gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor do they control life nor death nor Resurrection." [The Qur'aan 25:1-3]
"Were they created by nothing or did they create themselves? Or did they create the heavens and the earth ? No, they have no firm belief." [The Qur'aan 52:36]
"He it is who enables you to travel through land and sea, until, when you are in the ships and they sail with a favourable wind and you are glad about that. Then comes a stormy wind and the waves come to you from all sides and when you think that you are encircled by them, you call upon God making your faith pure for Him alone saying :'If You deliver us from this we shall truly be grateful.' But when He delivers you, behold! you rebel in the earth wrongfully. O mankind, your rebellion against God is only against your own selves - a brief enjoyment of this wordly life, then in the end unto Us is your return We shall inform you of that which you used to do." [The Qur'aan 10:22-23]
Consider this : An archaeologist digs deep into the desert sand and finds a piece of an old clay pot. After his investigations, this archaeologist can tell us, from this little old piece of dusty clay, so much about the civilisation that existed thousands of years ago that produced it; he can tell us about the types of ovens, temperatues, and dyes that they worked with, the raw materials that they used, and thus assess the level of their artistic skill and technological ability, etc. All this from a small piece of clay lying in the desert.
Did this archaeologist ever see the civilisation that produced this pot ?
How does he know that it ever existed ?
He knows because he saw that the piece of clay was produced by someone who designed it, and shaped it, and had the intelligence to be able to heat it and produce the pot, and not only that, they also had the ability to colour it and make it look beautiful.
Design ==> Designer.
To the archaeologist the existence and intricacy of the piece of pottery is conclusive proof of the existence, intelligence and ability of the people who made it.
Look around you: at the beautiful sunset on a summer evening, at the moon and the stars on a cloudless night, at the water that you drink, at the trees and how they grow from tiny seeds.
Think about yourself: your eyes with which you see, your ears with which you hear, your tongues with which you taste and talk, your hands and your feet, your heart and your brain.
Consider how these things are so complex in themselves and yet work together in such perfect harmony.
From the movement of the galaxies to the complexities of the interaction of molecules, from the dynamics of eco-systems to the intricacies of DNA, all lead to the obvious fact of the existence of the great Wisdom, Knowledge and Power that allows our Universe to exist and function.
To any perceptive person the existence and intricacy of creation is conclusive proof of the Existence, Knowledge and Wisdom of the One who creates, organises and sustains it.
Most people naturally recognise the existence of the Creator, and we find reference to the Creator in all cultures and religions. Even the atheists, communists and (disbelieving) scientists cannot avoid this reality, but avoid the term 'creator', for phrases like 'Mother Nature' and 'the amazing way nature has designed...'
How strange in the face of this, that many today reject the belief in the existence of the Creator. Perhaps this is due more to fashion and the desire to justify a materialistic attitude to life rather than real observation and comprehension of reality.
Something stranger still, and perhaps another reason for the trend to deny the Creator, are those who claim that a man, or men, who walked on the earth, breathed air, who had bodies and souls subject to the Laws of the Universe, are the Creator, or manifestations of the Self-Subsistent One.
This is of course a complete contradiction in terms. Something cannot be the Creator and created at the same time, needing air, food and drink and being self-sufficient, being temporary and eternal!
If you are one of those who believe that a man such as Buddha, or Krishna, or Jesus is the Creator and Controller, then think again.
We were created from a drop of despised fluid, in which was a microscopic sperm, which in turn fertilised a microscopic egg and we grew in our mother's womb in stages predetermined, over which we had no control. We came from our mother's womb, urinating and defecating, needing constant attention and care. Without food we will die, without air we will die ... and then such a one is God?
Indeed any intelligent person would recognise exactly how dependant life, the universe and everything is on its Creator. Our dire need for His help makes itself plain in times of great distress.
Imagine yourself in an aeroplane and you know it is going to crash...
Who do you turn to for help then ?
Or on a ship in the sea, thrown helplessly up and down by towering waves ...
There will have been a situation at one time or the other in your life when you called upon your Creator alone, forgetting everyone and everything else, hoping, trusting, wishing that the Being you know in your heart and soul that has power and control over all things would help you. The only One you know can save you!
O creature of God, contemplate upon these verses:
Behold! In the creation of the Heavens and the Earth; In the alternation of the night and day; In the sailing of the ships through the Oceans for the profit of mankind; In the rain which God sends down from the skies, and the life that He therewith to an earth that is dead; In the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the Earth; In the change of the winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth -Indeed these are signs for a people that are wise." [The Qur'aan 2:164]
"It is He who has made the sun a shining glory and the moon a light of beauty and has measured out their stages, that you might know the number of years and their reckoning.Allah did not create this but in Truth. He explains His signs in detail for people who understand." [The Qur'aan 10:5]
"He has created the heavens and the earth with Truth. Far is He above having the partners that they ascribe to him. He has created mankind from a sperm drop; and behold this (same) man becomes anopen disputer! And the cattle, He has created them for you; in them is warmth (warm clothing) and numerous benefits, and of them you eat." [The Qur'aan 16:3-5]
"Blessed be He who sent down the Criterion to His servant that it may be an admonition to all creatures. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth; no son has he begotten, nor has He any partner in His dominion; It is He who created all things and gave them their due proportions.Yet they have taken besides Him gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor do they control life nor death nor Resurrection." [The Qur'aan 25:1-3]
"Were they created by nothing or did they create themselves? Or did they create the heavens and the earth ? No, they have no firm belief." [The Qur'aan 52:36]
"He it is who enables you to travel through land and sea, until, when you are in the ships and they sail with a favourable wind and you are glad about that. Then comes a stormy wind and the waves come to you from all sides and when you think that you are encircled by them, you call upon God making your faith pure for Him alone saying :'If You deliver us from this we shall truly be grateful.' But when He delivers you, behold! you rebel in the earth wrongfully. O mankind, your rebellion against God is only against your own selves - a brief enjoyment of this wordly life, then in the end unto Us is your return We shall inform you of that which you used to do." [The Qur'aan 10:22-23]
lets not get off-topic hear LuQy
is he also the one who lets the sun go supernova and end all existence of this galaxy as we know it?
It took him more then 8 human species to create us. i thought he was perfect?
QUOTE
It is He who has made the sun a shining glory and the moon a light of beauty and has measured out their stages
is he also the one who lets the sun go supernova and end all existence of this galaxy as we know it?
QUOTE
From the movement of the galaxies to the complexities of the interaction of molecules, from the dynamics of eco-systems to the intricacies of DNA, all lead to the obvious fact of the existence of the great Wisdom, Knowledge and Power that allows our Universe to exist and function.
It took him more then 8 human species to create us. i thought he was perfect?
Someone being off topic? On UM? Get out of here!!??
Thanks LuQy for the insight. But it doesn't do much help. My grandma wanted me to find 'the way of the Lord' but my past has given me more reasons than one to doubt. Plus my aspects and knowledge of Science and evalution. It doesn't have ONE word in the bible about the dinosaurs, and we can Prove that they did exist. I feel as if someone just made up the bible as a story way back when. How would they know what we know now? And why wouldn't God say anything about these creatures?
You also say that God would never put anyones soul through troubles and hardship that is a burden too great to bear. I couldn't bear the burdens that I have endured, so I tried numerous times to end my suffering. I was suffering. I was beaten, I was raped. I was a child! Nice test that was. Regardless if it made me a strong woman as I am today, my wounds may have healed but the scars will always remain.
Thanks for the input. It sure does help with others input and thoughts.
You also say that God would never put anyones soul through troubles and hardship that is a burden too great to bear. I couldn't bear the burdens that I have endured, so I tried numerous times to end my suffering. I was suffering. I was beaten, I was raped. I was a child! Nice test that was. Regardless if it made me a strong woman as I am today, my wounds may have healed but the scars will always remain.
Thanks for the input. It sure does help with others input and thoughts.
QUOTE(Hotoke @ Jan 7 2005, 09:40 PM)
It took him more then 8 human species to create us. i thought he was perfect?
I've said this already and backed it up with quotes from the Quran in other posts that all species have gone through the natural evolutionary process EXCEPT humans... All other life-forms are said to have started from the sea and in the post on this thread one of the verses clearly states GOD has/had put many beasts (thus Dinosaurs, Bears any animal etc..) on this Earth.
To me, half of these 'hominids' are clearly human and the others are clearly ape.
Homo Erectus= human
Homo Neanderthalis = human
Homo Habilis= ape
After studying the inner ear structure of these hominids, some of them were proven to not be able to walk upright at all.
Also, the differences that evoloutinists try to pull out between skeletal remains of 'hominids' are no greater than differences we find between different races.
You can try to convince me about evoloution of mankind. I doubt it will happen.
Now regarding the galaxy.... The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of ‘smoke’ (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition).1* This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology.* Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that ‘smoke’.... A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the ‘smoke’ that was the origin of the whole universe.... The Lagoon nebula is a cloud of gas and dust, about 60 light years in diameter.* It is excited by the ultraviolet radiation of the hot stars that have recently formed within its bulk.... The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that ‘smoke’ material.* God has said in the Quran:
"Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke..." (Quran, 41:11)
Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity.* Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran: "Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..." (Quran, 21:30)
Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists.* He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany.He said: "Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case".... “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin.”
THE STRUCTURAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SUN, THE MOON AND THE STARS
We built seven firm layers above you. We installed a blazing lamp. (Qur'an, 78:12-13)
As we know, the only source of light in the Solar System is the Sun. With advances in technology, astronomers discovered that the Moon was not a source of light but that it merely reflects the light reaching it from the Sun. The expression "lamp" in the above verse is a translation of the Arabic word "sirajan," which most perfectly describes the Sun, the source of light and heat.
In the Qur'an Allah employs different words when referring to such celestial bodies as the Moon, the Sun and the stars. This is how the differences between the structures of the Sun and Moon are expressed in the Qur'an:
Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers, and placed the moon as a light in them and made the sun a blazing lamp? (Qur'an, 71:15-16)
In the above verse, the word "light" is used for the Moon ("nooran" in Arabic) and the word "lamp" for the Sun ("sirajan" in Arabic.) The word used for the Moon refers to a light-reflecting, bright, motionless body. The word used for the Sun refers to a celestial body which is always burning, a constant source of heat and light.
On the other hand, the word "star" comes from the Arabic root "nejeme," meaning "appearing, emerging, visible." As in the verse below, stars are also referred to by the word "thaqib," which is used for that which shines and pierces the darkness with light: self-consuming and burning:
It is the star that pierces through darkness! (Qur'an, 86:3)
We now know that the Moon does not emit its own light but reflects that reaching it from the Sun. We also know that the Sun and stars do emit their own light. These facts were revealed in the Qur'an in an age when mankind simply did not have the means to make scientific discoveries of their own accord. It was an age when peoples' knowledge of celestial bodies was severely restricted, to say the least. This further emphasises the miraculous nature of the book of Islam.
I could carry on BUT really I have to get a move on.........
you have become a more powerful person in spirit because of what happened. you are the only one who can save yourself. it will always be like that. everything is achieved by the human mind
for some reason hotoke your response makes more sence than LuQy. I jsut don't understand when people go into the 'book of god' and try to preach out of it. I can't grasp concepts that seem to be not real.
Hey I'm not trying to preach out of a book, I'm merely suggesting to you that GOD does exist and trying to prove this by quoting from the Quran. On the whole Hotoke is correct about the human mind and the simple fact that without mental strength and willpower we would get nowhere. I don't understand when humans say they cannot comprehend certain concepts in religion, of course you can't, it's because you're not GOD..!!! If we knew everything about our existence then freedom (free will) would not exist and life would not be a test for us. Fundementally mankind is allowed to choose what they do or believe in, this is the greatest asset god has provided us with, we are also not without flaws, therefore we have the ability to understand when mistakes are made and differentiate between good and evil actions, so that we may appreciate the mercy of our Lord when we do wrong. Going through hardships and sadness in this life usually draws people closer to GOD and seek mercy from him; I'm sure that which awaits for those after death will be much greater happiness in return for the pain they've faced in this life, BUT only if we appreciate and believe in GOD. In adversity you should pray, and know heaven awaits you at the end of the day..!! If we forget God then God will also forget us and this is when materialistic things become more important than your faith, this is what seems to have happened with you. Never lose faith in God even if your whole lifetime seems like hell because our life on Earth is only temporary and a much greater prize awaits us for eternity once it has come to an end..!!!
free, you've gone through everything you've gone through for a reason. It may not seem that way right now, but when you're old, you'll look back and see how much stronger those expiriences made you.
abou the marijuana thing... there are things on this earth that kill you... such as poison. Poison is all natural, yet we don't just go around drinking it. Marijuana damages your body... and your body is a gift from God. If you gave someone a brand new car, and they went out and totaled it just to have some fun, wouldn't you be a little steamed?
God loves you, and He wants you to come back to Him. Just like how he wanted your grandmother to come back to Him. We're on this earth in a constant test. Your grandma finished that test, and she passed on.
I hope that you find the will to search for God again, and He will make Himself known to you.
God bless.
abou the marijuana thing... there are things on this earth that kill you... such as poison. Poison is all natural, yet we don't just go around drinking it. Marijuana damages your body... and your body is a gift from God. If you gave someone a brand new car, and they went out and totaled it just to have some fun, wouldn't you be a little steamed?
God loves you, and He wants you to come back to Him. Just like how he wanted your grandmother to come back to Him. We're on this earth in a constant test. Your grandma finished that test, and she passed on.
I hope that you find the will to search for God again, and He will make Himself known to you.
God bless.
QUOTE
Hey I'm not trying to preach out of a book, I'm merely suggesting to you that GOD does exist and trying to prove this by quoting from the Quran.
You must see the falicy in doing this... you are trying to prove the existance of god through a book that is clearly biased. Perhaps you have evidence of miracles?? Something of the sort?? This is the kind of evidence that stands... not quotes from a religious book.
But back on Topic... quoting from a book isn't going to help free feel anybetter... how bout your own words??
Free, I'll say it again... you are a much stronger person because of your experiences. It may be a rough past to deal with, but it made you who you are, and you'll be that much more prepared to deal with crisis in the future. You already know how to cope and adjust, and that is a real asset.
Miracles you say? "If anyone believes in miracles, it would probably be the people who see the entire range of human life from birth to death regularly - doctors."
I've been through my share of pain, suffering and torment and have considered suicide myself yet have always questioned the thought. I've also asked why God did not help me when I needed him the most and have also doubted him. But maybe this was a lesson to be learned and way to help those in need.
If you believe that death is just the beginning then your Grandmother isn't "Dead". There are many stories in this forum where their family members have come back in times of need and for some sort of closure. There's more to life than meets the eye.
I might sound vague, but hell I'm not sure about life myself. I'm learning like the rest of us oridinary people. Just stay strong and help each other as well as yourself.
I've been through my share of pain, suffering and torment and have considered suicide myself yet have always questioned the thought. I've also asked why God did not help me when I needed him the most and have also doubted him. But maybe this was a lesson to be learned and way to help those in need.
If you believe that death is just the beginning then your Grandmother isn't "Dead". There are many stories in this forum where their family members have come back in times of need and for some sort of closure. There's more to life than meets the eye.
I might sound vague, but hell I'm not sure about life myself. I'm learning like the rest of us oridinary people. Just stay strong and help each other as well as yourself.
QUOTE
After studying the inner ear structure of these hominids, some of them were proven to not be able to walk upright at all.
not saying your lying, but proof please, i have never heard of this
QUOTE
Also, the differences that evoloutinists try to pull out between skeletal remains of 'hominids' are no greater than differences we find between different races.
not sure what you meant by this statement
QUOTE
You can try to convince me about evoloution of mankind. I doubt it will happen.
thats because your mind is made up, close mindedness will not further anyone in any field
QUOTE
Now regarding the galaxy.... The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of ‘smoke’ (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition).1* This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology.* Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that ‘smoke’.... A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the ‘smoke’ that was the origin of the whole universe.... The Lagoon nebula is a cloud of gas and dust, about 60 light years in diameter.* It is excited by the ultraviolet radiation of the hot stars that have recently formed within its bulk.... The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that ‘smoke’ material.* God has said in the Quran:
"Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke..." (Quran, 41:11)
Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity.* Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran: "Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..." (Quran, 21:30)
Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists.* He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany.He said: "Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case".... “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin.”
"Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke..." (Quran, 41:11)
Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity.* Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran: "Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..." (Quran, 21:30)
Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists.* He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany.He said: "Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case".... “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin.”
same can be said with the egyptions and there knowledge of space, lining the great pyramids up with orions belt ect, a lot of ancient civilizations had what appeared to be knowledge of the universe, however stars are made out of gases (smoke) its thought that the universe did not begin as a cloud of opaque gases, isnt it though that everything was at a singularity?
QUOTE
THE STRUCTURAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SUN, THE MOON AND THE STARS
We built seven firm layers above you. We installed a blazing lamp. (Qur'an, 78:12-13)
As we know, the only source of light in the Solar System is the Sun. With advances in technology, astronomers discovered that the Moon was not a source of light but that it merely reflects the light reaching it from the Sun. The expression "lamp" in the above verse is a translation of the Arabic word "sirajan," which most perfectly describes the Sun, the source of light and heat.
We built seven firm layers above you. We installed a blazing lamp. (Qur'an, 78:12-13)
As we know, the only source of light in the Solar System is the Sun. With advances in technology, astronomers discovered that the Moon was not a source of light but that it merely reflects the light reaching it from the Sun. The expression "lamp" in the above verse is a translation of the Arabic word "sirajan," which most perfectly describes the Sun, the source of light and heat.
you dont need a god to know that
QUOTE
In the Qur'an Allah employs different words when referring to such celestial bodies as the Moon, the Sun and the stars. This is how the differences between the structures of the Sun and Moon are expressed in the Qur'an:
Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers, and placed the moon as a light in them and made the sun a blazing lamp? (Qur'an, 71:15-16)
In the above verse, the word "light" is used for the Moon ("nooran" in Arabic) and the word "lamp" for the Sun ("sirajan" in Arabic.) The word used for the Moon refers to a light-reflecting, bright, motionless body. The word used for the Sun refers to a celestial body which is always burning, a constant source of heat and light.
On the other hand, the word "star" comes from the Arabic root "nejeme," meaning "appearing, emerging, visible." As in the verse below, stars are also referred to by the word "thaqib," which is used for that which shines and pierces the darkness with light: self-consuming and burning:
It is the star that pierces through darkness! (Qur'an, 86:3)
We now know that the Moon does not emit its own light but reflects that reaching it from the Sun. We also know that the Sun and stars do emit their own light. These facts were revealed in the Qur'an in an age when mankind simply did not have the means to make scientific discoveries of their own accord. It was an age when peoples' knowledge of celestial bodies was severely restricted, to say the least. This further emphasises the miraculous nature of the book of Islam.
Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers, and placed the moon as a light in them and made the sun a blazing lamp? (Qur'an, 71:15-16)
In the above verse, the word "light" is used for the Moon ("nooran" in Arabic) and the word "lamp" for the Sun ("sirajan" in Arabic.) The word used for the Moon refers to a light-reflecting, bright, motionless body. The word used for the Sun refers to a celestial body which is always burning, a constant source of heat and light.
On the other hand, the word "star" comes from the Arabic root "nejeme," meaning "appearing, emerging, visible." As in the verse below, stars are also referred to by the word "thaqib," which is used for that which shines and pierces the darkness with light: self-consuming and burning:
It is the star that pierces through darkness! (Qur'an, 86:3)
We now know that the Moon does not emit its own light but reflects that reaching it from the Sun. We also know that the Sun and stars do emit their own light. These facts were revealed in the Qur'an in an age when mankind simply did not have the means to make scientific discoveries of their own accord. It was an age when peoples' knowledge of celestial bodies was severely restricted, to say the least. This further emphasises the miraculous nature of the book of Islam.
looking up at the night sky, it appears that everything is emiting its own light, including the sun, the moon, and the stars however if the moon gave off its own light how can there be a half moon or quarter moon, it does not take a genious to figure out that the moon does not emit its own light, it doesnt take a god to tell you that either
Freespyryt24.
Let's put God over in the corner for a minute, and talk about you.
Regardless of how God is, or how you have seen Him as you have lived your life. Do you still Love Him? For your post is not "Why I do not believe in God," But why it is hard for you to believe.
The Reason I am asking, Is if you love God, after going through all you have, Will that love ever really go away?
People have many reasons not to like God, Many are legitimate reasons. You have more then enough. But, how does your heart feel about rejecting Him?
If you do love God, Then the only peace you will ever know is to accept Him, Knowing there is no guarantee it will not get w whole lot worst.
Your Grandmother loved Him, was she wrong?
Whatever you choose, You do not effect His way of doing things. All are saved by grace, You do not have to accept Him to be with Grandma. But everyone else will also be in heaven. But the gates of heaven have quite a lot of power. It is called "Attitude adjustment"
(JOB 13:15) Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will
maintain mine own ways before him. (KJV)
Ken
Let's put God over in the corner for a minute, and talk about you.
Regardless of how God is, or how you have seen Him as you have lived your life. Do you still Love Him? For your post is not "Why I do not believe in God," But why it is hard for you to believe.
The Reason I am asking, Is if you love God, after going through all you have, Will that love ever really go away?
People have many reasons not to like God, Many are legitimate reasons. You have more then enough. But, how does your heart feel about rejecting Him?
If you do love God, Then the only peace you will ever know is to accept Him, Knowing there is no guarantee it will not get w whole lot worst.
Your Grandmother loved Him, was she wrong?
Whatever you choose, You do not effect His way of doing things. All are saved by grace, You do not have to accept Him to be with Grandma. But everyone else will also be in heaven. But the gates of heaven have quite a lot of power. It is called "Attitude adjustment"
(JOB 13:15) Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will
maintain mine own ways before him. (KJV)
Ken
i think the title of her post is basically
this is why i find it hard to believe a god exists
as in some people find it hard to believe the boogie man exists
this is why i find it hard to believe a god exists
as in some people find it hard to believe the boogie man exists
QUOTE(seeking @ Jan 7 2005, 05:59 PM)
i think the title of her post is basically
this is why i find it hard to believe a god exists
as in some people find it hard to believe the boogie man exists
[right][snapback]441274[/snapback][/right]
this is why i find it hard to believe a god exists
as in some people find it hard to believe the boogie man exists
[right][snapback]441274[/snapback][/right]
So right....People try so hard to prove that an invisible God exists
and yet don't believe in other things they haven't seen.
Power of Prayer is just positive thinking and believing...having faith is a law
that anyone can practice.
It's man's traditions and they feel 'safe' in it.
i agree, i believein the power of prayer because i understand it is just your mind at work, i made a pretty nice comparisn i thought anyway of santa clause and god, people believe god but not santa, where santa would leave proof of his existance every year
QUOTE(seeking @ Jan 8 2005, 02:07 AM)
looking up at the night sky, it appears that everything is emiting its own light, including the sun, the moon, and the stars however if the moon gave off its own light how can there be a half moon or quarter moon, it does not take a genious to figure out that the moon does not emit its own light, it doesnt take a god to tell you that either
lol
Funny you should say that, I wonder WHY if it was so obvious all these discoveries were made in the recent past. The Quran has also stated that each cellestial body (Sun, Moon and Earth etc..) has its own orbit, I'm sure you with your super-intelligent brainpower would have figured that out yourself BUT why did scientists only discover this not so long ago??? Anyway I don't want to be off topic BUT regarding the evolution theory I do believe in it BUT not in the same manner as most people, have a read of my post on http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...ndpost&p=441747Ps. My mind is made up BUT still willing to learn, share and listen to all opinions
free
i can't begin to imagine the pain you went through.
but your title says 'why can't i believe in god?' if u dont believe in god, then what are your opinions on how the world is how it is? formed etc. i'd like to know.
QUOTE(LuQy @ Jan 8 2005, 12:35 PM)
QUOTE(seeking @ Jan 8 2005, 02:07 AM)
looking up at the night sky, it appears that everything is emiting its own light, including the sun, the moon, and the stars however if the moon gave off its own light how can there be a half moon or quarter moon, it does not take a genious to figure out that the moon does not emit its own light, it doesnt take a god to tell you that either
lol
Funny you should say that, I wonder WHY if it was so obvious all these discoveries were made in the recent past. The Quran has also stated that each cellestial body (Sun, Moon and Earth etc..) has its own orbit, I'm sure you with your super-intelligent brainpower would have figured that out yourself BUT why did scientists only discover this not so long ago??? Anyway I don't want to be off topic BUT regarding the evolution theory I do believe in it BUT not in the same manner as most people, have a read of my post on http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...ndpost&p=441747Ps. My mind is made up BUT still willing to learn, share and listen to all opinions
[right][snapback]441765[/snapback][/right]
people did not come foward with there beliefs of teh universe due to fear of excommunication and/or execution, and about scientists discovering the moon to reflect light and not give off so recent is because we just now have the technology to PROVE it, we can say we believe in the big bang, we can say there is evidence of it, but if we dont have the technology to prove it, it remains a theory no matter how plausable the idea
there are some religious people that will try to de-rail you telling you to basically "hush up". maybe yu didn't pray right (here are some 'qutoes from our "book")... 
i say you are powerful now...you have made it through tough roads and now have come to the last few steps of the door. how??? not by praying or with god like some would argue. it's was by determination, power of the mind to the not give in to the nagatives and bonds of your family.
many people when they graduate or survive horrific lives, thank god as the first words.
thank the bird that pooped on your car window too. well, don't forget to thank your 100% efforts and people that aided you.
i say you are powerful now...you have made it through tough roads and now have come to the last few steps of the door. how??? not by praying or with god like some would argue. it's was by determination, power of the mind to the not give in to the nagatives and bonds of your family.
many people when they graduate or survive horrific lives, thank god as the first words.
thank the bird that pooped on your car window too. well, don't forget to thank your 100% efforts and people that aided you.
well said Ragin, and I second that 
QUOTE(seeking @ Jan 8 2005, 05:04 PM)
people did not come foward with there beliefs of teh universe due to fear of excommunication and/or execution, and about scientists discovering the moon to reflect light and not give off so recent is because we just now have the technology to PROVE it, we can say we believe in the big bang, we can say there is evidence of it, but if we dont have the technology to prove it, it remains a theory no matter how plausable the idea
Theory or no theory, my point here is that it took scientists a hell of a long time to discover it and yet in the Quran it has already been written. There are still many other things written in the Quran that are not understood BUT as time goes by and scientist discover more and more I'm sure it will unearth the grim reality that these are the true words of GOD, because we both know that no Human was intelligent enough to make such things up 1400 years ago.
LuQy, you only believe your book says such things because you're interpreting the text to do so, with the benefit of hindsite. As has been seen time and time again, any holy text is open to interpretation...one person will likely read something very different into any given passage than another.
Do you, for example, belief the Quran instructs all muslims to kill non-muslims, wherever they find them? I'm going to assume no....however, there are people that have interpreted parts of the Quran to tell them to do just that.
Do you, for example, belief the Quran instructs all muslims to kill non-muslims, wherever they find them? I'm going to assume no....however, there are people that have interpreted parts of the Quran to tell them to do just that.
QUOTE
Theory or no theory, my point here is that it took scientists a hell of a long time to discover it and yet in the Quran it has already been written. There are still many other things written in the Quran that are not understood BUT as time goes by and scientist discover more and more I'm sure it will unearth the grim reality that these are the true words of GOD, because we both know that no Human was intelligent enough to make such things up 1400 years ago.
you must not know of the ancient civilisations who lived on earth. most of them had a deep understanding of the universe. like the egyptians mayans sumerians
Free, it's not about God loving you, it's you loving God. Just because life sucks doesn't mean there isn't a God. The reason there is poison, pot, etc is that after Adam and Eve ate the fruit (the Bible doesn't say apple) God had to punish them. The world has become so sinful and evil, myself among them, that we cannot really comprehend what sin really is. We don't understand why God sends people who haven't excepted His son (Jesus) to hell. It's because sin is terrible beyond our human understanding, and the punishment is spiritual and physical death. But God showed mercy, and Adam and Eve just had to put up with a really messed up world with a whole lot of really bad stuff in it (like pot). So the fact that any of us are alive shows God's mercy. The fact that He sent His own Son to die for us shows His unfailing love.
Compared to some people, you had life easy. Look at Job. In a few short days his entire family was dead, he was covered with painful boils, which he scraped and scratched with a piece of pottery. His home was destroyed, and he was left sitting in the ruins when his friends come over and start chewing him out about how bad he is. Why did this happen? God allowed Satan to test him, to see if he would curse and disown God. Despite all his hardships, Job praised God. Soon Job's skin was perfect, he had a much bigger home and family, and he was very rich.
Saying you don't believe in God because of tough times is not a good thing to do. I have disowned God in times of hardship and the outcome....wasn't good. But if you praise God, and believe in Him, and His Son, then remember Job.
You're life has been a whole lot harder than mine, however, and I cannot fully comprehend what life has been like for you. I only pray you pick the right path... "For wide is the gate to destruction, and many pass through. The gate to salvation and life is small, and only a few find it." -the Bible
Compared to some people, you had life easy. Look at Job. In a few short days his entire family was dead, he was covered with painful boils, which he scraped and scratched with a piece of pottery. His home was destroyed, and he was left sitting in the ruins when his friends come over and start chewing him out about how bad he is. Why did this happen? God allowed Satan to test him, to see if he would curse and disown God. Despite all his hardships, Job praised God. Soon Job's skin was perfect, he had a much bigger home and family, and he was very rich.
Saying you don't believe in God because of tough times is not a good thing to do. I have disowned God in times of hardship and the outcome....wasn't good. But if you praise God, and believe in Him, and His Son, then remember Job.
You're life has been a whole lot harder than mine, however, and I cannot fully comprehend what life has been like for you. I only pray you pick the right path... "For wide is the gate to destruction, and many pass through. The gate to salvation and life is small, and only a few find it." -the Bible
QUOTE
I have disowned God in times of hardship and the outcome
i know people who did and their life got much better
Yes...and I never believed in god to disown him in the first place, and my life's been just fine 
People who have disowned God and their lives got better? How about that. Maybe God who spoke through Jesus to "Love those who curse you." practices what He preaches.
Curse Him all you want, Disown Him, Hate Him. Deny Him. BUT? What has that got to do with how He feels about you?
Peter cursed Jesus. What effect did it have on Peter and Christ's relationship?
(MATTHEW 26:74) Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know
not the man. And immediately the c*** crew. (KJV)
(ECCLESIASTES 10:20) Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and
curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall
carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter. (KJV)
Nice prophecy, and right on schedule, all for the day of the cross. And when Jesus heard the c*** crew, He knew Peter had just CURSED HIM.
(LUKE 22:60) And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And
immediately, while he yet spake, the c*** crew. (KJV)
(LUKE 22:61) And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter
remembered the word of the Lord, how he said unto him, Before the
c*** crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. (KJV)
And don't worry too much about hell. It was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sin, He took them all out with Him on the third day and hell ceased to exist.
The day of the cross is as 1,000 years, so the rest of the dead lived not again till the 1,000 years was over, which is the SECOND DAY.
(REVELATION 20:5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until
the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (KJV)
(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)
(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I
have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)
(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body
shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy
dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
(KJV)
When Jesus was in hell, it was as Jonah, one day seen as 3 pictures, not three days and three physical nights. Just 3 pictures of the one day.
(PSALMS 139:8) If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I
make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. (KJV)
(ISAIAH 28:20) For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch
himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap
himself in it. (KJV)
Jonah is a similitude for the day of the cross, Nineveh is a city of three days journey, Jonah enters one days journey, Weeds wrapped aroung Jonah's head in the Whale is the Crown of Thorns for Jesus.
The Gourd is DEATH, (2-Kings 4:39/40) The Shadow of death is pleasant after the day of suffering, Jesus as a Worm in Job 25:6. smites the Gourd or ends death. The day as 3 pictures, 1=Anger, 2=Fury, 3=Wrath, so Jonah is good to be angry unto death. When God pours out His fury, it is looking at the second picture.
Hell seen in the 14th chapter of Isaiah, and the similitude for it ceasing to exist is 14:31
(ISAIAH 14:31) Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina,
art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and
none shall be alone in his appointed times. (KJV)
The SMOKE is their lifting up:
(ISAIAH 9:18) For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour
the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the
forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke. (KJV)
Revelation which is looking at the day of the cross as 7 time periods also shows them lifting up.
(REVELATION 9:2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose
a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the
sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. (KJV)
(REVELATION 9:3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the
earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth
have power. (KJV)
That Swarm of Locust is the dead raised up with Christ:
(NAHUM 3:15) There shall the fire devour thee; the sword shall cut
thee off, it shall eat thee up like the cankerworm: make thyself
many as the cankerworm, make thyself many as the locusts. (KJV)
All mankind is saved by grace. Non-belief is also covered, as God concluded all in Unbelief.
Ken
Curse Him all you want, Disown Him, Hate Him. Deny Him. BUT? What has that got to do with how He feels about you?
Peter cursed Jesus. What effect did it have on Peter and Christ's relationship?
(MATTHEW 26:74) Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know
not the man. And immediately the c*** crew. (KJV)
(ECCLESIASTES 10:20) Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and
curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall
carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter. (KJV)
Nice prophecy, and right on schedule, all for the day of the cross. And when Jesus heard the c*** crew, He knew Peter had just CURSED HIM.
(LUKE 22:60) And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And
immediately, while he yet spake, the c*** crew. (KJV)
(LUKE 22:61) And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter
remembered the word of the Lord, how he said unto him, Before the
c*** crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. (KJV)
And don't worry too much about hell. It was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sin, He took them all out with Him on the third day and hell ceased to exist.
The day of the cross is as 1,000 years, so the rest of the dead lived not again till the 1,000 years was over, which is the SECOND DAY.
(REVELATION 20:5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until
the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (KJV)
(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)
(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I
have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)
(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body
shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy
dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
(KJV)
When Jesus was in hell, it was as Jonah, one day seen as 3 pictures, not three days and three physical nights. Just 3 pictures of the one day.
(PSALMS 139:8) If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I
make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. (KJV)
(ISAIAH 28:20) For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch
himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap
himself in it. (KJV)
Jonah is a similitude for the day of the cross, Nineveh is a city of three days journey, Jonah enters one days journey, Weeds wrapped aroung Jonah's head in the Whale is the Crown of Thorns for Jesus.
The Gourd is DEATH, (2-Kings 4:39/40) The Shadow of death is pleasant after the day of suffering, Jesus as a Worm in Job 25:6. smites the Gourd or ends death. The day as 3 pictures, 1=Anger, 2=Fury, 3=Wrath, so Jonah is good to be angry unto death. When God pours out His fury, it is looking at the second picture.
Hell seen in the 14th chapter of Isaiah, and the similitude for it ceasing to exist is 14:31
(ISAIAH 14:31) Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina,
art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and
none shall be alone in his appointed times. (KJV)
The SMOKE is their lifting up:
(ISAIAH 9:18) For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour
the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the
forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke. (KJV)
Revelation which is looking at the day of the cross as 7 time periods also shows them lifting up.
(REVELATION 9:2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose
a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the
sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. (KJV)
(REVELATION 9:3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the
earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth
have power. (KJV)
That Swarm of Locust is the dead raised up with Christ:
(NAHUM 3:15) There shall the fire devour thee; the sword shall cut
thee off, it shall eat thee up like the cankerworm: make thyself
many as the cankerworm, make thyself many as the locusts. (KJV)
All mankind is saved by grace. Non-belief is also covered, as God concluded all in Unbelief.
Ken
All you(speaking to the so called christians) KNOW ....is what you've been TAUGHT
All you have believed is what you have been TAUGHT.
You say I know there is GOD because you get chills or some spontaneous
Emotion.
None of you know anything other than what you've read in a book or heard
from another man.
How many can say....I was counselled of an Angel so I KNOW....or GOD spoke to me directly in an audible voice so now I KNOW?? I saw GOD so now I KNOW!!
You all know NOTHING other than the smooth trickiness of your tongues to try to prove that God exists to some poor innocent waif. Then leave him in the cold when he can't stand on his own! Wouldn't want to baby him you say. God's giving him trials so you shouldn't interfere.
You've all become foxes in your selling of Christ to people and the people are holden to which ever church they belong to out of shear fear of going to an
imaginery hell that noone has been to.
Give yer heads a shake. That Tsuanmi took alot of people who believed in a God
that would protect them.
Do you think he'll protect you? or your family?Think again.
If you read this and have distain for me....read your bible again....it preaches against having distain for the ungodly.
All you have believed is what you have been TAUGHT.
You say I know there is GOD because you get chills or some spontaneous
Emotion.
None of you know anything other than what you've read in a book or heard
from another man.
How many can say....I was counselled of an Angel so I KNOW....or GOD spoke to me directly in an audible voice so now I KNOW?? I saw GOD so now I KNOW!!
You all know NOTHING other than the smooth trickiness of your tongues to try to prove that God exists to some poor innocent waif. Then leave him in the cold when he can't stand on his own! Wouldn't want to baby him you say. God's giving him trials so you shouldn't interfere.
You've all become foxes in your selling of Christ to people and the people are holden to which ever church they belong to out of shear fear of going to an
imaginery hell that noone has been to.
Give yer heads a shake. That Tsuanmi took alot of people who believed in a God
that would protect them.
Do you think he'll protect you? or your family?Think again.
If you read this and have distain for me....read your bible again....it preaches against having distain for the ungodly.
QUOTE(eveningsky339 @ Jan 8 2005, 10:20 PM)
Free, it's not about God loving you, it's you loving God. Just because life sucks doesn't mean there isn't a God. The reason there is poison, pot, etc is that after Adam and Eve ate the fruit (the Bible doesn't say apple) God had to punish them. The world has become so sinful and evil, myself among them, that we cannot really comprehend what sin really is. We don't understand why God sends people who haven't excepted His son (Jesus) to hell. It's because sin is terrible beyond our human understanding, and the punishment is spiritual and physical death. But God showed mercy, and Adam and Eve just had to put up with a really messed up world with a whole lot of really bad stuff in it (like pot). So the fact that any of us are alive shows God's mercy. The fact that He sent His own Son to die for us shows His unfailing love.
Compared to some people, you had life easy. Look at Job. In a few short days his entire family was dead, he was covered with painful boils, which he scraped and scratched with a piece of pottery. His home was destroyed, and he was left sitting in the ruins when his friends come over and start chewing him out about how bad he is. Why did this happen? God allowed Satan to test him, to see if he would curse and disown God. Despite all his hardships, Job praised God. Soon Job's skin was perfect, he had a much bigger home and family, and he was very rich.
Saying you don't believe in God because of tough times is not a good thing to do. I have disowned God in times of hardship and the outcome....wasn't good. But if you praise God, and believe in Him, and His Son, then remember Job.
You're life has been a whole lot harder than mine, however, and I cannot fully comprehend what life has been like for you. I only pray you pick the right path... "For wide is the gate to destruction, and many pass through. The gate to salvation and life is small, and only a few find it." -the Bible
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Compared to some people, you had life easy. Look at Job. In a few short days his entire family was dead, he was covered with painful boils, which he scraped and scratched with a piece of pottery. His home was destroyed, and he was left sitting in the ruins when his friends come over and start chewing him out about how bad he is. Why did this happen? God allowed Satan to test him, to see if he would curse and disown God. Despite all his hardships, Job praised God. Soon Job's skin was perfect, he had a much bigger home and family, and he was very rich.
Saying you don't believe in God because of tough times is not a good thing to do. I have disowned God in times of hardship and the outcome....wasn't good. But if you praise God, and believe in Him, and His Son, then remember Job.
You're life has been a whole lot harder than mine, however, and I cannot fully comprehend what life has been like for you. I only pray you pick the right path... "For wide is the gate to destruction, and many pass through. The gate to salvation and life is small, and only a few find it." -the Bible
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you forgot about his 10 thousand livestock... all of those died too...
[/QUOTE]The power of self. You alone helped you get through all of this.[QUOTE]
You are a sad, misguided human being. We are fragile beings that will not accomplish anything without hope, love, and trust in God. It is a blind man
that speaks this. We cannot rely on ourselves to accomplish our purpose.
And be warned.... we do have a purpose.
You are a sad, misguided human being. We are fragile beings that will not accomplish anything without hope, love, and trust in God. It is a blind man
that speaks this. We cannot rely on ourselves to accomplish our purpose.
And be warned.... we do have a purpose.
QUOTE(Norman @ Jan 9 2005, 05:17 AM)
The power of self. You alone helped you get through all of this.QUOTE
You are a sad, misguided human being. We are fragile beings that will not accomplish anything without hope, love, and trust in God. It is a blind man
that speaks this. We cannot rely on ourselves to accomplish our purpose.
And be warned.... we do have a purpose.
[right][snapback]442687[/snapback][/right]
if you give all you're credit to something that doesnt exist, you're an ****
God doesnt get you through or make you do anything, and he certainly dont help you achieve things, that would be selection and he is supposed to treat everyone equally.
Its a person-self confidence in their ideas and future.. Their talent ( not gods )
No god is helping you get through something, If you need a god to get through something then that is sad and very low for a human
If you hold a gun to some persons head and say that god made you not pull the trigger. Then that would mean that, if god never told you, you would of pulled it?....
All value of life goes out the window without god ?
then that is terrible view of humanity.
I dont go killing people and not respecting life because there is no god.
Infact Im more interested in NATURE than ever before ( when I did believe in god for 15 years I never seen him, heard him, knew he was there. NOTHING. it was all because adults were telling me there was a god.
Now I look at nature and all the animal life and human and I see how amazing it is. its more amazing than any god.
I totally respect and look at life with much more value ( because I know when we die, we die. So I believe I respect life more than most you christians!
you give people an unsupported false hope, Nothing will get done with a god, Its humans that do things, good or bad.
QUOTE(SilverRain Queen @ Jan 8 2005, 08:39 PM)
All you(speaking to the so called christians) KNOW ....is what you've been TAUGHT
All you have believed is what you have been TAUGHT.
You say I know there is GOD because you get chills or some spontaneous
Emotion.
None of you know anything other than what you've read in a book or heard
from another man.
How many can say....I was counselled of an Angel so I KNOW....or GOD spoke to me directly in an audible voice so now I KNOW?? I saw GOD so now I KNOW!!
You all know NOTHING other than the smooth trickiness of your tongues to try to prove that God exists to some poor innocent waif. Then leave him in the cold when he can't stand on his own! Wouldn't want to baby him you say. God's giving him trials so you shouldn't interfere.
You've all become foxes in your selling of Christ to people and the people are holden to which ever church they belong to out of shear fear of going to an
imaginery hell that noone has been to.
Give yer heads a shake. That Tsuanmi took alot of people who believed in a God
that would protect them.
Do you think he'll protect you? or your family?Think again.
If you read this and have distain for me....read your bible again....it preaches against having distain for the ungodly.
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All you have believed is what you have been TAUGHT.
You say I know there is GOD because you get chills or some spontaneous
Emotion.
None of you know anything other than what you've read in a book or heard
from another man.
How many can say....I was counselled of an Angel so I KNOW....or GOD spoke to me directly in an audible voice so now I KNOW?? I saw GOD so now I KNOW!!
You all know NOTHING other than the smooth trickiness of your tongues to try to prove that God exists to some poor innocent waif. Then leave him in the cold when he can't stand on his own! Wouldn't want to baby him you say. God's giving him trials so you shouldn't interfere.
You've all become foxes in your selling of Christ to people and the people are holden to which ever church they belong to out of shear fear of going to an
imaginery hell that noone has been to.
Give yer heads a shake. That Tsuanmi took alot of people who believed in a God
that would protect them.
Do you think he'll protect you? or your family?Think again.
If you read this and have distain for me....read your bible again....it preaches against having distain for the ungodly.
[right][snapback]442651[/snapback][/right]
And you were taught Theorems and Postulates in Geometry
.I understand what i've been taught and what I have been taught is what I believe because what I have been taught has been proven to me in a Christian Church, and you might as well not ask for it....instead, go there yourself. When the priest imprinted the sign of the cross with holy water on my friends forehead, yeah...thats when I started believing....
QUOTE(Hailo_hellFIRE @ Jan 9 2005, 07:59 AM)
And you were taught Theorems and Postulates in Geometry
.What has that got to do with knowing God or not?I understand what i've been taught and what I have been taught is what I believe because what I have been taught has been proven to me in a Christian Church, and you might as well not ask for it....instead, go there yourself. When the priest imprinted the sign of the cross with holy water on my friends forehead, yeah...thats when I started believing....
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You've still been taught about an invisible God......and as far as your the imprint on your friends forehead......it could have been the DEVIL. and guess what??
YOU STILL DON'T KNOW ....YOU DON'T KNOW GOD. Except that you try
to second guess every miracle that happens and can't even comprehend
the fact that it could possible be your own faith that has brought things about.
Remember, faith is a law.....just like gravity. People use it to do evil too. (Voodoo)
SilverRain Queen.
Thank you. Your REQUIREMENTS you listed for KNOWING God. It confirms it, But I already knew it and it needed no confirmation. I KNOW GOD.
Want an introduction? or does He frighten you? Afraid you might not be as strong if you see He is?
Lots of fighting God here, I wonder why? I have never fought against a sandstone, against a Maple tree. They have no effect, No reason to build a barrier from them. Why a God if He does not exist?
If God does not exist, He can not require anything of you. He can not hurt you, or protect you in any way. You might have good or bad feeling about Him, But it would only mean for your confort if He does not exist.
Accepting Him or Rejecting Him could get you popularity with some, Hate from others. That could be why some will not speak of God in any form. Some countries it might get you imprisioned or killed.
You don't think this immaginary God might have implanted a need for Him within us, do you?
Scripture speaks of His pouring His Spirit (Jesus) upon all flesh, Maybe He is the one inside that will not stop wanting to unite the person with the Father? But that would be underhanded. But it does sound like a great way of doing it.
Is your head fighting God, or your heart? Would you ever be satisfied if you won?
Ken
Thank you. Your REQUIREMENTS you listed for KNOWING God. It confirms it, But I already knew it and it needed no confirmation. I KNOW GOD.
Want an introduction? or does He frighten you? Afraid you might not be as strong if you see He is?
Lots of fighting God here, I wonder why? I have never fought against a sandstone, against a Maple tree. They have no effect, No reason to build a barrier from them. Why a God if He does not exist?
If God does not exist, He can not require anything of you. He can not hurt you, or protect you in any way. You might have good or bad feeling about Him, But it would only mean for your confort if He does not exist.
Accepting Him or Rejecting Him could get you popularity with some, Hate from others. That could be why some will not speak of God in any form. Some countries it might get you imprisioned or killed.
You don't think this immaginary God might have implanted a need for Him within us, do you?
Scripture speaks of His pouring His Spirit (Jesus) upon all flesh, Maybe He is the one inside that will not stop wanting to unite the person with the Father? But that would be underhanded. But it does sound like a great way of doing it.
Is your head fighting God, or your heart? Would you ever be satisfied if you won?
Ken
QUOTE(Ken1Burton @ Jan 9 2005, 10:53 AM)
SilverRain Queen.
Thank you. Your REQUIREMENTS you listed for KNOWING God. It confirms it, But I already knew it and it needed no confirmation. I KNOW GOD.
Want an introduction? or does He frighten you? Afraid you might not be as strong if you see He is?
Lots of fighting God here, I wonder why? I have never fought against a sandstone, against a Maple tree. They have no effect, No reason to build a barrier from them. Why a God if He does not exist?
If God does not exist, He can not require anything of you. He can not hurt you, or protect you in any way. You might have good or bad feeling about Him, But it would only mean for your confort if He does not exist.
Accepting Him or Rejecting Him could get you popularity with some, Hate from others. That could be why some will not speak of God in any form. Some countries it might get you imprisioned or killed.
You don't think this immaginary God might have implanted a need for Him within us, do you?
Scripture speaks of His pouring His Spirit (Jesus) upon all flesh, Maybe He is the one inside that will not stop wanting to unite the person with the Father? But that would be underhanded. But it does sound like a great way of doing it.
Is your head fighting God, or your heart? Would you ever be satisfied if you won?
Ken
[right][snapback]443382[/snapback][/right]
Thank you. Your REQUIREMENTS you listed for KNOWING God. It confirms it, But I already knew it and it needed no confirmation. I KNOW GOD.
Want an introduction? or does He frighten you? Afraid you might not be as strong if you see He is?
Lots of fighting God here, I wonder why? I have never fought against a sandstone, against a Maple tree. They have no effect, No reason to build a barrier from them. Why a God if He does not exist?
If God does not exist, He can not require anything of you. He can not hurt you, or protect you in any way. You might have good or bad feeling about Him, But it would only mean for your confort if He does not exist.
Accepting Him or Rejecting Him could get you popularity with some, Hate from others. That could be why some will not speak of God in any form. Some countries it might get you imprisioned or killed.
You don't think this immaginary God might have implanted a need for Him within us, do you?
Scripture speaks of His pouring His Spirit (Jesus) upon all flesh, Maybe He is the one inside that will not stop wanting to unite the person with the Father? But that would be underhanded. But it does sound like a great way of doing it.
Is your head fighting God, or your heart? Would you ever be satisfied if you won?
Ken
[right][snapback]443382[/snapback][/right]
Again...you are 'surmizing' the fact that a God exists. You say that you KNOW GOD...
What you are really saying is that you have emotional feelings inside of you
that you use as confirmation that a God exists and as far as you are concerned..
that is good enough for you. Well good for you. BUT you still don't KNOW GOD.
Afraid of GOD? Not at all! How can I fear something that doesn't exist?
It's like believing in the boogey man.
And if there is a GOD that exists.....he isn't on this earth!
Just so that you know what you are up against. I was a Christian for 21 years.
When I realized that a neighbour I loved was gonna go to hell because she didn't
believe in Christ....I realized something was wrong here.
Here's the scripture I used to an arrogant GOD...if he actually exists.
Exodus 32
31And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; AND IF NOT, BLOT ME, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
So I say to GOD......If you are going to kill my brother/sister....then BLOT ME out of your book!
and if you read on....GOD basically tells Moses to shut up and says he'll only blot
those out that have sinned against him.
Now I am happy, not depressed any more and I don't have fake christians persecuting me. If there is a GOD...it's Satan pretending to be an Angel of Light
and mercy.......giving false hope to a guible people.
SilverRain.
Your neighbour was never in danger of hell in any form. Nor is anyone else. Even if we think some like terorists need to go there.
Hell was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sins. That is what Hosea's 6:2/3 is all about. The Dead are awakened, then raised up.
But those raised do not know the Lord yet. But they go on to know Him.
(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)
(HOSEA 6:3) Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto
us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (KJV)
God uses similitudes. The day of the cross is as 1,000 years, so the rest of the dead in Revelation lived not again till the 1,000 years was over, which is the Second day.
Jesus ended past and present sins the day of the cross with His stripes we are helaed, But He took Future sins to Golgotha, or while we were yet sinners, or still being humans and falling short. Christ died for us.
Do you think the love you have for your neighbour is greater then Christ's love for them? Jesus did not ask Barabbas if He believed in Him, He just took His place. He just took our place. God concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy on us all, and He did.
God like any parent tells us to do right, and tries to get us to do that as if punishment might come if we do not. We have used the same things with our children. But after the Child grows, and if they have tried to do right.Then they start doing right, not because of a threat, But because they see it was right to do in the first place.
God allowed making to start to grow in knowledge before He started to let people know about Himself. The World was very cruel in many areas. Like in Egypt. So a loving God taught the Children of Israel, then sent them into Egypt, to show Himself to the world. Later he did the same thing in Babylon. Gathering most of the world, and in 70 years He showed through Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego a God this world has never known.
God does not have an easy job with this Human Race. But He created us in His image and that means a lot to Him. Lots of the Stories are similitues. The Creation story in the Garden. Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's flood. All similitudes for the day of the cross, When God places all sin upon one man, a Man who loves us enough to take what was coming to us.
The Churches make big bucks preaching hell is waiting. But if you would not send your neighbour to hell, Why would God?
(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)
Ken
Your neighbour was never in danger of hell in any form. Nor is anyone else. Even if we think some like terorists need to go there.
Hell was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sins. That is what Hosea's 6:2/3 is all about. The Dead are awakened, then raised up.
But those raised do not know the Lord yet. But they go on to know Him.
(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)
(HOSEA 6:3) Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto
us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (KJV)
God uses similitudes. The day of the cross is as 1,000 years, so the rest of the dead in Revelation lived not again till the 1,000 years was over, which is the Second day.
Jesus ended past and present sins the day of the cross with His stripes we are helaed, But He took Future sins to Golgotha, or while we were yet sinners, or still being humans and falling short. Christ died for us.
Do you think the love you have for your neighbour is greater then Christ's love for them? Jesus did not ask Barabbas if He believed in Him, He just took His place. He just took our place. God concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy on us all, and He did.
God like any parent tells us to do right, and tries to get us to do that as if punishment might come if we do not. We have used the same things with our children. But after the Child grows, and if they have tried to do right.Then they start doing right, not because of a threat, But because they see it was right to do in the first place.
God allowed making to start to grow in knowledge before He started to let people know about Himself. The World was very cruel in many areas. Like in Egypt. So a loving God taught the Children of Israel, then sent them into Egypt, to show Himself to the world. Later he did the same thing in Babylon. Gathering most of the world, and in 70 years He showed through Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego a God this world has never known.
God does not have an easy job with this Human Race. But He created us in His image and that means a lot to Him. Lots of the Stories are similitues. The Creation story in the Garden. Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's flood. All similitudes for the day of the cross, When God places all sin upon one man, a Man who loves us enough to take what was coming to us.
The Churches make big bucks preaching hell is waiting. But if you would not send your neighbour to hell, Why would God?
(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)
Ken
QUOTE(Ken1Burton @ Jan 9 2005, 11:48 AM)
SilverRain.
Your neighbour was never in danger of hell in any form. Nor is anyone else. Even if we think some like terorists need to go there.
Hell was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sins. That is what Hosea's 6:2/3 is all about. The Dead are awakened, then raised up.
But those raised do not know the Lord yet. But they go on to know Him.
(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)
(HOSEA 6:3) Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto
us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (KJV)
God uses similitudes. The day of the cross is as 1,000 years, so the rest of the dead in Revelation lived not again till the 1,000 years was over, which is the Second day.
Jesus ended past and present sins the day of the cross with His stripes we are helaed, But He took Future sins to Golgotha, or while we were yet sinners, or still being humans and falling short. Christ died for us.
Do you think the love you have for your neighbour is greater then Christ's love for them? Jesus did not ask Barabbas if He believed in Him, He just took His place. He just took our place. God concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy on us all, and He did.
God like any parent tells us to do right, and tries to get us to do that as if punishment might come if we do not. We have used the same things with our children. But after the Child grows, and if they have tried to do right.Then they start doing right, not because of a threat, But because they see it was right to do in the first place.
God allowed making to start to grow in knowledge before He started to let people know about Himself. The World was very cruel in many areas. Like in Egypt. So a loving God taught the Children of Israel, then sent them into Egypt, to show Himself to the world. Later he did the same thing in Babylon. Gathering most of the world, and in 70 years He showed through Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego a God this world has never known.
God does not have an easy job with this Human Race. But He created us in His image and that means a lot to Him. Lots of the Stories are similitues. The Creation story in the Garden. Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's flood. All similitudes for the day of the cross, When God places all sin upon one man, a Man who loves us enough to take what was coming to us.
The Churches make big bucks preaching hell is waiting. But if you would not send your neighbour to hell, Why would God?
(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)
Ken
[right][snapback]443428[/snapback][/right]
Your neighbour was never in danger of hell in any form. Nor is anyone else. Even if we think some like terorists need to go there.
Hell was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sins. That is what Hosea's 6:2/3 is all about. The Dead are awakened, then raised up.
But those raised do not know the Lord yet. But they go on to know Him.
(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)
(HOSEA 6:3) Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto
us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (KJV)
God uses similitudes. The day of the cross is as 1,000 years, so the rest of the dead in Revelation lived not again till the 1,000 years was over, which is the Second day.
Jesus ended past and present sins the day of the cross with His stripes we are helaed, But He took Future sins to Golgotha, or while we were yet sinners, or still being humans and falling short. Christ died for us.
Do you think the love you have for your neighbour is greater then Christ's love for them? Jesus did not ask Barabbas if He believed in Him, He just took His place. He just took our place. God concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy on us all, and He did.
God like any parent tells us to do right, and tries to get us to do that as if punishment might come if we do not. We have used the same things with our children. But after the Child grows, and if they have tried to do right.Then they start doing right, not because of a threat, But because they see it was right to do in the first place.
God allowed making to start to grow in knowledge before He started to let people know about Himself. The World was very cruel in many areas. Like in Egypt. So a loving God taught the Children of Israel, then sent them into Egypt, to show Himself to the world. Later he did the same thing in Babylon. Gathering most of the world, and in 70 years He showed through Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego a God this world has never known.
God does not have an easy job with this Human Race. But He created us in His image and that means a lot to Him. Lots of the Stories are similitues. The Creation story in the Garden. Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's flood. All similitudes for the day of the cross, When God places all sin upon one man, a Man who loves us enough to take what was coming to us.
The Churches make big bucks preaching hell is waiting. But if you would not send your neighbour to hell, Why would God?
(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)
Ken
[right][snapback]443428[/snapback][/right]
OMG......did you not read(exodus) the fact that GOD killed those people for not
believing?
You only have a history book in your hands, and your interpretation like everyone elses is just SURMIZING.
Go on and believe your little meadow of daises and blue skies if you want.
The fact remains that the GOD of the bible is a killer.
QUOTE
You are a sad, misguided human being. We are fragile beings that will not accomplish anything without hope, love, and trust in God.
This is simply laughable. Plenty of people have accomplished amazing things without trust in a magical man in the sky. I find it sad that you believe success can only come from those following your specific beliefs.
And you were taught Theorems and Postulates in Geometry .What has that got to do with knowing God or not?
Its an example. We were taught Theorems and Postulates like we were taught that there is a God. Except that Theorems and Postulates have been scientifically bounded as a Law.
Did I in anyway say "I know God"? NO! So why in the world did you put that in your post?!
My friend fainted when the cross was imprinted on his forehead and wasn't concious for a couple of minutes....if could have been the Devil, but who knows? Certainly you don't, but I believe it was the Lord speaking to my friend because thats exactly what the priest told me what would happen...
(can a christian explain to me what this is called again?)
And every miracle that you said 'I can't comprehend' is based on my faith, yes. I do second guess, but the most logical and explainable one based on what was taught to me points to explanations based on my faith.
Faith may be a law, but I also didn't say it wasn't, read closely to people posts next time. Your also saying that people use faith to do evil, like Voodoo? I don't believe in Voodoo.
.What has that got to do with knowing God or not?Its an example. We were taught Theorems and Postulates like we were taught that there is a God. Except that Theorems and Postulates have been scientifically bounded as a Law.
QUOTE(SilverRain Queen @ Jan 9 2005, 09:36 AM)
You've still been taught about an invisible God......and as far as your the imprint on your friends forehead......it could have been the DEVIL. and guess what??
YOU STILL DON'T KNOW ....YOU DON'T KNOW GOD. Except that you try
to second guess every miracle that happens and can't even comprehend
the fact that it could possible be your own faith that has brought things about.
Remember, faith is a law.....just like gravity. People use it to do evil too. (Voodoo)
[right][snapback]443319[/snapback][/right]
YOU STILL DON'T KNOW ....YOU DON'T KNOW GOD. Except that you try
to second guess every miracle that happens and can't even comprehend
the fact that it could possible be your own faith that has brought things about.
Remember, faith is a law.....just like gravity. People use it to do evil too. (Voodoo)
[right][snapback]443319[/snapback][/right]
Did I in anyway say "I know God"? NO! So why in the world did you put that in your post?!
My friend fainted when the cross was imprinted on his forehead and wasn't concious for a couple of minutes....if could have been the Devil, but who knows? Certainly you don't, but I believe it was the Lord speaking to my friend because thats exactly what the priest told me what would happen...
(can a christian explain to me what this is called again?)
And every miracle that you said 'I can't comprehend' is based on my faith, yes. I do second guess, but the most logical and explainable one based on what was taught to me points to explanations based on my faith.
Faith may be a law, but I also didn't say it wasn't, read closely to people posts next time. Your also saying that people use faith to do evil, like Voodoo? I don't believe in Voodoo.
funny thing i read. some christians did not want to leave florida during the hurricane. they taught that god would stop the hurricane from destroying their houses. their houses got obliverated like the others..........
QUOTE(Hailo_hellFIRE @ Jan 9 2005, 12:31 PM)
Did I in anyway say "I know God"? NO! So why in the world did you put that in your post?!
My friend fainted when the cross was imprinted on his forehead and wasn't concious for a couple of minutes....if could have been the Devil, but who knows? Certainly you don't, but I believe it was the Lord speaking to my friend because thats exactly what the priest told me what would happen...
(can a christian explain to me what this is called again?)
And every miracle that you said 'I can't comprehend' is based on my faith, yes. I do second guess, but the most logical and explainable one based on what was taught to me points to explanations based on my faith.
Faith may be a law, but I also didn't say it wasn't, read closely to people posts next time. Your also saying that people use faith to do evil, like Voodoo? I don't believe in Voodoo.
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Hey....Go on and believe what ever you want
.....just don't try to make others converts with your weak analagies.
QUOTE(Hotoke @ Jan 9 2005, 12:37 PM)
funny thing i read. some christians did not want to leave florida during the hurricane. they taught that god would stop the hurricane from destroying their houses. their houses got obliverated like the others..........
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EXACTLY!
Then they go into denial and say it was God's trial and they need to see the good
side of it.
QUOTE(SilverRain Queen @ Jan 9 2005, 12:46 PM)
Hey....Go on and believe what ever you want .....just don't try to make others converts with your weak analagies.
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.....just don't try to make others converts with your weak analagies.[right][snapback]443489[/snapback][/right]
Weak? I think 2 lines is weak enough.....if it was even a thorough response.
I don't have the right to convert people to Christianity, nor do I want to. People have the right to believe anything. I am not trying to 'prove' God exists.
I have this to say....
Christains, please do not insult the atheists.
Atheists, please to not insult the Christains.
Chimpanzees, put the knives down.....thank you.
Christains, please do not insult the atheists.
Atheists, please to not insult the Christains.
Chimpanzees, put the knives down.....thank you.
SilverRain Queen, Why was it for 21 years you were a Christian? Is it a case now that you don't beleive He exists or is it you beleive He exists, but you don't want to follow Him?
dude, rufio, silver said tons of times that she doesn't believe there is a God.
honestly, i think athiests and christians should agree to disagree. If someone comes up to me, and wants to learn about christianity, i will tell them. I don't try converting people who obviously don't want to be preached to. The only other way i could go on a rant about christianity is if i'm correcting someone about something they said. Everyone else should do the same. Athiest should just stop trying to prove there isn't a God, and christians should only talk to other christians about their proof of God. Every single discussion in this section of the forum turns into a "there is a God/there isn't a God" debate. Can we stop acting like children here?
honestly, i think athiests and christians should agree to disagree. If someone comes up to me, and wants to learn about christianity, i will tell them. I don't try converting people who obviously don't want to be preached to. The only other way i could go on a rant about christianity is if i'm correcting someone about something they said. Everyone else should do the same. Athiest should just stop trying to prove there isn't a God, and christians should only talk to other christians about their proof of God. Every single discussion in this section of the forum turns into a "there is a God/there isn't a God" debate. Can we stop acting like children here?
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