Thank you Zan.
I have noticed that many people that were raped and/or beaten, always blame themselves. It doesn't help when someone says, "You deserved it cause we are born in sin and God created us to have freewill."

Always,
Free

Free I know you are sick and tired of it with certain people preaching the Bible but please forgive me in my lapse. I am not preaching to you I am trying to set someone else straight. I as you hold to no religion and to use their own words and Holy Bible against them is ............

Mahatma Gandhi was a very unique man. Many times Evangelists sat on his doorstep for whole hours trying to convert him to Protestant Christianity.

Gandhi did not accept the teaching of Evangelists, neither did he reject them. He understood and respected them, and that was all.

Many times Mahatma said, "I am Brahman, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc."

Mahatma understood that all religions are necessary because they contain the same Eternal Values.

Accepting or rejecting any doctrine or concept reveals a lack of mental maturity.

When we reject or accept something, it is because we have not understood it.

Whenever understanding exists, accepting or rejecting is unnecessary.

The mind that believes, the mind that does not believe and the mind that doubts is an ignorant mind.

The path of wisdom does not lie in believing, not believing or doubting.

The path of wisdom consists in inquiring, analyzing, meditating, experimenting.

Truth is the unknown from moment to moment. Truth has nothing to do with what one believes or stops believing; neither does it have anything to do with skepticism.

Truth is not a matter of accepting or rejecting it is something to experience, live and understand.

I believe I am a very mature person, and the fact that I accept the doctrines of christianity and reject the others does not call my maturity into question.
And I did not become the christian I am today over night... It was a long journey of searching out answers and truths. I put my faith in my beliefs because they are truth, to me... I wouldn't have that faith if I didn't think they were true...

I did not stumble into my faith... Through my faith I gain knowledge, through knowledge I gain widsom, and through wisdom I gain understanding..

But these are just my beliefs...

Thank you for that Loge

Gandhi is a idol of mine, he truly knew a lot about spiritual wisdom, and was one of the most holy men the world has ever seen. A man that fort and won against corruption in the most powerful form, and against all the odds, without even raising his hand in anger, not a bullet was shot against his suppressers. Its a shame others dont live by his example, he was one of few people in this world that has ever understood what is on gods mind. Peace plain and simple, no in-betweens, no half truths, no excuse for violence, just peace and love in its truest and purest form, and yet he had no reason to judge or condemn anyone.

All the best
Faeden

I second that. Loge thank you for your insight.

Loge your words or not that was well said. If more people could live that way there would be less war and bigotry on this dust mote.

Freespyryt, my thoughts are with you right now.

I admire that you say that you believe in yourself, and those close to you. Believing in yourself is often the hardest thing a person can do; but I think that everyone, regardless of religious preferencess, or lack of, can benefit from being strong, and doing things for themselves.

You are a very brave, and beautiful human being, and you will always have my respect and support!

Best wishes,
kyo-batsu

Zandore.

The Mount Zion is Calvary, it is the day of the cross when God sets Jesus on that hill. And it is the Body of Christ that is born there. With all mankind in that Body. That is where we are created in His image, or created in Christ.

The DUST is not a pile of dirt on the Ground, it is the Seed of Abraham, From which God formed Jesus who is Adam, The Creation story is a similitude for the day of the cross, the BEGINNING is the day of the Cross, the Old World had no BEGINNING. God speaks in SIMILITUDES.

The River in the Garden of Eden is divided into 4 heads, that is the first picture for the day of the cross seen as 4 6-hour periods, as 4 beasts with 6-wings, as the first 4 days of Genesis. As the Four horsemen. All looking at the very same day in time, when all prophecies are fulfilled.

The Creation story is a PROPHECY. Sodom and Gomorrah is a PROPHECY, Noah's Ark is a PROPHECY. They were not done before the day of the cross. They are for that day, and that day only.

Zandore, as far as James 1:26, I am not too concerned, for if I am talking of myself the words have little value, But if God speaks and gives me words to utter, I am not about to slap a gag order on Him.

(MATTHEW 10:27) What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. (KJV)


As far as the Start of this thread, I think that has been covered as far as every possible suggestion has been given to Freespyryt. And that is from believers and non-believers alike. I do not see any of them taken, I think this was just a conversation piece, not seeking any advice or help to deal with it. (Thus saith the Smuck)

Names do not offend me, And I question anyone who complains about persecution. They might not have read the fine print when God handed them the application. It comes with the territory, and be glad when it comes.

(MATTHEW 5:11) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and
persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you
falsely, for my sake. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 5:12) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your
reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were
before you. (KJV)

If you are not called names, hated, persecuted (I doubt if we really know of this now, the Lions are all caged up) then maybe you better check to see who you are really following?

A tail might come in real handy, We could type with two hands and drink a soda at the same time. Maybe Scientist can find the TAIL GENE. And I have noticed people walking with little children which have to stretch their little arms up to hold the Parent's hand, Just holding on the parents tail might be a lot easier.


Ken

This is the only time I am going to say it . The next person who insults or even retaliates to an assumed insult , will be able to consider themselves soley responsible for the closure of this thread.

free ,

it is sad of what has been done onto you and the life you experienced in the past. but life as it is known and trust, shall cure the bitterness in time with hope, courage and smile or forgiveness.

they or them, say they believe in god. they stand by what they hear, read or mimic,
but never; they see one.

never in thruthfulness to proof the existence. if you ask them, where god is, then i am definite that they could not show literally. but yet they say that god had a son.

and them say that their ancestral parentage are monkeys. and it is so that true what monkeys see monkeys do.

this act is what happened to you in the past and the rest of the world threatened with chaos now.

those who say that they believe in god are truely superficial. as the word believe is subjective. as you can, you cannot or you may or whatever. or is it that god exist or you are in existence ?

the existence of God exists to those who witnessed. me saying and quote.

but when i read thru your posts, i incline to conclude that you do believe in god do
you ? it was your own reasoning that you do not believe in god because he did not attend to your prayers. this is not an excuse and it is very lame and too much salt in sour grape.

you even requested people to convince you to believe in god and god's worthiness. but it is in my perceptions that the way you responded, reflects your anger towards god that you believe and you have intent into inviting others to forum on tounge lashing towards god. like i say, believe is subjective to choices.

the rumour is that from your past experience would make you a stronger person. well prove it and i am in certainty that it is yet to be proven by your improvementt in submission to life. the proof that is seen and i can see and proof to show you that you exist in existence that stop in a standstill of time.

in life there's a lot of laughter and sadness and there worst senarios experienced by friends, relatives, people and foes; and me in a similiar and different degree or disgusts situations and manner. but people changed and learned and live life for the better. we are thankfull for the moment of every breath and heartbeat to continue in our journey to embrace patience and smile that life carved on our faces to comprehend love and forgiveness and peace. only the Strong shall achieve the quest
in humanity.

you can see the proof of my authority is saying these. read , listen , see and ask and learn. don't tell me that you do not or never came across anywhere.

self pitty is weak, conquered and dead but if you make the world and life a better place to live for you and everybody with a smile and calm hearts, then that is strong and alive.

life is fair. it is the persons that are unfair. the sinners are punished was he not ? but
are you the sinner ? if not, then why must you punished yourself and let anger eat your heart out ? and you have no absolute manner in protesting or in denial of person or persons talking about what they believe ther is god. what they believe is very deeply personal and protected by respect and by law. cursing and lashing on pertaining to this matter is it not rape to you ?

think again and do it calmly and with comprehensiveness. you should be more listening and guide people to actually understand your needs. please do not confused
shut doors to your heart with negativity. you should know a lot better by now. every body else is confuse of what they could not comprehend entirely. it is you who are asking and they are only here to help with honesty. and it is my perception that i sense the strengh in their interest that acquired from their past experiences.

anyway, just for your information; heaven and hell, nirvana, the wheels, mount olympus, house of gods, a better place beside god and so on or whatever they or any
religion or believe or even the force call it; the place and topic belong to and related
to god and god only.

so, in regards to your denial of the existence of god with all the remarks about god that you have forwarded, then it is evidently proof that god do not exist to you.

and you have no business to hope for or to be in those places mentioned above. that goes to everybody you know, you touched, you lived, you born to and you love. it all revolves around you. when you or them are dead, then you are gone into life itself; that is to dust.

so you see; there is only the path you take in life. either you believe in god, nature, science or logic etc.. it does not matter to anyonelse. it's you and the truth you hold in time.

if the truth you hold, as you said that when you are die you will be spiritually go to like some better place, and love will linger on etc..etc.. well may i ask you that where
did you hear, read, mimic and see or feel ? but as you say indirectly; you just made that up ! didn't you ? well, i think i have my own opinion on that..., it is just b...s...

sorry i do not have nice things to say to you or anybody reading this. but if you look it at a different angle of understanding, you might learn something new here. you are letting yourself pampered with what you want to hear soothing words from what others have to say to you but not what you actually need to hear. i say these because i feel that less people truly love you enough to face the challenge of hate and retaliations from you if they try to help you to deal with your trauma. how long has it been since. do you realy ever think and think hard that throughout the time untill present that your personality or interactions with others did not effect negatively in silence towards others ? you wrote in a way that i preceived somehow and somewhere it effects by chance of the character of your mind.

be strong to the truth and be fair to your heart. give it a chance and give yourself a chance first as it is never too late. meet more people who look forward in life and go
to nice places especialy a place where you can hear nature whispers to you thru the wind, colors and the it's sounds that is hidden.... where only peaceful hearts could hear.

that is not a religion, that is science and it's wonders. give time the chance, be in it and you got nothing to loose if you try, but try harder with respect and understanding this time. your mind can work in a million ways if you seek. be positive.

free , you are not ugly and you have grown up to be a beautifull woman. ask your boyfriend if you don't believe and ask the people that you have helped and touched.
there's nothing hapened to you now and there will never be if you believe that you have the strength to step over it with time and patience.

and remember, God exist to those who witnessed and it is not a secret.

and free, remember that you will do just fine.

and for a start, would you give forgiveness to me ?


sincere

liquidmetal, if we consider that you're right, and she does still belief in God, and is just "angry" at him....let's lead on from there...

What obligation does she have, exactly, to worship a being that made no attempt to help her, when her life got so bad? What obligation do ANY of us have to worship a being that, in a world full of death and suffering, refuses to lift a finger to do anything about it?

Allow me to create a little annalogy for you...

A child, the only child I might add of a single parent, lives in contentment with its (we'll say, for the sake of arguement) father. The father, though stern, is not altogether unkind, giving many gifts, and taking great pride in his child. The parent does, however, have one rule...the child is not allowed to read a book, go to school, or become knowledgeable in any way shape or form.

So the child spends a few years dwelling in absolutely stupidity. Blissfully ignorant of the world outside its front door (for it is not allowed to leave, should it by some chance come into contact with knowledge), one day, however, another child from across the street happens by...he had seen the child through the windows, but had never seen it outside, and grown curious.

Talking to the child when the father is away, he exposes our central character to many wonderous things...knowledge, facts, and wisdom that they had never even dreamt of. They learn to read through their new friend, they learn of far away places and people, of art, culture, music, everything that can be imagined.

The meagre home, for all its pleasantries, suddenly becomes very clear as the prison it is....and when the father returns home, and finds his child has been exposed to...DUN DUN DUN...knowledge! He is furious! He throws the child into the streets, naked and peniless, armed only with the knowledge that they had been given.

For a long time, the child wanders through the world...however, the knowledge they had been given helps them to survive. They adapt...they grow strong...they are eventually able to function and provide for themselves in a manner that rivals that of their old home. In time, they meet others who truly love them...not the jealous, selfish love of their parent, but a genuine love that...also as a side effect of the new found knowledge they've gotten, results in some steamy action leading to the next generation.

The father, in time, has allowed his anger to cool, and contacts his long lost child. He invites them back into the luxury of his home, on the condition that they forsake the aquisition of further knowledge, and take every word he says as fact. There, they will live a longer life thanks to his many perks, and free dental plans.

However, why would the child want to go back? What sacrifice is a temporary life set against being exposed to the vast wonders and knowledge of the universe? Something that their father would deny them in favour of the ignorance he intended to instill.



I do not believe in God...if I did, however, I would consider him a smothering, lying, deceitful being. I believe he created man to dwell in ignorance, and would have denied him the true experience of living for all eternity had it not been for the intervention of our little buddy Satan.

I am quite content to live for only a few decades more, if it means I will still be permitted to learn more and more about the world and the universe around us. I have no intention of sacrificing knowledge, which I consider far more valuable than eternity, to bend knee to a frightened, crusty old man, who's worried that he's become obsolete.

Here are just some of the reasons
1. He is a blood thirsty God.
2. He demanded a human sacrifice (his own son?).
3. He demanded animal sacrifice (a lamb).
4. He has killed all but one family on at least one occasion.
5. He has made people commit incest on at least two occasions.
6. he has allowed his servants to molest young boys and girls in his own house.
Do you start to get the picture? These are just some of them I can think of more.

People often judge God as if he was on our level... He is God, we are not... When will people stop elevating themselves to the level of Gods?

Kyo: Thank you for your kind words, I do take posts like that to heart.

LightBD:Gods? Plural. Hmmm interesting.

Liquidmetal: I am very strong. But sometimes even the strongest has their weakest moments.

Now why is that interesting? Because I said Gods... Well I was talking about "people" (also plural) putting themselves on the level of God... I said Gods simply because there is more then one person in this case...

But I will correct myslef...
When will people stop elevating themselves to the level of GOD?
better?

These song lyrics seem appropriate.

God thinks all blacks are obsolete farm eqipment
God thinks the Jews killed his son and must be punished
God thinks the white man is Satan
God, they know what God thinks

God thinks we should all convert to Judaism
God thinks we must all be Christians and
God thinks we should all embrace Islam
God thinks the only true religion is Hinduism

And I
I know what God thinks
God thinks you're a waste of flesh
God prefers an Atheist

God thinks all people like you are evil
God thinks all people like you are an embarassment to creation
self-righteous, judgemental, first to throw the stone
and use His name for your own protection

God thinks the sun revolves around the Earth
God thinks there was something very wrong with Copernicus
God thinks abortion is murder and
God thinks everything that science gave us is wrong
God thinks women deserve it
God thinks AIDS is a form of punishment

I hate people who blame the Devil for their own shortcomings and
I hate people who thank God when things go right

And I
I know what God thinks
God thinks you're an idiot
God prefers a heretic

God God
God thinks all people like you are evil
God thinks all people like you are an embarassment to creation
self-righteous, judgemental, first to throw the stone
and use His name for your own agenda

God is a liberal
God is a democrat
God wants you to vote republican
never trust a man who puts his words in the mouth of god
and says that it's absolute truth
its lies and it smells like death
its all in a day's work taking money from the poor
Why do you think that God would need your dirty money
if he wanted to start a holy war?

self-righteous, judgemental, first to throw the stone
and use His name for your own protection

Cause God is neither good nor bad
God is you and me
God is Everything

My goodness, if one day you would believe is such conception of God (a frightened, crusty old man, who's worried that he's become obsolete) explained by you in those two paragraphs above, I would be against your belief all the way!

You said that you have not intention of sacrificing knowledge, nonetheless, your skeptical mind is doing it based on a wretched understanding of That which you think God might be!

However, let me tell you something, if you change the word GOD for the word KNOWLEDGE, you then would be called in Greek "a GNOSTIC" (from the Greek Gnosis-Knowledge).

You like knowledge (Gnosis) so, you are contradicting yourself, because I thought you were an ATHEIST or AGNOSTIC (without knowledge).

So, tell us, do you like or dislike Knowledge? Because, if you do, then you like God because God is Knowledge: It is written: "You would be as GODS KNOWING good and evil."

Knowledge is infinite as eternity!

To be or not to be, that is the question!

though i don't believe in the god you are referring to, i have to say that by what you just said you believe in him or that he does exists. if i were you i take those back. and yes, it is relevant to the tread but it didn't answer the main question directly. to me you are nothing more than a angry dude that believes in this god.

*claps*
bravo! Loge...

From Kahlil Gibran

Then said a teacher, Speak to us of Teaching.

And he said:

No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge.

The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple, among his followers, gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness.

If he is indeed wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind.

The astronomer may speak to you of his understanding of space, but he cannot give you his understanding.

The musician may sing to you of the rhythm which is in all space, but he cannot give you the ear which arrests the rhythm, nor the voice that echoes it.

And he who is versed in the science of numbers can tell of the regions of weight and measure, but he cannot conduct you thither.

For the vision of one man lends not its wings to another man.

And even as each one of you stands alone in God's knowledge, so must each one of you be alone in his knowledge of God and in his understanding of the earth.

Why do you have the right to judge god as good yet we dont have the right to judge him if our conclusion isnt that he's anything but good?

THANKS!

Maybe I am "a angry dude" maybe I am seeing the truth, and speaking of truth I stated the truth in the post.

i was told to tell them the truth. no matter what happens TELL THEM THE TRUTH

Man, I cant figure out what this guy is going on about...

God being good is my opinion... True... But I didn't say that once in the quote...

No, but others do. If they say god is good, we should be be allowed to state our opinion on it, even if it is that god is not good.

No, but others do.

This is exactly why I always say I only speak for myself... Dont throw something at me if its someone else you want to be hitting...
And never did I once say you shouldn't state your opinion... I wouldn't come to this site if I didn't want to know other peoples opinions...

Sorry, but I didnt mean you as in you, but you as in christians.

I know what you meant, and really its no big deal.. But you really shouldn't generalize....

Zandore. I get the picture.

Here are just some of the reasons
1. He is a blood thirsty God.
2. He demanded a human sacrifice (his own son?).
3. He demanded animal sacrifice (a lamb).
4. He has killed all but one family on at least one occasion.
5. He has made people commit incest on at least two occasions.
6. he has allowed his servants to molest young boys and girls in his own house.
Do you start to get the picture? These are just some of them I can think of more.

The PICTURE shows me a balance weighing a matter with items on only one side.

Your saying HE IS THIS, HE IS THAT. So the items you list are in line with God existing. So as this is considering He exists, then the other side should also be based on His Existence.

Do you like life? Do you think it has any value? Maybe Someone ought to be thanked?

How about the body? Notice how well it was designed. Notice how great the gifts of sight, Movement are. It is best seen when you see one blind or crippled. Thankful seems to come easier then.

We start out an egg and a sperm, and it is a long journey till we are delivered as an infant. Many millions of changes have to take place as that small body develops. Many do not get to full term, some are miscarried. But a lot do make it as a healthy child. Some are not born that healthy, But they are still able to be loved and cared for.

Often a person thanks that one you listed as just bad. But many just keep counting those ten tiny fingers, and ten tiny toes. Just checking to see if everything came out right.

Now that God who offered His Son. I think it would have been better worded, allowed His Son to take our place. To eliminate any problems with a person coming to God, Guilt free, and with the righteousness of Christ on them. For Jesus rendered to man His righteousness, so all ours is as filthy rags, seeing we have His.

Both sides of a balance needs to be honestly filled. God is not Toast, He does not need to be buttered up. We do not need always to candy-coat everything we say about God and Jesus. Just be Honest as we can be.

Job’s three friends buttered up God a lot, and God spoke against them for it. Saying you have not spoken the things about me which are right like My Servant Job has. And Job did a lot of complaining against God.

This same God does not control mankind in rigor, He has given us freewill, We can believe, or believe not, we can serve God, or serve not. We do not get rewarded if we serve (sorry people), nor punished if we serve not. We all get all the rewards in heaven, for we have the righteousness of Christ on us all. And all punishment was taken care of at Calvary.

As far as what God does or does not, How little of that do we really know? Mankind has had Atomic weapons for over 60 years. Thousands of them. But we have not had an end many predicted, and many expected.

I do not understand a lot of what is in Scripture. Many times I see a lot of death which does not seem to be God-like as I see God. But I know a Loving God, and I am glad He is. And even if it means He never helps, I am still glad He exists. Even if eternal life was not given, I am glad He is here now.

Life has many beautiful things which has surrounded man. We encounter them almost every minute. In Nature, in People. In feelings. BUT, that is, and always has been, in the eye of the Beholder. So what you see, and how you perceive what you see, has a lot to do with what is within you. Or who dwells within you.

Ken

God is good b/c God gave us the breath of life.

I usually dont answer this guy, but I'll do it this time.



No... Its just pointing out his interpretation of a book. I can say "Hmm, the villain in StarWars is Darth Vader!" without actually believing Darth Vader exists!



Yes, thank god for making a world in which you would become blind?



Oh no? From the very beginning of the bible, we're punished for not serving him.



Because he gave us life just so he can take it away? Kind of sick if you ask me...

Or maybe he didnt give us life at all, and he's just posing as the one who did.

God also gave you loss, death, pain. Lovely.

Are you saying that your mind makes God not lovely because of your loss of understanding about death and pain?

Thats exactly what I am saying too... People really lack understanding on alot of issues...

That doesnt stop people from going around saying their god is good or any of that.

Hey Stellar, being you a Non-Corporeal Being (Spirit); are you Good or Evil!

I mean are you GoOD or d-EVIL?

Now, I like my life. Now, I think I am valued and my life has value to myself and to others. I'd like to thank The academy, the directors, the great costars and of course my wonderful Mother. (sorry couldn't resist the academy speech)



Well, it might be really nice on some people but I have some peoples body that is just soooo poorly put together... Ok, now are you blind, deaf or dumb? I know a few ppl that are deaf, some that are blind and my cousin is 'very slow'. Some of the ppl that I mentioned, are Thankful that they are alive BUT they kind of resent that they can't be what we call 'normal'. God has nothing to do with that stmt.

Now I have a question. Why, if heaven is so great, why do our souls even attempt to come back to earth? Why not stay 'dead'? Why even be reincarnated into another being to endure pain, loss and death all over again? If we are so highly rewarded in heaven, why leave?

sorry went to start saying something else and got cut off at work. it should be some people but some other peoples body...

My bad

Huh?



Hey, I never thought of it that way!

Ken I am taking a chance with the Mods on this one.
Back on page 25 of this thread you stated that the flood in your Bible did not happen. You have blatantly "EDITED your Bible" correct?
OK now that you agree with me on that one look at this:
Revelation: 22:19 which reads
and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (KJV)
I would suggest that you take a Bible study course and really learn the Bible as it should be. You might even save your own soul.

Very true zandore... True christian stand by every word in the bible...

But there are some of you that don't and I am not refering to you LBD.

Okay:




I could keep going, but that makes my point pretty well...

Ok... cool...

I agree with you... The way I look at it is, whats the point in calling yourself a christian if you dont stand by your "beliefs".

Don't you have to know your belief first before you can preach it to others?

Fluffybunny I am not sure of what you are trying to say.

So often Old testament quotes are thrown at me in an attempt to make God look bad...

The way I look at it is, why is there a New Testament then? I study the old, but I hold the new more to my heart.. There wouldn't be a new unless something changed... The change was Jesus Christ...

Old Testament = Wrath... Gods Pissed... lol
New Testament = Love... God redeems man...

But thats just the way I look at it...

I still stand by everything in the bible...

You don't seem to push it like other nameless A.... oops excuse my language