Koch
When you read the Christian Bible you are supposed to find what you need, Not what someone else sees in it. My advice to you would be to find a Christian that you know or better yet a REAL Pastor or even a Rabbi since Christianity and Judaism are very much alike. Do not take one persons belief in this matter. Every person views Religion differently.

[quote=zandore,Feb 5 2005, 04:45 PM]
[quote]
Mekorig I think it is more about what is the best way and I agree with LBD 100%
and that is MY humble opinion.
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I agree whit you. LBD is, among the local christians, one (if no the) most centered and razonable of them.

That is why I respect him. He tells his opinions, keeps them short and does not ramble on about who knows what, and accepts that others have a view on things that are different than his.
How many of you Christians DO NOT see your self here. If you DO NOT then you might want to wise up if you want to teach the word of God.
To those of you that do: Sorry I did not mean any offence and please accept my apology.

Many times people are blinded by TOO MUCH light. They do use covering which have a small slit in them to keep too much light from getting to the eyes.

When I said everyone here does not respect God, I was including everyone writing on this thread. That was not an assumption, it is a Fact which was said to be error, WE ALL RESPECT God. No, You think you are the only one reading these words and respond as such.

And the Assumption now of ALL WILL is also not correct. The Assumption Freespyryt will is just a guess. She might not.

Now for a lesson: Speak for yourself. If you respect God fine. If you do not, say so. But don’t speak for everyone who has participated in this thread. For you do not know everyone’s minds. Some do not know how they feel about God themselves. Many harsh words have been spoken here about God, so an assumption everyone Respects God is wrong from the start.

I said everyone here does not respect God for the words which they wrote about how they feel. That does not mean everyone does not, It means some do not. All are not of one mind about how we feel about God.

Most of the people I assume on this thread are Adults. By age anyway. So the ways they choose may be influenced by what a person said. But the Choice still has to be their, and there are ways of searching out what another says.

One way is to search the Bible references that are given. At least you will know if they are correct as far as what is written there. And if you do not believe the Bible at all, Maybe you might want to read it to use it against Christians. Stones to throw. Christians have hard heads, Use big ones.

Many people heal, Some seem not to want to heal, they have to pick at the scab. Over and over. Free said she was raped many times when she was seven, How long has this scab been picked at? Many people want to forget and to move on. Or use what has happened to help them deal with other things which come into their lives.

I do not believe in what is called Christian Sound Doctrine. But I do know what it is. And it goes like this. Even if a Child is molested, That is not credited towards her salvation. It is not a “You suffered, so God will be good to you” type of deal.

You would still have to (I will use the word see, more then speak, or have it internally) see you are a sinner, See you have to forgive the one who hurt you (for if you forgive not others, neither will your heavenly Father forgive you) You will have to Believe in God and Jesus. You will have to repent. Or else you will be going to hell for eternity. THIS IS Christian sound Doctrine.

Now what is true is Jesus took all sin, He rendered to man His righteousness, So Free is saved by grace, and so is the man who molested her. All go to heaven

Ken

only the most general, basic beliefs are the same. other than that, they're almost opposite of each other. jews and christians interpret alot of the bible differently.

Thanks for the kind words guys...
Makes me glad to know I have the respect of some of my UM peers... And just know, the respect will be given right back to you...


LBD

Dear Mr. Ken,


You clever fox, you know where you are pushing this idea of christianity, don'tcha? Off its base, and further off into the east, into the folds of nihilistic religions! Perhaps the next generation will applaud you - if you manage to survive the present flock of believers... By the look of it, if you continue to write what you believe in, you are going to end up with a lot of mail under your door - in the form of letter bombs:)
Anyway, the thought is amazing, and now I know why you were speaking about a prevalence of christianity in 2029 - apperently you are discussing a different christianity altogether!
kudos
kochinmale

Your words ken? Please talk only about your self on this matter. You may not respect God but others DO. I may not believe in him "BUT I RESPECT WHAT HE/THE BIBLE STANDS FOR, WHAT HE/IT REPRESENTS" and no one will make me change my mind. How many other Christians on this forum feel the way you do? Not many if any I think. I feel sad for you ken, not respecting your own God.Isn't this what I just said to you? Learn your own lessons before you try to teach others. I will say it again so please quote me on it. I respect what God stands for. I may not believe in him but I still respect what gives a person hope. Is that why you had a post or two edited for sexual content?Have you been checking the verses after I found some that was wrong that you posted?Listen to what you are saying. You are not a Christian! Your own words do not believe in what is called Christian Sound Doctrine.But you don't believe in this remember?Please note "you do not believe in Christian Sound Doctrine"If people want to pick at scabs it is their choice, let them don't do it for them. GROSS
PS. Nate that sounded like ken talking so I stated it that way. But thank you for the correction any way

Well, isn't that great? I don't want to go to heaven if that S.O.B. is gonna be there. So he is miraculously saved? That monster? Monsters go to heaven?

This is another reason why I can't respect God. yeah, I said it. And I will say it again. I don't respect anyone if they don't respect me. And personally, He has given me a run for my money and left me in a gutter to rot. Well, needlesstosay His plan didn't work for me. I will kill the man who endured these scars on me, if he ever gets out of jail and tries to find me, you can bet your a$$ that I am gonna defend myself. If is my life over someone elses, damn right I am picking my life to survive.
I do on the other hand, believe that Jesus existed, but was he really son of God, or our savior. I am not too sure. A savior to die for our sins? Then that should eliminate all sins. If God is so perfect, he would have done it that way. If God was so perfect, he would have put his hand in the way of the hijacked planes and guided them to safety. Why didn't he stand on the shore and blow back the tsumani? Why didn't he put the hurricanes that hit the South east U.S. and put them in his perfect jars? If God was so perfect, why would he destroy so many lives that he created. Are we just Pawns on his game board?
Checkmate!

Free if I could have my way ALL child molesters and rapist would be in MY HELL. There would be no forgiveness, no redemption, no second chance. If you thought GOD or Satan had a hell......

It seems to me that people are so quick to judge and discard God... Yes bad things happen, God never said they wouldn't happen... People can't see past the things that have happened to them, its really quite selfish... Now please don't take that as me saying I don't feel sorry about peoples tragedies... But people get so caught up in saying "why me, why me?", that they really do forget its not all about you...
Things are hard, yes... They can be for everyone...
Things don't seem fair... True... But there is a old saying... "Lifes not fair." And that saying is very true...
There is always something to be grateful for, and it seems when something bad happens, all the good just disappears...
Something that always shows me Gods love, even when I am going through tough times, is the fact he gave us a choice... He didn't make us as robots to follow every command without question... We have the choice to love him, or hate him... The choice to listen, or the choice to ignore...
I will use this as an example...
What if the man who invented the blender (just a random invention) had given the blender the choice of what it wanted to do... (i realize a blender is not alive, just bare with me LOL) The blenders purpose is.. well.. blending... But what if the inventor said, "You have the choice. You can either exist for the purpose you were created, or you can do anything else you wish."
Now to me that show that the inventor loved his invention enough to give "IT" the choice... Just as God has done for us... (Hope that all made some sense LOL)

but hey, this is just my humble opinion...

LBD

LBD give this a thought....That inventor loved his invention so much the he destroyed it......Did that sound a little ...not right?

Not if the invention started being a wise ass...

zandore,

Ok... I hear what your saying...
But when people say, "Oh that is so terrible that happened" they are not seeing the whole picture... We as people are only a very small part of a much greater design, a design that we cant see or even understand..
Does not the inventor know better then the invention? I would say yes, but thats just me...
I can't explain Gods motives, but my faith tells me that God does everything for the greater good of everything, even though we may not see it... Some may question, "How can something terrible be for a greater good?" And thats a question I can't answer, because I can only see a very small part of the grand design...

just my humble opinion...

LBD

How can it be for the good of everything letting a little girl be hurt or killing 250,000 people?

zandore,

like I said, thats not a question I am qualified to answer...

LBD

Do you think God can make a mistake then change his mind?

zandore,

Truely, I do not believe God does make mistakes, although we may see them that way... But I do believe he can change his mind, unless it conflicts with a promise he made...

just my opinion...

LBD

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and....
Had god made man before and changed his mind because something did not work out? i.e. a mistake and cleaned house to try again.
Genesis 6:6
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth. and it grieved him at his heart. (KJV)
Did God think he made a mistake here also? Then go on to spare Noah and his family.

Just my opinion but still it sounds like a second thought to me.

In my bible this verse is worded differently...
Genesis 1:28
God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.

No God did not make the mistake... Unless you consider giving men free will a mistake? Men where the ones filling the earth with evil, and that is what grieved the lord.
Noah and his family were the only ones that God viewed as righteous. God told Noah to get ready for the flood some time before it happened, something like 100 years or so...

my humble opinion...

LBD

I should have said that I was using the King James Vesion. I put down how it is word for word. What VERSION do you use?

zandore,

I use the New International Version...


LBD

At least you know your Bible unlike someone else. In the KJV it is stated "replenish" and that helps me when I ask What religion or what Bible is the right one.

zandore,

good point... How do we know which bible or religion is the right one?
Well for me it all falls under what you are willing to give your trust too... There is no point in following something you wont honestly trust with all your heart...
And even I have doubts sometimes, I can't help that I'm human... Its in my nature to question things... But those are the times I turn to God even more.. He restores my faith, and he gives me wisdom to understand things better...


but hey, thats just me...

LBD

That is the "HOPE" I talk about. I just have no need of it for myself.

zandore,

there have been times in my life that my "hope" seemed to be the only thing I had... I would be more inclined to call it trust... I trust that all will be well... And once again that all trickles down into faith... And I have never felt that my "hope" has let me down before...
But I can understand your viewpoint... If "hope" is something you don't think you need, I wont dispute that...

thats just me though...

LBD

It is this kind of hope I know I don't need.

zandore,

sorry my bad... I should have said "know" instead of "think"...

LBD

Accepted.
Thats a fact Jack.

Kudos.

I am not pushing this believe into anywhere but into God’s Light, to see what Truth really is. Note that the Believe is summed up in Daniel 9:24 which had to be fulfilled the day of the cross as Jesus said in Luke 18:31. Daniel 9:24 has a SEAL, so the Disciples and Paul not seeing sin ended as accountable unto man is also established by God.

(DANIEL 9:24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon
thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of
sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in
everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy. (KJV)

(LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them,
Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by
the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)

The day of the cross also seen in Daniel as the Vision of the Evening and Morning which werefor MANY DAYS. Here as 70 weeks.

So what I am saying that Free and the man who molested her are both saved by grace, Jesus having taken all iniquity upon Himself in Isaiah 53:6, and rendering to man His righteousness in Job 33:26 accomplished this.

The Christianity I am referring to for 2029 ad is the Jewish nation seeing that Jesus is the Messiah in the TRUE LIGHT. What Christians see as Jesus is not in the TRUE LIGHT. Jesus is David’s son born outside wedlock, died 7 days after birth, Reborn at Bethlehem 1,000 years later to fulfill the law in Deuteronomy, (I did not paste the verse here, the Wording many offend many) or 10 100-year generations till a child born outside wedlock could enter the Congregation.

Zandore, I did not write that ZANDORE does not respect God, Understand that. Understand what EVERYONE on this thread refers to. Or 100% of the people do not respect God. Not everyone referring to each person, But the total of the people.

I did not know I had a post or two edited for sexual content. But that would not strike me as unusual. God uses that which is despised. Some of the Wording in Scripture offends many people. That is why I did not list Deuteronomy 23:2. Under Jewish law, a Jew reaching for a non-jew is not listed as a nice name. But it is all Scriptural. All has concepts. All need to be put into the Right context.

God often used what many would call nasty names. But most are likened to a person who LOVES EVERYONE. Most were likened to a Woman who loved everyone. Now, Who do you know who loves everyone? Sorry if Scriptural references offend the ones who control the board. For it is Bible verses I am talking about, and they are the Words God chose to inspire that are offensive.

(1CORINTHIANS 1:28) And base things of the world, and things which
are despised, hath God chosen, {yea, } and things which are not, to
bring to nought things that are: (KJV)

Now how do we talk about the Woman of Revelation chapter 17? Most Christians refer to her the way the Scriptures do, But that is a DIRTY word. God is trying to show us something about the person He is referring to. I am just discussing a passage and putting it into context.

I never saw you post a verse that needed to be corrected. Most I reference, I copy right from the KJV Bible. You have posted different interpretations of the meanings.

Christian Sound Doctrine does not have to be Truth. Christian sound doctrine does not go by Daniel 9:24 does it? Why not? that is one of the Jots and tittles Jesus had to fulfill.

I often write what others believe, and state that is just what it is. This is telling what Christian Sound Doctrine says. Now, If all the Churches which teach this is right, this is what Free has to do to be saved. I then wrote what truth was, and It is what Jesus did that saved her, and us.

Zandore, Christian Sound Doctrine is not Jesus took all sin, But you can have Him take all your sins by following what I had written earlier. By belief, acceptance, repentance, etc. I am saying that you can have no sin accountable unto you for any reason what so ever, Not non-belief, Not murder, Nothing, For Jesus took away the sin of the world and as accountable unto man, It is GONE.

Free, God took away sin accountable unto man. Jesus said that “those who are forgiven more, will loveth more.” So just how much love that is for those who hated, and hurt others is something we will just have to wait and see. And it is not like we have much choice in that matter.

And if we be pawns or not, it is His Game Board.

Fair? I thought that was an illusion dreamed up by Children.

How about the inventor loved the invention so much He gave it eternal life, But only allowed the invention to see a physical life within that realm?

Maybe God was missing 250,000 of His children and wanted them Home with Him. For sooner or later they would come home. For many it was quite quick. Many suffer for years with cancer. Which would you choose for the ones you love?

The Creation story is a Similitude for the day of the cross, Replenish the earth is for them. Jesus is made all things cursed, He is the Earth destroyed by fire (God’s word in Jeremiah 23:29). God scatters them as all forsake Jesus, then He gathers them all into the Body of Christ seen born the day of the cross in Psalms 2:6/7, added the heathens into the body in 2:8. So He REPLENISHED the Earth.

The day of the cross is as 3 pictures, God doubles twice to establish His words as truth, so He has to Scatter and Gather over and over. The Flood is one picture, Sodom and Gomorrah is another, the day of the cross being brought to pass is as the Third witness.

As far as Bibles. The King James version is quite accurate, Considering it was written in 1611. Some more information has been gotten on translations of some words. The American Standard or Revised Standard use more common English and checked the Ancient manuscripts as they wrote to double check the KJV.

It is the Paraphrase Bibles which changed each verse so they could own the Copyright that are not too accurate. God speaks in Similitudes, and Through Jesus in Parables so if they did not understand the meanings of the Similitude, the Paraphrase might be off.

One Consideration is which versions have a lot of cross references, Like Concordances, Computer programs which allow for quick searching. Even Pocket Electronic Bibles which allow for a lot of searching where ever you happen to be.

Remember in what ever one you choose, Try to stick to one version, So your memory will not be looking for a verse worded one way, in a version which has it worded in another way.

The KJV has about the most available. Free downloads of computer programs, But ones who own a copyright can charge anything they want to, to give you access to their software which they also have copyrighted.

One other way is to look at a story or passage you know, and see how it was written, Like the Story of the woman at th well in John chapter 4, Read the 23rd Psalm and see how that sounds in the different version. I have never seen an improvement over the KJV for that. KJV is hard to get used to, with the 1611 English, But once you do, You will learn to love it.

Ken

Ken,
While this is an interesting theory, thats all it is...
And I am sure it makes perfect sense to you, but to me not so much...
And before you go and post a reply that will take me an hour to read, please realize I really don't enjoy your lengthy posts...


But hey, thats just me...

LBD

AndThe truth is in your own words ken you "do not believe in Christianity. So why are you still trying to preach it?Now that you admit that you are a non-believer (NB) you still think you are going to heaven? You consider your self a prophet and the most holy? Isn't that is the thing that got Satan thrown out of HeavenAre you likening your self to a disciple now to?If there is a heaven Free will get there before you (if you do that is) and the monster that did that to her WILL NOT.That goes with something else you said.True Christians respect and have faith in the Lord God Amen.I write on this thread so do you, LBD, Free, and many others have. Who are you to say that "WE DO NOT RESPECT" anyone ken? You have on idea what we really think and feel. I have nothing but pity for you ken. I for one forgive you ken for your sins against me but I will not say if others will. And if you want to be a good Christian start by asking the lord to come into your heart and really mean it this time.

If the person is truely regretful for what he did to Free, he will be forgiven... Thats just what I think...

WHAT?!? Ken, seriously meng... That is messed up of you... You are trying to be the judge of the whole christian population... Stop it... Speak for yourself, and not for all christians, cause thats what it seems like you try to do...


but hey, this is all just my opinion...

LBD

LBD: This is what I have been trying to tell him and me a NB. Can you imagine that?See what I mean.Can you understand him here? LBD I know ken can only speak for himself but it is people like this that turn others away from any type of religion.
My opinion and thats a fact Jack

zandore,

I fully understand you on this matter, and I agree with you... I don't agree with the way Ken goes about things, and I certainly don't agree with some of the things he says...
I don't like standing against anyone, especially another christian... But it seems Ken is standing against everyone else, including Jesus... Now I could be wrong, but thats just how it seems to me...

just my humble opinion...

LBD

ps-
zandore,
oh boy, are we gonna get a post from ken later... lol

Afraid? I am not, I have my faith. If he is to blind to the Christian truth and the light of God than there is nothing we can do to change him unless he wants to.
ps- I agree....Lol

"What Christians see as Jesus is not in the TRUE LIGHT."
I don't see how Ken expects me or any other christian to listen to him or even value what he says when he is saying things like this...
How does anyone take him seriously as a christian when he says things like that?

I really think he needs to take a step down on that pedestal he put himself up on... He can't except that he doesn't know everything, and it really seems he can't have a christian disagree with him...

But This is just my opinion...

LBD

Now try a NB like me. You should look at his link that he has on his post if you think you have a bad(?) opinion of him now.

zandore,

which post of his? I really dont feel like looking all over to try and find it... could you maybe direct me a little... Thanks...

LBD

Sorry I meant his home page. Click on his name to see his profile then click his homepage

"Welcome to the Gospel according to Ken"... haha

I think it should be...
"Welcome to Kens Gospel"

hmm...


just my opinion...


LBD

I sent you a PM that I got today. What do you think?

Yes my friend we are at 100%
Got a rubber room?

haha... rubber room...

The truth might hurt but a rubber room wont!

Why do you yell? Is it because you're better than me?

Bizeebutt asks a good question CS... I have asked this question many times...
"how do you expect someone to take you seriously when you criticize them>?"
If you want to be taken seriously, you have to return the courtesy... And I think alot of people on this forum could take a lesson from this... All beliefs aside, a little more respect should be shown to one another..

Just my humble opinion...

LBD

Except he was also severely criticizing me, and in a loud and outrageous manner.

Not to say I didn't also criticize, but I'm merely pointing out what you seem to have suggest as not being actual.

Sorry CS if it felt like I was attacking you... I wasn't trying to make it seem that way...

And the remark I made about more respect being shown to one another, that was directed to everyone...

LBD

prove it, or prove that he doesnt exist, neither can be accomplished.