The Bible starts off with a contradiction. Adam and Eve are supposed to be the first humans right?
Genesis 1:28 (KJV)
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Replenish the Earth? Earth was populated before? WOW!
Talk about being self centered, egotistical! Thats right you said that "you can not bring your self down to mans level".Yes and?Thats just it..."WE DON'T TRUST YOUR CONTRADICTIONS". Jesus was Satan did you say?Apparently they did not accept. How true!Even though Lover Of God (LOG) is a Christian he resents the way you force your version of the bible on others just as I and many others do. Some of the things you say sounds like it is more of a joke than anything. Arsonist? Easy as pie! First you take LOGs belief then you take my belief then stir until well mixed. This is an important you must make sure they are well mixed before going to the last step!Then you reach in and pull out a twisted version of reality and call it truth. Now wasn't that easy? Oh yes the clump of grass....Mow it or smoke it I don't care. I may not belive in God but I still respect others beliefs. So God is Satan now?
PS.....This is coming from one who said he wanted to be like God.

Actually, the definition of "replenish" doesn't necessarily require for there to be something there beforehand.

From Dictionary.com:

Replenish:

1. To fill or make complete again; add a new stock or supply to.
2. To inspire or nourish.

So it can mean either thing. So you have to determine from the context what it means. It's like, how do we determine what "day" means in Genesis, when the Hebrew word "yom" can mean different things? Because in Hebrew, if it has clarifiers like "evening" and "morning" around the context of the word, then it means a literal 24-hour day.

We use context to determine what its meaning is. Also, it could mean that the earth was first "plenished" by animals, and now God is saying to "replenish" it with human beings.

Lastly, I really don't think it's worth it to argue with Ken1Burton. He's not taking the Bible literally, saying that all are going to heaven, etc. The Bible clearly states that not all are going to heaven and that the only way to heaven is by acceptance of Christ. It clearly defines Christ and Satan as two separate beings. Ken's just not taking the Bible literally and he's putting his own spin on it.

This is why I have to "argue" with him...

juts my humble opinion...

LBD

you and your bible quotes are driving me insane

OK lets take number 2-Inspire or nourish. Inspire who? Nourish who or what?
Now for 1. To fill or make complete again; add a new stock or supply to.
God had just made Adam and Eve right? To fill or make complete again, Or better yet Add new stock to, or new supply to. To me it still sounds like theu was not the first here according to the Bible.

I personally welcome you.

I have never seen the word of God like this... It does not sound right, or feel right... There could be some that think the same way as you...

No God didn't tell me this also... He told me not to trust in what you say... He told me to keep my trust in what I know to be truth...

Yes God gave us all free will only to not let us have a choice... Makes sense...

Your the one who doesn't seem to believe it... My eyes have been open for a long time, maybe you should take off your shades and see the light...

How does it matter if we all go to heaven? Your argument makes no sense...

What does it matter? What does anything matter then? We can do whatever we want... Because we are all going to heaven anyways... So what if I hurt someone... Still your argument makes no sense to me...

I don't know about that... Maybe you thought God showed you something, maybe he really did... Or maybe he didn't show you anything, and you showed yourself something false...

No its not a "if" situation... Because whether or not people accept him God will not abandon them, all they have to do is call out to him... Bottom line...

The Lord is close to all who call on him, yes, to all who call on Him sincerely.
--Psalm 145:18


all thats just my humble opinion

LBD

Zandore.

Right? NO, Not a chance. Adam and Eve were similitudes, the Creation story was looking at the day of the cross. Old Heaven and Old Earth fled from His face, or the first two 6-hour periods ended as the third 6-hour period seen as the third beast with 6-wings with the Face of a man shows up. NOW we need to REPLENISH the Earth.

Because God poured out His Spirit (Jesus) upon all flesh, or all mankind is in the Body of Christ. Then the 144 with Judas, which are the Angels given charge over Jesus, take Jesus (we are all in the Body) from the one end of Heaven to the Other, and the one end of the earth to the other. Or taken from the Old Earth which ended at Sunrise, to the New earth which starts as Sunrise, so the Earth just Got REPLENISHED.

So God and Jesus (Let US) Create man in OUR Image, and Jesus is God’s Image which mankind is created in.

When you were referring to “WE” are trusted by the MODS, You were referring to yourself and the others EXCLUDING me. For you were not saying the MODS trusted me, and that is what I showed, and asked how they could trust the “WE” you used seeing you tell different stories, Some that God is, Some that there is no God.

Zandore? Did you really write that “But I still respect the beliefs of others.” Do you know what respecting another’s beliefs mean?

Your signature on the bottom of your post. Is this part of it? And did you write this?

(And to hell with all that crap in the Bible. A fantasy is much more realistic.)

Do you know what the WORD of God means? Not the person of God. Not the person of Jesus. But His words? That is what I am saying the Bible shows the name applies to.

Satan desires to sift Peter, and Here is God’s words:

(AMOS 9:9) For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of
Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet
shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. (KJV)

Sithlard.

You take the Bible literally when all the stars fall from heaven.


Ken

You don't have any right to say this to zandore... He knows how to respect when it is given to him... You have never shown me or him any respect, in fact you said you didn't even care about it anyways...

Yes, maybe... Angels are known as stars also...

just my humble opinion...

LBD

Adam and Eve never existed? Remember this quote? "Numbers are Meaningless? As you see I was talking to you about "If you do not trust what we say to ask the Mods". As you can see there was nothing about you not being trusted in that post. Even then it was about how hard it is to understand you. Now if you were to read other peoples post with more care you would know us better since we keep it short and simple.
I will address my signature for you.

For definition #1, how is it that my previous post didn't answer your question? Animals were here first. They were the first that "plenished" the earth. Then came man. Our job was to "replenish" the earth. This can mean "to fill or make complete again," and also to "add a new stock or supply to."

As for definition #2, it would mean nourish the earth. That's what it means by being fruitful. It's nourishing, because it gives the earth purpose, we take care of it, and perhaps simply filling the earth with the likeness of God provides nourishment for it since we were created in His image. The animals are nourished because we were meant to take care of them and have dominion over them.

Done I addressed my signature.
Better?

SATAN, OR LUCIFER, wants to sift us all. im sorry dude, but like i said before, knowing and believing are two different things, and its obvious that you know some things that are TOTALLY out of context. but, since you wont listen to anybody, and continue to force your beliefs on others than here.

jesus said this:
"Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

the bible is the word of God, why wouldnt you take it literally? especially in these times when the prophecy of end times is being fulfilled as the days roll by?

and ken, NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT THE DAY OF THE CROSS!!!

That is Matthew 10:14

zandore loves that verse...
lol

LBD

Ha Ha... zandore, cheer up... its ok to like something about the bible... lol

LBD

Zandore.

I don’t intend on changing your beliefs, I have no reason at all to even try. Or did you forget? I see you as a Believer in God, Just one who is fighting God so you will not admit it, or take it to heart. I do not believe those who fight God are not believers, For we do not waste time fighting that which we do not believe to be real or a threat in any way.

What I will try to do is to look at yourself. And Ask yourself why my spelling “grace” with a small “G” would bother a non-believer? Of using a capital “S” in Satan which is a proper noun. Also bothering a non-believer. So then the main Question is, Does Zandore believe? And I see that as a yes.

God said all would know Him, He did not say all would admit to knowing Him. You do seem to spend a lot of time talking about the Bible, and this God you say does not exist. I don’t wonder why. I see why.

Lover of God.

The prophecy of end times is being fulfilled? NOW? Drawing near?

Cute, But I think you missed it by about 1976 years, Give or take a day. In end times He who is on the housetop is not to come down, and Jesus on the cross sits as a sparrow on the Housetop, and the Priests are asking Him to come down, that they might see and believe.

In end times He which is in the field is not to return to take up His clothes. What does Jesus have on in the Sepulcher? Which is in a garden. Which many would call a field. He has to wait till the third day, He has the power to take up His life, But He has to WAIT on the Lord in hell till the third day to fulfill Zechariah 9:11.

In the end times, the Angels gather all things which offend. Guess who has the Sin of the World, Guess who the ones with Judas come looking for in the Garden of Gethsemane? From one end of heaven to the other, from one end of the earth to the other.

Everything is looking at the day of the cross in the Scriptures, the similitudes, the dreams, the parables. One day when God’s words would be seen as three pictures or doubled twice to ESTABLISH His words as Truth. Seen as lies in 1-Kings 22:21/24 till fulfilled.


Lightbeyondthedark.

Loving a verse is nothing, For it referred to those who would not receive the Disciples in Jesus’ name, and Zandore want to play non-believer. But is quoting Bible verse which he has listed as crap in his signature? Isn’t there something wrong with this whole picture?

But Pride bindeth like a chain. You get yourself committed to fighting against something, and you can not stop. Pride keeps you building defenses, even after God took all the walls down like at Jericho.

Light? Why would you tell Zandore to cheer up? Your belief is he is headed for hell unless He turns and accepts Jesus. Or is that a “Be happy now, For you will not ever be happy again.”

Cheer up, You’ve still got 30 feet till you get to the cliff? And you can be happy falling, it is that sudden stop that might hurt.

Don’t worry Zandore, Jesus is our bungy cord. Even to those who hate Him. Even to those who deny Him. For had Jesus been asked if He knew Zandore while He was hanging on a cross at Golgotha, His answer would have been “Why, Do you think I am going through this?”

Ken

Ken,
You are just so utterly clueless...
*sigh*

LBD

Lightbeyondthedark.

Thank you very much. I do not mind being called "Clueless" for you need clues while you still are seeking the answer to a question. And when you have the correct answer. The clues just formed truth.

Would you like some clues? After all, You do not want to be CLUELESS do you?

How about the Lord Hissing in Isaiah 7:18?
Holy Spirit coming down as CLOVEN TONGUES of fire at pentecost?
Jesus likening Himself as a Serpent on a Pole in John 3:14?
How about God speaking to Moses? about who makes the Blind and the Dumb Have not I the Lord?
With clues like that. Matthew 12:22's blind and dumb man possessed with a Devil ought to get easier to SOLVE the Mystery.

Ken

I think your the one missing it Ken...

I have said it before and I'll say again... "YOU THINK"

Please dont lecture me... I was joking around with zandore... You do know what a joke is right? Laughter? Funny things?

What are you talking about? Seriously... This is why people have a hard time understanding you, because you don't make sense half the time... MY only beef with you is your total lack of respect... Your decision to believe what you want...

Come on Ken... Do you really have to be so petty?

This is how you are clueless Ken... You just dont get it... Saying something like this to him will only push him away more, oh but I forgot you dont care... Doesn't really seem like you care about much...

LBD

But you did try before remember? You said that you thought I could be a convert. If you can read: I am not fighting God. Why should I fight something I do not believe in? You are only fooling yourself if you think otherwise.Like you said "Do not believe. Out of respect for what it stands for friends both here on this forum and off line. Which it sounds like you have no concept of. DELUSIONAL! Call the guys in the white coats.I am not "Playing non-believer" I am a "NON-BELIEVER". As much as it enrages you OH WELL get over it.No there is nothing wrong with the picture. That line in my signature is directed only at you and the "Crap" you are trying to pass of as Scripture, Not at what LBD or LOG or most other Decent Religious folks here at this form or off line.
ken In my belief (please quote me on this) "My Hell is only what I make it to be".
Yes he is

When you mention Respect, there is a slight problem. No one respects everyone’s beliefs. For that would mean we have to Respect Saddam Hussan’s belief that as the head of Iraq, He had the perfect right to kill anyone he wanted, and to do it by inflicting as much torture as he desire to so they would suffer beyond belief.

You would have to respect Adolf Hitler’s belief in he thought what is ok to do. Along with millions of others whose Beliefs are Cruel to say the very least.

The wording should be “being respectful.” in the way you act to others. Treating them with Kindness. Jesus many times told someone they were wrong, and showed them the correct concept. But here is where the problems come in. Do they look at what is being said, or do they take it personal?

(PROVERBS 9:8) Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a
wise man, and he will love thee. (KJV)

I have talked to many people online, Some young adults. It is not unusual to have them ask about Suicide. Saying they want to kill themselves. Should we try to push our beliefs upon them? Should we try to change their beliefs?

You can stick to not trying to change anyone else’s belief. But I will tell them about those who tried and did not get it quite right. Of one in the Nursing Home, Because he was not quite dead before his dad found him hanging and cut him down.

Still a young man, But with a good mind, but a messed up body. His arms and legs do not work. So he lies in bed. But he can think of how he got there. A friend of mine tried it with pills. He also was found before he died. He told me “Boy, pumping out your stomach sure hurts.” I told him “They made sure it would.” His reply “You mean so that I would not try it again.” I told him. “Exactly.”

Most people mess up the attempt, then they have more pressure as no one around them trusts them. Parents or spouses. Watch them like a hawk. Their freedoms are almost eliminated, many are locked up. But we should not try to change their beliefs?

The Beliefs themselves needs to be something to respect. And the person needs to be following that belief. Mother Teresa believed in helping others, Here life showed it, and she deserved, and earned respect.

But if you just want to grab a “MAKE”belief to be different. Put on your little vampire cape. Paint your lips black. And tell everyone you do not come out during the daylight. Then I do not see that as a real belief, Not to themselves either. Without being cruel. I will not take it serious either. I may well joke about it. But I will also tell them in some countries in this world, You will be put to death for that.

Respect should be seen as deserving. Respecting beliefs should be real beliefs which show a commitment by the believer. Being respectful should be a way of life. And that not only to a person’s honest beliefs, but to all the person holds dear.

Ken

From the sounds of this you almost condone what Hussan did. There is a big difference talking someone out of suicide and pushing what you think is the word of your God on people.Again I say there is a big difference. Also if anyone is going to commit suicide you might be able to delay them but you can not stop them. If some one thinks they have it so bad they should look at some of these kids that are born with birth defects, work with them awhile and then ask themselves "Do I have a bad enough life that I have to end it"? PS If your God is real it was him that supplied the birth defects Not Gothic or a vampire....sorry. Lol
As in "Earned".
Just look at the way I interact with the others on this forum. I show respect and get respect. How many show you?I try to make it a way of life for me, Show, get, and give respect.How else could there be respect?

See now what your doing again is being petty about it and taking it out of the context it should be in...
Everyone should be given proper respect, unless they have lost it, or unless they don't deserve it... Killing innocent people, gee I think that may be grounds for loss of alot of things...

What are you trying to say here?

Anyone has the right to think whatever they want, no matter how sick and twisted it is... The problem comes from when their beliefs begin to actually affect other peoples lives... Especially in such a way where people end up dead...

I have tried to be kind to you many times Ken, but kind of spit it back in my face... You don't even acknowledge it... But thats just fine...
Maybe you should make sure your "being respectful"...

What would it matter to you if someone committed suicide? Everyone goes to heaven anyway...
Its not so much a religious thing when you try to talk someone out of suicide, its more of a humanly thing to do...

Yes you are right...
Everyone should get respect... As long as they give it back... If they lose it, well then they have to earn it back...
Thats why its better to just not lose it to begin with...

Yeah but see the thing is, we are in a free nation... If someone wants to put on a cape and act like a vampire, they deserve the same amount of respect for it no matter what.
And as far as joking about it goes... If they take it seriously, I will... If they don't, I wont....

Start leading by example then...



LBD

Zandore.

I mentioned before that I perceived you were young by the way you respond. After that you said you had your children Baptized and five other children Baptized. I am not sure you are old enough to have children. Maybe not even old enough to be on this board.

Your “From the sounds of this you almost condone what Hussan did.” statement is a bit out of context, isn’t it? Do you have any idea why I wrote his beliefs? Or what seems to be his believes from the actions he took? And it sounds TO YOU like I condoned him??

So what is going on here Zandore? You want to argue, and grab everything you think you see and run with it? I assume you are capable of normal reasoning. But ever now and then, You seem to drift off a bit. Maybe a bit too quick to answer.

I understand tired, I understand being distracted as we are online. I understand people who have a great deal on their minds so that it is hard to concentrate. I understand a few more things which tend to have a person less then alert to what is going on around them.

People tend to evaluate others by the answers they give. When a lot of those answers do not seem thought out, then questions arise. Would you look a little closer at what is being said? And to whom it is being referred to? It might this a bit easier for everyone to follow.

I do not condone the deliberate hurting of others. And that does not just have to be in the physical. A lack of caring is just as deliberate. And the way of life that people like Saddam took, shows their beliefs. And I was saying that we do not RESPECT everyone’s belief for many people believe in being Cruel to others.

That respect is something that is earned by the way a person lives, Being respectful is showing kindness in the way you deal with others. Respecting another’s belief is also based on if the belief is real, or a person is just making up a belief to get attention or aggravate others. Usually their parents.

You keep referring to me pushing the Word of God on people. Does God’s word bother you? Or does it bother you that I am a believer? I had talked to one friend of mine about Jesus, There was woman there about 20 a few times, She was like you, did not want to hear about Jesus. Then I did not see her for about two years.

Later when I saw her she told me “When I first met you, I hated you.” I told her “I know that, But I did not know the reason why.” She told me “Because you had Jesus and I did not.” And that was just what I was trying to correct.

Christians are often hated for this reason, It comes with the territory. People fighting God, People who just don’t want to hear it. But I look at that differently. I do not believe a person fighting God does not believe in Him, I just think they can not overcome and tell God they love Him, Mostly because they feel He will reject them.

Many say they are not fighting God, But their actions speak also. Their responses speak. Kind of like Body language. I often see their hurt, sometimes hurt the do not even know they are feeling. And do not want to look at or consider.

It is one thing to feel rejected by someone, But to be rejected by a God who you really believe in? That is quite a different matter. To really believe it is Jesus or hell? And the hidden turmoil within. If I see an elderly person fall, I will try to help them all I can, If I see a person hurting inside, and that is within myself, they might not see it, I will also try to help.

But that trying is often met with anger. But what is to be expected? When the anger is eating away inside them anyway.

Our God has taught me to hear a tear. A young boy about 12 was given a part in a play in a Unitarian Church service, His part had the words “Forget God, Forget Mary, Up on my broom, and away it does carry.” This verse was spoken about four times in his part. Each time he spoke it I heard him sniffle. I know tears first run down the eye duct, which causes a sniffle. They are not seen outside, But you can hear a tear.

I looked for and found the boy later. I told him “God knows those words were not yours.” He told me, If it was me, those words would not be in there.” So be careful with the words you speak, Someone might be listening a lot more then you realize. To not only the words you speak, But the ones between the lines you leave out, but show they are there.

People can be talked or reasoned out of committing suicide. For the main thing, and I am referring to those who are not suffering physically as much as mentally. It is how they they perceive things, Like you said about looking at others who are really suffering. Seeing themselves as not having it that bad.

Often suicide seems to be a stage people go through. Things are not going too well, Seems life is against them, Everyone is against them. One person they love is against them. God is against them. So an option is looked at. But when that option seems to grow into a desire. Then we better see it before it is tried. The odds are it will not succeed. But they might well be messed up physically or mentally for their earthly life.

Often they are thinking of it to punish others, “Boy will they be sorry.” But you can not threaten yourself to manipulate others. Sooner or later the threat becomes tiring to the one trying to be manipulated and they have to start showing they are serious, so the pills and the last minute phone calls start. I like how they take the pills, Tell the others they took them, and DROP the phone. Like Pills work that way?

That type of situation calls for a much different way of dealing with. When they did not really want to commit suicide, But have to try to keep control over the person they are trying to manipulate. This type is the most disruptive to everyone around, for they no longer care about anyone, even themselves. They just want to hurt others using anything they can.

Not my God but OUR God, Sorry but He belongs to everyone, even to non-believers. Does take responsibility for birth defects:

(EXODUS 4:11) And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's
mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the
blind? have not I the Lord? (KJV)

Remember many birth defects teaches us things, Things like what to stay away from. Things to avoid, and Chemicals and elements which are radioactive which endangers this physical body, and the rest of our earth as well.

Many people looking for the cause of why a person died or a child was born deformed have discovered dangerous substances. Many are lessons for mankind, we are flesh and blood and that is fragile to a point. That little infant being formed in the womb is going through a lot as the cells are being grown, eyes are migrating from the side of the head to the front where they will be. Many call the child growth in the womb a Miracle, they might well be correct.

Many things can effect that, or hinder that, and some people just do not care enough about that unborn baby. Smoking Cigarettes and drinking alcohol all effect the growth. Drugs and diseases that are not given attention cause many defects, Aids is a major. Children born with aids do not have long for this world. Thank God there is another one waiting for them.

God makes the Blind and the Dumb, But we often help more then we would like to admit, And then God gets most of the blame.

Not into Vampire? Some actually go to a Dentist and have Fangs implanted. I have suggested a quicker and cheaper way, go to the zoo and slap a rattlesnake. The Fangs will be implanted immediately.

Respect as “IN EARNED” is exactly what I am saying. I am not talking of being respectful, But respecting that other person. Seeing a person who has lived or is living a decent life, not being cruel, But a earthly life no one would be ashamed of as living.

Respect has value. It is not poured out. It is a just reward for the actions of a person. It is desired to be sought out. It is desired to be gained.

You say you show respect? Not the way I see it. Your statement still shows “to hell with all that crap in the Bible.” That is not respect. That is not Respectful, That is taking a thing dear and in many people’s case Sacred, and slandering it.

Your sentence shows the crap as being in the Bible. It does not show you saying my interpretation of the Bible is crap. The wording of “a need to convince others that you are right is something that comes from religion” is also a bit unkind to those sharing what they hold dear.

I know many do try to get others to agree with them to support their believe as them having made the right choice. But sharing what God has asked us to share is also bringing them into a everlasting relationship with ourselves as well as with God. I would just like it to start while on earth, I know it will be there for us all in heaven.


Lightbeyondthedark.

I am being petty? Then you turn around and say the exact thing I said using different words. I was clarifying the “Respect everyone” usage. You used given the “Proper Respect” and you know the proper respect for some is NO Respect at all. Respect has to be based on some form of Merit. Not a commodity poured out, But a thing of value placed on a deserving person.

What I was showing when speaking of how Saddam lived and believed it that we do not Respect everyone’s belief, the concept we need to respect everyone’s belief is not using the correct wording, For if we did Respect everyone’s belief we have to respect Saddam for how He believed and that is absurd.

The Correct wording is to be Respectful to other’s belief, But even that has a few requirements on the one’s belief. If they are real beliefs, if they are just playing a game. If they show the beliefs they speak of as actions in their lives, in actions of the words they speak.

So I used the Vampire similitude, I am not respectful of those saying that is what they believe as I do not think they even believe it themselves or they would lay in a coffin all day. (Hope they remember to set the alarm clock, It would not be too nice to open the lid and find the sun shining.)

Did you ever think that you might be perceiving what I am saying as wrong? You have been saying over and over that I should respect others, I am going into detail to show that is not what we should, or what we really do. You might still and have seen this as petty. But it is ordering the conversation correctly. So each time a person tells me to respect others, I will take that as how it is being said, and that is not how anyone should be.

Respect is not a free gift to others, it is a reward of merit which has to be seen as worthy to be bestowed as far as I am concerned.

Everyone goes to heaven, and I even tell them that. But I care enough to try to talk them out of it so they do not end up with more problems then they ever dreamed possible. Those who desire suicide are suffering in some form now. So that gets a reaction of caring anyway. But many do not know how hard it is to kill the body.

I can remember one of the ten most wanted they show when some of the TV Stations go off at night. A man picked up a hitchhikers. He got the driver outside the car, Wished him a merry Christmas. Then shot the man four times point blank in the head with a 357 magnum pistol. A 357 magnum is a CANNON. Four times in the head with that would and should kill you immediately.

But the man lived to testify against the one who shot him, they just wanted to know his whereabouts.

Most attempts will fail, the reasons why they want to commit suicide has to be addressed, if it is out of their physical suffering the lost of a sweetheart to another, or just a dear John letter. Or a life of great physical pain.

You make a statement “Why would it matter to you if a person committed suicide?” then wonder why I might not show you Respect? Are you being respectful? Regardless if I believe all people go to Heaven, That is not what you are saying, But the “why would it matter to you” reflects an indifference to others that are suffering, or wanting to threaten themselves to control others.

“Start leading by example.” Sorry, I show who is leading, and He has nail holes in His hands. I am a follower. Like a little car behind a tractor-trailer, I can not see where we are headed, I just follow and try to stay in His tracks. I know where the final destination is. The Letter on the truck is G-O-D, and that is not guaranteed overnight delivery.

Ken

A cheap shot ken...Is this the best you can do? No I stand by my post. If you have a problem with that OH WELL! Don't know don't care.If you say he will go to Heaven then yes you are condoning what he did.I will admit that this is going to sound childish: You seem to know everything what do you think.How so? I don't twist things like you seam to do. All the Christians on this forum and per your posts Church elders feel the same way. That is what happens when you get old. A natural part of ageing.I try to be consistent in my posts can you say the same? To say that someone that is 1. Evil, 2. Of a different Religion are going to Heaven? As LBD and I have tried to tell you....You have to show respect to get respect. You do not get respect by outright killing people because of their beliefs. Oh I forgot the Crusades sorry. My turn for a cheap shot. Hey you do know how to get the respect that you want. How do you expect me to belive this? You could just be making this up. Not here as can be seen and as I have said but you might want to look and see if it is directed at you.
My "Two Tailed Zandore" Opinion!

god is hard to believe in because the belief relies on faith and bad B rated science fiction movie story lines.

Not bad.

You have shown this side of yourself several times now...

Thats kind of like you saying "I have a grilled cheese sandwich", but you really have a tuna fish sandwich...
Does anyone understand what you say?

Yeah... I have been telling you this for a while now... Are you actually going to listen? No, probably not...

Speak for yourself buddy....

That is how you see it Ken... And you and me see a lot of things differently, thats obvious...

But there has to be a certain level of respect from the very beginning...

I was asking you a question in direct connection to your belief of everyone going to heaven...
This is what I mean about you being petty... You take something out of context, then try to make me look bad... Read my siggy...

Thats not what I said at all... I didn't say why would it matter to me... I said why would it matter if everyone went to heaven anyways... You know why I said it...
And trust me, suicide is not something I take lightly... For your information my mom tried to commit suicide about 8 years ago... Not an experience I ever want to go through again, and I wouldn't wish it apone anyone...

*sigh*
Here you go again, taking it out of context...
I know you follow Jesus...
Then you should do a better job of "following by example"...


LBD

Mission Impossible.

Having fun boys...lol
What are we talking about in this thread anyways.
I appear to be lost

Zandore. A cheap shot? Naw, a slinged stone taking out a giant is a Cheap shot. But I noticed you did not say you are old enough to be on this forum. That would be 13.

I have talked to a lot of children in the chat rooms, You seem to speak like they do. Many say they are adults. Many just wish they were.

Saddam will be in Heaven at death with the Righteousness of Christ on Him as we all will have. And I am condoning Jesus for getting us all in. What He did at Golgotha.

Giving an answer before you have heard what the concept is that is being spoken of is called Answering too quick. Solomon mentioned it:

(PROVERBS 18:13) He that answereth a matter before he heareth it,
it is folly and shame unto him. (KJV)

We start getting old the moment we are conceived. Many forget the first about nine months and start counting all over again.

If what we do or accept gets us into heaven then it is Salvation by works, But that is not what gets us into heaven, Jesus taking our place or our deaths, gave us salvation by grace. We all fall short, God just lumped us all as sheep which went astray and placed all iniquity on Jesus.

I could be making it up, But why seeing it is at hand and available. It is no different then a person being angry with another because their girlfriend likes the other better.


Me I am. You do not need faith to believe. Bypass faith and go right to sight. Look at what the Jewish nation has for beliefs. Look at what the old Testament says, and look who fulfilled every jot and tittle.

Can you predict in detail all the events President bush will encounter tomorrow? Fine detail? The words he will use, the thoughts he will think? God did that through over 40 prophets all telling of one day in time that would not come for about 400 years after God stopped inspiring the writings.

God can do such a thing, People can not.


Lightbeyondthedark.

These things have been hashed over quite a bit.

Ken

As is another one here. Just read back a page or three to bring yourself up to speed.

I have stated how old I am both in the profile section and in post. So with that in mind are you calling my a liar?

[quote=lightbeyondthedark,Mar 8 2005, 09:26 AM]
[
[quote=Ken1Burton,Mar 7 2005, 04:04 PM]Respect is not a free gift to others, it is a reward of merit which has to be seen as worthy to be bestowed as far as I am concerned.[/quote]But there has to be a certain level of respect from the very beginning...

[quote=Ken1Burton,Mar 7 2005, 04:04 PM]You make a statement “Why would it matter to you if a person committed suicide?” then wonder why I might not show you Respect? Are you being respectful?[/quote]I was asking you a question in direct connection to your belief of everyone going to heaven...
This is what I mean about you being petty... You take something out of context, then try to make me look bad... Read my siggy...

first of all, it is a free gift... all we have to do is take it... secondly, just because a person comitts suicide, though it is very selfish, they are not automatically doomed to hell.. contrary to popular belief.
Just a thought

Saddam will be in Heaven at death with the Righteousness of Christ on Him as we all will have. And I am condoning Jesus for getting us all in. What He did at Golgotha.

if you believe that, ken, you are no christian.. im sorry but if u believe that Saddam Hussen(SP), NON CHRISTIAN, killer of millions, and all around bad guy, will go to heaven, you are out of your mind!!!! Aside from the fact that he is a murderer and a bad guy, which jesus would have forgiven him for, he is NOT A BELIEVER!!! that is the main point. to go to heaven you have to ask God to come into your heart and become a christian, well, being a muslim and all, HE HAS NOT!
Just a thought

Lover of God.

Suicide is not just a one sided concept, It has many sides. Suffering, to manipulate, to get even. to just end a life that is not happy, to be with one who has already died. Maybe as many reasons as there are suicides. And many of them are children.

And the grace of God is sufficient for those who chose to take their own life. But it is not always an EASY way out. And it does not always get a person out of this life. There are far more attempted suicides then there are those who committed suicide.

What ever the reason, the one who is attempting it is suffering in some form. Even if from being spoiled and can not get their way.

“I will never forsake you.” covers a lot of ground.

Lover of God.

Ever hear of “By grace are we saved. Through faith, and that not of ourselves.”? Does Grace require we accept Jesus? Does Grace require we repent? Is Grace unconditional?

Can God have mercy on whom He wants to have mercy? Did God conclude all in unbelief? If God loves those who love Him, Is that anything special?

(LUKE 6:32) For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye?
for sinners also love those that love them. (KJV)
(LUKE 6:33) And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what
thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. (KJV)
(LUKE 6:34) And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what
thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much
again. (KJV)
(LUKE 6:35) But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping
for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be
the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and
to the evil. (KJV)

Jesus said the words He spoke were not His but the Father’s and the Father is speaking through Jesus to show us Himself. NOTICE the WORDS “He is Kind to the UNTHANKFUL and to the EVIL.”

I said Saddam will be with us in Heaven with the same righteousness of Christ on him, that is bestowed on us, and that all by grace, lest any man should boast.

We did not come up with the concept of “Love Your enemies.” God did, And that is how He is. How He has always been, How He will always be.

God has killed millions for doing evil. No doubt about it. But what happens then? Before Calvary they were as asleep. Waiting to be revived after two days. Then in the third day they were raised up. They had not yet known the Lord, But they have eternity to know Him very, very well.

(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)
(HOSEA 6:3) Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto
us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (KJV)

Maybe instead of complaining how many God has killed, We ought to thank God for taking many evil people off the earth. Not to suffer for eternity, But maybe a little quite time to reflect on the way they have been.

And for those who had lived decent lives, a little quite time during which they had nothing to be ashamed of as they waited in sleep for the God who loves them to call them Home.

Now it is absent from the Body, present with the Lord. We go to heaven’s gate at death, If you do not want to go right in, there is a large group of those who came out of hell, who will tell you what the Grace of a loving God is worth. They are the ones seen in Revelation as having come out of great tribulation.

Jesus seen as a Woman in Scripture when in Hell, the BED is Hell, the place is a place of sleep, the Bed is shorter then a man can stretch Himself. It is one day seen as 3 pictures, not three physical days and nights.

Jesus took the future sins of the world to a cross at Golgotha. Past and present sins ended “With His stripes we are healed.” Jesus had to RETAIN those future sins, He could not REPENT. He had to die for sin to fulfill the prophecies of Every man shall be put to death for HIS OWN sin as Deuteronomy 24:16 required. Jesus has the Unpardonable sin He has to DIE at Calvary.

(REVELATION 2:20) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee,
because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a
prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit
fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. (KJV)

Fornication seen as Holiness unto the Lord in Isaiah 23:17/18. Or Jesus loving EVERYONE.
Jesus took Jezebel’s sin also, Jezebel is CAST down by “”“Two or three eunuchs”“” the day of the cross seen as three pictures, twice spoken of, once brought to pass, always spoke of as “2 or 3".

Teaching us to love everyone also, Not just the Lost sheep of the house of Israel, but to reach for all mankind.

(REVELATION 2:21) And I gave her space to repent of her
fornication; and she repented not. (KJV)

Jesus had to retain sins, and die with sin to get the keys to death and hell He needs to get into hell and as a STREET get them all out and shut it down.

(REVELATION 2:22) Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that
commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent
of their deeds. (KJV)

“If I make My BED in Hell.” Great tribulation is hell, those out of Great tribulation left hell with Jesus on the third day.

(REVELATION 2:23) And I will kill her children with death; and all
the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and
hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your
works. (KJV)

We can not be BORN AGAIN without being killed, Old Self has to be put to death.

Saddam a “Murderer and a bad guy.”? Sounds like Barabbas. But Someone took his place, did He not?

“I am out of my mind.”, Thank you very much, We are supposed to be, we are to have the mind of Christ.

By the way, the Word MUSLIM means a True believer in God, You want the word Moslem. And He was not following the Quran anyway.

Ken

Uh, yeah. Just like children can be the ONLY reason someone DOESN'T kill themselves. Happens a lot.


Maybe there's a reason for that, too. Like, maybe God didn't WANT them out of this world yet, and sent someone or thing to intervene...hmmm....


If you're committing suicide because you're spoiled, you're not REALLY suffering. You're just a brat who always got attention any way they could and now no one's paying attention to you... Man, I only WISH that kind of crap worked. LOL


Yeah, but you forget the rest of that verse: "it is the GIFT of God." You can't be saved unless you ACCEPT the gift...keep reading for further explanation...


Ahh, no. You're taking ONE verse to justify your view on Heaven. And that isn't right. There are dozens more verses about salvation, and what is required, besides just grace. Read these:
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH on Him shall have everlasting life."
John 3:20 "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."
John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall NOT see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
Luk 7:50 "And he said to the woman, Thy FAITH hath saved thee; go in peace."
Act 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Act 16:31 "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
Rom 10:9 "That if thou shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
I John 1:7-9 "But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 IF we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Sounds like there's things WE have to do, doesn't it? We have to ACCEPT the Gift. Think about it: a birthday present doesn't just sit at your doorstep, ring the doorbell, and WALK into your house, does it? No. You have to open the door, reach down, and TAKE it. Otherwise, the gift is WORHTLESS.


Yes, but that does NOT mean that He loves them enough to allow SIN into Heaven. And I'm sorry, but Saddam's sins have NOT been forgiven -- UNLESS he has accepted Christ's sacrifice.


This has NOTHING to do with the Jezebel from the OT. She was LONG dead by the time this was written, therefore how could she be in a NT church calling herself a prophetess? Unless she lived a good 2 thousand years or so....AFTER SHE DIED!!! LOL And the "woman Jezebel" could NOT have been Jesus, as HE was the one TALKING. Unless He's schizo...


Yeah, Jesus took Barabbas' place. But unless Barabbas believed that Jesus was THE Sacrifice, like the thief on the cross who believed, then he isn't in Heaven either. Sorry. Also, from http://www.ucg.org/commentary/saddamcapture.htm: "Early media reports indicated that Saddam Hussein soon returned to form, becoming "unrepentant and defiant" and showing "no remorse."


Actually, according to one site I found, "Therefore, we would understand that the one who is actively doing the verb of "Islam" [SUBMISSION to God] is a "Mu"-Islam or "Muslim." And Muslims follow the Quran, which states:
"The true religion with God is Islam. And whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him (Q. 3:84,85)."
So there you have it. If the Muslim religion is right, then we should all be practicing Islam.
And according to most MUSLIM's, they find the word MOSLEM derogatory -- in short, a RACIAL slur. So the correct term is MUSLIM.

Of course, you will choose to believe whatever you *think* is correct...regardless of the truth...so all this is probably unnecessary....but oh well.

~Scarlet~

Usually when I put my mind to it, I can stop an argument with what would seem as spiralling away from the topic which in this case is "Why is it hard for me to believe in God." from progressing any further, without having any mod authority. So here goes.



FLAMEWAR!!!

Scarlet1.

I believe God often prevents a Suicide from being fulfilled. If God has something for you to do here on earth Tomorrow, You are not leaving today.

I did not forget the rest of that verse, Jesus rendered to man His righteousness in Job 33:26. So the Faith was what Jesus gave us. Part of His righteousness. He took the Baptism of repentnace because He was preparing what we would need when He gave us His.

The Gifts and Callings of God are WITHOUT Repentance. So throw away repentance as a requirement, God concluded all in unbelief so throw away belief as a requirement. If we needed to accept, and that is hard if God concluded us all in Unbelief. Then our accepting can be bragged on.

But with God pouring out His Spirit (Jesus) upon all flesh, Jesus coming as the Rain, and He maketh the rain to fall on the Just and the unjust.

OK. John 3:16. BUT what KIND of Everlasting life? Length of days? No, all mankind has that by God taking away death. We now go from life to life.

Jesus likened Everlasting life to “Knowing the One True God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.” This type needs Belief to See God and Jesus.

God had to fulfill His promises. But length of days can not ever be fulfilled as we live in “World without end.” We have Eternity, God can never say I have fulfilled giving you eternal life in the length of days we live.

So God likened Eternal life as something He could fulfill. So God likened it to a way of life, Dwelling with God and Jesus clearly in your heart. Seeing them there. A Life He could fulfill and say the prophecy has been fulfilled. Every jot and tittle covered.

BUT, (Notice that first word) The Whosoever believeth on Him shall have everlasting life. So if you can not see Him clearly, You really do not yet know the One True God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

You asked me to go forward with the verse on By grace are we saved to get it into Context. Here, we need to go backwards. Start at John 3:14 to get 3:16 into context:

(JOHN 3:14) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (KJV)

Have you lifted up Jesus AS the SERPENT? The kind with a TAIL? The kind that HISSES, the kind that Swallows up other serpents, Even a generation of vipers, all consumed into the Body of Christ.

Have you seen the day of the cross is the WILDERNESS, a day the House if built, the day as 7 days or 7 pillars? The day Jesus was carried to by the Spirit to be tempted. The day He is told to Cast Himself down, or allow the 144 with Judas Multiplied by 1,000 in Deuteronomy 1:11 to 144,000. Seen as a wall in Revelation 21:17. Measured up as angels given charge over Him. Which He HAS TO DO.

He has to command the stones to be made Bread, or fulfill every prophecy.

He has to fall down and worship, and it is His Father talking to Him, or allow Himself to die.

That is lifting up Jesus as the Serpent in the wilderness. Seeing Who Jesus is, where Jesus is.

NOW with that in mind, John 3:15 will fit in Context:

(JOHN 3:15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have eternal life. (KJV)

Now you have Eternal life or KNOW the One True God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

For God so loved the WORLD, Not Just believers, But all mankind. That (Paraphrase: has seen Jesus is the Serpent, and where He is in that Wilderness, Shall see Him clearly or have everlasting life.)

The Wrath of God is the third picture for the day of the cross which fulfills God’s words and establishes it as Truth, And part of that Wrath is God’s grace upon all mankind.

1=anger, 2=Fury, 3=wrath. The wine of the Wrath of God is the Blood of Christ upon all mankind. God treads them in anger, Tramples them in Fury, they are Trodden in wrath. 1=Treads, 2=Tramples, 3=Trodden. All keywords to have the right parts of Scripture put into the proper place.

(PROVERBS 9:1) Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her
seven pillars: (KJV)

(JOB 39:6) Whose house I have made the wilderness, and the barren
land his dwellings. (KJV)

(PROVERBS 24:3) Through wisdom is an house builded; and by
understanding it is established: (KJV)
(PROVERBS 24:4) And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with
all precious and pleasant riches. (KJV)

Got any Chambers filled yet?

The Disciples were sealed from seeing Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9:24's making an end of sin and bringing in everlasting righteousness, and Jesus Spirit being poured upon all mankind is brining in everlasting righteousness upon all mankind. So the Seal kept them from seeing, so they spoke ERROR.

Daniel 9:24 shows Saddam has no sins accountable unto him. God laid upon Jesus the iniquity of us all in Isaiah 53:6, and rendered to man His righteousness in Job 33:26. “It is Finished.”

God the Father is talking, He is giving Jesus the REVELATION. “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, Which God gave unto HIM, to show unto His servants, Or go back 42 months, and show the Disciples which were then servants what I have just showed you here at the day of the cross where I had the Spirit bring you. But after the day of the cross starts, you declare you will no longer call them servants, But friends (John 15:15)

God speaks in Similitudes, God poured upon Jesus all the curses because He tool everyone’s sins, So He can call Jesus Jezebel, or Abraham, or Jacob, What ever name He wants, when He curses Adam, it is for Jesus, when He curses Esau, it is for Jesus.

Grace does not require Saddam to have remorse. That will come after Saddam sees God’s love when He reaches Heaven if not before death.

The Quran also shows Jesus and the Disciples as Muslims, or True believers in God.

Ken

Whoah, Ken. Could you try keep your responses to under than the length of a novel?

I have asked him this many times... No he can't... lol

LBD

lol LBD.

He's quite the writer.

No it is cut and paste.

Ken man did you even read this post??
Your argument is weak..your honestly the first person I've ever met that believes just because God is forgiving, even the most evil of us is going to heaven. That is so absurd Im not even gonna bother to argue it. My buddy Scarlet here said it well enuff, and, unlike the verses u took out of context, these are undisputable.

- Dark

Yes, that was a very good post by Scarlet...

LBD

He never fully reads other peoples postsMany have told him and he still will not take heed.

yeah, if you are going to quote the bible, all you have to say is "the bible say so" because that is all you are using as proof for your argument.

now you may argue against this point with something along the lines of "well if you use facts out of a history book, then all you have to state is 'my history book says so'". we know history happened and we trust history books. we are forced to rely on faith to believe what is in the bible. those are two different things.

so all you really need to say is, i believe because i have faith in the bible being true. and really all of that boils down to just faith so i guess you could just simply say i believe in god because i have faith.

when i was little i asked god to tell me he was real and he didn't. now god is supposed to be this loving and caring "thing" that loves everyone. he is so smart that he designed our very complex bodies. i would think that god would let me know he is out there so that i would believe and therefore go to heaven . many may argue that he is too busy, but he should be able to multitask far better than any computer today if he designed us all.

anyway, you can see why it is hard for many people to believe. this is why there are lots of doubts. of course a large number of the world believes in some sort of god but they do not know what god is. they don't understand it but they blindingly believe. maybe some of this is due to pressure from society and culture. that would be my guess. also the drive in some people to want a father figure or some sort of purpose in life. oh and don't forget the scare tactics such as buring in hell forever.