For all non-Americans .. as you watch this try to put yourselves in our shoes.. and maybe you will see why I feel some of the ways that I do about the war.

9/11 Flash

I used to have a vid that I created here, but I guess in the change over it was lost. I'll see if I can upload it again.

No offense but, you guys overreact too much. It's not as worse as the tsunami disaster. And it's not like it's the saddest thing that happened over the history. (I am not saying it wasn't sad but not the worst)

Thank-you for reminding us

Yes it was worse than the Tsunami, because it was premeditated evil. The Tsunami was a natural disaster. I will not call you a name.

And it damn sure was the saddest and most tragic thing that has ever happened in OUR history. What about YOUR history.....name an event worse!

Thanks for that response. Kept me from having to type it.

Your right. It is more that we were shocked that this happened on our soil. And just as in Spain, the event, for a short period of time, united the country.

The video I did, for those who remember it. Showed both sides of the war.

Have pride in your country, your race, color, creed, religion, and national heritage.
But also allow others to have pride of their own.

Unless you all have a rocket in your back yard, we are all stuck on this little ball called earth. We had best learn to live together, or die together.

Nuff rant. Carry on Montague.

I was fine throughout that flash... until I saw the images of the people jumping from the building.

I think it really is true that we supress memories that we don't want to remember, because I remember watching that on TV when it happened, and that was far more disturbing to me than anything else... You were literally watching the death of an individual. *gets the shivers* I never EVER want to see anything like this happen again, much less on American Soil.

Go Get Em Bush.

Im sorry!? We OVERREACT? A single thread on 9/11 is posted and you think we're overreacting? Can you seriously imagine what was going through those peoples minds in NY? They're in the US, the biggest superpower... they didnt expect to get attacked in such a way! They thought they were safe, and they see a symbol of the USs pride being destroyed infront of them. We're overreacting? The tsunami was worse, yes, but simply because it was worse in terms of death toll doesnt mean that we're overreacting by posting 1 thread on 9/11! And theres a difference, the region around the tsunami was a hotspot, and it was natural. 9/11 was an act of evil... intentional mass murder. If anything, YOU are UNDERreacting.

wow...that about sums up that video.

I can barely stand to even look when it shows those people jumping..it just REALLY hits something...


and "cutycub"..that was a VERY uneeded post, all your doing is starting a flame war.

what about all the innocent civilians in irag that are being killed and bombed too? this has been going on a hell of a long time, and it doesnt seem it will end... terrorism begets terrorism.
as bad as this is.. horrible things happen all over the world, and have been happening for years.. and to keep up with this so called war against terror, is just madness.. hatred will always be there.. there will always be someone else to step up to the mark and fill another shoes... if you cant forget, its about time you started to forgive.. because not all ppl from iraq, afghanistan, or any other middle-eastern country is a terrorist.
as horrible as this may sound, its time to stop dredging up bad memories and get on with it.. remember the ppl, not the incident.

steller..if your pride of your country is held with in a building, or any structure.. then i do find that to be very sad... and i think you'll find that america is not the biggest superpower.. it is about time that americans get over their superiority complex and learn that the world is one... america is NOT the best nation... the WORLD is the best.

the region was a 'hotspot'? in which way? no one knew that an earthquake of that magnitude would hit... or cause such catastrophy.. so yes it is much worse, as these countries have not only gone back at least 2 generations.. but will take a long time to get back on their feet, and have tourism starting up again.

let this hatred go everyone.. move on.. embrace each other as family and get over this "im such a victim" crap because you are only a victim if you allow it

While 911 was the most shocking and saddening thing in that manner that I have ever seen, I feel its in bad taste to compare disaster and ranking which ones are worse then others. All disasters are... disasters. I agree with Joc, that this was premaeditated evil, which made it a barbaric act, not just a disaster.


However, I do not agree with someone making a post saying what this one was to say. "Try to imagine what its like to be us"..... I hate to say it, but where are the posts for the millions who died in Serbia.... Where are the posts saying the same thing, for the est 15,000 Iraqi civilians killed in this war, which was to free them.

In short, there aer many people around the world who are vitctims of Terror, on sometimes a daily basis, and I feel maybe you should include their voice in your thoughts.

Well said Sub and T-I-Double "ga" - Er...

I'm not going to completely renig my statement however...
I think that what we Americans are trying to say is that we are so sheltered in our nation, we expect a certain level of protection and stability in our lives. It is this stability that we thrive on... and what makes our country so great! People actually DO want to move here because our great nation affords its citizens many opportunities that are oppressed in other places. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not at ALL saying that America is the ONLY great place to live. So maybe we do take for granted our safety and welfare, but we come to expect these things because of the way our country is set up and run. 9/11 definatly brought us (as a nation) back to our senses because now we realize that we CAN be vulnerable, we are NOT invincible, and there ARE people out there that hate us.

The sad thing is... we still sometimes fail to think outside our borders. Its so easy to forget when we are so comfy where we are.

I don't even know what to say in this thread. Watching that brought me back to a place in my heart that was not ready for visitors....

Could we confine the America bashing to any thread but this one? Tainting this just feels wrong to me. That goes to American die-hards that say this is what the war in Iraq is about as well.

I ask humbly that UM stays a forum-wide peace on this thread alone. If you want to flame this subject, please, start a new thread. I don't ask much of my friends or opposition here........Please don't make this one ugly.

Yup Sometimes you get the feeling from some of these 9-11 posts that the US is the only country that's ever had a terrorist attack inside it's borders. I don't like it when people keep ramming 9-11 down your throat, because it's numbing, in a way. Seeing these poor people reduced to a sound bite to forward someone's agenda, is just disrespectful and wrong. We all know what happened, the images are permanently burned in our minds, and no one will ever forget, regardless of how many times it's waved in our faces.

I'm sorry, but using 9-11 to justify the war in Iraq is irresponsible and just plain bad form. There have never been any proven links between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaida, there were never any weapons of mass destruction, and the war seemed poorly planned and rushed to the table, in my opinion. President Bush screwed up royally on that one, and you just keep going back to the well with the 9-11 clips. Please, please give these people some dignity and quit showing their deaths to justify the Bush administration's botched foreign policy.

Now that I've got that out of my system, we are at war. None of the arguments for or against really matter, it is what it is, and I want the United States to win, because regardless of whether I agree with the guy in charge, it's still my home, my cousin is over there, and I want him coming home safe. He's doing his job, and I'm proud of him for that. Same for all our troops.

Well, that didn't take long. If I were a betting man I would have lost money in Vegas regaurding the poster and the content.

Well there you have it, tainted. I try to be civil and ask little but I am not popular enough to do that.

I'm sorry, but where was the flame in my post? I expect some backlash, because of my position on the war, but in no way did I intend to flame the thread. I shall edit and remove my reference.

Tainted...was the word I used and that was in reference to your "911 getting shoved down our throats" and turning this thread towards a defense against a false justification regarding the war in Iraq.


Reread my post post or perhaps I did not define my simple request in understandable terms. If so I could edit it to make it easier to understand.

Like I said I don't ask much.

That was very well put together.

I agree that the photos and images of the people jumping from the top floors is the most powerful...I remember shortly after 9/11 going through a bunch of photos on a website about what had happened, and it had all of those photos of the people jumping. Geez...I've been to the observation deck of the tower, and it is a long way down, that is a heck of a long time to think about what is happening to you. I do not know if it beats getting burned to death, but I would hope that I never half to make a decision like that.

I don't know why those images out of all of the images hit me so hard. I think it had something to do with how the people were dressed; business suits, skirts...they were just regular people that got dressed that morning like they had every other day to go to work; they weren't soldiers that signed on for hazardous duty...just people that pushed papers and went to work and looked forward to the weekend like most do.

At some point they came to the realization that they were trapped and that no matter what they did they were going to die. They could see the smoke and flames and feel the heat from the fire and they just knew that their lives had come to an end. Rather than face slowly burning to death they opted to step out of a broken window and fall a thousand feet or so. I doubt they felt anything, but they sure did have several seconds of freefall past the windows of their own building to contemplate life on the way down.

To start out your day like every other day before it; getting a cup of coffee, chat with the fellow workers on the way to your office or cubicle or whatever...check your email, think about where else you'd like to be rather than at work in front of a desk. To sit there daydream about your spouse or your kids while you are trying to get into work mode only to be interrupted by a huge explosion and a bone jarring rattle below you. To see smoke and flames filling the offices and rolling up the windows you stare out of everyday while you daydream. picking yourself up off the floor and going to a fire exit only to see more smoke and flames; more than you know that you could live through...run to the next corner of the building to get to the stairs and seeing more smoke and flames and hearing the screams of the people below you as they burn to death. there is no power, so the elevators won't work. The fire is getting worse and you can see that there is no way down.

You finally know how your life is going to end. Here. Now. Do you panic? Do you give up? Your mind finally fully comprehends mortalitity, but only now it is too late to take advantage of that knowledge. Time is short, the heat gets worse; almost unbearable. You go to an open area where the wall has fallen away and fresh air is available, to breath, to think. Standing on the edge of the wreckage looking down at the street below with nothing between you and it but 900 feet of air. The heat starts to burn your skin, an unbearable pain, there is no hope for rescue, no second chance, no helocopter with a rope. Just you and your memories and regrets. standing there until the pain of the fire overwhelms your fear of falling to your death and you simply shift your weight forward. Just enough to place your center of gravity past the edge of the windowpane. 3 or maybe 4 seconds of terror till the end of your life. And you are fully aware of that fact. All the way down.

congulation, all you did was make people all way around world think American consider their life more important than any other countries. Honestly I was really pissed off at terrorist but at same time I feel so sorry for every innocent people in middle east at same time. If you would keep a open mind and spend just ONE day with middle east people who aren't anti american, you will see how friednly and nice they are. They are surprisely easy to get along with!

I am blown away by you sometimes, Fluffy.

Half the peole that were working in TWC the day it was attacked were not American. Keep that in mind.

Edit; besides, this thread is not about hating anyone. This is not a thread to attack the middle east in any way, shape or form. Please watch video and read posts. Thank you.

thanks for that cobolt..... when i was travelling around nz with mt boyf.. we bought a car from a hostel from a young iraqi man... he was regretfully going back home out of duty.. his duty to his country making him inlist in the army for two years.
he was very sad to go as he loved being away from the war and unhappiness of his country, and wanted to study to be a veterinarian... i dont know what happened to him.. i hope he is alright and he got what he dreamed for..

edit; btw girty good save on your edit...

How do you figure?

Btw, that was meant to be a complement.

Fluffy, because whenever something happen to american, american want all world to feel sorry for them. But when something happen in other country they just shrug it off. Or that is how it seems most of the time.

I never mentioned an American...there were all kinds of people in those buildings and planes, not just Americans.

I don't see how what I said could make anyone think that I think that an American life is more important than any other...

I am confused

Me too..

um ok. Can I assume you are not being hateful and mean? I hope so.

What I mean is if it wasn't just american life then why don't they have rest of the world to help them make decide on this? I don't see Spain send militaries to Afghan to hunt down Osama, I don't see that many countries doing the same at all. If it was that SO bad then why do we have to put up a such post? I don't see how rest of the world couldn't be as upset as american while American expect them all to be really upset and still living in the past. I don't get it at all.

While I also dont want this thread getting out of control... considering the original post brought up this being the reason they have views on the war, I cant see how Snuffy saying the opposite viewpoint and post is any worse of a post then Nxt2Hvn's.... In fact I think snuffy said exactly what you said, in stating that we should remember this for what it was and not make it political.....

Cobalt, I dont think this thread is the time or the place for this arguement.... Plus I dont think anywhere in the world had a problem with the US going into Afghanistan, in fact some of the people I know in the Australian armed forces are still over there.....

I think I may be missing something as I am not seeing the connection between your complaint and my post, but that is okay; you are entitled to your opinion.

it was to the fact that you added a not to your edit.. and saying "Half the peole that were working in TWC the day it was attacked were not American. Keep that in mind."

thats why i said good save.... it could have incited a more heated debate.. and looked like you only cared that americans were harmed.. and no one else.. not trying to be mean at all.. just pointing out

god i couldnt even watch the whole thing without crying, i have so much admiration for all of u, even though i'm half american, my parents were actually in NY, night of sep 10th and were due to fly that day, so i remember it very well, god i was in floods just watching that, u guys are so brave, ty for posting that nxt2hvn and for anyone with any criticism , mentioning no names,(cutycub) i would say something rude, but theres no point, because your not worth it

me too!

bored the hell out of me.

america needs to stop milking this 9/11 thing so much. big deal 2000+ people died in a terrorist attack. 99.9% of them were adults if not all of them. now come on, lets take a minute to think of all the children that died from bombs, that the US randomly dropped on civilians in iraq. i dont know numbers, but i guarentee that more than 3000 inocent peopel have died in iraq since the war started.

so who are the bigger terrorists? and dont get me wrong, im not saying that just america are to blame, the UK have played a big part in "organised terrorism" in iraq. we are more guilty than anyone of killing inocent men women and children

stop being so ignorant

Ignorant? how can u call this ignorant, thousands of ppl died due to some selfish person wishing martyrdom for themselves, terrorism is an evil atrocity which is horrendous factor in the modern world today, did u not see the rest of post pete, if u have ignorant insensitive comments to make, dont bother posting in this thread


alright fair enough ppl die in iraq, but pete i'm not even american so just think how much your comments are gonna offend the american members, if iraq hadnt attacked america in the first place, there would be no need for all innocent iraqis to die, and i agree that all the abuse thats going on is horrible and completley out of order, so i apologise for being snappy

yes, i did read the rest of your post.

did your read all mine? because if you did, you will see why i am calling you, and your patriot mates, ignorant.

thank you

Fluffybunny - you are a star, the way you made me think about how those poor people in the WTC would have felt - it was very touching.

I personally think that the WTC was a disgusting and evil tradgedy that should never had happened. Terrorism is the worst evil in the world and anyone caugh either in the act or terrorism or planing a terrorist act, should be dealt with in the strongest power of the law.

As a person that has spent the last 30 years living and working in London, I have often been affected by terrorism. I remember when Canary Wharf tower was blown up, I not only felt it, I heard it and I saw it, such was my proximity to the explosion.

I think that perhaps some people feel the need to explain their right to go to war on the terrorists, personally I see no need to explain yourselves, terrorism has been such a part of my life for so long that I am releaved to think that the IRA has changed it tact of late, but now we have the new fear of Osama Bin-Laden and what acts he will unleash on us.

The sad thing is, that it is always the innocent that get hurt and die in terrorist attacks and I don't think terrorism will ever be stopped, I wish it would but when one exteemist stops another will start. We just have to tighten our belts and toughen up our security and increase the sentancing.

Mog.

ok, i was their when the IRA bomb went off in manchester about 10 years ago. i walked out of a shop and was greeted by an explosion about 800 yards away. i saw people severely injured, some maybe even dead.

even though i witnessed that, i dont believe we should go and bomb irish civillians in a revenge attack.

2 wrongs dont make a right!

Im English as a lot of you here know...and I remember waking up on my birthday(11-9-70)and feeling wrong about the day.I was on my own as my friends all had work that day and I was getting horrible phone calls from my ex husband.

I turned on the TV to see all hell breaking loose in NY.I watched in total horror at what was going on.

I ended up going to my local pub because I could not sit and watch this alone...my birthday I wanted to forget altogether.

The reason I tell you this is because it did not JUST affect America.
I found out just before xmas that my (now) husband should have been in NY at the time this happened,but because he needed an operation he was moved to Norfolk(England)

I received a phone call from a very tearful other half that afternoon,he had lost a lot of friends,some who had taught him his job and others who he had taught.
He works for an American company who had some of their team out there at the time.
So it did/does affect a lot more people than you think.Every year on that date my husband remembers the friends he lost on that day.

As someone who was born in England I do not see the point on certain members starting a "I hate America"campaign.Both our countries have been affected by terrorists and should be working together instead of saying that America are "milking this".
In my books,they are not milking this...they are trying to point out about the threat,and should not be slated for doing so.

Nxt2Hvn,thank you for your post...it is very moving and touched me all over again.

To other Americans,I would like to say sorry for SOME Brits and hope you will not feel it is all of us.

Sorry for rambling on...just had to get this all out in one go.

i assume your talking about me here?

when did i once say "i hate america"?

and did i not agree that our countries have both been victims of terror attacks?

but look at it like this:

our countries are the biggest terrorists of them all. we go into a country (like iraq), kill civilians, and then run that country like it was our own. we kill, colonise and move on to the next country. its no wonder all those countries hate the US and UK.

yes it was bad that 4 years ago 2000 americans died. but i am more sad for the people of all the countries who america and britain have bombed. to all the parents who have lost little children to america and britains armys and to all the inocent civilains who had no choice but to die as a result of our revenge attacks.


so keep apologising for my opinion, but it wont change, and i know many many people are going to agree with me when i say that the british and american govenment are far more evil than any terrorist in the world.

I find it good you can voice our opinion, for if you voiced that opinion about Saddam's rule in Iraq whilst he was in power...It would be your last word. At least your governemnt grants you rights, something these people didn't have.....

they might not have had many rights, but thy had life, and they had there children, and homes.

....no...not really....

No, not lost stillcrazy, HERE YA GO

Opps, sorry, just now noticed that the link is broken. I'll IM Saruman to see if he can restore it.

Hey hun...if you feel guilty enough to feel that whole statement was all about you then go ahead and take it what ever way you want. Also,Im not out to change anyones opinions...just pointing out the fact that everyone should be together on this...not against.

Sub...Im with you on that 100%

How can anyone really say that is really living...all they do/did is live in fear every day,I'd hate that.

but now they are dead!

are you saying they are better off dead than without rights?

Must every thread, even about such an attack like this, turn into "Well! Civilians are dying in Iraq!"

Civilians are dying in Iraq, alright... we know that... does that change 9/11 in any way?



So? Are we not allowed to post a thread on one of them?



Are we saying they are? Has anyone made such a comment in this thread? It seems like you're the first who brings it up.



Im not from the US... but, much like the CN tower, certian buildings are a testament to the countries power, pride and such.



Um... america IS the biggest superpower atm...



What superiority complex? Did I say that the US is the best nation? I said its the strongest superpower, and its true.

Looks like someone might have an inferiority complex...



Its a hotspot much like the pacific and california is.



Yes, and? No ones belittling that disaster...

Go move to Zimbabwe then. Oh wait, thats right... you LIKE your privileges. You do realize that although innocent people have been killed in Iraq, the vast majority of their nation is extactic to be able to vote in their election?? Iraqi citizens even here in Detroit are going to be voting at remote voting sites. THEY are happy we did what we did, now they have their first opportunity to vote in at least over 20 years.


I think we have already established that it was NOT just Americans who died in the attack. Yes, it was a sad day for America, it was an even MORE sad day for HUMANKIND. Like I've said before, the reaction that Americans had to this attack was so large because this type of event RARELY happens on American soil. So yea, we are a little pissed about it. And we're gonna mourne the loss.



we are evil for trying to take dictator out of power?? One who was more torturous to his own people than we can imagine? yeah, we're the bad guys.

I am sorry, I don't need to or want to watch this video. The horror of watching it unfold is still with me.


I hope so too snufffs, for your cousin and everyone else.