Yes, I know the verse. We're all sons of God, but we're talking about THE son. God in the flesh. So I don't understand why you responded with this verse.


Do you mean that you're absolutely positive that Christianity is false? How so? I'd like to know what the questions were that you had that you couldn't get answered that convinced you to turn away. The unanswered questions that made it undeniable in your mind that Christanity is false. I'm not out there to insult you or anything. I just want to know what it is that makes people turn away.

Oh, and I'm relaxed. I just wanted to clear up any miscommunications we might have had.

According to this verse and this one:
Genesis 6:4[I](KJV)
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Is Jesus the only son?For me....Yes. But that is My belief. You feel differently so for you he is real. Again different people different reasons. The reason I found might be different for LBD (A good guy) and his from yours.There was some? Sorry I didn't know.

Jesus as the "Son" of God means more like "essence" of God from what I've gathered. Jesus IS God, just in human form. The other "sons" are angelic beings He created from what I understand. But they're not God. So Jesus is the only"essence" of God in the flesh because He is God. There may be a better answer yet, but I'd have to do a little more research, ask a few people, etc.



So what specifically made you denounce Christianity? What were the unanswered questions that you have that convinced you to turn away? And you'd be surprised at how many people have similar reasons for turning away. But you're right, not everyone's experience is exactly the same.

You were trying to make sure I understood what the Trinity was are you sure you understand?I was only talking about the "Sons of God" plural as in more than two. It was not one set thing or unanswered questions....A kind of mix and some of them are sort of personal.

Yes I understand. Not sure if you do yet though.


And I was saying that they're not "sons" like Jesus is. Jesus is a whole different deal. God is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The other sons are not God.

I guess I'm trying to figure out why you brought this up. From what I understand, you're trying to say that the Bible says God has an only son, and also says He has sons (pl.) and that's somehow a contradiction. So I was trying to show you how it's not a contradiction. If this is not your intent by presenting these passages from the Bible, then why are you bringing this up?


Try me. Whatever you feel comfortable with sharing, please do. As a Christian, I need to know these things in order to affectively minister to people. I won't shove my beliefs down your throat (and it's your choice to come here, so it wouldn't be forcing anyway), but I think it's good to discuss it and just to have on hand to help me see where people are coming from.

Trust me I do. Jesus is a part of God just like the Holy Spirit (Ghost) and God. "TRI"as in Trinity meaning three aspects of God. As to the other sons the Bible refers to them as "The Sons of God" but then if you look at this:
John 3:16 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Please note it says "only begotten Son".

Jesus said "I AM," meaning He is God. This is the whole reason He was crucified. It was blasphemy back then to claim to be a deity.




Yes, and we're all sons and daughters of God as well. But "begotten" in this sense, from what I gather, means the only essence of God. The only part of God. The only being that constitues God in the flesh. He calls Jesus "son" to distinguish the fleshly human aspect of Himself from the Heavenly aspect and Spirit aspect. But He's not a separate being from God like we are or like the angels.

Then why not just say the sons and daughters of man or the sons and daughters of God? Read the first 5 or 6 verses of Genesis chapter 6.

Well, the Bible says that we're all his children so that means that we're His sons and daughters. But in this text, it was distinguishing heavenly beings from earthly beings. It does say this in verse 2: "the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose." It's clarifying that in this case the "sons" are angels.

"Then why not just say 'angels'?" you may ask. This is just how the original text translates to English. Different languages word things differently. But it's still saying the same thing. Our language would probably rather say "angels," whereas the original language probably used both phrases interchangably.

Christopher.

I say all people go to heaven. Even Adolf Hitler is already there, all the ones on the planes that hit the twin towers, Terrorists, pilots, passengers and those in the towers, all saved by grace.

Telling Light that there might have been hope, is a hope for Light to learn, Not a hope for salvation.

What you think I am showing is what many people here are seeing, It is Jesus or Hopeless. I just wanted to use an opportunity to tell Zandore, to come Home to Jesus for I believe Zandore is not a non-believer but just angry with God for some reason.

Fire is seen as God’s word:

(JEREMIAH 23:29) Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and
like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? (KJV)

Brimstone seen as the Breath of the Lord, or the Holy Spirit:

(ISAIAH 30:33) For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it
is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is
fire and much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of
brimstone, doth kindle it. (KJV)

“NDE” What is that?

Isaiah 30:33 is for the day of the cross, Likened to Jesus going through hell for us. The torment is caring for others, “Here is the Patience of the Saints, Here are those who keep the commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus.”

(REVELATION 14:10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of
God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his
indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in
the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (KJV)
(REVELATION 14:11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for
ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the
beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (KJV)
(REVELATION 14:12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are
they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (KJV)

“For ever” is the day of the cross, a day taken out of time, “For ever and ever is the day of the cross and everlasting future. The Smoke seen as them lifting up. The 144 with Judas are the Holy angles given charge over Jesus.


It is nice you PROMOTE Jesus, But when you are King of Kings, Lord of Lords and as Zechariah 12:8 shows: “AS GOD” it is kind of hard to be promoted by men.

(JOHN 5:41) I receive not honour from men. (KJV)

No matter what people say of Jesus, It is what God has said about Him that Honours Him. And nothing can take away from or add to that Honour. For He is the fulfillment of God’s words. Unbelief does not take Him down from the Cross at Golgotha.

(MATTHEW 10:35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his
father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in
law against her mother in law. (KJV)

God doubles twice to establish His words, three pictures of a House divided. As all is established the day of the cross, it is a Holy God with eyes purer then to look on Iniquity, and a Son on whom God has laid the iniquity of the world.

(HABAKKUK 1:13) Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and
canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that
deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked
devoureth the man that is more righteous than he? (KJV)

(ISAIAH 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned
every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the
iniquity of us all. (KJV)

Jesus with all sin is the Wicked, as He consumes all mankind which has His righteousness upon them from Job 33:26. So as Hosea 13:8 shows, He devours them like a Lion.

Seven times seventy is 490 times. Not 77. But the concept is the same.

Part of dividing a family is a separation of seeing our Family as those of what I will call our immediately family, and seeing that our Family is all mankind. For we all have one Father. To those who wrestle with Genealogy records, Just go back one generation and forget it, God is our Father. All Children belong to us, when even those who are our physical children become adults, they are Brothers and Sisters in Christ, Same as our parents are.

If you don’t believe in Cruelty in any form, The Lessons of life might be a bit hard to learn. How would be able to learn to love our Enemies if we did not have any? And if we get past the easy enemies would we not need a worst one to make us grow?

Like a person wanting to build up their body, But would not lift beyond a ten pound weight. That does not build up strength. And the Trials and tribulations we have on earth often come from God, as He teaches us in the Way we should go. Often to show others how to endure.

It is not a question if you are Anti-Christian, But do you believe in Christ? Do you believe in God? Do you believe in what the Scriptures show you? I listed “Show You” as what one sees is the only thing which can be accepted, Even if it is not seen clearly. However every belief can be searched and reconsidered as new information comes in.

A firm believer in love? OK, What about when love has to get a bit hard? When really caring means you have to let your child or love one get hurt a bit. Like them stealing, and you not protecting them but allowing them to be responsible for their own actions. And this concept goes way beyond just a theft. It is dealing with others out of love.

Many can see our going into Iraq as an act of love for others. But where this might fits into your moral code is in your own sight. I guess Love is in the eye of the Beholder.

There will be no Eternally absent from Heaven, Jesus took away the sin of the world, He took them out of hell on the third day and shut it down by grace. Those not found written in the Lamb’s book of Life are not yet conceived, they will be written in when they are. They are immersed already in God’s word like as a fire as being covered, Immersed in God’s word is to be cast into the Lake of fire, and that is also to be Baptized with fire, or immersed in God’s word.

Death and hell was immersed or cast into the lake of fire the day of the cross as all was fulfilled and made truth. The Second death or lake of fire does not hurt the overcomers at Smyrna, which is th second church or step to God, First is just to come and look, Second or Smyrna is o BELIEVE. It will not hurt you to be immersed in God’s word if you already believe. Sixth step is to be made a pillar in the Temple of God, Seventh is to sit with Jesus in His throne.

Seventh is also seen as the Lukewarm, Those in hell with Jesus, So God spues them out of His mouth, or the Mouth of the Sepulchre, Like the whale spued out Jonah.

The no eternal absent also means you might be living next to those who commanded the planes which flew into the twin towers in Heaven, But it will be no problem. The Gates of heaven have a great ability known as Attitude adjustment.


Lightbeyondthedark.

It is not a question of “IF” I have a very strange view on Christianity, But if God is showing me the Correct view.

And I also show references which shed some light on what I am using as a Scriptural basis for the concepts.

It is called “Cause for Search” Like:

(EXODUS 4:11) And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's
mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the
blind? have not I the Lord? (KJV)
(MATTHEW 12:22) Then was brought unto him one possessed with a
devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind
and dumb both spake and saw. (KJV)

You might not want to look close, But there is cause to open up your eyes and heart to see if God might have something hidden? Even Himself.

Respect is not footprints which you leave everywhere. Real Respect is what is given after the respect is seen as appropriate to that one. Like Mother Teresa, She earned our respect. And I did not see her as one doing it to get respect. For if the Respect is just poured out, Has it any value in your eyes?

“You know not the Day of Hour when the Son of Man cometh.” He did not say when the Son of Man cometh physically, did He?

Ever hear of the Expression “Born Again”. That is when Jesus comes in a whole different way to a person. He moves into our Upper Room. He might have been in our Heart, Now He fills the House.

“He cometh with Clouds”, He did, it was between Sunset and Midnight as He said “Thy will be done.” three times which ESTABLISHED it before God. That is the first 6-hours, the first seal is the WHITE HORSE. And there Jesus took upon Him our sin:

(ISAIAH 44:22) I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy
transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I
have redeemed thee. (KJV)

Jesus said what He would do at the Last Supper, Now He has to go and do it, So the Rider on the White Horse goes forth conquering and to Conquer. Death, sin and hell are about to be dealt with.

Jesus is Leviathan, So taking the Bread and saying This is my Body is the same thing, For it was not the bread, that was a Similitude for the Words of God Jesus just gave them to eat, and His blood is His life given to them to also live within.


Christopher:

ASSUMPTION: “No one on this forum has had such a powerful experience.” Only each person knows what they have had, and many do not talk about some things.

God takes people through all forms of things. Mental illness is not anything that you choose. And maybe if everyone got the same thoughts coming in, the reaction would be the same.

One thing I have found, When thoughts do not go away, they need to be looked at close to see why? If dreams reappear, they have a reason. There is a God, and He shares this head we have, and He knows our thoughts.

For His thoughts are not our thoughts, But who can tell if what we just thought was our own? Or did God just plant one for a reason?


Lover of God:

“There it is” He will not drink of the fruit of the Vine till He drinks it new with us in His Father’s Kingdom.

GUESS what VINEgar is???

That was a Prophecy, all prophecies are for the day of the cross, and Jesus knowing all things were fulfilled that the Scriptures might be fulfilled, said “I THIRST.” For He has to drink of the Fruit of the Vine and allow Himself to die.

(JOHN 19:28) After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now
accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I
thirst. (KJV)
(JOHN 19:29) Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they
filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to
his mouth. (KJV)
(JOHN 19:30) When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he
said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. (KJV)

That statement at the last supper is also Jesus taking the vow of a Nazarite, They could not have anything of the vine, as Jesus SEPARATED Himself to God.


Sithlard:

Heaven is likened to His (Jesus’) days. So the perfect place, is also “The Heavens suffered violence, and don’t forget “And there was WAR in Heaven.”

Like Ice, water and steam?

How about Life, Like God, mankind, rabbits and germs? Not quite all the same are they? Just all listed with a same attribute. For some time anyway. Life is a bit longer for some.

Jesus is David’s physical son, raised to be the Son of God, as God said HIMSELF.

Ken

Well why is it that I don't see what you see? WHy is it we believe differently even though we are both christians?

Do not I also show references? I think I do...

The thing is, what I say people can understand, and what I see makes sense... I never want it to seem like I think your a bad person Ken, because I know your just trying to get a good message out there to people... But why is it people understand me, and not you so much... Why is it they listen to me and not to you so much? Could it be my message is easy to understand? Hmm...

Just want to say again, that no matter how much I disagree with you Ken, I never want to make it seem like I hate you or anything... Even though the whole respect thing does still bother me...

just my humble opinion...

LBD

Lightbeyondthedark.

The reason you can not see this is because of what it takes to see this as Truth. It takes throwing away almost all of what you believe to be Sound Doctrine, What you have been taught, and what others see.

This is part of God’s timetable. A revealing of the Truths kept hidden even from the Disciples and Paul, Even Jesus was sealed from seeing many things. For Jesus would have revealed them to us. And God did not want that to happen then.

The Jewish Nation WILL see this is Truth. The Jewish Nation will put this all together and come to know Jesus is the Messiah in 2029 ad. That is Already Established by God. Believe it or not, It is.

Their sleep from seeing has almost ended. Everything is documented, they can not be seen now as having changed the Scripture to fit Jesus, For they have had 2,000 years to show they would not change it to fit Jesus. Well documented evidence that they were as enemies of Christianity.

Your message is easy for them to believe for it fits in with what they have been told all their lives. Like the Jewish nation. Most Christians see them as Christ’s enemies, that they killed Jesus, Not that God used them to fulfill His will and that He blinded them from seeing Jesus is the Messiah.

The Assumption is that they did not receive Jesus, not that there was no may they could receive Him. That they were for witnesses that the Old Testament existed, and was not changed to fit Jesus. This is their witness and they have fulfilled that work.

Ken

I really tried to be nice, but you make it very hard...
Get this through your head... I don't believe in things simply because they were taught to me... I find the truth for myself...
Everything you say really does not sound like truth to me at all, except it...
I am tired of hearing that you are right, and I am wrong, except it...

Honestly Ken, there is no getting through to you... There in no way of you looking at things from someone elses perspective... I guess I am just more empathetic then you...
Thats all I have to say...

just my humble opinion...

LBD

LBD already did that. As I told him ....thanks but no thanks.No.... I am not angry with something I don't believe in. Near Death Experience. N.E.D. Google it if you are not sure.The correct for you maybe but God has shown LBD the correct view for him. Again your version of truth right?Or he might see that you have something hidden?Yes an so is oVINE and boVINE and a few others.ken ask others on this forum how easy it is to understand you. ask the MODS if you don't trust what we say.

Hows to say that you are seeing the truth? I remember that you said that some Church Elders or some one like that did not want anything to do with you.Trying to put myself in your place (and it was hard) if one or two people said that I was wrong I would think that it was them. But if most or all said that them I would stop and look at what I thought was right and do a reality check.How is it that he showed these "truths" to you and not to his own son.

[/QUOTE]I say all people go to heaven. Even Adolf Hitler is already there, all the ones on the planes that hit the twin towers, Terrorists, pilots, passengers and those in the towers, all saved by grace.[QUOTE]
YOU CANNOT BE SAVED BY GRACE WITHOUT ASKING FOR IT!!!! jesus said we are saved by grace THROUGH HIM!

[QUOTE]What you think I am showing is what many people here are seeing, It is Jesus or Hopeless. I just wanted to use an opportunity to tell Zandore, to come Home to Jesus for I believe Zandore is not a non-believer but just angry with God for some reason.[/QUOTE]
why dont you just LEAVE ZANDORE ALONE? if he is going to come to christ, he'll do it. you cant tell him to, make him do it. he has to want it for himself. regardless, you need to stop forcing ur belief on the NB's, ur hurting the credibility of all christians because you are posting blasphemous things!!!

[QUOTE]Fire is seen as God’s word:

(JEREMIAH 23:29) Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and
like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? (KJV)[/QUOTE]
FIRE THAT IS BURNING INSIDE!!! THAT YOU CANT CONTAIN NOR EXTINGUISH!! THAT MUST BE SPREAD!!!

[QUOTE]“For ever” is the day of the cross, a day taken out of time, “For ever and ever is the day of the cross and everlasting future. The Smoke seen as them lifting up. The 144 with Judas are the Holy angles given charge over Jesus.[/QUOTE]
you STILL think judas will be in heaven? are you serious? the man that was NOT saved, and delivered Gods son into captivity? are you serious?


[QUOTE]It is nice you PROMOTE Jesus, But when you are King of Kings, Lord of Lords and as Zechariah 12:8 shows: “AS GOD” it is kind of hard to be promoted by men.

(JOHN 5:41) I receive not honour from men. (KJV)

No matter what people say of Jesus, It is what God has said about Him that Honours Him. And nothing can take away from or add to that Honour. For He is the fulfillment of God’s words. Unbelief does not take Him down from the Cross at Golgotha. [/QUOTE]
look dude, we are not to honor jesus, we are to worship him and his name. we are to follow in his footsteps, the best we can, for we are only saved WITH him.



Ken, im not going to say that ur not quoting the right scripture, you are. you can know every line of scripture by heart, and still have no knowledge. just as you can know everything in the bible and still go to hell. KNOWING IS NOT BELIEVING, and right now, my friend, you know but not believe. ill pray for you my friend, ill pray for you to have your heart influenced by the holy Lord Almighty, and when it happens, you will know what it is like to know and believe.

Amen...LBD and I have told him this before.

maybe one more cant hurt. he thinks he is ministering to people, but he is not only hurting the credibility of all of us christians, but he is also hurting the credibility of the word of God, to some people.

After someone reads a post or two they realise just what he is even if they can not understand him.

the main problem is that he is probably turning people away from christ. u know?

Turning people away from Christ in the name of God?

in the name of God? a lot of people do things that turn people from Christ. he may be doing it inadvertantly(sp). but it is possible. its like me yelling that all NBs are going to burn.. that would turn someone from Jesus and God. wouldnt it?

I thought we were talking about just one person.And it was intended as a sort of joke but you are right.

oh. ok.

Well how about if god does exists which I hope and prey he does.
Do you think he could get back to me and tell me its going to be ok?

pray to him. thats all that can be done. he'll get back to you, hes never left you.. if your going through hard times, hes probably carrying you through.

I think it is called faith. You need to have faith in someone or something to help you though hard times.
PS A good friend helps once in awhile.

Sorry for my spelling friends.
Honest now I do look for faith but it is not there!
I wish I could feel god
I try but I cannot find god
hand on heart I will keep trying
My love to you all.

oh, well, faith is believing no matter what.... if u need a friend, my name is mike and my email is gokuss478124@yahoo.com email me anytime.

My advice is to read the Bible. It's God's instruction manual for learning about Him, having faith, living a righteous life the best you can, and logically interpreting why life is the way it is. Start by reading the Gospels and the words of Jesus. Next, read - well - any new Testament books. The Old testament is a bit harder to understand, but in light of the New Testament it makes more sense. The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed. The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.

Next, find a good Church. This may sound silly, but you need to find the people who can mentor you, and help you answer any questions you may have. Everyone needs people to look up to and rely on. If you're looking for faith in Christ, then you'll need a smart, kind and loving follower of Christ to mentor you.

I'd also recommend books by Josh McDowell. He was an atheist searching to prove the Bible to be untrue. The more he researched, the more the facts seemed to confirm the Bible. "The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict" is a good one. Also, Lee Strobel wrote "The Case For Christ," which is also pretty good. Lastly, any book from Answers In Genesis is good reading. Also the Q&A section of that site is really informative.

Sith no disrespect intended but not every one can find what they need in the Bible. Tam might need look else where to find what he needs.

But it could be that he finds it there. There's nothing wrong with recommending what I believe. Tam doesn't have to take my advice if he doesn't want to.

I believe in absolute truth. And if I'm right, then there is only one truth for everyone, and everyone just needs to find it. To me, saying everyone needs to find their own truth is like saying that if you don't believe you'll get hit by that car coming for you that you won't get hit. I believe the car's coming no matter what and it's just logical to walk along the right path to avoid it.

Plus, if everyone needs to find their own truth, then what's the harm in believing what I believe, or recommending it to someone else? If everyone has their own truth, then everyone is right in what they believe so it wouldn't matter anyway.

It's ok if you don't agree, but I need to to respect what I believe as well. That means that if I recommend what I believe to be absolute truth to someone, that it's that person's right to either take my advice or avoid it. They don't have to listen to me at all if they don't want to, so there's nothing wrong with me posting what I posted.

It could be that it is what he needs, Just don't limit the options that you give.

Well, the only options I see are either believe in Christ, or believe something else. But ultimately I believe that Christ is the right path for everyone and they just have to find Him. But again, you have the choice not to believe it. I think that to not believe in absolute truth is folly. To say that everyone is right just doesn't make sense. We're living in a world filled with right and wrong choices everyday. So it only makes sense that there's one right way to believe as well in my opinion, and it's just a matter of finding it.

honestly... I was on that path, and it didn't suit me. The path I'm on now does. So please try to understand... not everyone feels that Christ is the right way.

I'm not saying that everyone should feel it's the right way. Feelings can be from truth, but they can also betray. The trick is being able to distinguish truthful feelings from the untruthful.

What I'm saying in the end is that it doesn't matter if you feel it's not right or not if it is in fact the right way. It's like the example I gave. It wouldn't matter if I felt that car was not going to hit me. I'm standing in the wrong place and it will hit me no matter what I feel beforehand. And lets say there's only one path in existence on that road to jump out of the way. I know it sounds harsh, but I simply believe in absolutes because that's what the world shows me. Making decisions based on emotions/feelings is only part of the path. The rest is logical.

Lightbeyondthedark.

Your question was why you could not see, what I was seeing. What kind of answer did you expect? Bottom line: Get the windows open.

(MALACHI 3:10) Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that
there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith
the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven,
and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to
receive it. (KJV)

The Windows of Heaven are looking at the day of the cross, His days are likened to Heaven. God says do this and PROVE ME. B-U-T, This is a Similitude. It does not deal with Tithes. It deals with seeing all mankind is in the Body of Christ, or fill the storehouse. That is TOTAL. Leave not one person outside.

Everyone who had died prior the Jesus going into hell. Everyone who was alive then. Everyone who will ever live seeing this now is world without end. See everyone saved by grace. A-N-D, by whatever names you want to use: The Devil, Satan, the Serpent, Lucifer, Leviathan, the Beast, The False Prophet, or the Dragon.

IF you have not got them also into the GRACE OF GOD. You have not filled the Storehouse. Even if you do not believe who I said they are, still see the Love of God saved everyone. Fallen angels or any other similitude God uses. Babylon the Great. Get them all in. T-H-E-N you have proved God. He has to open the windows as He said He would, and as He will.

Right now my main concern is that I see there is another angel on this thread. And this is not a chance happening. A door in Heaven is open, and that angel is the Light within it.

Christopher is an Angel, No doubt about it. Those are visions. And when a vision is seen, it REVEALS things yet unseen.

I have said the day of the cross is first seen as 4 6-hour periods. They are seen as Burdens in Isaiah. Sunset to Midnight is the Burden of Babylon, Or Jesus gathers all in the Body of Christ as He pours out His spirit upon all flesh (Himself)

So there is no innocent babies, No innocent because they have not the ability to reason. All one, all guilty because of sin “We have all TOGETHER becomes as an unclean thing.” So Jesus taking sin, or us into the Body. Becomes BABYLON has fallen. Jesus took sin as the first 6-hours was ending.

The Second 6-hours is Midnight to sunrise, The Burden of Moab. Moab is brought to silence (Jesus lead as a sheep SILENT before the Shearers) Jesus took sin, No wedding Garment, He was SPEECHLESS, Midnight to sunrise is OUTER DARKNESS. They are bringing the Lamb of God to be offered as a Sacrifice:

(ISAIAH 15:1) The burden of Moab. Because in the night Ar of Moab
is laid waste, and brought to silence; because in the night Kir of
Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence; (KJV)

(ISAIAH 16:1) Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela
to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion. (KJV)

During this Second 6-hours, Jesus and all of the people within the Body of Christ is SPIRITUALLY DEAD. This second 6-hours is also seen as the Second Day. The Second physical day is a FUTURE SIMILITUDE for this 6-hours when God’s words are made truth. Likened to Jesus in Hell. The Second seal is the RED HORSE. Here is Christopher’s RED LIGHT.

I need to pick up some speed, this gets quite involved. The fourth 6-hours is the Burden of Egypt. That is noon to sunset as Jesus dies on the cross. Converted as Children in Jeremiah 4:22, Seen returning to the days of His youth in Job 33:25. Jesus is Jacob during this time, Wrestles with a man, or has to allow Himself to die. Wrestles with self preservation. He does allow Himself to die.

Then Esau comes, Esau is Edom. Edon seen as a desolate wilderness or the time Jesus is dead. God hated Esau or the time Jesus is dead, Over Edom He cast out His shoe because we are on Holy Ground, Jesus just took away sin.

WHEN Israel was a Child (Jacob got the name as an ADULT, But now the day of the cross, He is converted as a child, So THEN I loved Him and called My SON out of Egypt.

(HOSEA 11:1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called
my son out of Egypt. (KJV)

From the Fourth 6-hour period as Jesus died on the cross, Got takes Jesus back to being spiritually dead in the second 6-hour period or seeing Jesus in Hell.

Because of sin, “The Wicked is turned into hell” or seeing all dead in Christ. The Second picture is seen as a DESERT. That is Christopher’s desert. The day seen as 7 time periods, the House built the day of the cross is named the Wilderness. The day seen as 7 TREES.

(ISAIAH 41:19) I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the
shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the
desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together: (KJV)

The Second picture as 2 12-hour periods seen as a Desert, as a pit where in is no water. The third picture as 1 24-hour periods seeing Jesus come as the Rain, so there are streams in the Desert, and the Desert blossoms as the ROSE.

Those who died in Egypt rose with Jesus, those who died in Jerusalem rose with Jesus, those who died in SHARON rose with Jesus, Jesus is the ROSE OF SHARON.

(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body
shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy
dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

When Jesus ROSE on the third day (Fulfilled during the third 6-hour period, “With His stripes we are healed, So no longer Spiritually dead, But now spiritually alive, or as RESURRECTED. Then the third physical day, a future similitude of what has been fulfilled as Truth, They are resurrected physically, Hell ceased to exist on the third day.

When the people left Egypt, God took them:

(EXODUS 13:17) And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people
go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the
Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest
peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return
to Egypt: (KJV)
(EXODUS 13:18) But God led the people about, through the way of the
wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went up
harnessed out of the land of Egypt. (KJV)

The LAND of the Philistines WAS NEAR, it is the Third Burden in Isaiah. Or sunrise to noon. But went to the Second 6-hours, the RED HORSE. Or SEAL.

Those out of hell are seen as arrows sent forth, and they are seen as speaking to the enemies in the gate, They have a job, they are at Heaven’s gate. Heaven likened to brass, the earth likened to Iron, the METAL of the Cruifix. The day is as a sea like unto a Crystal. It is Ezekiel’s terrible Crystal, a PRISM, for the Colour is as the colour above the heads of the Creature, which is a RAINBOW, or the light of SEVEN DAYS.

The Street like Gold, Like unto Crystal, the day as 3 pictures as Gold, the day as 7 time periods as silver tried in the fire seven times. Jesus as the Street seen in all three pictures, 1=to those alive, 2=to those dead, 3=to get us all to Heaven.

(EZEKIEL 1:22) And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of
the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal,
stretched forth over their heads above. (KJV)

The day of the cross is a day taken out of time, it is the Birth of the Body of Christ seen in Psalms 2:6/7 given the heathen in 2:8. This day perishes or is taken out of time, it is made as DARKNESS (What I show you in Darkness, Speak ye in the Light) the name of the day or space is FOREVER.

God established David’s Son as His Son, He establishes His Kingdom FOR EVER or the day of the cross as seen in 2-Samuel 7:11/14. This is as a house built as 7 time periods or pillars.

(PROVERBS 9:1) Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her
seven pillars: (KJV)

THIS is HIS name FOR EVER or the day of the cross with 4 names for each of the 4 6-hour periods.

1=Sunset to Midnight, “Lord God of your Fathers” or Jesus is made Lord God by God the Father. It should be “Lord God of your Father’s”

2=Midnight to sunrise, The God of Abraham. This is the RED LIGHT, this is the HORROR of Great Darkness Abraham saw. This is Jesus having to go into hell, this is Outer Darkness as Jesus is separated from God by taking sins or all us into the Body of Christ before being healed by His stripes, that is why the land of the Philistines was skipped, so it went to Jesus as in Hell.

3=Sunrise to noon, The God of Isaac.

4=Noon to Sunset, the time Jesus died on the cross, Fourth seal is the pale Horse, Death followed by hell as Jesus dies and descends into hell. Or the RED LIGHT Christopher saw entering the Crucifix. Jesus is heading into hell, and the Terror of the Horror of great darkness.

(GENESIS 15:12) And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell
upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. (KJV)

(GENESIS 15:16) But in the fourth generation they shall come hither
again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. (KJV)

The day as 7 generations, goes to the fourth then comes HITHER again: As the picture has to be seen 3 times to be fulfilled.

(GENESIS 15:17) And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down,
and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that
passed between those pieces. (KJV)

The Smoking furnace is looking into hell and Jesus is going there and it terrifies Him.

(REVELATION 1:15) And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they
burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. (KJV)

(REVELATION 9:2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose
a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the
sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. (KJV)

Now those in hell are by Heaven’s gate showing what the love of God and His mercy is really like. I was planning on speaking to them to hear their witness, they speak to the enemies coming to heaven. Those who do not know God. Christopher just got them a retirement plan. For their message will be known on earth. They do not all need to be there.

Christopher saw Millions and Millions of Altars of Sufferings. God said it was thousands of Millions. For those out of hell seen as speaking to the enemies in the gate are as Rachael’s Children:

(GENESIS 24:60) And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou
art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and
let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them. (KJV)

In order to show the Altars of sufferings I will need to use modern day people so it can be related to. Jesus used sowing to relate to farmers, Heaven to a net of fish, to relate to fishermen. As a man seeking goodly pearls, to relate to Merchants, etc

As Jesus took the sin of the world, He also took the sin of those in hell. So with that sin as Belonging to Himself, or all those within Him. Each with there own things which they did on earth. Eating away, tearing them apart. Unable to get rid of it.

BUT Christopher saw not only the Suffering. But also as being responsible for that suffering being looked at, that is the Terrible part.

Can you imagine the Cruelty of using an Iron Maiden on another? A human shaped steel box, with spikes inside. Where the person is laid, and the covers slowly closed as the spikes go into the eyes and face, and just a bit. Till the Screams slow down, then press down a little more. Saddam had one. He drilled the eyes out, Stuffed them with paper. But now look at all those who had died and see what they were seeing as they had done.

Thousands of Millions of altars of Guilt. With the suffering they caused in life. An endless array of pictures going before them, This pain they caused, that pain they caused, this cruelty poured out. This act of terrorism, and seeing those who were being hurt very very clearly as they suffered. Seeing the Mothers tormented, the Children, the infants. Just out of their own hatred, Just hurt others and hurt them as much as you can, But now, it all comes to them, and they know the clarity of it. And it will not go away.

All this is within One Body. All screaming to make it go away. But it has not gone away. And it will never really go away. God said they would not be altogether unpunished, We will always remember how we were on earth.

So when Jesus took them all out. Gave them employment at Heaven’s gate to tell others who do not know God, But who do have their sins and now seen as their torments forgiven. It comes to pass that those who were forgiven more, Loveth more. And that was God’s intent, not to end life, But to correct it, as all are His children, and separation from God would be harder for God to taken then for them.

Clearly seeing this on earth means they can go in and enjoy the love of God they already know. A few at a time will be needed as there will always be a few holdouts so we do not put our Bibles away.

Christopher, You have thousands of Millions who will thank you personally. As I now thank you for opening a door which needed to be enlightened. Jesus seen in Vision could not come to Daniel for 21 days, Sound like 21 year? Daniel is dead and in the grave when the vision takes place for all visions are for the day of the cross. The day seen as 7 days. God doubles twice to establish His words so each of the seven days are also made as a week.

God uses those who fight against Him, then comes when they see they have Fallen in love with the God they offend. They come and they are not about to leave. No matter how God feels, they will keep coming back even if He throws them away a million times.

I am assuming you were Born Again about 6-months before your 21st anniversary of your birth. Rough road I know when instead of just believein gin God, You fall in Love with Him. He says to “Follow Me” But we have no idea where He is taking us. It is like joining God, He takes us the first day to the Front lines, tells all the others to go Home, “Your replacement is here.”

You are not sick, You have seen visions which God PREPARED for YOU. Because of Your love for God.

(ISAIAH 64:4) For since the beginning of the world men have not
heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God,
beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him. (KJV)

But his part you have been given, and you have shared,

(1CORINTHIANS 2:9) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear
heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which
God hath prepared for them that love him. (KJV)

This could never have been guessed at. What all those in Christ felt that were in hell. For the worst suffering is not what happens to us, But the sufferings we have done to others, and can never undo.

(LUKE 7:41) There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the
one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. (KJV)
(LUKE 7:42) And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave
them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? (KJV)
(LUKE 7:43) Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he
forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. (KJV)

I will end this now and get back to the other responses on the thread. Me? Long posts? Naw

Ken

Everyone was saved by grace (small "g") and Satan (capital "S"). This is way out there even for you ken. I am glad I don't believe in your myths. God as in above or Satan as in below?An Angel on this thread? Is it Freespryrt? Light within? Hey LBD you are a light within! A baby guilty of sin. This is one reason I do not believe.
My "Two Tailed Zandore" opinion!

Ken, Ken, Ken... The things you assume... It just makes me sad to hear how arrogant you sound sometimes...

How did I know you were going to say this? Why would the entire bible be about 1 thing? Why would God not fill it full of scriptures about allot of things?

What’s the point your trying to make here?

Your concerned with one person? Why not concern yourself with everyone? Did Jesus not say to not pick favorites?

Hmm... Christopher is a person, same as you and me, no doubt about it... Its possible he has visions, but it would also be foolish of him not to question them... God gave us our brains for a reason...



Maybe Christopher's RED LIGHT is just that...

I really think you make all of this way to complicated... A lot more then it should be... I don't think God wanted his word to be confusing, or the message of his word to be hard to understand...

I just would like to know what makes you such a good dream interpreter? The way you speak just sounds so arrogant, like you are without flaw...

Believe me, I know how important this day is... But like I said, this is all you see in the bible... I think God has allot more put into the bible...

I am sick of debating this issue with you... Mostly because you are thick headed, and you probably don't even listen to anyone else ever... Yes I am thick headed too, as far as changing what I believe, but I listen to others and show them the proper respect...

Glory to God in the highest... For we are to give him glory alone...
I am sorry Christopher, I really don't understand why Ken is all lovey dovey with you, but Jesus is the one people will be thanking in heaven...

Yes God uses everyone, correct there... But I have one little problem with something you said...

"No matter how God feels, they will keep coming back even if He throws them away a million times"

God is the one who keeps coming back no matter how many times we push him away... God does not throw us away...

Assumptions are not always good to make Ken...
And why just say 6 months before his 21st birthday? Hmmm..

Christopher I am not trying to say you didn't have a vision... But really, don't just take Kens word for it...

Good to know you have at least some of a sense of humor...


all that is just my humble opinion...

LBD

Twisted as it is?

It really is getting to me the way you express your emotions to appeal as insult.

Well sorry... There was no insult intended, just my opinion...

But honestly, you probably don't know the half or it... So I dont understand where you base your opinion about it on...

Again sorry if it made you mad, wasnt ment to be an insult... And the comment wasn't directed at you so... Chill..

just my humble opinion...

LBD

LBD....you pretty much summed up what I was gonna say. Good job! LOL

Zandore....Don't think that babies aren't innocent, as some people here say....If they die before being able to *choose* right from wrong, then they obviously haven't *done* wrong -- therefore, they haven't sinned. And Jesus told people over and over....no sin = no punishment = no hell.

Oh, and yeah, I agree with LOG. As it says in Matthew 7,"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." Just because someone SAYS they are doing the "will of God", doesn't mean they actually are, and they may deceive others in the process (not saying you are, Ken, just making a point). In the end, only God knows who really are His children -- although there are obvious pointers that would make one question another's salvation (eg. living in many serious sins with NO remorse whatsoever). Still, that doesn't mean one can judge another's hold on eternity...only try to lovingly point them in the *right* direction.

Anyway....Jesus' only commands to us were to Love God with all your heart and mind, to Love one another as He loves us, and to Spread the Gospel to every creature (Which, BTW, hell only plays a miniscule part in compared to everything else). There might be a few lesser "instructions" for us, but they follow one of the above commands, anyway, so...

If this sounds a little messed up, I'm sorry. *frowns* So little time, so little sleep...LOL

~Scarlet~

Hahahahaha question mark
LBD this thread has been just kicking on the same ball for way too long. And none of what anyone is saying is getting through. Take SilverRainQueen for example, she has explained that there is no qualifying proof that God is an entity. The only proof that BARELY even stands on one toe is of Christian's belief that God does things for them. I am sick and tired of some people piling up their uncertainty to build such thing as 'faith' that there is a God. Sooner or later science will explain everything.

Oh no, no, no, no. I wasn't steaming like a train running on the rails all day, I was pointing out your tendency to feel sad quite a lot.

Well I'm emotional... lol

LBD

Zandore.

God does not show different truths which contradict. He does not given each parson a different set of truths. They are not custom made to fit each person.

My Version as I see by the Scriptures, Not my opinion without some Scriptural reference.

Zandore, Why should I ask others? Did Jesus say to speak in the light what others will agree with? I don’t think so.

How can the MODS “Trust” what “WE” say concerning yourself and the others, Excluding myself. Some of you say there is a God, some say there is not a God, How can contradictions be TRUSTED?

Is the Doctrine I speak of what a church elder would accept? Not when it says they do not know God.

The Reality check is ongoing, and millions of Buddhists say we are wrong , So what? Numbers are meaningless, It is not Truth by popular opinion.

When Jesus was sealed from seeing some things was about 2,000 years ago. He has been a Busy person since then. He might well be the one showing me now. For it is what “HE Shows us in Darkness that we are to speak in the Light.” this is being shown in 2005 now.


Lover of God, Did not God say He would have Mercy on whom He would have Mercy? I don’t see that as a Covenant, I do see “Whosoever believeth in Me shall be saved.” as a Covenant, and God voided Christ’s covenant in Psalms 89:39, So all are saved by grace, So none can boast.

Grace is a Gift, Jesus comes as the RAIN, and WE KNOW, we can not get WET unless we ask for it???? Maybe that is why God POURED out His spirit (Jesus) upon all flesh, ALL FLESH.

“Leave Zandore alone.” ?? Why does Zandore keep posting and addressing things I say? And this is the Same Zandore who was telling people to ignore me? But I guess Zandore thought it was a bad idea seeing he has not done it himself.

Fire that MUST be Spread? And you are having a problem with my spreading it?

Judas delivered God’s Son into Captivity? And just WHOSE Idea was that? I think you will find that was part of PLAN “A”, also known as “Almighty’s plan”

(ACTS 2:23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and
foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have
crucified and slain: (KJV)

Lover of God, I have been there and done that, and I am still there and still doing it. I know God is loving, and I know everyone is saved by grace. And that NOT of themselves, But having to BELIEVE is of themselves, is it not?


Zandore, I was told to leave you ALONE. But seeing you are back, Explain this to me, from your point of view. How can I be guilty of BLASPHEME as Lover of God says if “There is no God.” as you say??? Can I blaspheme a clump of grass?


Tam: God does not need to get back to you, He never left you. Nor will He every forsake you.


Zandore.

Not using a Capital for the Word Grace which refers to what God gives, a God you do not believe in, So the GRACE of God then would have no meaning for you as it can not exist either in your mind, And Satan is a name, so the Capital is common.

Satan is a name for the word of God, So apply it accordantly.

Do you ever really read what is being said? No innocent babies because there are no individuals. All one body. All mankind together.

The law in Deuteronomy 24:16 showed sin did not pass down to babies. The concept of Original sin is not Scriptural truth. And it also showed all sin had to BELONG to Jesus as if He had committed it all when He was put to death.

(DEUTERONOMY 24:16) The fathers shall not be put to death for the
children, neither shall the children be put to death for the
fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (KJV)


Lightbeyondthedark.

The Bible from Genesis to Revelation looks at the day of the cross, Every vision, every dream, every similitude, every prophecy, When all this is seen, God as our loving Father is seen, sin ended as accountable unto man is seen. Christ loving us and taking our punishment is seen, Is that not enough?

Unless you bring everyone into the love of God, you can not see God clearly, and the windows of heaven will always be closed to you. Get all the tithes into the storehouse, and prove God.

My concern was with Christopher, If you have 5 babies, and one is very sick, Which one will be your concern? Main concern? And Christopher is not sick, But it seems so to others and Christopher has not seen what is really going on yet.

Christopher has questioned it over and over, But you need the right answer as a possibility before you can chose the correct one.

Maybe Christopher’s red light is the Second 6-hour period and maybe the Light beyond the dark has not been reached as the person is still in the Dark, Want a Candle? Christopher is one.

(MATTHEW 5:15) Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a
bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are
in the house. (KJV)

Key part: “That are in the house.”

God might not have wanted His words to be confusing, But He inspired over 1700 CHAPTERS of Scripture, and that is a lot of Verses, He speaks in Similitudes, and He speaks through Jesus in Parables, and what is simple about this? Other then He loves us, and errors of Doctrine are as covered by grace as anything else. That is “Grace” in case Zandore is watching.

I am not a dream interpreter.

(GENESIS 40:8) And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and
there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not
interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you. (KJV)

What has my telling what I see as Truth when it is part of a concept I am talking about got to do with you sick of debating it, I am not telling it to get you to debate it, I do not think you are the only one on the thread. Or viewing this thread.

Light, I think I said “IF” God throws us away a million times. This does not say God does it, it refers to how a person feels coming, not knowing how God will react, But their love will not let them stay away.

Ken

What? God wouldnt throw/push neone away! God hates sin, not the sinner. He would like to see even the most evil come to repentence. He is, after all, 'not willing that any should perish'.

Reading through sum of those longer posts, I was like 'what? God sounds like a bloody tyrant trying to squeeze us all into hell or otherwise just sit on his throne and make us miserable' lol

W/e happened to Him being a God of love and mercy??

(Btw, nice to see the quotes comin from the KJV )

Yes, in your opinion... But why is it you and only you see it this way?

Sure that would be enough if thats all it was about...

Oh I see God very clearly... And I can't bring anyone into the love of God, thats why he gave every person the free will to choose him or not to choose him...

Sometimes... But God also speaks clearly...

Ok... But I still do not agree with you that everyone is going to heaven... Why would Jesus have instructed us how to live if it didn't matter?

I know... my point exactly...

You shouldn't have even said "IF" because its not even an "IF" situation...


all that is just my humble opinion...

LBD

Scarlet1

Those who would say “Lord, Lord” is a prophecy of what will come to pass. All prophecies are for the day of the coss as they are all fulfilled. Those are the Disciples. By seeing their response, it can be seen that is who they are, and the one who denies Jesus before men is Peter in the Palace.

(MATTHEW 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall
enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my
Father which is in heaven. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works? (KJV)

The day of the cross is as 4 6-hour periods, seen as the Four corners of the Earth, and as KINGDOMS. Old Heaven is Sunset to Midnight. Old Earth is Midnight to sunrise, Heaven and earth flee from His Face, seen as the face of a man on the third beast with 6-wings which is Sunrise to noon, that is New Earth, New Heaven is Noon to Sunset.

(NEHEMIAH 9:22) Moreover thou gavest them kingdoms and nations, and
didst divide them into corners: so they possessed the land of Sihon, and the land of the king of Heshbon, and the land of Og king of Bashan. (KJV)

The day as 3 pictures, the first as 4 6-hour periods or the Kingdoms or corners, the second as 2 12-hour periods the third as 1 24-hour period or as Three different lands.

It is kind of Cute how people can see babies as being sinful or having a sin nature, Remember Jesus telling a full grown woman caught in Adultery. “Neither do I condemn you.”? I believe the Go and sin no more had to do with taking a piece of meat out of some hungry dogs mouths, which if they caught her again, there would be no stopping them. Plus Jesus wanted her to do right, But would not have condemned her then either, 7 times 70.

And He would condemn a child? What kind of Jesus and God are some of you looking at?

God said “All souls are mine, The Soul that sinneth, He shall die,” and He did die on a cross at Golgotha with the sin of the world, that is future sins, as past and present sins then ended with His stripes we are healed.

I have noticed that the babies mothers sin a lot (but still covered by grace) by not letting others hold them for awhile. Remember Tuesdays is “Pass the Baby day.” And Wednesdays, and Thursdays, Well, I guess you get the picture.

Ken

Lightbeyondthedark.

What makes you think I am the only one who sees the day of the cross as being the main thing God shows? Didn’t God tell you He sees it that was also? Who do you think told me?

I was not referring to bringing everyone into the love of God by having them Choose. But by you see His love is covering them all, Believer and non-believe, Good and wicked, all covered by the Love of God. Like Job said:

(JOB 12:16) With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the
deceiver are his. (KJV)

God spoke through Jesus very plainly, But did you believe it?

(JOHN 16:25) These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but
the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs,
but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. (KJV)

(JOHN 16:28) I came forth from the Father, and am come into the
world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. (KJV)
(JOHN 16:29) His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou
plainly, and speakest no proverb. (KJV)

How plain did you want? The Disciples picked up on it as soon as He said “AGAIN I leave the World, and go unto the Father.” Like that little child of David you do not want to debate left the world in 1004 bc, and returned to be laid in a manger in Bethlehem. The FIRST Begotten of the Dead. And as Jesus said to Martha, BEFORE going to the Cross, “I am the Resurrection.” That also is Speaking plainly.

Jesus instructed us how to live because it DOES MATTER, It matters to ourselves, and everyone around us. Sin is already covered by grace, But God does not want us to hurt others, or hurt ourselves by later having to remember how terrible we have been. But He would like us to do it freely, Not to get rewards or to avoid punishment, But out of love for God and others.

YOUR POINT? God showed Joseph what the dream meant, Joseph did not interpret it, He just spoke what God was showing. God showed me what Christopher was seeing. So I spoke it.

It is an IF situation when it is what you are feeling, Not knowing if God will throw you away. Remember the Scriptures appear to show a selective God. And the key word is APPEAR.

Ken