The year was 1224, he day was14 september-Holy Cross Day-and st Francis of Assisi was kneeling devoutly in prayer near his humble retreat on monte Alverine,profoundly contemplating the terrinle suffering of Jesus on the cross.St Francis instantly began to develop bleeding wound in his hand,feet and side that corresponded to the crucifixion wounds of Jesus.

what do u guys think about it.

Personally I believe that te stigmata is a real phenomenon, but it is created by our own minds, for instance, we see pictures for years that Jesus was crucified with nails in his hands and feet, so that is where all the stigmatics get it, in the hands and the feet.

If it was a real supernatural case of them getting it because that is wheer Jesus got it it would be in the wrists and the ankles, as that is where the nails would have gone, as the hands and feet are too weak to support the weight.

Looking at it logically, if stigmata was a spiritual/religious phenomenon, then
what is the point? The person experiencing it is typically a devout follower of
one of the Christian faiths and so their conversion to that faith has already
occurred. All it would do is cause more suffering to the person. As for being a
symbol of God's power, it's a rather cruel and horrible one. Besides which, most
Christian beliefs are centred upon having faith in the gospels and not looking
for physical/tangible proof.

I personally believe it to be a psychological phenomenon. The person who has
received the stigmata has usually been contemplating the crucifixion and the
death of the man called Jesus. It's not too far a leap to think that this leads to
a phsical manifestation of the signs. Eg, when we see creepy-crawlies on the
television, most of us feel itchy afterwards as if one of the bugs was crawling
on our skin. Same principle here.

stigmata.......is that not another word for selfharm...people who injure themselves.for different reasons,,,,i.e.....they feel they are not worthy of love..or seeking attention for other reasons....

I posted this on a different forum ...


St Francis of Assisi (Francesco Bernadone) acquired the stigmata in 1224. On a spiritual retreat on Mt. Alvernus, Francis had suddenly fallen unconcious while praying. When he recovered the five wounds were found on his body.


QUOTE:
' " His hands and feet seemed pierced in the midst by nails, the heads of the nails appearing in the inner part of the hands and in the upper part of the feet... his right side, as if it had been pierced by a lance, was overlaid with a scar, and ofteen shed forth blood..." '
- Thomas Celano, biographer of St Francis of Assisi. [c. 1229]



Capuchin friar, Padre Pio da Pietralani (Francesco Forgione) suffered the first symptoms of pains in his palms in 1915. In 1918 the Italian padre was celebrating the Festical of St Francis when he suddenly collapsed. Other celebrants helped the padre to his feet and found that he was bleeding from his hands, feet and side. From then until his death the Padre tried to conceal the stigmata from public view, even wearing gloves when celebrating Mass. However, from 1918 until his death 28 Sep 1968, Padre Pio's wounds bled each day.

Padre Pio was kept under regular observation by his church and including a group of medical practitioners. No evidence was found of fraud.

I have to agree with LB on this one.. Just with my own twist.

You have to also see how easy it would be, with a slight of hand move, to make these wounds, even in front of hundreds of people.

There have never been any 'proven' cases of Stigmata. There have been well documented cases, but none of them were proven beyond a shadow of doubt to be true.


Reese

I think the stigmata is real, but not in the sense of divinely given. I believe it only a psychosomatic illness, for example if you really really hate your mother in law. And you believe her incessant complaining is giving you an ulcer and you dwell on this idea. Then eventually when she comes near you begin to feel pains in your gut thus confirming your belief and making it stronger. A basic feedback loop. Of course to actually bleed would take a huge amount of concentration and thinking almost nonstop of the desired event. When we look at these people who exhibit stigmata they are usually fanatical (not crazy...) but they are almost constantly thinking og god and the crucifixion and actually enduring what Christ did is the ultimate for them and they begin to identify with this image until it is manifested. Usually you'll notice these people are almost monks and sequester themselves away for long periods of time to 'focus' on reaching God.
I tried this once, I associated a painful ulcer with teaching. After about a month of this everytime my girlfriend asked me to teach her something I got a sharp burning in my gut....still do. The power of the mind is truly staggering.

I also believe that stigmata is real, in SOME cases.
The story you provided is very interesting and I believe it.

QUOTE

I believe it only a psychosomatic illness, for example if you really really hate your mother in law. And you believe her incessant complaining is giving you an ulcer and you dwell on this idea. Then eventually when she comes near you begin to feel pains in your gut thus confirming your belief and making it stronger.

I believe this quote in its entirety. I used to be a smoker, until it hurt. I knew then that cigarettes made my chest hurt. That association has become permanent. In the final stages of my habit, just looking at one gave me the same physical reaction...a pavlov's dog of sorts.

It just goes to show that the body is capable of physical reactions to mental/emotional stimulii. Is stigmata just an extreme example?

I have read the (New King James Holy BIBLE) from cover to cover, and never seeing any type of this (Manifestation called Stigmata). It is not taught in the Word (GOD). When (Jesus) died on the Cross He said IT IS Finish. Stigmata is another way that Satan is using to Get peoples eyes off the true word of (GOD). Let me show how Satan uses the true Word to misleads (GODS) people. There are so many (SAINTS) attached to the Roman Catholic Church. They pray to these dead Saints hoping to get all there prayers answer. This is forbidden by (JESUS). 1 Timothy 2:- 5, For there is one (GOD) and one Mediator between (GOD) and men, The Man (CHRIST JESUS). Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV in 965 A.D. (EVERY BELIEVER and FOLLOWER of (CHRIST JESUS) are called (SAINTS) in the (BIBLE). Romans 1:-7, To all who are in Rome, beloved of (GOD) Called to be (SAINTS): 1 Corinthians 1:-2, To the Church of (GOD) which is at Corinth to those who are sanctified in (CHRIST JESUS), Called to be (SAINTS). (Note)-What Paul is saying, All (BELIEVERS) are called (SAINTS). Yet Satan would have you keep praying to the dead (SAINTS). That way you will not see the true Word of (GOD). So (Stigmata) is another Trick of Satan.

The simplest and most logical explanation is that they are self inflicted.

I've done a good bit of research on this subject, and a variety of data links dramatic dietary constriction, reduced serotonergic functioning, altered states of consciousness, and self-injurious behavior to stigmata.

Abstract

"Stigmata, wounds resembling those of Christ, have been reported since the 13th century. The wounds typically appear in association with visions following prolonged fasting. This paper argues that self-starvation holds the key to understanding this unique event. Stigmata may result from self-mutilation occurring during dissociation, phenomena precipitated in part by dietary constriction. Psychophysiological mechanisms produced by natural selection adjust the salience of risk in light of current resource abundance. As a result, artificial dietary constriction results in indifference to harm. Catholic representations of Christ's crucifixion provide a cultural context that both motivates and lends meaning to the experiences of individuals whose predispositions and life histories increase the likelihood of dietary constriction, dissociation, and self-mutilation."


A Psychobiocultural Perspective on Stigmata

Source: Mind & Society - Publisher Springer Berlin / Heidelberg



Edit to add: I can't seem to get the link to open...odd. My apologes for posting a link that won't open. In the mean time I'll try to get this link to work.

I believe it's real.. it scares me but i believe it's real

I am still unable to get the link to open, so I'm going to post some of the info.

Starvation, Serotonin, and Self-mutilation

"Of the 36 Minnesota subjects, the behavior of one individual stands out as particularly
bizarre; just after the nadir in the 6-month starvation regimen, an otherwise healthy 28 year old man
engaged in repeated acts of self-mutilation, ultimately chopping off three of his fingers (Keys et al.,
1950:892-897). Numerous cases of self-mutilation likewise occurred among Allied prisoners of war
in Japanese POW camps (Curtin, 1946); relatedly, accident rates went up dramatically in the
Netherlands during the World War II famine (reviewed in Keys et al., 1950:898). Self-mutilation
exhibits significant co-morbidity with anorexia nervosa (Schulze et al., 1999; Glorio et al., 2000),
and self-flagellation and other active, painful forms of mortification were present to a remarkable
degree among Medieval female ascetics who engaged in dramatic dietary constriction (Lester, 1995).
It is likely that the association between starvation and self-mutilation stems in part from the role of
decreased serotonergic functioning in the etiology of the latter (cf. Demitrack et al., 1990; New et
al., 1997).

The prospect of bodily harm, normally a fundamental deterrent to a wide variety of
potentially injurious actions, loses its motivational salience as part of a general shift to risk
indifference. Self-mutilation is thus partially explicable as a maladaptive byproduct of the normal
risk-discounting system. Natural selection has not favored a ceiling on the indifference to harm
because, under severe conditions, individuals who calculated potential harm were less likely to survive
than those who became oblivious to harm, saw only potential benefits, and took advantage of risky
opportunities accordingly. As a consequence, when both current status and future prospects are dire,
people may become unconcerned with the injurious consequences of their actions.

Severe dietaryconstriction leads to a (normally adaptive) reduction in serotonergic activity, prompting risk-taking
in order improve present circumstances and future prospects. However, if serotonergic activity is
sufficiently reduced, risk-taking may sometimes be misdirected into behaviors which hold no prospect
of objective benefit. Moreover, as part of a normally adaptive response to injury, opiate-like betaendorphins
are released (Porro et al., 1999). The removal of normal motivational barriers to harm
thus facilitates injurious behavior which may result in rewarding endorphin release (cf. Holden, Pakula
& Mooney, 1997).

Like fasting, self-mutilation is a dramatic behavior that lends itself to the application of
symbolic systems. Self-mutilation is often institutionalized as a ritualized activity associated with
supernaturalism, and frequently practiced while in trance (cf. Ward, 1984). Clinical self-mutilators
display marked dissociative symptoms (Zlotnick et al., 1996). As is true of present-day Western
anorexics in general (Banks, 1992; Garrett, 1996), contemporary Western self-mutilators often do
not have readily available cultural schemas that explain, justify, and further motivate their actions;
instead, they seek to construct personal meanings around the behavior (cf. Scharbach, 1984).

Anorexia nervosa and self-mutilation may often be components of an obsessive-compulsive
disorder (Yaryura-Tobias, Neziroglu & Kaplan, 1995), with the behaviors exhibiting a ritualized,
repetitive pattern (cf. Barrett & Fine, 1990; Langbehn & Pfohl, 1993). Causal factors underlying
obsessive-compulsive disorders, while complex, importantly include serotonergic functioning
(McDougle et al., 1999).

In underweight anorexics, pharmacologic interference with serotonergic
activity exacerbates obsessive-compulsive reactivity, while this effect diminishes as patients regain
lost weight (Hadigan et al., 1995). It thus appears that many cases of anorexia nervosa and selfmutilation
may involve a downward spiral in which obsessive-compulsive tendencies contribute to
dietary constriction, dietary constriction reduces serotonergic activity further, and reduced
serotonergic activity exacerbates obsessive-compulsive tendencies (cf. Leibowitz, 1990; Kaye et al.,
2000).

Obsessive-compulsive disorders exhibit many similarities with ritualized religious behavior
(Dulaney & Fiske, 1994), and there is substantial correlation between Catholic religiosity and
obsessive-compulsive cognitions and symptoms (Sica et al., 2002). The repetitive practice of
fasting, dissociative experience, and self-mutilation thus intrinsically lends itself to interpretation
within a symbolic ritual framework.

Asceticism and wounds
Modern biomedical attempts to explain stigmata have largely focused on psychogenic
purpura (Early & Lifschutz, 1974; Ratnoff, 1989; Panconesi & Hautmann, 1995). This unusual
syndrome, manifesting as spontaneous painful bruising, generally occurs in individuals having
underlying emotional disorders, and, consistent with the distribution of stigmatism, is more common
in women. Psychogenic purpura may occur in conjunction with dissociation, hallucinations, fainting,
double vision, and anxiety (Ratnoff, 1989; Yuecel, Kiziltan & Aktan, 2000).5

The bruises of psychogenic purpura may occur in nonrandom locations on the body, and the
psychological concomitants of the disorder are congruent with many of the attributes of stigmatists.
However, consistent with the prominence of bleeding in popular depictions of Christ’s wounds,
stigmatists have often exhibited not only bruising, but also open wounds that bleed profusely. Hence,
while psychogenic purpura may contribute to the formation of stigmata, they are unlikely to be the
sole cause -- active self-mutilation is probably involved as well. However, unlike secular selfmutilators
who generally recognize themselves as the cause of their wounds, true stigmatists likely
engage in self-mutilation during altered states of consciousness involving an experience of the divine,
retaining no overt awareness of their actions.6

The secondary gains to be reaped from both thepresence of the wounds and the suppression
of awareness of their source are substantial (Lord, 1957),
and this probably reinforces the pattern of self-mutilation during profound dissociation. Once open
wounds exist, the (as yet poorly understood) processes underlying psychogenic purpura may also
contribute to the highly punctuated episodic bleeding reported in some cases (cf. Wilson, 1988).
Although accounts of the time course of stigmatic wounds vary, the prolonged existence of
lesions, whether constantly open or easily reopened (directly or psychogenically), is a hallmark of
the condition.

Wound healing is importantly contingent on nutritional status; even relatively minor
deficits of protein, iron, and zinc can directly impact wound repair (Mora, 1999). Meat and other
animal products are important contributors to adequate levels of protein, iron, and zinc (Ortega et
al., 1998). Consistent with their unique salience as targets of conditioned food aversions (reviewed in
Fessler, 2001), these foods are primary targets of avoidance by sufferers of anorexia nervosa (Vaz,
Alcaina & Guisado, 1998), and, correspondingly, anorexics often suffer deficiencies of protein
(Haluzík et al., 1999), iron (Thibault & Roberge, 1987), and zinc (Varela, Marcos & Navarro, 1992;
but see also Marcos, 1997). Corresponding to the behavior of anorexics, in disparate cultures, meat
is singled out for avoidance by individuals fasting for religious purposes (cf. Eggan, 1950; Lodge,
1942; Schaden, 1962; Warren, 1973; Glick, 1980), and the centrality of meat in pious abstinence has
a long history in Christianity(Toussaint-Samat, 1993).

Cont.

Culture, atypical subjective experience.
Not all individuals who possess many conditioned food aversions become extreme dietary
constrictors, not all extreme dietary constrictors self-mutilate, and not all self-mutilating dietary
constrictors develop stigmata. At each branch in this event tree particulars of genotype, individual
life history, and cultural context come into play. There is a strong association between traumatic life
events, notably including physical abuse, and self-mutilation and dissociation (Nijman et al., 1999).
In keeping with the notion that serotonergic functioning serves to modulate impulsivity in light of
current status and future prospects, psychosocial trauma during childhood, which can be seen as
indexing difficult life circumstances, is associated with reduced serotonergic activity and enhanced
impulsivity (Pine et al., 1996; Lewis, 1985; Allgulander & Nilsson, 2000; Harano, Peck & McBride,
1975; Virkkunen et al., 1996). A number of stigmatists are reported to have experienced early
trauma, and a significant proportion of all stigmatists demonstrated propensities towards dissociation,
self-mutilation, and severe dietary constriction (including vomiting) independent of fasting in
advance of manifesting stigmata (Whitlock & Hynes, 1978; Wilson, 1988; Harrison, 1994).

Hence, it appears that the path to developing the full-blown suite of traits found in stigmatists is
likely one that begins with a genetic predisposition that is then augmented by life events. However,
the total number of stigmatists is almost certainly tiny compared to the number of individuals who
share their symptoms but not their symbolism. Reported cases of stigmatism are overwhelmingly
concentrated in the Catholic countries of western Europe, with the majority located in Italy
(Harrison, 1994). Moreover, the details of the stigmata reflect the artistic renderings of Christ
popular at the time (Whitlock & Hynes, 1978). Clearly, becoming a stigmatist is importantly
contingent on the presence of preexisting cultural schemas regarding the meanings of fasting, visions,
and wounds.

In a Muslim village in Bengkulu, Southwestern Sumatra, studied ethnographically, most adults
fasted from sunrise to sunset for one month each year (Fessler, 1995). Fasters were motivated, in an
experience-distant fashion, by religious concepts of obligation and the accumulation of merit. More
immediately, fasters acquired the experience-near rewards of obtaining social approval, avoiding
social disapproval, and enjoying a sense of communitas during fast-breaking. Nevertheless, for most
people, fasting did not come easily.

As Ramadan approached, much discussion revolved around the
pain and fatigue which was to ensue, and the difficulty of controlling the urge to eat. In a cultural
environment such as this, those rare individuals who exhibit a strong propensity to fast are praised
rather than (to use the common form of the term) stigmatized. Similarly, culturally-constituted
notions of the meaning of self-denial in historical Catholicism presented a meaningful and rewarding
context for individuals who possessed a propensity for dietary constriction (Bell, 1985). More
generally, many cultures provide recognizable statuses for individuals whose psychological
propensities place them at the extreme end of a population distribution (James, 1902; cf. Banks,
1992; Tait, 1993; Huline-Dickens, 2000).

The salience of open wounds in depictions of Christ beginning in the 13th century (Yarom,
1992) provided a ready meaning system that likely shaped the experiences, actions, and accounts of
devout Catholics having a psychological predisposition to dietary constriction and attendant
dissociation and self-mutilation. However, the secular societies of modern nation-states have largely
abandoned past belief systems that sanctioned such atypical subjective experience (Banks, 1996).