many people want to find out the truth about exorcism like

are they really expelling a demon?
can you really become an exorcist without training? (by the way no)
are you a demoniac? (a possessed one)

Those questions plaqued me a few years ago. I never did get the answer.
*shrugs*I'm not to clear on the subject, so i'll be watching this board so some ansers

I have attended three exorcisms, and studied about a dozen more. I have also trained in hypnotherapy. I did not see, nor have I heard credible accounts, of any event during an exorcism that cannot be replicated through normal means, or explained through an understanding of psychology and hypnotism.

I do not believe exorcists are expelling demons, nor do I believe that the victims were possessed by demons. I believe possession is a case of extreme obsession, and it can be 'cured' systematically and far less traumatically, through the use of hypnotherapy.

it's dosen't matter if it's real or not it's helps some people and that's means it works

It is brain parasites, bacteria, insects etc... that possess the human brain, not ghosts, spooks, or demons...

The question wasn't whether it works or not.

I agree with Aquatus and say that it is most likely not demonic posession. But there is something occuring at the psychosomatic level, kind of like a placebo effect, that aids the person in recovery.

Aquatus- what were the results of the exorcisms you attended? Were they successful? Were the effects of recovery long term, or was there a reoccurence?

Metatron

Because of my job, I've frequently been led to clear out auras or "destroy" bewitchments.

About possessions (needing an exorcism), I've never been confronted to them, but I think they exist and need a highly spititual level to be "cured".

I know an exorcist priest who deals with that frequently.

As an indication : in France, only for the catholic church, we have 119 exorcist priests.

They are very real in the minds of the people. thats all

Two were succesfull, but due to personal events, I was unable to see the final one to its conclusion. The two that I witnessed lasted the two years that I was in the area, but that was over a decade ago. I have found many examples of relapses, but the key factor seems to be the environment. Exorcists are trained to recognize and modify the religious climate around the victim, hopefully making it less conducive to these episodes. There are times that, for whatever reason, the local people refuse to modify their services, and the victim once again succumbs to the same factors as before.

Aqua, have you ever come across a case where the patient was speaking in tongue?

Not personally. One was just screaming, another was making some interesting speculations concerning the priests ancestry, and the third was growling and groaning. I've read about cases were people 'speak in tongue', but I've yet to come across a case that has been studied by a linguist and found to have a logical pattern to it, as a language is meant to.

thanks everyone keep your thoughts coming its helping my school report

that is the shiznit because im doin this report i think i could get a good grade if i could witness one myself

You'll get a better grade if you can objectively report both sides of the argument, spiritual and scientific.

i see thanks aquatis1
i gtg

Not a problem. Feel free to ask for help.

Can I ask this question here?

What exactly is speaking in tongue and is it for real? I know someone that said he received the holy spirit and spoke in tongues when he did.. but I have no idea what that even means.

I was just wondering or hoping for a little info on this (just curious is all).

In First Corintians, “tongues” appears on the list of gifts is a bestowed by God’s grace. It is not a natural ability, nor something that you can learn, but rather one that appears as a sign of God's favor. In Corintians, the use of the word "tongue" is often, by context, assumed to be unknown; that is, it is not a language of man, but rather ecstatic noises and sounds of an unknown meaning.

In other parts of the Bible, however, "tongues" refers not to languages in general, but to manners of speaking, or ideas, which the listener is not familiar with. In this regard, "tongues" refers to a language that is understood, as seen in Mark 16:17 (“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name they shall cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues”), but speaking of an idea (men casting out demons instead of God) that is foreign.

In the academic world, the study and classification of languages and dialects is known as glossolalia made up of two Greek words, glossa (language or tongue) and lalia (speech). The definition of supernatural language has received much study, and many examples of people "speaking in tongues" have been analyzed. The resulting finds are that these rambling contained no patterns or structure which would make them languages; they seem to be simply random gibberish.

Hope that helped.

YES, thank you aquatus 1.

I understand perfectly!

I was wondering;whats the differce between exoricsms on a home or an area and exoricsms on people?and how do you know which to do?I know someone who had one done on there house a long time ago,but I would have thought it would have made more sence if he had gotten one on himself.all is well,thow.

I think that it's more or less a deeply represed personality like MPD(Mulitple Personality Disorder)

I've been involved in a few exorcisms, known several people who were possessed or oppressed, and studdied the matter quite a bit. Yes possession does still occur although its exceptionaly rare(more often people have oppression and mistake it). In terms of the difference between a house exorcism and a personal one it depends on the case. If a person starts exhibiting signs of demonic possession (of which there are many no combination of which has an explanation under any excepted field of psychology(some could be explained by parapsychology but to put it bluntly parapsychology is no more science then demonology) an exorcism of person would be preformed, other wise it would be one of the location or object. Several excelent books exist on the matter specificly I'd suggest:
The Demonologist, Werewolf, Ghost Hunters, The Haunted, The Devil in Ct, Satan's Harvest, Deliver us From Evil, Graveyard, and In a Dark Place: By Ed and Lorraine Warren
The Amityville Horror: Jane Anson
Hostage to the Devil: by Malachi Martin
An Exorcist Tells his Story, and An Exorcist: More Stories: by Father Gabrielle Armothe
Shadows of the Dark: by John Zaffis
The Devils of Lodoun: by Allodus Huxley
Some books to avoid:
Manual of Demonology: by Bishop (self proclaimed) Roy Bryant
In the Name of Satan: by Bob Larson
The Amityville Horror Conspiracy: by Stephen Kaplan(it claims to be a scientific discrediting of Amityville in point of fact its a personal attack on the Warrens and the Lutz's based mostly in oppinion)
The Night the Defeo's Died Reinvestigatin the Amityville Murders: By Ric Ossuna (a more recent attempt to discredit the Lutz's story that ranks among the most poorly written books in history there are entire web pages dedicated to shooting holes in this book)
Some Web sites:
www.lougentile.com(online radio show hosted by a demonologist and occasionaly by myself lots of guests on the full spectrum of the paranormal)
www.demonologyresearch.com(currently down while we update)
www.prsne.com(excelent site by John Zaffis(nephew of the Warrens one of the best in the field)
www.warrens.net(the site of Ed Warren's organization. Ed was a lay religious demonologist the only one in the world formally recognized as such by the Vatican and Roman Catholic church)

I hope you don't mind me commenting on the Posts on Possessions/Exorcisms and are they true or the product of the Mind.
I have first hand knowledge that possessions are true and I wrote an entry somewhere on this site but I'll write it again.
Possessions are real and while many people believe possessions are due to Demons the fact is what we are calling Demons in my Case are three mean relatives who died with unresolved issue.
They died in the 40's, 50's and 60's
In l985 a man I knew had a heart attack while out jogging with his mistress and she left him alone without medical help as he tells it and he lay in a Morgue for 24 hours before anyone identified him.
In the Spirit World he met up with my three relatives and I believe they took advantage of his new death state and turned him against many including his wife who refused to believe he was speaking to her from the Spirit World through a Psychic Channel.
I believe if she had accepted his message from the Spirit World she could have been helpful but instead she said she doesn't believe he is sending her a message from where he is and he is dead and she is getting on with her life and if he really is channeling through me or anyone else he is now our problem because she is getting on with her life now that he is dead.
Well this set him off and in l986 the first Anniversary of his Death he and my relatives entered my body and refused to get out and say they will never leave until I convince others they are alive and doing this to me.
Priests don't believe and the ones who do say I am messing with the Devil but that's not true there are many good Spirits in the Spirit World who want to channel in the right way and sometimes these others get jealous and possessive and try to drive the Guides away by attacking the ones who want to Channel for them.
I don't expect many people know how to remove these Spirits from the body of a Human but I do believe I owe it to the World to tell them that Possessions are Real.
I personally don't know if an Exorcist could remove a possession Spirit and after reading some of the stories about how ignorant Exorcists abuse people who say they are possessied I am not sure I would trust them.
In the meantime I am writing about these Spirits and my Experiences in forums and in my own aol Journal hoping that this mans family might happen on to the Journal and agree to help me talk him out of my body and on to a Higher Realm.
Thanks for Listening and hope this has been helpful.

Demons and exorcisms do in fact exist, but like stated in previous posts, very, very rare. In fact the Roman Catholic church only considers Demonic Possession if these symptoms are found.

1. Speaking in languages foreign to the victim.
2. Using Telepathy or telekineses.
3. Ability to predict the future.

If none of those can be documented, the church does not consider this to be a Demonic Possession. So to this day, the Roman Catholic church still teaches Exorcists on how to do their job, and also considering the Rite of the exorcism was recently updated by Pope John Paul II, shows that in fact, these specific priests do in fact have a job within the church.

I personally have not seen an exorcism, but being an Ex Priest of the Roman Catholic Church, I have seen alot of catalogued information regarding exorcisms.

I do agree a large portion of so called Possessions are fake, in fact I would agree that 90% of them are, and are usually conducted by Pastors, Group Leaders, and Orthodox churches. The Roman Catholic Church once again, will not give permission, or summon an exorcist unless the top symptoms are found.

There was an earlier post that asked if anyone can be an Exorcist. In order to be an exorcist of the Roman Catholic Church, you must be baptised, that is the only pre-requisite. In fact, you don't need to join the church, but you must understand the rite of the exorcism, as they can be very dangerous on the exorcist and the assistants if not prepared.

A good book is called Glimpses of the Devil, by Richard Peck, a Doctor of Pyschology. He had been a psychologist for 20 years, very reknowned when finally he believed in Demonic Possession, and later became an exorcist. During his practice he only found 2 victims of Demonic Possession, both were not overall severe, but it was enough to convince him that Satanic Possession can in fact be done, specially when all 20 years of his schooling, and other pyschologists he asked could not hold any answers.

If anyone would like any information regarding Demonic Possession, or Demonology, feel free to PM, or e-mail me, it was my Major in the Church.

i thought exorcisms were about making the demon make a promise
not pushing it out

Not at all, the whole purpose of the rite is to reject the demon from the human body. The exorcist is just the tool, in fact the real exorcist can be said to be the victim themself. They have to want to get rid of the Demon, and expell it.

Most demonic possessions happen over time, and are rarely a just 1 day event in which a demon has total control. A demon can be a constant voice in the back of your mind. Over years of trusting it's voice, you give in too it, and it then controls your body. Before a demon wants control of you, it wants your trust more then anything, because it knows that in order for you to reject it, you seriously want to leave the demon. It wouldn't be much different then having to say goodbye to a best friend or family member, or even stopping a very hard addiction. Although you still trust the demon, and or even love the demon, you must reject it .

Most victims are totally oblivious to anything after being exorcised, some portions in life can be forgotten, mainly, parts that were very influenced by the demons ideas. This is a direct reason why some victims start acting very violent towards people, but after, they are back to being courteous, and have no re-collection of hitting or or abusing a family member.

After watching many programs on exorcisms, I have never see anything that shows supernatural entities.Look at the video of the Russian one, nothing supernatural ever happens. Big deal the woman is growling. What does that prove. Now I would love to attend one to see for myself. Wish I knew how I could do that.

In the book Glimpses of the Devil, Dr.Peck does describe that his possessed victims will seldom resemble what he describes as a snake like look in the face. He says that their face becomes pointed, and the skin almost scaly like, but it only happens for brief seconds, and sadly his camera never caught those images. Everyone in the room could briefly see it during the exorcism, and although it startled them all, they continued with the rite.

I don't believe camera's catch everything, and proof should not display on just watching, but actually being there and believing. Believing in Exorcism almost asks the person to become skeptical and see it for themselves if they do not believe. Once again, these occurences are very very rare, so rare in fact, some exorcists will go their whole career and not receive a single exorcism.

Also the church tends to re-use the same exorcists for additional exorcisms once one has been successfully completed. The church does not take chances in doing exorcisms, therefore re-using the same exorcists makes it hard for starting exorcists to ever take part. Generally they become experienced through assistance, but it takes a lot of consideration, and paperwork in order for a Bishop or Cardinal to grant permission for an exorcist.

aquatus1, you said that you have seen exorcisms, and experienced them, I take it these are not Roman Catholic exorcisms. In order for this, you must obviously be catholic and christian, and or, a member of the family to participate. I have seen on T.V where the people stand on the podium, and cast out the demons, like something from the 700 club. They all praise the lord, and Yalleluiah, PRAISE JESUS, PRAAAAISE JESUS..... and that, is all farce. I hope that this is not what you experienced, or some pastor working out of an old car dealership.

That is such an easy excuse."the camera dosen't catch it". That sure is convenient.

Of course it is, the camera was not fixated on the possessed victims face. Even if it was, your gonna catch a few brief seconds when someones head is tossing and turning around.

Take a video camera and tape someone doing a card trick, or an illusionist at vegas. How many times are you gonna watch it and figure out how the trick was done. You can watch it forever and never find out. You actually think he cut that girl in half and put her back together ? .

Not all things can be caught on camera, and be figured out. Like I was referring too, most times, you need to be there, and experience it yourself, and see how it was done.

hmmm I wish I still had the link, but there's a news article with a taped recording of an exorcism being performed. The sounds the girl makes are not in any way human, and the exorcism itself is unsuccessful, however you can hear the chanting and the manly screaming/growling in the background. As to whether or not I believe exorcisms expel demons, I'm not sure. Do I think they solve whatever the case may be with the victim? In many cases yes, though the victim may be under a sort of hypnosis or other psychological condition. That cannot explain however the vocal ranges those people can oddly reach. I do not believe most victims are faking their reactions, in many cases they don't even appear to be aware of their actions

I listened to that. It is just audio, so it can be easily doctored. Sounds a little too much like the movie "The Exorcist".

True it can easily be doctored, I wish I could remember which news station's site it was on, would give it more credibility perhaps.

Indeed stephanie, I believe the link was

http://paranormal.about.com/library/bl_exo...m_recording.htm

This gives some audio recordings of an exorcism.

Sorry once again to reference Glimpses of the Devil, but during the exorcism in that book, an odd occurance did take place. The possessed victim, during her writhing, flipped onto her stomach. The exorcist placed a book on her back, which was the King James Bible, which had no affect on her. He then placed the version she had read at her church, and she began moaning and groaning wildely. There was no way possible to know what book she had on her back, yet she did react to that specific book.

ah yes thats it:) thanks for posting the link

edit: just noticed-at the end of that article they now have a link to a video recording of an exorcism

AND. That proves that you want to believe. Give me some video of her floating or some TK abilities,and then we will talk.

I will give you some videos of David Blaine floating, what will that make you believe ?

Cute. If possession is a reality, it can be scienticially proven. Until then, it is mental illness. Do you believe in the tooth fairy and santa too?

Can you prove that going faster then the speed of light will cause you to decrease in age ?. Science cannot prove this, yet it is taught as the law of relativity in school.

I cannot do prove that theory, yet we still take it as face value in our school system, while there are still many scientists that simply do not.

They have scientific theory. You have nothing. Why do you need so bad to believe? Is there something missing in your life?

Absolutely nothing missing in my life, but there are many other people that are, because of possession. Scientists have a theory, and the Roman Catholic Priests have a theory, why is science right, and religion wrong ?.

Like I said, I don't expect anyone to believe in Demonic , or Satanic Possession unless they see it first hand, unless of course you are a Priest, then it's part of who you are. If you believe in theory and science, why not join a Scientology cult ?.

Scientology believes in aliens. That is ridiculous as well. Religion is wrong because not only was it made up by man, but it has been the basis for most wars. Religion for most people fills in something they are missing. So what are you missing?

Why is believing in aliens ridiculous? You can't give definite proof that they don't exist and much of the evidence of their existance cant be disproven. I am an atheist, though I do believe in aliens. But you cannot compare the belief in a religion to the belief in extraterestrials. Relgion is based on a written text, believing in aliens is based on physical evidence.

Like I said previously, Im not missing anything in my life, religion completes me, it's nothing different then waking up and going to the washroom, it's part of my everyday life. But Im not gonna argue my religions beliefs, I have no need too.

I would just like to get back on topic, and continue about exorcisms, if you want to talk about religion, and the faults there of, go to the spituality section of the forum, tons of religion bashing in there.

There is no hard physical evidence on aliens. None. You have subsitiuted aliens for god. Both require faith. Once again, there has been no physical evidence that proves that ET's have been visiting us.

By the way Stephanie, your hot.

I don't substitute aliens for a god. Small children believe santa claus exists, doesn't mean he's a god to them. I believe in aliens as a scientific theory. There is physical evidence that suggests there have been visits from extraterestrials, but as a theory you wont find 100% undisputable evidence. To say there is no physical evidence whatsoever is flat out wrong.

All physical evidence on ET's has been explained. I don't want to fight with you. You are too cute. So lets agree to disagree. I have a bad habit of wanting to agree with pretty girls, so I have to stop arguing before I start agreeing with you.lol

Well, I suppose it's safe to say that I don't believe in exorcisms theirself, simply for the fact that I have never seen one in my life... but I do believe in demonic possessions and such and I definitely, obviously believe in demons.