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lightbeyondthedark
QUOTE(whoa182 @ Jan 31 2005, 10:23 AM)
I think the majority of christian go against the bible.

IM pretty sure that the bible says not to get drunk ! and how many people in the world do that ?

The Bible teaches Christians that you are to be clean and holy -- spirit, soul and body. Our bodies are called the "temple of the Holy Spirit". Every Christian is accountable to God for the condition of his body.
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Well drinking, and getting drunk are two different things my friend...

And about being clean and holy... I really don't think by having a drink every so often soils by body, or my spirit...
Not to mention by myself I can never be truely clean or holy... Thats why Jesus died, to cleanse our hearts and make us holy...

But this is just my humble opinion... thumbsup.gif
zandore
QUOTE
Well drinking, and getting drunk are two different things my friend...

And about being clean and holy... I really don't think by having a drink every so often soils by body, or my spirit...

They are two different things. It is OK until you do it to excess. I think there is verse for it and if you need I can find it for you.
lightbeyondthedark
well at least we can agree on one thing zandore... lol thumbsup.gif
zandore
QUOTE(lightbeyondthedark @ Jan 31 2005, 07:40 PM)
well at least we can agree on one thing zandore... lol  thumbsup.gif
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That was coming from a non drinker and we agree on more than you think. yes.gif
Freespyryt24
I like to drink and I like to smoke. I hate smoking cigarettes though. Drinking games are soo much fun too. But you have to be RESPONSIBLE in what ever you do on a good night of partying.
Anyways....
From what I remember in sunday school, didn't Jesus present ppl with red wine and it was supposed to be his blood or something like that. So it is pretty contradicting.
Ken1Burton
Freespyryt.

Sorry, I do not go along with our having past lives. Only Christ which was David and Bathsheba’s child born outside wedlock is reincarnated. I was not the one who told you those things. I also do not hold sin as being the reason something happens to a person. That was someone else who told you that.

The Past lives or God knowing you will sin, and got you first, that was someone else.

Reincarnation is having more then one earthly life. Rebirth, Which only applied to Jesus.

Jesus said “Take no thought for the Body.” so forget the physical earthly body as the Temple of God, and make that the Body of Believers that is the temple of God.

As far as CLEAN, And the Cleanliness is next to Godliness, Remember Jesus found fault with the ones speaking against the Disciples for not washing their hands before eating. Jesus also did not wash His hands before eating and they found fault. The Clean is the INSIDE, Not the OUTSIDE, Not which entereth in, But that which proceedeth out.

(LUKE 11:38) And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had
not first washed before dinner. (KJV)
(LUKE 11:39) And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make
clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part
is full of ravening and wickedness. (KJV)

(MATTHEW 15:1) Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were
of Jerusalem, saying, (KJV)
(MATTHEW 15:2) Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the
elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 15:11) Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man;
but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (KJV)

Many like to believe Jesus turned the water into Grape juice, But it was wine, For the parable of the New wine breaking the old wineskins is because it ferments and causes an expansion because of the gas.

The Nazarites and the Priests (when they ministered) were to keep from wine.

Jesus took the vow of a Nazarite at the last supper, that is why He said He would not drink again of the fruit of the vine, till He drank it new with them in the Kingdom, Which He did on the cross as He was to fulfill all things “I Thirst” He drank the VINEagar, and allowed Himself to die.

Ken
lightbeyondthedark
Ken,
Just curious... Why is it you think Jesus is the reincarnated baby of David? From what I have read, Jesus is part of Davids family because of his earthly father Joseph. Joseph is of Davids royal kin, Jesus is recognized by him as his son. Where is the bible does it say that Jesus was born, died, and then born again... As far as I know Jesus lived one life, then died on the cross...

Although I do believe the bible does explain how Jesus exsisted before his birth...

-The word was God from the very beginning (John 1:1)
-The Word created all things (John 1:3)
-The word is the source of life (John 1:4)
-The word became a human being (John 1:14)

I have never read anything to lead me to believe that Jesus was born to David & Bathsheba, died, and then was born again to Mary & Joseph.
Jesus is part of the trinity that is God... The father, the son, and the holy ghost...

But this is just my opinion... thumbsup.gif
Ken1Burton
Freespyryt.

Christservant on page 21 is who made the remarks about maybe you sinned in a prior life. That is not my Doctrine, nor is Original sin Scriptural truth.


Light, God swore unto David in His Holiness to raise up his son which would proceed out of David's bowels, or his physical child. Joseph is a dead end, He had no physical relationship to Jesus, Both Geneologies go to Joseph, there is NO GENEOLOGY for Mary.

After the Promise in 2-Samuel 7:11/14 David had a child born outside wedlock to Bathsheba, died 7 days after birth. 1,000 years later a Child is laid in a manger in Bethlehem.

(REVELATION 1:5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful
witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the
kings of the earth.
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our
sins in his own blood, (KJV)

Jesus went to the Cross as a King, But was the first begotten of the dead as a Prince, as all of King David's sons were.

This goes into a lot of concepts that have to be explained, But only the Child Born outside wedlock can fulfill the prophecies for the Messiah. After David took Bathsheba God sent a prophet with a parable. The Parable was about David taking another man's ewe lamb to prepare for the wayfaring man who had come unto Him, it is for David taking Bathsheba to prepare for th promise of the Messiah.

(2SAMUEL 12:4) And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he
spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for
the wayfaring man that was come unto him;
but took the poor man's
lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him. (KJV)

(JEREMIAH 14:8) O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time
of trouble, why shouldest thou be as a stranger in the land, and as
a wayfaring man that
turneth aside to tarry for a night? (KJV)

That is why Jesus could tell Martha before going to the Cross "I am the Resurrection" and why He could tell the Disciples before going to the Cross "AGAIN I leave the world, and go unto the Father."

This is in detail on my web site listed in my profile in a file called God/Jesus relationship.

(LUKE 1:32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the
Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his
father David:
(KJV)

(PSALMS 89:34) My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing
that is gone out of my lips. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:35) Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie
unto David. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:36) His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as
the sun before me.
(KJV)

(ACTS 2:29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the
patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre
is with us unto this day. (KJV)
(ACTS 2:30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had
sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins,
according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ
to sit on his
throne; (KJV)

(ROMANS 1:3) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was
made of the seed of David according to the flesh; (KJV)


Jesus comes in the Volume of the book, so statements like "In sin did my Mother conceive Me." is for David and Bathsheba. "Thy Mother is a Hittite." Bathsheba is the wife of Uriah the Hittite.


Child born outside wedlock can not enter the Congregation till his tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:2 do not be offended by the words), The Child died 1004 bc, 10 100-generations later in a stable in Bethlehem, Shepherds bowed dwon before a manger.

God said He would send Elijah, then 400 silent years, or 10 40-year generations, God doubles twice to establish His words.

Ken


AlisClan
Hi Free. Im kinda new to this board, Just browsing around and your post caught my eye. Im going to copy and paste one of my works from my own message board that I co own. Its just something Im rambled out along the path of enlightenment.

When I write something I write it from my own opinion. My true belief here is that you take what resonates and leave the rest. yes.gif This is my post and my works so there should be no problems with admin, but if there is, feel free to let me know!

QUOTE
I want to say first and foremost, this is only MY belief. I did not write this to upset or start an arguement or debate! This is not my intention, I beg of you all not to take it this way. I am putting this in advanced and not Pandora's box because I want this piece available to all. If it helps one person get thru and come to terms with life and their own monsters, then to me, it was all worth it. Just one person whos soul is touched. We can survive, you can take everything we hold dear away from us, and we can still find a smile, laughter and love. My hope is for someone to take something away from this that is going to make tomorrow a little bit easier. No one that dosent want to has to respond to this, but please remember this is not a piece meant to be debated, or hated, just let it roll in your minds for a while. Some people might find this incredibly sensitive and even upsetting. So just remember, no fights, debates or hard feelings. Im just throwing this out there.





Where do monsters come from and why do we have to have them?

I believe that the real monsters in this world are, for the main part, only human beings. Those sick, twisted people out there that do monstrous things..

I have met my fair share of them, a grandpa, a stranger and a kid I knew since he was two ended up being a monster. The kind that preys on and attacks children.

Now please remember everyone, that everything I write is just apart of my belief system, this is the system that I have brewed in my head for many, many years…

I came to understand that before we come here, to be born, that we “set up” this life. We give it a basic direction. We dictate certain life experiences into our lives plan. Some good, some outstanding moments, and some are the true tests. When our human minds encounter and have to deal with what we perceive as true evil, true monsters.

But I came up against a problem in this thought system and I had questions I had to dig deep for the answers for..

A: Why did I choose to be in the monsters way? How could I have laid that kind of thing on myself?

B: Why did the monster choose their life path in the manner they did? Why did they choose to be a monster?

Those are not easy questions, and the answers I was looking for where even harder to swallow. I knew the answers the whole time in my heart, but coming to grips with them has been life altering to say the least.

As for the first question, I have to look at myself and my life right now. I have decided that I would not be who I am today if not for life altering events of the past. I have to accept that in the end, only I am in control of what has always happened, because I deemed it so a long time ago. I made that life blue-print and I gave myself choices to act and react to what life threw me..

One defining moment that made me see the light was something in my memory that’s always been there, but I ignored it as just a “silly” moment.

One day, as a very young girl, I forced myself off the monsters lap, I felt uncomfortable. I wondered outside to the back yard and was just musing around in 5 year old strangeness and something hit me on the head. I looked around and saw acorns or some other nut laying on the ground. I looked up and met eyes with a squirrel, he looked average in every way. I approached him and I remember saying “hey”. The squirrel watched me strangely, and seemed to communicate some kinda wisdom to me.. He threw another nut, to which I laughed and he sprung up the tree.

That moment was unreal.. It taught me to move on in some way or another. No matter how many nuts are thrown at me in this life, I can move on and darn it! I will still laugh!

The second question was harder for me to conquer… Because I always refused to think of where the monsters are now. One monster is already dead and there is no communication from him whats-so-ever. Why? Is he in a hellish room and unable to do so? Is his soul gone, demolished by his life deeds?

No………. Its not.

In order for our souls to understand goodness and strive for love, we must first understand evil..

I have come to understand that we have to kinda, run the gauntlet so to speak. For us to understand we have to live the life lessons of the monster. We must immerse ourselves in the evil in order to strive for the good and understand why we are striving for the good.

Think of the Hitlers and Osamas of this world? Why are they here and why do we, as humans need them? And why in the name of all that’s pure, would these souls volunteer for the job?!

The answer is simple really, but complex the deeper we look. I’m going to bring up The Matrix again, mainly to thrill Aloha, but because the moment fits.

Agent Smith is talking about how the robots shaped the world for humans and made it all “perfect”. No hunger, no pain. All seemed perfect. That totally blew up in there face and they realized that the human race needed, even in some cases craved suffering in order to thrive.

(Get to your point already, huhh Ali?)

We can not have the good without the evil, balance would be gone and lessons would not, and could not be learned. We can not have the Angels without the monsters. In order to love and be loved, annnndddd appreciate it, we must lose love, we must be betrayed and we must learn to look thru that and see a brighter tomorrow.

What I have learned thus far, that in order to understand these lessons, I must realize and come to terms with the fact that I put them in place BEFORE I got here. I choose to be in the path of a monster and I choose to live afterward.


Many Blessings and more enlightenment along your way. cool.gif
Seraphina
QUOTE
There is nothing you can do to make God stop loving you...


So...all those people he drowned....or...kills...or...blasts off the face of the earth...he loved them? huh.gif

Wow...what a loony...what does he do to people he hates!? dontgetit.gif
lightbeyondthedark
When a parent spanks a child they do it to teach that child... Yes it hurts the child, but the parent knows that the child will learn something from it and be better in the end... The human race is the child of God, so we can't get upset when he whacks us on our a**...

But thats just my opinion... thumbsup.gif
zandore
QUOTE(lightbeyondthedark @ Feb 1 2005, 03:11 PM)
When a parent spanks a child they do it to teach that child... Yes it hurts the child, but the parent knows that the child will learn something from it and be better in the end... The human race is the child of God, so we can't get upset when he whacks us on our a**...

But thats just my opinion...  thumbsup.gif
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LBD... Killing the whole human race but for one family? That to me sounds like...... well an overkill to me. hmm.gif
Seraphina
Spanking? huh.gif Who the hell brought up spanking? huh.gif We're not talking about that...we're talking about mass genocide...

A more fitting analogy would have been to use in your example a parent who, when their child does something wrong, savages them, before eventually blinding, burning, and drowning them.

Now call me crazy...but that sounds like bad parenting to me tongue.gif
zandore
QUOTE
Now call me crazy...but that sounds like bad parenting to me

If you are crazy then so am I.
PS.... I would call it "Bad Parenting" also. yes.gif
lightbeyondthedark
Well I have two things to say about that...

1: We can't understand what God is thinking... Or why he does things... The people of Noahs day were wicked... They did not deserve the life that had been given to them... But that was God judgement, and as I believe he is the only true judge...

2: If a artist draws something, but then he looks at it and it really isn't to his taste, does he hesitate from erasing it and starting over? Now I understand we are not a drawing on paper, but compared to God that all we are... God is the great artist of the universe... Does a painting tell the painter what colors to use? Does the clay tell the sculptor what to form it into?
We are the creation, under the creator... That is our place...

But thats just my opinion... thumbsup.gif
zandore
QUOTE
2: If a artist draws something, but then he looks at it and it really isn't to his taste, does he hesitate from erasing it and starting over? Now I understand we are not a drawing on paper, but compared to God that all we are... God is the great artist of the universe... Does a painting tell the painter what colors to use? Does the clay tell the sculptor what to form it into?
We are the creation, under the creator... That is our place...

LBD Can you draw, paint, any kind of art talent? Any good artist will tell you that the material tells you what to make. It will tell you what is inside ready to come out, Waiting for you to remove the extra parts that are not needed.
Kerkido
QUOTE(LuQy @ Jan 8 2005, 09:16 AM)
Consider this : An archaeologist digs deep into the desert sand and finds a piece of an old clay pot. After his investigations, this archaeologist can tell us, from this little old piece of dusty clay, so much about the civilisation that existed thousands of years ago that produced it; he can tell us about the types of ovens, temperatues, and dyes that they worked with, the raw materials that they used, and thus assess the level of their artistic skill and technological ability, etc. All this from a small piece of clay lying in the desert.
Did this archaeologist ever see the civilisation that produced this pot ?
How does he know that it ever existed ?
He knows because he saw that the piece of clay was produced by someone who designed it, and shaped it, and had the intelligence to be able to heat it and produce the pot, and not only that, they also had the ability to colour it and make it look beautiful.
Design ==> Designer.


Oh my god. (Not that I'm implying there is one) If it was possible to BAN gay stories that attempt to paint reality with substitutes, I would force all my family to vote for it. If you found something that was of another civilisation, then you wouldn't question it because you obviously found it in some hell hole. If I found the tree of knowledge, then I'd know of a God. But if I found more problems in my life that have completely been taken care of by me, myself & I, that's not a flippin design created from a flippin designer. It's called self-reliance.
lightbeyondthedark
zandore,

Well I hear what your saying... But never before when I am making something has it told me how to do it... As the artist it is my choice what to draw... What colors to use...

But thats just me... thumbsup.gif
Seraphina
QUOTE
We are the creation, under the creator... That is our place...


Wasn't there a big fuss lately about the right of clones, should we ever create them? huh.gif While it certainly could be argued that the clones were created purely by their "creator", it was understood that they should have the right to live...

So what you're saying is, we humans have much better principles that Adolf up there? huh.gif
zandore
QUOTE
But never before when I am making something has it told me how to do it... As the artist it is my choice what to draw... What colors to use...

Then listen with your eyes and not your ears. You might be amazed by what you do.
Seraphina
uh...before we start going off into some kind of conversation about the blight that is "modern art", perhaps we should keep on track with the topic...
zandore
Agreed
I was just tyring to covert some one innocent.gif
lightbeyondthedark
haha...

Oh save me zandore... lol


Kerkido
I love your avatar image, Seraphina.. It's the new pleasantry to accomodate the hassles of scrolling down.
Seraphina
.......okay.....


Anyway, returning to the world of theology for a moment...

Everytime I bring up the fact that God, if the bible is to believed, is a murderer the likes of which the world has never seen before or since, I hear the same thing "we can't understand how god's mind works."

I believe I brought up the fact that a kitten can't understand how my mind works, but does that give me the right to kill it...I believe that question was ignored...either that, or glossed over.

However, putting that aside for the time being, let's go back to god, and how we can't "understand" him...whether we can or not, we, as humans, perceive killing something as cruel....if you believe in god, then it stands to reason that you believe we think that because god gave us that particular moral tendancy. Whether we understand gods reasons or not are irrelevant....we percieve murder as cruel, and that is exactly what God has, according to the bible, done many times.

Saying people at the time of Noah's flood were "wicked" is no excuse...as I've said before, I find it hard to believe that the children of that time...or the babies...were "wicked". I find it hard to believe that the many millions of animals in the world that were not saved were "wicked".

I do not see any difference between God slaughtering people, and Hitler and Stalin slaughtering people...the only difference is that God did it on a much wider scale, and he did it while claiming that he loved the people he was slaughtering....either way, all three of them smack of absolute evil.

I read accounts of everything that God has, supposedly, done...and to me, he is quite clearly evil. I've yet to have his acts of genocide justified, or have I been given any reason to conclude that he isn't evil - creating something does not immedietly give a person the right to destroy it, or own it, or for that matter force it to worship you through acts of terrorism.
lightbeyondthedark
Seraphina,

Your theology is interesting, and you do speak quite elequently... But you and I don't look at this the same way, and that just fine...
What you call murder, I call judgement. I dont believe God fall under the laws of man.. When a man kills another man, thats murder...
The way you seem to think is that man can hold God accountable for what he does, and I don't believe that... We are not judges... Men should not judge eachother, let alone God.
And I only say we can't understand the way God thinks, because we can't... We are humans, with human minds and human intellect.. God is infinately wiser then we could ever dream of being.
You see God as evil for some of the things he has done, well thats your choice.. But I try to view God as I would pretty much any other ruler... Sometimes he makes decisions that people dont like, but it is for the greater good... Just because we can't see the reasons behind it doesn't mean they are not there.

But thats just what I think... thumbsup.gif
Seraphina
So you would support a ruler who slaughtered the entire population of his kingdom, safe for one tiny group, because the others didn't fall in line with his particular idealogy?
Nxt2Hvn
QUOTE(lightbeyondthedark @ Feb 1 2005, 04:34 PM)
Seraphina,

Your theology is interesting, and you do speak quite elequently...  But you and I don't look at this the same way, and that just fine...
What you call murder, I call judgement. I dont believe God fall under the laws of man.. When a man kills another man, thats murder...
The way you seem to think is that man can hold God accountable for what he does, and I don't believe that... We are not judges... Men should not judge eachother, let alone God.
And I only say we can't understand the way God thinks, because we can't... We are humans, with human minds and human intellect.. God is infinately wiser then we could ever dream of being.
You see God as evil for some of the things he has done, well thats your choice.. But I try to view God as I would pretty much any other ruler... Sometimes he makes decisions that people dont like, but it is for the greater good... Just because we can't see the reasons behind it doesn't mean they are not there.

But thats just what I think...  thumbsup.gif
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Very well said!!! thumbsup.gif

And to answer Sera... yeah.. I guess you could say that!
Seraphina
QUOTE
And to answer Sera... yeah.. I guess you could say that!


I'm sorry...but didn't you support going into Iraq to take out Saddam? huh.gif
lightbeyondthedark
QUOTE(Seraphina @ Feb 1 2005, 10:37 AM)
So you would support a ruler who slaughtered the entire population of his kingdom, safe for one tiny group, because the others didn't fall in line with his particular idealogy?
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Like I said, you and I don't even view in the same way... Where you see black I see white, and visa versa..

I have chosen to follow God wholeheartedly... I trust in him because I have faith in him... And my faith supersedes anything any person could call into question...

but hey, thats just me... thumbsup.gif
Nxt2Hvn
QUOTE(Seraphina @ Feb 1 2005, 04:42 PM)
QUOTE
And to answer Sera... yeah.. I guess you could say that!


I'm sorry...but didn't you support going into Iraq to take out Saddam? huh.gif
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Of course I do.... And I believe that God has his hands in what is going on in Iraq.... it is all a part of his Plan!

Look you don't understand why I believe the way I do... and I don't understand why you believe the way you do.

Actually ... your beliefs make my head swim wacko.gif ... as I am sure my beliefs do the same to you!

...and since you think God is a murdering God.... I don't think you will ever have to worry about spending eternity with him.
Seraphina
Well you see...that's the part that bothers me..."blind faith".

I absolutely detest any system of belief that requires someone to ignore the questions against it in order for it to fit...other Christians I've brought this up against say something along the lines of "Thinking about that kind of thing confuses me...I try not to."

What on earth is the point of putting faith in something that you can't trust enough to question? Believe me, I have no faith in science whatsoever...before I believe it, I want to see the evidence for it....I believe that very same system should be applied to any belief that a person intends to base their life around.

QUOTE
...and since you think God is a murdering God.... I don't think you will ever have to worry about spending eternity with him.


If that's your way of attempting a snide little "you're going to hell" comment, could you kindly not post here? This was a conversation between two intelligent, rational people a few moments ago.
lightbeyondthedark
Seraphina,

Oh, I have alot of questions for God... But I also accept the fact that I probably wouldn't understand the reasons even if they were told to me...
And what you call "blind faith", I call "true faith"... I give my complete trust in God, but that doesn't mean I dont have questions. I ask God about 100 questions a day, some are answered, some are not... But I always know that my faith is still true. I still know that no matter what questions I may have, and no matter what I dont understand, God does understand it all. He understand I have questions, he understands what people think, and how we are. I personally think God would be dissapointed with us if we didn't ask questions, its in our nature...

I also don't think Nxt2Hvn was saying your going to go to hell... But really if you think God is evil, why would you want to eternity with him?

just my opinions... thumbsup.gif
Nxt2Hvn
QUOTE
If that's your way of attempting a snide little "you're going to hell" comment, could you kindly not post here? This was a conversation between two intelligent, rational people a few moments ago.


Honestly ... I wouldn't think that me stating that you would be spending eternity with Satan would offend you.... but seeing that it does... I will retract!

(*Puts on intelligent hat again* rolleyes.gif )

I guess I can't explain what it is like to have "blind faith"... I just do .. and am pretty proud of it.

And I have questioned it in my past.... questioned it several times.. but the truth is I see God... in everything.... everthing I have... my wonderful life... the hard times he has brought me through... every day and every hour. Every time I have questioned it... he has shown himself to me in different ways... I am sorry but I just can't ignore that.

I like reading your posts on what you believe...(it does make me shake my head no.gif )... but the only thing I get from some of your posts... is that people like me .... who have blind faith .... are ignorant... or stupid.

I have read several books on other religions... and evolution... My Dad went to college and took several classes on these issues.... and I have read all of his books. Very intersting reads... but I still know God exists... and will always be here for me and for anyone who needs him.

But I have faith in God... and it is something that I cannot explain to someone that is just so hard core against seeing that.


Seraphina
QUOTE
But really if you think God is evil, why would you want to eternity with him?


If god isn't evil, I wouldn't want eternity with him tongue.gif You're a little too new to have heard my take on the afterlife. I don't actually believe in one obviously, however I believe that any place where "sin" doesn't exist sound altogether....dull tongue.gif

A lot of the stuff I like, or would like to do is sinful huh.gif I'd rather be in hell grin2.gif

However, we digress...

Nxt2Hvn interupted before you answered my earlier question....would you support a ruler who murdered those who lived in his kindgom, and spared only those who fit in with his ideals of right and wrong?

QUOTE
the hard times he has brought me through


Why do you believe god is responsible for getting you through hard times, but not for putting you in them?
Nxt2Hvn
QUOTE(Seraphina @ Feb 1 2005, 05:04 PM)
QUOTE
But really if you think God is evil, why would you want to eternity with him?


If god isn't evil, I wouldn't want eternity with him tongue.gif You're a little too new to have heard my take on the afterlife. I don't actually believe in one obviously, however I believe that any place where "sin" doesn't exist sound altogether....dull tongue.gif

A lot of the stuff I like, or would like to do is sinful huh.gif I'd rather be in hell grin2.gif

However, we digress...

Nxt2Hvn interupted before you answered my earlier question....would you support a ruler who murdered those who lived in his kindgom, and spared only those who fit in with his ideals of right and wrong?

QUOTE
the hard times he has brought me through


Why do you believe god is responsible for getting you through hard times, but not for putting you in them?
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I guess it is just what I believe.... my faith... and for the fact that I have had many more good times than hard times... and the hard times have always in some way or another made my life better .... I believe that the power of prayer has been the cause of this... God answers prayers... but in his own time... and I have learned that over the years.

lightbeyondthedark
QUOTE(Nxt2Hvn @ Feb 1 2005, 11:03 AM)
But I have faith in God... and it is something that I cannot explain to someone that is just so hard core against seeing that.
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Amen!

Its not something that can be explained easily... And I don't like how sometimes christians are called stupid or ignorant because we have faith... Alot of skeptics, I believe, get upset because they can't understand us or our reasons for our beliefs... Alot of people can't stand that we give trust to something they don't even believe is real...

but hey, just my humble opinion... thumbsup.gif
Nxt2Hvn
QUOTE(lightbeyondthedark @ Feb 1 2005, 05:19 PM)
QUOTE(Nxt2Hvn @ Feb 1 2005, 11:03 AM)
But I have faith in God... and it is something that I cannot explain to someone that is just so hard core against seeing that.
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Amen!

Its not something that can be explained easily... And I don't like how sometimes christians are called stupid or ignorant because we have faith... Alot of skeptics, I believe, get upset because they can't understand us or our reasons for our beliefs... Alot of people can't stand that we give trust to something they don't even believe is real...

but hey, just my humble opinion... thumbsup.gif
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Hey.. tis best to be humble!! thumbsup.gif
Seraphina
QUOTE
I guess it is just what I believe.... my faith... and for the fact that I have had many more good times than hard times...


I can't say I've really had any hard times at all....God must just adore my athiest, satan supporting veiw huh.gif

QUOTE
Alot of skeptics, I believe, get upset because they can't understand us or our reasons for our beliefs... Alot of people can't stand that we give trust to something they don't even believe is real...


Generally speaking, I believe we're more frustrated by religious people who compair their beliefs to ours...creationism to evolution for example - simply put, creationism isn't in the same league as evolution, and it certainly does frustrate and anger us when a baseless idea such as creationism attempts to be given the same credibility as a well established, and evidence provididing, scientific theory.

As a result of situations like the above, I don't deny...I hate religion. Factor in actions of fundamentalists (past and present), and I believe that religion has done far more harm to society than it has good...even today, religion is causing many people to keep their eyes and ears closed to evidence that promotes other ideas and knowledge about how we, and the world, came to be.

So yes, I don't like religion one teeny, tiny bit...but my take on religion isn't a whim, it's just a conclusion I've come to, just like every other one I've come to, upon careful examination of the world, and all the various facts leading me towards it.

Now, one more time, my question please tongue.gif
lightbeyondthedark
Seraphina,
I believe I gave you an answer to the question you asked me...

QUOTE(lightbeyondthedark @ Feb 1 2005, 10:47 AM)
I have chosen to follow God wholeheartedly... I trust in him because I have faith in him... And my faith supersedes anything any person could call into question...

but hey, thats just me...  thumbsup.gif
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thats my answer, and I'm sticking to it... thumbsup.gif
Nxt2Hvn
It is funny... how I don't get at all upset at what you believe.... I know you don't like to hear this... but it's not anger... but sadness that I feel for the non-believers.

I am not saying this to make you feel belittled or pittyed... just genuinely how I feel.

I guess that is another thing I don't understand ... the frustrations non-believers feel toward Christians.... and I don't compare my beliefs to yours.... I believe in creationism... and see evolution as an attempt to abolish creationism... and that is my conclusion.

And as far as you having not many hard times in your life... you are still young.... and be sure you will have your share!


Dezmond
Something really funny happened today at school.

An ex-girlfriend of mine is now pregnant (Not of me....)
She is 16

And she has a sister of 19 who now has 2 children. And you know what they parents did...

After the first child the parents prayed everyday that it won't happen again.
And within a year she was pregnant again.

The teacher that told us was really angry at me, because I really had a hard time stopping with laughing.
He asked why I laughed and I said..
''I can't believe how stupid that people can be''

And I was sned out of class, because the teacher got angry at me.
But it was so funny to hear. original.gif
Nxt2Hvn
QUOTE(Dezmond @ Feb 1 2005, 05:45 PM)
Something really funny happened today at school.

An ex-girlfriend of mine is now pregnant (Not of me....)
She is 16

And she has a sister of 19 who now has 2 children. And you know what they parents did...

After the first child the parents prayed everyday that it won't happen again.
And within a year she was pregnant again.

The teacher that told us was really angry at me, because I really had a hard time stopping with laughing.
He asked why I laughed and I said..
''I can't believe how stupid that people can be''

And I was sned out of class, because the teacher got angry at me.
But it was so funny to hear. original.gif
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WHAT?... Could we get anymore off topic here????? rolleyes.gif
Dezmond
It states why it is so hard to believe in God.

If he is so powerfull why can't he prevent another pregnancy....???
Nxt2Hvn
QUOTE(Dezmond @ Feb 1 2005, 05:57 PM)
It states why it is so hard to believe in God.

If he is so powerfull why can't he prevent another pregnancy....???
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How old are you? ... not to offend.. but I must know.

We have free will.... and if you play with fire ... you will get burned!

Has nothing to do with praying... it has to do with upbringing! thumbsup.gif
Seraphina
Light...mind if I call you light, it's much faster to type....that didn't answer my question. You said that you would hold god to the same yardstick as you would any ruler...I asked would you support a ruler who slaughtered his subjects?

The ruler in question does not have to be god...merely a ruler that you're holding up to that yardstick you mentioned before.
lightbeyondthedark
QUOTE(Nxt2Hvn @ Feb 1 2005, 11:59 AM)
We have free will.... and if you play with fire ... you will get burned!

Has nothing to do with praying... it has to do with upbringing! thumbsup.gif
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I agree with you Nxt2Hvn...

And just because God didn't answer that prayer, doesn't mean he couldn't have...
I bet when that second baby grows up he/she will be happy God didn't... And I am sure that the mother/grandparents will come to see the baby as a blessing in thier lives...

just my humble opinion... thumbsup.gif
lightbeyondthedark
QUOTE(Seraphina @ Feb 1 2005, 12:05 PM)
Light...mind if I call you light, it's much faster to type....that didn't answer my question. You said that you would hold god to the same yardstick as you would any ruler...I asked would you support a ruler who slaughtered his subjects?

The ruler in question does not have to be god...merely a ruler that you're holding up to that yardstick you mentioned before.
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Seraphina,

Yeah you can call me whatever suits you... Just as long as you call me... lol Light works just fine..
Ok, I understand your question... And first off, maybe I shouldn't have used that as an example... Because I can't compare a human ruler to my God... I was just simply saying that both make decisions that some dont except...
Would I follow a human ruler that slaughtered his subjects? No...
Would I follow a God that cast judgement down on his creations? Yes...

And thats just another faith thing...

just my humble opinion... thumbsup.gif
Dezmond
QUOTE(lightbeyondthedark @ Feb 1 2005, 06:08 PM)
QUOTE(Nxt2Hvn @ Feb 1 2005, 11:59 AM)
We have free will.... and if you play with fire ... you will get burned!

Has nothing to do with praying... it has to do with upbringing! thumbsup.gif
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I agree with you Nxt2Hvn...

And just because God didn't answer that prayer, doesn't mean he couldn't have...
I bet when that second baby grows up he/she will be happy God didn't... And I am sure that the mother/grandparents will come to see the baby as a blessing in thier lives...

just my humble opinion... thumbsup.gif
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I have to tell you that they put their daugther on the street because they were asshamed(don't know if it is spelled right) by here....

They won't do the same with their other daughter... at least not yet..

It is so much fun living in a religious village were most people are completly wacko and brainwashed.. wacko.gif
Nxt2Hvn
That is not all religions.... if I had gotten pregnant ... my parents would never have thrown me in the streets or disowned me....

I have very loving parents... and have always supported me.. and would have no matter what.

Has to do with the individual....

Seems that the religious views you speak of are not the norm here in the U.S.

But it is something you would have to experience for yourself.
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