Like you said the CREATION of life, And Evolution as a theory as how life started is not a CREATION. In order to have a Creation, You need a CREATOR.

Evolution having started life is a chance happening which is impossible. God building an evolving process into His Created life is not only possible, It is what He did.

“Metal birds with wing that breath fire”, In the BIBLE? Give the book, Chapter and verse.

Lightbeyondthedark.

The thing I had mentioned was kind of like silly to Christians but believable unto those who do not believe in God. It was to send out billions of tiny spaceships with bacteria in them, into space, if they landed where it was habitable, then they could EVOLVE into a Human race, and I said we should put a Bible in the Spacecrafts so they do not all end up Atheists.

Now, Zandore with two tails thought there should not be a Bible in there with them so they have a Choice. But without a Bible, Where would a Choice be?, You got the picture yet? We are not talking of Human life on earth, But Humans which would evolve from the Bacteria (cute trick).

You want to take Zandore serious? Go for it. When I see him serious, I will act accordantly.

“Could that possibly be a prophecy about fighter jets or something?” Cute Light, How about getting it REALLY shown in the Bible before we try to see what it means,

Whoa, If we are wasting our time praying, Are you not wasting your time telling us not to?

But when You die, How will you cure the attitude adjustment that is coming upon you as you see those broken down gate in Heaven? And those who died before you.

Cure the Attitude first. So that cancer will not be so scarry.

The Gospel according to Matthew did not have to be hand written by Matthew, Just that he was the one who was telling of it. Everyone was not illiterate. Most of Paul’s letters were not written by the hand of Paul.

Zandore, You make a remark about Lucifer. In this THREAD.

QUOTE
Lucifer means Morning star. Jesus said “I am the Bright and Morning Star.”
Let me get this straight Jesus is Lucifer? 

Try hell as a prison.

You better hope if you kick the Habit, that the Nun in it turns the other cheek instead of decks you.

Someone please explain that one to Zandore, I am sure it went over his head.

Lightbeyondthedark wanted me to take you serious, But don’t worry, I did not take light’s suggestion serious.

Hell on earth? Think that one out, How about those who molest children, again and again, and never get caught on earth,

The thing I had mentioned was kind of like silly to Christians but believable unto those who do not believe in God. It was to send out billions of tiny spaceships with bacteria in them, into space, if they landed where it was habitable, then they could EVOLVE into a Human race, and I said we should put a Bible in the Spacecrafts so they do not all end up Atheists.

Mekiorig.

I see many posts on this forum I jump over, I assume your mouse can travel faster then the speed of page down? If you do not like what I write, Then maybe I was not intending it for you as I typed it. And if things in the Bible bother you, Maybe you ought to keep away from threads which have the word GOD in the Title. OR? Maybe God dragged you here. He is tricky like that.

PS. After the Boring, I put in a few seeds and go BORE another whole. It is called Planting. Works miracles. And we do not need a NEW Messiah, Jesus does just fine.


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First Ken1Burton, its Mekorig, no Mekiorig.

Second: I have seen the light of the Lord!!! Yes, because i was lurking the Spirituality & Skepticism forums,i was looking for the LORD!!! and Ken1Burton show me that fact! Aleluyah!!! praise Ken1Burton, the new herder of souls!!.....errr, no.
I lurk ( yes, i lurk mujajajaja) these forums because of: a) Its very funny to read things like Ashley or antiaging or you post. because i have found a site where i can discuss whit religious people and confront our ideas in a pacefull enviaroment. Sadly, people like you ruin everything and try to back their babling whit endless tons of Bible ( or Coran) scriptures... not even other christiansstand you.

Third: Is going to grow a plant in me? Can i become like the Ghoul in Fallout 1 that have a mini bonsai growing in his head??


Get a life Ken1Burton, or get laid, or just collect soda bottles. Just dont bother the rest of the world.
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I would rather skip along the stars in the universe than have to spend eternaty listening to his obnoxtious rambling. I can handle LBD thou.
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(I don't shun you LBD for your beliefs becasue you don't force the belief onto others. and your words are very sincere regardless if I (or anyone else) believes in them or not.) And you don't get upset with the athiests on here and try to bring them into christianity or start  wars with words like two of the others on here. (we all know who they are)
And that is my humble opinion. lol. (I love that quote of yours!)

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(Freespyryt24 @ Feb 14 2005, 01:16 PM)
I would rather skip along the stars in the universe than have to spend eternaty listening to his obnoxtious rambling. .....

(Freespyryt24 @ Feb 14 2005, 01:16 PM)
..... I can handle LBD thou.

Aww... Its nice to know I can be handled... lol 

Wait, whats that supposed to mean? Are atheists somehow inferior to Christians?
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Actually yes I did... But I am not sure about it... Still giving it thought...
Why? You think I should?

OMG... LOL (really made me laugh)

Wasn't thinking of it like that...
Now I am the one blushing... lol

That will have to be entirely your choice my friend.

GOOD I did what I wanted to do.  
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Yes it is my choice... But some choices are not easily made...

~peace

Don't let one (Or two people) turn you from your calling what ever it may be.

AMEN
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Hotoke what would you do if you were going to be nailed to a cross? Run? I heard something about that , It could have been his brother James.
Sophika: God is a self admitted vengeful/angry God.
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I am very open minded. But not about all things.

I can not get down to the level of man, Once you add the cubit, You have it for eternity, It is like putting your hand to the plow, There is no looking back.

Light, You have read Daniel 9:24. He makes and end of sin, and brings in everlasting righteousness, Does that not say something? That is a prophecy concerning Jesus, and it had to be fulfilled when Jesus went up to Calvary.

I am striving to be like God, I just do not want to take over in place of God. God is merciful, I can strive for that, God is long suffering, I can strive for that. God is love, We all can strive for that.

You do have plants growing, They are called HAIRS. Get tweezers and a ice pick and you can move them around if you want.

Lightbeyondthedark? Your using Honey to catch flies, then talking of puking up?

hold-up, couldn't not reply to this! it was eating at me!

um, God, in my oppinion, did not say there is a hell. a bunch of bastards in charge said there was to scare people, so they could get them to do what they wanted them to do. fear is a very powerful weapon.

if theres a god, i'd like to believe he'd have no use for a 'hell', if he did, i wouldn't worship him for an instant. if i find out there is, i'll tell him to his face he's an ass.
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Well I would force things down a person’s throat. We all do, Ever give a child medicine? It is to make them well. So is the Gospel to make them well. Sickness comes in many forms.
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ok, i respect your oppinion   but if you don't mind i'd like to discuss this a little...

you say that gos said there is a hell, thats why you believe there is. is that the only reason? am i correct in saying the only reason you infact believe in a hell is because you believe god said so? if so, is the reason you believe he did is beause the bible says so? if so( ) let me ask you a question-have you ever considered that someone might have abused the belief of god to keep people under control? that they wrote there's a hell to keep people afraid?

in my oppinion you shouldn't take the bible too seriously as you can't trust that whoever wrote it had completely good intentions in doing so, they might have been using christianity to their advantage.

think about it a little, cos it seems from your post(no offence here ) that you're simply excepting things you've been told, instead of searching for your own truth. think about this god you believe in...you know him in your own heart, no?

does he have need for a 'hell'?  sending someone to hell is not forgiving them, is it? does he not understand human character? when someone commits a 'sin', does he not understand why? and in understanding, forgive and want only to help them back on the right track, instead of throwing into a pit of fire and pain? is it really justified? think about it...he created us, no? we're his children, no? why would he punish us for being what he himself created? he gave us free will, no? and so, wouldn't he know the consquences of doing so? are we not simply learning our lessons the hard way? he knows us better than we know ourselves, no? and so knows how we think...knows that many need verification...demand proof...why on earth would he punish someone for that? they were born that way...surely he understands, that before i'd put faith into any belief i'd need reason to! i can't just believe there's a god because a book says so! thats not fair! i need to see the truth for myself! would he not understand this?

just think, an all-loving, all-forgiving, all-knowing god would have no use what-so-ever for a fiery pit of anguish!  i think whoever wrote the bible was tellin a few tall-tales, and if you think about it carefully my man, contradicts itself over and over again. find your own truth.

I am very open minded. But not about all things.

The Scriptures are a positive. Those being silly,

Spreading out in space? Not for a thousand years. And tens of thousands of years in the Journey.

I can not get down to the level of man,

I am striving to be like God,

Use Young adults which can kick their teeth in. In an act of love for the person to help change their ways. Positive action.

Stellar. This is talking about Bacteria evolving into a Human race, A Atheist might believe this,

Mekorig.

You do have plants growing, They are called HAIRS. Get tweezers and a ice pick and you can move them around if you want.

I understand a lot of people like to see the posts where people argue over issues, So I have no problem with it,Fact, I like the idea that God hands out Box Seat tickets to those so entertained.

I can not get down to the level of man,

I am striving to be like God,

I do not worship RIGHT. Many do, thinking that doing RIGHT gets them into heaven. I know I get there if I am murdering a person as I die, if I am cursing God as I die, If I reject everything Jesus did,

The Plants growing is a response to my being BORING, I bore holes then plant seeds, I just explained that we do have plants growing on our body, Hairs are a type of plant. Now, Did that explain the ROOT of the Matter?

Like the Metal Birds we are still waiting for the location of.

okay, but i still don't fully understand why you believe there's a hell. how can you be sure those hands were infact guided by god? you can't, that's why i view it suspiciously

that may be, but i still don't see why there'd be a hell in the first place...

maybe he does have to prove himself to us..? he wants our love? worship?  that's alot to ask for, esp. when there's no verification he even exists. 

it's not a question of faith, as you can't really know if there's something there to have faith in,

unless of course you have experienced a miracle, that can only be explained by divine intervention, but how many times does that happen? and that's only verification for that one person or persons involved, how about everyone else? they still have no grounds to build a faith on.

i guess i might just sway a little more towards there being a god than not...but i guess thats down to the fact that i hope there is...

ah well, i guess i'll get my confirmation when the time comes!   god give me patience  
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Theory or no theory, my point here is that it took scientists a hell of a long time to discover it and yet in the Quran it has already been written. There are still many other things written in the Quran that are not understood BUT as time goes by and scientist discover more and more I'm sure it will unearth the grim reality that these are the true words of GOD, because we both know that no Human was intelligent enough to make such things up 1400 years ago.
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Lightbeyondthedark.

The Plants growing is a response to my being BORING, I bore holes then plant seeds, I just explained that we do have plants growing on our body, Hairs are a type of plant. Now, Did that explain the ROOT of the Matter?

Well I would force things down a person’s throat. We all do, Ever give a child medicine? It is to make them well. So is the Gospel to make them well. Sickness comes in many forms.

So take and eat the little book, it will be sweet in thy mouth, but make thy belly bitter.

Do you know you sometimes have to force feed a starving person? They do not know how much they need the food, Once they get some, they want more. Many do not know that the Scriptures are, Just what they have been told they are. Not all that is told is in the Bible is there. Like the Metal Birds we are still waiting for the location of.

But I have learned that, in this religion, one is only allowed to love thy neighbor if they are another Catholic or Christian. If they have differeing beliefs than you, then they are heathens and/or need to be saved..
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As a christian I feel that hell really is the eternal separation between mankind and his Creator. And that separation is a choice of free will we all must make in our life time however short or long is granted us.
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Anyone that taught that this was the way a christian was meant to live was very mistaken...
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." -- JOHN 13:34
Words spoken by Jesus... He loved everyone... No matter what they believed... As he loved everyone, so I also love everyone...

just my humble opinion...

LBD
~peace
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If all those who are Christians believed as you do, then there would not be bombings at abortion clinics, there would have never been witch burnings or the Inquisition, nor the Crusades.

The world would be a more peaceful place if all would follow that one statement rather than saying," well you don't share my beliefs, therefore you must be a heretic and thus must perish."

You and those that you know may live this way, and that is noble. If all those who are Christians believed as you do, then there would not be bombings at abortion clinics, there would have never been witch burnings or the Inquisition, nor  the Crusades.

The world would be a more peaceful place if all would follow that one statement rather than saying," well you don't share my beliefs, therefore you must be a heretic and thus must perish."
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I agree with you but "All Religions would have to follow that statement.
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All in the name of just one God.I agree with you but "All Religions would have to follow that statement.
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Anyone who uses God to justify their terrible acts is using God to hide their own motives...

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But, what if to say you ask someone who just killed in the name of God, Yahweh or Allah or even Vishnu what their motive was, and they honestly answered you it was to 'kill the infidel in the name of [insert god name here]'. What if they truely believed that it was right to kill those who did not share their beliefs and it was not some other unsaid motive?
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Hi, I'd just like to say that GOD sends trials upon many people to see who is best in conduct and which of his servants believes in him. Always remember that GOD never puts any soul through trouble and hardships that would be a burden too great to bear. He probably wants to test you like he does many people, there are some he gives a life of prosperity and success YET they do not remember GOD with gratitude and appreciate his mercy, and then there are people like you he gives a life of sorrow and hardships to see if you believe in GOD and remember him during such times and how you cope with the situation. It may seem all a bit confusing and I am not saying you have to believe in any religion or GOD, that is totally upto you BUT have a look at the following scenario:

Consider this : An archaeologist digs deep into the desert sand and finds a piece of an old clay pot. After his investigations, this archaeologist can tell us, from this little old piece of dusty clay, so much about the civilisation that existed thousands of years ago that produced it; he can tell us about the types of ovens, temperatues, and dyes that they worked with, the raw materials that they used, and thus assess the level of their artistic skill and technological ability, etc. All this from a small piece of clay lying in the desert.
Did this archaeologist ever see the civilisation that produced this pot ?

How does he know that it ever existed ?

He knows because he saw that the piece of clay was produced by someone who designed it, and shaped it, and had the intelligence to be able to heat it and produce the pot, and not only that, they also had the ability to colour it and make it look beautiful.

Design ==> Designer.

To the archaeologist the existence and intricacy of the piece of pottery is conclusive proof of the existence, intelligence and ability of the people who made it.

Look around you: at the beautiful sunset on a summer evening, at the moon and the stars on a cloudless night, at the water that you drink, at the trees and how they grow from tiny seeds.

Think about yourself: your eyes with which you see, your ears with which you hear, your tongues with which you taste and talk, your hands and your feet, your heart and your brain.

Consider how these things are so complex in themselves and yet work together in such perfect harmony.

From the movement of the galaxies to the complexities of the interaction of molecules, from the dynamics of eco-systems to the intricacies of DNA, all lead to the obvious fact of the existence of the great Wisdom, Knowledge and Power that allows our Universe to exist and function.

To any perceptive person the existence and intricacy of creation is conclusive proof of the Existence, Knowledge and Wisdom of the One who creates, organises and sustains it.

Most people naturally recognise the existence of the Creator, and we find reference to the Creator in all cultures and religions. Even the atheists, communists and (disbelieving) scientists cannot avoid this reality, but avoid the term 'creator', for phrases like 'Mother Nature' and 'the amazing way nature has designed...'

How strange in the face of this, that many today reject the belief in the existence of the Creator. Perhaps this is due more to fashion and the desire to justify a materialistic attitude to life rather than real observation and comprehension of reality.

Something stranger still, and perhaps another reason for the trend to deny the Creator, are those who claim that a man, or men, who walked on the earth, breathed air, who had bodies and souls subject to the Laws of the Universe, are the Creator, or manifestations of the Self-Subsistent One.

This is of course a complete contradiction in terms. Something cannot be the Creator and created at the same time, needing air, food and drink and being self-sufficient, being temporary and eternal!

If you are one of those who believe that a man such as Buddha, or Krishna, or Jesus is the Creator and Controller, then think again.

We were created from a drop of despised fluid, in which was a microscopic sperm, which in turn fertilised a microscopic egg and we grew in our mother's womb in stages predetermined, over which we had no control. We came from our mother's womb, urinating and defecating, needing constant attention and care. Without food we will die, without air we will die ... and then such a one is God?

Indeed any intelligent person would recognise exactly how dependant life, the universe and everything is on its Creator. Our dire need for His help makes itself plain in times of great distress.

Imagine yourself in an aeroplane and you know it is going to crash...

Who do you turn to for help then ?

Or on a ship in the sea, thrown helplessly up and down by towering waves ...

There will have been a situation at one time or the other in your life when you called upon your Creator alone, forgetting everyone and everything else, hoping, trusting, wishing that the Being you know in your heart and soul that has power and control over all things would help you. The only One you know can save you!

O creature of God, contemplate upon these verses:

Behold! In the creation of the Heavens and the Earth; In the alternation of the night and day; In the sailing of the ships through the Oceans for the profit of mankind; In the rain which God sends down from the skies, and the life that He therewith to an earth that is dead; In the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the Earth; In the change of the winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth -Indeed these are signs for a people that are wise." [The Qur'aan 2:164]
"It is He who has made the sun a shining glory and the moon a light of beauty and has measured out their stages, that you might know the number of years and their reckoning.Allah did not create this but in Truth. He explains His signs in detail for people who understand." [The Qur'aan 10:5]

"He has created the heavens and the earth with Truth. Far is He above having the partners that they ascribe to him. He has created mankind from a sperm drop; and behold this (same) man becomes anopen disputer! And the cattle, He has created them for you; in them is warmth (warm clothing) and numerous benefits, and of them you eat." [The Qur'aan 16:3-5]

"Blessed be He who sent down the Criterion to His servant that it may be an admonition to all creatures. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth; no son has he begotten, nor has He any partner in His dominion; It is He who created all things and gave them their due proportions.Yet they have taken besides Him gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor do they control life nor death nor Resurrection." [The Qur'aan 25:1-3]

"Were they created by nothing or did they create themselves? Or did they create the heavens and the earth ? No, they have no firm belief." [The Qur'aan 52:36]

"He it is who enables you to travel through land and sea, until, when you are in the ships and they sail with a favourable wind and you are glad about that. Then comes a stormy wind and the waves come to you from all sides and when you think that you are encircled by them, you call upon God making your faith pure for Him alone saying :'If You deliver us from this we shall truly be grateful.' But when He delivers you, behold! you rebel in the earth wrongfully. O mankind, your rebellion against God is only against your own selves - a brief enjoyment of this wordly life, then in the end unto Us is your return We shall inform you of that which you used to do." [The Qur'aan 10:22-23]
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But even if you were to take religion out of the equation I can't think of a better way to live then to love one another...

What if they truely believed that it was right to kill those who did not share their beliefs and it was not some other unsaid motive?

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Hoagy ?????
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Lightbeyondthedark.

We do not shove acceptance of the Gospel, But I do use any opportunity to show what is truth. For most reject the Gospel because what they think it says, and that is not always correct. They do not reject God as much as reject what they believe is the entire package which all has to be accepted.

I will try with my whole heart to see they have the correct pieces of the puzzle. But that is with Millions giving them the wrong pieces. So I may appear a little more aggressive to many, I just see it as trying harder to have them with the information they need to make a CLEAR choice.

And as far as the final choice, It has to be from their heart or it has no value. It is not to get things, or to avoid punishment, But to come because they see a love relationship between themselves and God. And part of FREEwill is with nothing as an incentive. Just because they desire it.

So who then really is trying to shove Christianity down anyone’s throat? Is it not the preachers of end times coming? Is it not those who speak of Revelation as God’s wrath coming upon earth? Is it not those who say Jesus is coming again to Judge the World? Is it not those who say there is still a hell, and you might go there if you do not meet certain requirements.

And it is YOU and not I who preaches there is a Hell, and it is OPEN FOR BUSINESS.

Hell ended the third day, it was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sin. The fire is that hell is part of God’s word like as a fire. It is the FEAR FACTOR which is trying to shove the Gospel down other’s throat, for the message they speak is you have no choice but to go to hell if you do not do as we tell you. Which is ERROR.

“ Jesus or Hell” was One man’s choice, and Jesus chose hell and saved us all. A Choice he made out of His love for Mankind.

Try taking away a Cubit? Not Scriptural, Adding one is. The Angels left their former estate, or went from man to angel status, So man was there FORMER estate.

As a christian I feel that hell really is the eternal separation between mankind and his Creator. And that separation is a choice of free will we all must make in our life time however short or long is granted us.

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