I realize this topic may be deleted.

I realize this topic may be closed.

I realize I may even be banned for saying what I'm about to say.

But I'm gonna say it anyway.



I am an American citizen. I am a PROUD American citizen. I love my country with all of my heart. When I go to a Cubs game and I hear the national anthem, I still get tears in my eyes at seeing my flag raised high. I love my country and will defend her at all costs.

Which brings me to the point of this post. I see a ton of American bashing on this website. A lot of people bash the president, and that's okay. But it's going farther than that. I'm reading posts now where people are hoping for another attack on America. They're hoping to see America destroyed.

And you wonder why the few of us that are here lash out..............

What would YOU do if we wished death on YOUR country?

Just a few weeks ago, a member in the United Nations categorized the U.S. as "stingy" because we'd pledged an initial $35 million towards the tsunami relief effort. It was an initial amount by our government, and it's gone far past that. Yet, at the time, the country of France had pledged a WHOPPING $250 thousand. And nothing was said.

The proceeds from my daughter's last band concert (she's in middle school), instead of being directed to the district for supplies, were diverted to the tsunami relief effort. Every single church in my town held a food drive for the relief effort. The supplies were stocked beyond capacity and they had to turn cans of food away because they had no way to transport them.

But Americans keep getting labeled as bad people.

When a region of the world has a disaster, and we try and lend a hand, they take that hand willingly, and then turn around when they're back on their feet and bash us. Yet we still lend our hand to countries in need.

America has its internal problems. Every country does. And some would argue that we should take care of those problems first before trying to help other countries. And, to be honest, I can't argue with that sentiment. Those people have a point.

America has relieved more debt to countries than any other country in the world, yet it goes unnoticed. America has protected scores of countries oveseas in Europe from threat, yet it goes unappreciated. All we Americans want is for every other person in this world to be a free citizen. Free of oppressive leaders. Free to speak your minds without fear of being arrested or worse.

Democracy is a GOOD thing. For the conspiracy theorists, this post is not for you. Regardless of the circumstances, you'll always believe in a conspiracy. You believe the world is heading towards a "New World Order". Well, if the world really was a "New World Order" and we had a one-world government, you'd be posting conspiracies about how the world was going to split up into different countries. There is no truth with conspiracy theorists. They live and thrive on pananoia. It doesn't matter the situation or the current state of affairs.

So there are some people that this post just isn't going to get to. Because your minds are completely closed.

But there ARE good people in America. I assure you.

Don't worry i belive that American's are GREAT people. I just have a problem with Bush and rest assured that i will never ever wish an attack of the innocent people of the usa.

MedicTJ, very well said.

As an American, I don't mind people bashing the President or administration. That comes with the job. It is the peoples right to question the government, and I have exercised that right a lot lately.

I do mind being lumped into the group of Americans with the mind set of America first no matter what. I refuse to follow blindly anyone, or take at face value, anything I'm told.

I take pride in my country, and many of my fellow countrymen. But there will always be those that there mind set is "America, Love it or leave it."

We open our borders to all nationalities, we give money and man power to nations that are facing disaster through drought, natural disasters or political uprising.

Yes, we try to spread Democracy every where we go. And I know for a fact, that our democracy isn't the best system in the world. But it works when it is allowed to.

I have been to Canada, Mexico and a few other countries. While I enjoyed the people and warmth of those nations, I would still prefer to be in the U.S.

We are not a perfect Country, with our freedom comes many, many bad things. But all in all, every country has a dark side. we are more open about it than many.

For all of you who consider yourself staunch Bush supporters. Look at the realities of what we has a country, have been through. I don't agree with many of Bush's policy's, and have never made bones about it. I feel that we, as a country, were misled on the war with Iraq. As a citizen, I have the right not to support the President. As an American, I have a duty and responsibility to support our troops.

The President, and the Administration do not make America, it is the citizens. Many of us are just like others all over the world. We try and raise a family, work to support ourselves, and hope for a better tomorrow.

I know this sounded kind of random. But I just wanted to get some thoughts down before it becomes another flame war.

Peace.

You could have easily posted this in one of those "Anti-American" forums you keeping talking about.



No. You see a bunch of well educated people discussing America openly and honestly. A majority of these "bashers" are Americans. The rest of us can give an unbiased opinion on how the world views your country.

ie, I see lots of intelligent discussion, but hardly any bashing...those FEW people that do usually have their posts edited by mods.



Wha?



Quote some posts please. I haven't seen anything of the sort. Perhaps you should have notified a mod?



As I said...the biggest American critics here are Americans themselves. I have a lot of respect for those people because they're not taking your approach by shoving their heads in the sand and pretending that their country is perfect. They're looking to better themselves, understand their neighbors and make a difference.



I'd run to the mountains...it's a proven fact that when America points its big hypocritical finger at you you're toast.



France aren't the self-styled "leaders of the free world". Your country only steps up when their financial interests are in jeopardy and then sits on their hands when 250,000 people in Asia die and desperately need supplies and aid. They were one of the last countries to get involved. For the record, Australia and Japan have exceeded what the US has donated. Smaller, economically shaky countries.



No one is saying the American people are bad...just slightly ignorant and a little arrogant (as a whole).



Congo? China? Australia? Spain? Turkey? Shall I continue? Your government only helps when they're hand is forced or their interests are threatened.



When did this happen? Are you really stretching as far back as 1944 for an example?



There are different views as to what freedom is. All your country is doing is imposing your will. To me, you're not free. You live under the thumb of a controlling administration who continuously lie and cheat and deceive you. Thats not freedom.



Like Castro? Cuba doesn't have enough oil, eh?



So your thinking of moving?



To you and your people. There are other ways.



Most are seeing clearer than you



No one doubts that. As I said, they're just misguided.

[QUOTE]Free to speak your minds without fear of being arrested or worse.


I do disagree with this. Wait then look at the trouble Michael Moore had when he tried to express himself in his book "stupid white men" But then media coverage is controlled by the goverment and isn't the fault of the American public.

Yea he had a bit o' trouble. But the book was published and now you can get it at any discount book store.

Hey whats with the quote ee thing. It didn't quote properly.

-Fixed quote tags

Manfred, I think we may have gone through this before, but the generalizations you make about the US lead me to believe that you really don't know what it is like here.

Watching TV doesn't count for knowing what a country and it's people are like.

If that were the case I would assume that you wrestled alligators...

I think the over-generalized comments that you make are actually a pretty good example of what TJ is talking about in my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion...

I'd like to make it clear than in no way do we condone anything of this nature, if you've seen somebody posting anything like this then click on the "report" button to let the moderators know about it.

Please PM me with a link to the posts in which you say this is happening, because they will be dealt with if you let me know where they are.

crocodiles, we wrestle crocodiles

sheesh

as for the whining about the US being stingy, when the 35mil was pledged NOONE knew the extent of the disaster, when i first heard of the tsunami the deathtoll stood at 1000 people, as the full realization of the disaster came, more money was pledged, people whine too much

People take things too personally.....

I mean, I have read about Australia's token effort in helping America in Iraw.... But do I jump up and down about how we have a tiny army compared to most countries as we have a small population......

Generalizing that all americans are arrogant and such, is stupid. I have met more americans that are just as nice as anyone else, then I ahve those who are arrogant. Further to that, I have met many australians that are arrogant, but since we seem to manage to keep those people on our own shores we seemingly get a reputation of being a nice people.... Which we are, but we have the same amount of arrogant and stupid people that EVERY country in the world has....

I dont like Bush, but I would never take that out on the american people..... I dont like my governemnt here in Oz, and dont hold myself responsible for everything they to either...

And the amount does not include what we were/are spending for the military to drop supplies. about 3 mill a day. And if I remember correctly, we were in right behind the Aussies in Banda Aech.

Crocs..right...sorry about that...my only experience with the things was in Florida...nasty critters...alligators there...they all look the same...anywho...

The US has pledged a boatload of money both government and private. Powell said that if the need was greater that we would dig deeper. On top of the money we have some 19,000 US troops there to help begin the rebuilding process...

I have to say that while the US has made some boneheaded moves; to make generalizations about an entirety of a population from just TV exposure or wild speculation leaves me rather suspect to the motives. I am among the first to ask for my government to explain itself and have written many a letter in protest to the things that the government has done in regards to Iraq. I am not happy with how things have gone, but I do not see how anyone who has not experienced the country can make generalizations about the people of the country.

To me it is no different than saying "All blacks are..." or "all Mexicans are...", I'd get shot down in a heartbeat and be banned for being racist; but if I see someone make statements like :No one is saying the American people are bad...just slightly ignorant and a little arrogant (as a whole). I'd be considered a nazi for removing it. If we were to exchange American with something like blacks, It would be an outragious generalization that would need to be removed immediately.

I made that comment based on my personal experiences with Americans visiting Australia, touring Europe with a bus full of them, American TV/Movies and actually touring the US for almost a month.

Either I'm meeting all the wrong people or I'm right. Either way, I said "most" not "all"

As for my other comments; I didn't have time to elaborate because I was eating dinner while typing.

I think if you had put "Most of the people I have met"..... and not insinuated "Most americans" it would be a little diferent.

It is a matter of opinion. I generally think that people are good. When I travel anywhere in the world it holds true for me. I expect people to be nice and they nearly always are; regardless of what country I am in.

I know people that have travelled to france with the preconceived idea that all french were rude arrogant people, and guess what when they got there all they founf were rude arrogant people. They had many stories to back up their claims too...

When I went to france, I found that generally everyone was very nice there. Whenther in Paris or on the south coast, I met nice lovely people that were very open and warm.

Considering that, I think we very much create the perception we have of the world around us.

You appear to me to dislike americans/america for whatever reasons you have. It is fine; you are entitled to that, but I would be willing to bet money that you are seeing what you are looking for. If you think americans are arrogant, you are going to be looking for that.

The idea of basing your opinion of a people of a country based on television or movies is just not the best source in my opinion. TV sensationalizes everything and twists reality in the hopes of ratings share. The truth of the matter is that the bulk of america is not represented by the media; it would be too boring.

Anyway...it doesn't matter as what I say isn't going to change your opinion as I am just one person...

I agree completely...I didn't go out of my way to travel the US just so I'd have a reason to hate them...furthermore, why would I save ten thousand to go to a country I hate?



I got the opposite...I went there last year and got the famous cold shoulder from everyone I met...and I pushed all negative thoughts out of my mind before arriving and tried to have a good time Had a blast in Nice with the Americans though...we got plenty hammered



My mother has been saying that since I was a kid so I'm always thinking positive...even when I come off cynical or pessimistic.



I'm not looking for anything...and I'd just like to make it clear that I do not hate or dislike America or Americans. I have said that I disliked America before though I was just kidding (which is obvious if you read the post). I do, however, hate the dingbats who are running your country.

Just because I think someone is arrogant or ignorant doesn't mean I dislike or hate them or think they're bad people.



I understand that...but I was basing the majority of my views on personal experience.



As a stubborn sob it would probably take a room of screaming parrots to do the trick

FluffyBunny, Manfred has right toa certainleagnt. Not all the USA citizens are ignorant and arrogant, to generalize is bad, but i know by frinds how go to USA, that a medium to large pasrt of the population is a bit ignorant of the rest of the world, and act in consecuence. For example, a friend of mine had problem whit some people because he was argentinian. Whats the problem you say? well, at first the treated him well,but later the know that him was from "south america" and the cooled of the relation begin, because he was a "latino". Some of then doesnt belive he was from Argentina..."your skin is too white, and you speak english too well" some said to him. But anyway, there is ignorants and idiots in every nation of the world, but just it appear the the USA ones had more reach to the media.


PS: If something of my post is illegible, PM me, i will explain better. my english is crappy...

Your english is fine.

I don't doubt that there are occasions where people run into folks that are idiots and don't handle themselves very well. We have some 300 million people here, odds are even a small percentage of idiots are going to make for a lot of idiots.

Those kind of situations tend to stick with you, whereas the 100 other meetings that went just fine kind of fade away.

If you look at my sig you can read about fools and fanatics; I think that is a part of it.

Manfred has every right to speak his opinion on the matter; I would not want to take that away from him. I just happen to have a different experience and perspective on the matter and was trying to explain that too.

I agree. With a population approaching 300 million, its quite irresponsible to generalize about 'most Americans' if you don't live in the country and experience life here.

As far as Americans being arrogant--hell yes we are
and I have the intelligence to back it up(only said this to prove my arrogance )
As far as Americans being ignorant--only the liberal ones(just kidding )

Seriously though, Americans are arrogant, and I can see how this is portrayed in a negative way in other countries. But we're also very generous. One can't always throw money at problems. Meaning what good is 'pledging' $100 trillion to the tsunami area when the washed out roads and airports makes it impossible to deliver that much aid? Also, which country other than the U.S. has people on the ground and planes in the air delivering this aid? Also, is 'pledging' $100 trillion the same as delivering $100 trillion of aid? What good is 'pledging' x amount of money(except to look good to the rest of the world) without assessing the situation to see what is needed and how to deliver it?

HOMMER dont listen to these half wits ,how ever much AMERICA does for other countries it will never be enough for some people

And when AMERICA does help you get the other people saying you only done it for a reason

What ever you do will be wrong

Some times i wish you would tell them all to f-ck of

But how can you

Excellent point. If America helps, they question the motives. If America doesn't help, we're 'stingy'.

Damned if we do, and damned if we don't

Bottom line_ they are jealous, the countries are jealous of America. Mekorig is anti-american. I think that Medic speaks the truth here.

Yes, this kind of thing saddens me. I've come to expect hatred from people, but that doesn't make me pleased about it.

Please Babs, enlighten us "other Countries" as to what we are jealous of?

What's wrong gollum...did somebody tweak your toe?...or by the looks of your avatar, pick your nose?

A few opinions does not equate to countries being jealous of America. As is a few views on Americans does not equate to the American population as a whole.



So your friends have travelled and lived all over the US then? Considering there are about 300 mil+ people living out there I think your friends are slightly exaggerating and generalising.

I fly over the pond alot and have to say I really really like the American people, especially the one's I know out there. Americans can be insular but then its a vast country anyway. Americans can be arrogant and depending in which parts of the States your in the accent makes them sound even more so. However I am talking about a few people I have met like this. It does not equate to the whole popultaion being like this.

If anything I find the Americans very friendly, open and straight to the point. The people I know are very loyal and they view family and friends as very important. They are also respectful and have mannners.

Any country in the world you go to you will find ignorance and arrogance and to pin point one country shows the greatest ignorance.

Babs, either answer the question put to you, or stay out of the thread. The sarcastic retorts are becoming tiresome.

magikman

Sorry Magikman.

I feel allot of things about America, but jealous is definatly not one of them.
I love the country America, the sites, most people and I have been there a few times and there is something there for everyone, but like Stillcrazy said the way it is run and the way that you would rather make up silly excuses for your government,s mistakes and lies and cover up for them, well not only are they insulting the American peoples intelligents, (cause you let them) but you insult the intelligence of the rest of the world.
They are a Super-Nation and they are in a position to do more good than bad to help more than than they take away, Bush and his Admin.(and I always say his Admin. cause they are all in on getting richer quick)are nothing but capitalists, and will stop at nothing to get what they want. And beleiving them just makes them think they are stronger.

You've had a lot of brainwashing Gmac.

Grow up Babs. You do know that you happen to be a pretty accurate example of what a lot of people see as a "typical" American, like the type Manfred is refering to?
If you could only "step out" and have a "look in" at some of the posts you have made, then, and only then, would you "see" what a lot of people on this site see.

Medic. The american people are NOT labelled as bad. And I don't see you moaning about any other country being labelled bad...only your own. Just because you're proud of being american does not mean you have to refuse that your country is sometimes wrong, that there are good AND bad people in your country and that sometimes it's not just america that are targetted. Every country has it's good or bad faults and NO country can be all good. Not even poor defensless america. I'm sick of people acting like the US is hard done to. You're one of the most powerful countries in the world....your leaders are often sneaky (like every countries leaders). That's how they get to be leaders inthe first place!
*hint* Sadam
*hint* Bush
*hint* Blair.

But please try and understand that americans ARE NOT labelled as bad people. You are NOT being targetted...you're NOT the ones getting kicked in the face and YOU ARE NOT UNFORTUNATE. There are people in this world with no food, money, health or shelter....and they DEAL with it. They make the most of their life and do the best they can to ensure their families and their communitys get along to grow crops and feed themselves. And you're moaning about how someone doesnt like your country?!

Sometimes you've got to understand that not everyone is going to like your country....and you've got to accept that. America has done some things that have pissed the world of recently and frankly that includes me! But then again, this countries the same! As soon as I get the money I'm moving out of the UK.

Having said that....YES I HAVE been to america...and yes, I liked it. The people are generally friendly. They're polite and are willing to help. However, thats not to say there isnt bad people too!

So wise up.....your country isnt being ''bullied''. You just need to accept that sometimes things arent all they seem to be.



And beore you start ranting saying I'm dissing the US, Let's get one thing straight. I'd say the SAME thing to ANYONE who moaned about their country getting stick. ANY COUNTRY, ANY RACE....So no, I'm not talking about the US alone.

Pot, kettle and black spring to mind.

...not arguing with you gollum. All you want to do is argue, that is why I answered you as I did. I'm tired of your anti-statements; you are a prime example of the anti-americanism going around this board.

Well said Noodles.

Can you find anything.... infact anyone, other than your dear self, who feels that I have been anti-american?

You're the one being antagonistic, Babs.

Don't rile someone up deliberately and then complain when they present you with a valid argument your braincells can't handle

Or do as MM suggested and leave the thread if you have nothing relevant to say.

Thankyou Gollum.

I'm not anti-American. I don't anti ANY country. I believe the world is equal. Not in terms of wealth, health and population but in terms of spirit. Everyone should treat each other with the same respect.

And I agree with lottie that generalizing a country by a few people is the most ignorant you can get. That's very true.

Babs: Your posts are unresearched and pointless. You're not even putting forward an argument. You're just refusing to believe your country has EVER done anything wrong. If you stop being patriotic for a second and look at the isssue you'll see that you are just defending your country on blind faith. Are you rich?

I'm asking that for a reason and it's not to diss you. If you can answer this without resorting to an ''america is great and you're wrong'' post then I'll reply. Are you rich?

Take your own advice ....MM

America works it's twaddle off!.... to get the things it has! The US is a militaristic and a progressive country. That means hard work!

There are those in other countries that don't want to do that hard work.

I have had allot of things done to me, but brainwashed, where is you reasoning for your comment, which part was wrong?

And you are right, allot of Americans do work hard, it's to bad none of them are the ons running your country, which is the topic at hand here, in my opinion they just digging a bigger hole than the one you are already in. And you let them.

PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES DON'T DO HARD WORK??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/3826400...31_child300.jpg

You call this not working hard enough to feed your family and survive?

http://www.divine-mother.org/pics/mother/main.gif

You're saying this Indian woman (ammachi) doesnt give up her entire life just to help others and cure them of illness.
http://www.bctf.ca/social/GlobalEd/GlobalC...es/image002.jpg

You're saying that this child....young...working....just so his family can survive..You're saying he doesnt want to work?

He does. They do. THEY HAVE TO.

You have a LOT more freedom and you have it a LOT better off than others in this world. DON'T FORGET IT!

You're all insane...

....about our government_mistakes, lies, cover-up etc. etc. ...what you just said.

You get a lot of propoganda.

And the capitalism part, you really don't know how the country is run.

So Babs, do you honestly think that there is no-one in America "working the're ticket"? To enlighten you that means living off the state hand-outs or welfare system.
I'll agree on one thing, some people don't want to work and earn a living. But, alas, that's the same the world over.
But do you genuinely think that because Americans go out to work, that they are somehow special, priveliaged, better than the rest of us?
I happen to work on average about a 65-75 hour week, most weeks without a day off, so again enlighten me Babs, what is it I should be jealous of again?

Hey Noodleness, just 200 years ago our land had nothing on it! Want to see the pain and sorrow our people took?

Talk about blow things out of all perportion ..give BABS a break

she was only telling you what she thinks

that is her choice

You're off a little here again gollum...where did I say I thought Americans were better?....I said we have worked for what we have GOT!

Pain and sorrow. Then...yes. And I don't like the way things were. But also....the native land wasnt for US citizens as we know them today. They are now however American. And it is your land...BUT one thing you have to realise is that your country is not perfect! Please stop trying to defend EVERYthing it does.

Yeh that's right Babs, but if you check your history you will find it was the 30,000,000 black slaves that you took from there homes in Africa that actually built your country.
But going on your previous statements that would probably suit you.