Who said it had to be a video? Cuz then that sure puts a damper on my mill$...

Dang and I need the money...

Any other way?

Refute what?

You know what I find funny?

You said this initially:



Then, after I made my pink elephant claim, you said this:



[quote]

Well, it was you who mentionned video. What is it so hard to make a video?

What else do you propose?

You can always go to meet him and do it infront of him....

[quote=Stellar,Mar 2 2005, 01:40 AM]
[quote]
I was going to refute to Steller, but then it went all out...
[/quote]

Refute what?

You know what I find funny?

You said this initially:

[quote]Maybe if you proved that these young psychics were lying, we wouldn't have so much BS coming from a certain persons mouth
[/quote]

Then, after I made my pink elephant claim, you said this:

[quote]I don't have to, I never said there was one.
[/quote]

[quote]
[right][snapback]507708[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Wow you've got a crude sense of humor; thinking that other people's mistakes and things like that (and don't even try to ask me what other things are. I knew that you were going to ask me that...).

Okay then...here it is:

I don't have to because I did not say that the psychic phenomenon was either true or false. All I am saying that whatever claim you hear, you cannot just shove it away. A claim you hear, such as your pink elephant, must be proven yes. But the claim you hear from young psychics is not a claim like 'Its true and you know it!!" or "My stories are 100% true to everyone!!", its true to them. They believe in it, they accept it as true, it is their truth. You may have your own opinion on their truth, but its their truth.

And i'm sorry if you expected a more mature response from me, after all the tolerance I've showed. Maybe this ins't the real me, maybe i'll learn something from this.
Yeah, I didn't make the claim so I don't have to prove it. However, they are not making a claim, they are disucssing a phenomenon among themselves. They aren't "shoving it down your throat" stating its true, to them its true.
Just because they aren't scientifically aware as you(or me) are, doesn't mean that everything they say is false. An overactive mind, imaginations, I don't understand what your saying. Are you claiming their stories to result from overactive imaginations?

They have to prove to me that it is true for it to be true. But they aren't telling us that it is true at all, they are talking among themselves as in an ask-and-answer situation, they aren't nesassarily stating anything. So in my opinion, they don't have to prove what they don't try to shove down your throat.
Okay, I didn't have imaginary friends. But these people are discussing a phenomenon and posting stories that seem unbelievable, I don't think that is to be considered imagination too quickly. So what if they are posting stories to you are rubbish? I can't prove/disprove them wrong, I can only read what they are telling me they think is true. And however unbelievable it may be, I don't want to throw it away as rubbish.

You just contradicted yourself saying your going to have a "realistic" life but still insisting that you have a "pink elephant". In my mind (and I'm sure many others) a pink elephant is not realistic. But hey like you always say, maybe you would like to prove I'm wrong about pink elephants not being real

....sighs..... who started this thing about "pink elephants" anyway? Oh I remember It was Stellar

Well... okay... but mom would freak and remember its spontaneous but about once every 2 weeks.

I was pointing out that first people want me to disprove someone elses claim, and then say that I should have to prove my own claim.



And should I be the one who has to disprove their belief or should it be them who should prove it?



They have made the claim. Numerous times. Have you taken a look at a lot of the threads being made on this section?

"I can do Pyro. Now I'm working on ..., any suggestions?"

"I want to learn Pyro, how can I do it...?"

"I can see into the future, its scaring me, what should I do?"

So, as you see, they do make claims. Many of them.



Many of them, yes. Put it this way, I'd have a more serious discussion if they were older. I find it quite telling that the majority of the people who "possess" psy here are children...



They are indeed saying its true. If I tell them it could be something else, they say no, it cant. They claim they can see the future, I say they cant. They say they can move objects with their minds, I ask them to make a vid and show it to me. They make up an excuse for why they cant do that, I laugh.



Regardless, most children do and even if they dont, they still have other manifestations of their imagination.

Alright, so video tape it.



In case you didnt catch on, I wasnt being serious, I was showing you that you cant disprove it, and thus its not up to you to disprove it but for me to prove it.

You want anecdotal and material (albeit circumstantial) evidence for the existence of the paranormal then investigate these posts of mine. Here and Here!

BTW it is my understanding that James Randi's offer of a cool million is no offer at all. Some kind of hoax supposedly! I sent him this material - nothing - no response! It's out there Gentlemen - and I will give you $10,000,000 if you can put a stop to this Marauding Miskatonic Malfeance!

Well, tell you what... I'll email him myself tommorow and attempt to get a response.

Ah. So basically I'm crazy, is that it?

Belief my ass. It's not just a belief. It's what's been haunting me for what will be 2 years on my b-day.

I have never said "oooohhh I wanna learn something...." so don't try that insult. And yes, I do see these things, and remember the thing about the car crash? It happened. Refute that.

Hah! Overactive imaginations don't spawn things out of your mind like that. Yes, I do have a life out of work, but while reading a psychology manual I've found that the human mind is immune to creating such images spontaneously unless 1) they're on drugs or 2) they have some sort of serious mental deficiency, and I don't fit into either category.

How can I put what I see onto a movie? What, are you doing to wire up my brain or something?

In theory, we've all had an imaginary friend. Also in that psychology manual, I read that when you 'talk' with yourself in your mind, your communicating with the other part of you mind; the one that rarely comes out of that dark corner in the mind's room.

Prove to me that it's a manifestation of my imagination. Prove to me that I would lie about this. Prove to me about the pink elephant. Send me pictures of this on-line, because can't you use attachments? Prove to me that countless people have been lying. Prove to me that I'm not seeing these things, and most importantly, prove to me that we're even here at all and that this isn't just someone's dream and that they've manifested us here and that they think what we think and we think what they want us to think. Hey, the end of the world could be this guy waking up.

Agreed all the way.

Serial Cat Mutilations, Sleep Paralysis and the Human DNA Hyper-Dimension!

E-mail Randi and say "Mr. Randi what are your thoughts on the apparent paranormal connection between the globally-occurring, unresolved, serial cat mutilations and the dark shadowy (EVIL) presence people keep reporting as appearing during sleep paralysis episodes?" He'll hang up his keyboard on you!

Ah. So basically this Randi guy is getting proof from others claiming that you get cash but in reality he just wants the credit for getting proof? What a wimp.

No... you're jumping to conclusions.



And it could very well be actually haunting you... I dont believe theres anything paranormal about it though.



Umm... I wasnt talking about you specifically, I was talking generally...

Plus, it would be better if you said "I wanna learn something..."



I thought we just went through all this with the pink elephant?

The pink elephant just showed me that you were just imagining everything. Refute that.



Without first hand experience, I can only guess as to what you're talking about, and my guess is that it didnt just spawn out of nothing but out of previous thoughts.



How about 3) They're tired. 4) They're preoccupied?



Then howcome you were eager to videotape it only a few posts ago?



So I should have to prove everything? Im sorry... but you either say "Prove to me about the pink elephant... I'll try to prove to you its not a manifestation of my imagination and that its not a lie" or the erroneous: "Prove to me that it's a manifestation of my imagination. Prove to me that I would lie about this. I'll prove to you about the pink elephant."

The latter would be a wrong approach but at least its consistant.

Shutup. Shutup with this. You just don't understand. You don't understand anything to do with this. You are calling me crazy, and I would appreciate it if you didn't.

I had my first sight on my b-day. That's what's been haunting me.

I was imagining everything, eh? Why would I imagine it? Oh, and refute my statement and I'll refute yours.

Previous thoughts, huh? Got some pretty bad thoughts there, don't I? Seeing people dying, yeah like I'd wanna even try to imagine killing my friends.

I still don't fit the 4 categories.

Well, sorry if I mis-typed. Forget that Randi dude. He probably won't even do anything, and just claim it for himself.

Then I'm going with the latter. As long as you prove first.

ok listen, when someone makes a claim, they have to back it up, you are claiming to have abilities, you MUST back it up in order to have credibility, with out any backing you have no arguement, plain and simple

i cant just say that there is a 10th planet named "blah" in our solar system and expect people to believe me, i need to show them photos, gravitational spikes, light samples, etc etc would you believe me if i told you that i came from the future?

its not hard to have thoughts of people dying, or make up stories of people dying, just ask stephen king or any other horror writer/director
right now off the top of my head i am going to type this story

"just yesturday i had my very first vision, i was listening to the radio and all of a sudden a saw a flash of very bright white light and i saw my self in a room, it was a bedroom, i saw a male sitting at a computer, i walked over to the computer and noticed it was Stellar posting on this very website, i dont know what to tell you it was so real, he had dark colored hair and was average height and build, this lasted for about 10 mins when a man in a black suit busted through his door and shot him dead, i warn you stellar right now about my vision, and yes this is true, why would i make it up, i dont like seeing these things"

now i will openly admit i created that story, it is false, i made it up as i went on, and sole purpose of me doing it was to make people disbelieve you, so what is to tell me that you cant create a story of your own similiar to mine but instaead of trying to make people disbelieve, you try to make people actually beleive? it is very possible and for the most part is usually always the answer

and one last thing YEA YEA WE KNOW WE KNOW, WHY WOULD YOU WANT THESE POWERS, WHY WOULD YOU MAKE THEM UP, BUT THIS IS AVOIDING WHAT IS REALLY AT HAND, YOU WANT ATTENTION, ATTENTION, ATTENTION, ATTENTION, THIS IS WHY THE STORIES ARE MADE UP, THIS IS WHY YOU WONT QUIT, THIS THREAD IS 12 PAGES OF GOING BACK AND FOWARTH, IF WHAT YOU CLAIM IS ACTUALLY TRUE AND NORMAL PERSON WOULD HAVE JUST SAID FORGET IT AND MOVED ON, I KNOW I WOULD HAVE, WHAT SAY YOU?

I would like to move on, but I'm not losing my head here. I don't need attention; attention sucks. Sorry if it seems that way, but no, I really could care less aoubt what you all believe about me, as long as you know that I know what has been going on. And it's only been 4 pages... I didn't start this up till page 8... (yah, Kong, but 4 pages is alot! )

Believe what you want, but it's not true.

Close this thread.

One last thing- Why would I want attention on forums? It's pretty needless here. Now if I knew you all in real life... nah still wouldn't want the attention anywayz.

OK I just made a preliminary application to Mr. Randi drawing attention to the connection between the unresolved serial cat mutilations and the dark, ultra-evil shadowy menace (known as a Genii Cucullati) that makes its presence known during sleep paralysis episodes. Scroll up a few posts! A cool million comin up!

Maybe you are crazy if, after I said I'm not calling you crazy, you interpret it to mean "you're crazy".



Like I've been trying to make plainly evident , its up to you to prove your claim, just sas it would be up to me to prove that theres a pink elephant on my front lawn...

But, it seems you're incapable of grasping this very simple concept.



You never had a concious thought of "what if my friend dies" or "OMG I hope no one I know dies" or anything about death?



Its worth a try, isnt it?



Ahh, so you believe theres a pink elephant on my front lawn right now? Go ahead, just try to disprove that. You cant, its not falsifiable. Thats the point I was making. You cant prove a negative.

Yes, we cannot prove a negative. We can't prove something unstated as well.

All the things these people said about psi, all the pyrokinesis and empathy help and other psychic phenomenal related activities on this board was not intended to tell you that they are true, it was not intended to make a claim, but discuss a phenomenon, all its tips and tricks.

"I can do Pyro. Now I'm working on ..., any suggestions?"

"I want to learn Pyro, how can I do it...?"

"I can see into the future, its scaring me, what should I do?"

Should these sentences be claims, I don't see how. A claim to a phenomenon, condemning it true, I don't think anyone of these are that definite. They are not argueing wether psi is real or not, they are asking questions about psi. They aren't at all trying to shove it in your throat that these abilities are real, they are instead reaching out to the other believers in the thread who so believes in the psychic phenomenon, who so accept it as true. They aren't declaring it true, they are discussing something they accept as true, and so they reach out to other people whom in turn also accept it as true.

Steller, your pink elephant. You said it is in your yard, congratulations. You now live with a pink elephant! But who am I to say its false? I did not claim your pink elephant as 'false' or 'unrealistic', I actually didn't claim anything.... so, not claiming anything, I don't have to prove it. And at the post way back, i'm still sorry you expected much more than that from me, I hope you can forgive me.

A phenomenon unexplained for example, the psychic phenomenon, is unexplained meaning it is either true, false, or true and false(unexplained). The psychic phenomenon, o they are talking about it, asking questions, they are reaching out to the other believers who accept it as true, they are not nesassarily telling you its true, because to them its true. To you, its not and thats fine. Its just that even though you don't believe in it, you want proof and all, and still they don't show it, you don't have to declare it false, its still a true/false thing, so its unexplained(but they, the believers accept it as true). And yet they keep discussing about the phenomenon in an ask-and-answer situation...they ask, some answer, discussion. The phenomenon is unexplained, they aren't telling us its true, its true to them, so they continue their ask-and-answer discusstion to each other because to each other, they accept as true.

I like what was said before. If your making a claim(fantastical or otherwise), it is up to that individual to prove it. Otherwise, it is bs. You want us to believe the claims of pshyic abilities, just show us. Don't make up excuses, or say it is beneath you. SHOW US OR SHUT UP. Either your just a kid with nothing better to do then claim these things or perhaps you have some mental issues. Anybody who believes things with out proof is desperately missing something in their life. Fix the problems , you don't need the paranormal to make yourself whole. Even as a kid I was logical. Where the hell is logic in this thread.

do you honestly believe it is even possible for stellar to have a pink elephant in his yard? no you do not, because why?

the same reasons aply why someone would not think kong is being truthful

Kong is claiming powers that no one has ever been able to scientifically docmument. Of course we don't believe him. Sorry I was working and reading. I did not pay full attention to what seeking said. Sorry Seeking.

1. In their opening threads, they make the claim that they can do it usually.
2. If they want to discuss it, then I still can discuss my view of it, can I not?



No... usually they're saying "I have so and so keneisis. How can I make it better?" or "How can I do so and so kenisis?"



So you wouldnt be bothered if I went around saying "Christianity IS an evil religion. Nothing about it is right. Its the work of the devil. Blah blah blah. What do you think?"

You wouldnt be offended at all?



Exactly, you didnt make the claim, I did, so its up to me to prove it, or stop telling others that it exists.



Most of the threads in this section are filled with kids claiming they have powers. Theres the occasional one saying "I dont have these powers, but I'd like to hear your explenation of them." and such... I dont have a problem with the latter, but I do give my opinion on the "powers"



I more commonly declare THEM as false, for whatever reason. Remember PPAN? She made claims and claims and claims... then when she tried to support it, she ended up conceding to the notion that maybe she couldnt really see through things.

If something doesnt make sense and is unsupported by any evidence whatsoever, and people who are asked for evidence suddenly come up with excuses for not providing it... why shouldnt I classify it as probably false?



Thats what seeking was saying...

DaKong, you are not alone...Clairvoyance is something hard to control, but you can tell your brain to only show you the good things. It worked for me. But you have to try really hard.

Now that I've had time to sleep on it, there very well could be a pink elephant on you lawn. Sorry if I sounded a little arrogant back there...

*wipes forhead*

Glad to know that!

I refuse to argue about this anymore.
It may be possible.
We'll never know.
Just as you guys may never know the truth (don't take that in a bad way)

For God' sake the reason I even came here and that my friends recommended this place is so I learned to shun the images.

Please don't wanna argue anymore...

I feel insulted.

So, you believe that theres a pink elephant on my lawn?

There very possible could be.

So you think there is?

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't have a clue where you live, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one, as I can never prove that there is or isn't.

1) Yes they claim that they can do it, but they are accepting the phenomenon as true. They aren't trying to declare that the phenomenon is true. What they believe is true, is true to them. But what they say outside their beliefs, making a statement that its true, is something to be proven.
Yeah, thats asking a question. And since they have accepted these powers as true, they cannot ask questions in a truthful manner, can they?
You know me better because i'm christian . Couldn't you keep it out ?

But honestly, I won't be bothered too much. I won't go on and call you out, I would just ask questions to how you see it that way because what you have stated is an opinion.
You don't have to stop telling people that it exists because you say that an elephant is in your yard, you've accepted that as true. But do you have to prove it? I would think that you have to prove it if someone......
You may give your opinion on these powers, its your free will.
Because you haven't proved them false. So they can't prove it true, you can say its probably false. But saying 'Its false', isn't going to cut it. You need to prove it.

And yes, I do remember PPAN. She claimed these powers, but I won't give them up as 'false' or 'true'. I would rather leave it open as something unexplained.

So conclusively, what ever they claim, they must prove. But to others who believe, it is optional, because believers are willing to believe(trust).










*takes out clipboard and checks a square* Another victory over me Steller, my you are doing fine for a 17 year old .

man...my throat really hurts after yelling so much crunk

So... why dont you believe it if you cant disprove it?



If they say they have the ability, that means that the ability is true. Just by saying they have it, they declared it as true.



And can I not respond in a truthful manner and ask them to prove their abilities if they have them?

Which reminds me... There was supposed to be a hurricane in Australia a few weeks back (hurricane or snowstorm, I forget which I asked for)...



And if I continue insisting its a fact?



Well, ur right. No one's forcing me to prove it, but I should if I make the claim.



But its not falsifiable, therefor you cant prove its false. Take for example the sun rising. I say that the sun isnt going to rise tommorow. You cant disprove that, can you? Not right now, anyway. Does that mean you shouldnt think "ok, that claim is probably false..."?

Man Steller, i've already given up. Can't you accept a victory when offered?

I've already learned a lesson from you, and its a lesson not to be soon forgotten. And yet, such lessons will be taken unto account and used when needed.

Why can't we all just get along to begin with?

You said an elephant was in your yard as an attempt to catch me in the lines. However, I know that I cannot prove or disprove that, as you cannot prove or disprove what's happening to me (please don't take that the wrong way). What you say about me is a projection of your own reality, as what I believe is a projection of mine. Life is but an entity that cannot be safeguarded or chategorized by our every desire; we must accept what is true. I accept that there could be a pink elephant in your yard, as I cannot prove or disprove that claim, though I know that neither can you about what I 'believe' I see. I don't mean to be insulting and I hope that you don't take any of this the wrong way, but I just want you to know that whatever is going on with me, whatever is happening, if I'm insane or really am tapping into psi energy, then that's just the way it is. We all have some sort of skeptic; Hell, betcha 5 mil that the El Chupacabra doesn't exist, but you don't see me blatantly accusing people of lying.

I might be psychopathic. You might have pink elephants in your yard. I may be spontaneously clairvoyant. You may be flat-out lying about those elephants, but we will both never know. I will probably never walk in your yard to prove the existence of the elephants, as you will never be able to walk in my mind to prove that I am not clairvoyant.

We all have our beliefs and our skeptism traits, and I respect your beliefs, though I just want to say that we've been arguing back and forth without any supporting arguements on either side. Neither of us has drawn up a conclusion (that I've seen, at least), and humanity may never know if psi exists or not.

It's been fun debating with you, even if at times I have felt insulted, it's still been a good time. Well, cya. Cuz I neither admit defeat or claim the winnings.

DaKong

P.S. Good debating skills!

Dakong - why do you care so much if Stellar etc believe your claims? You have every right to ignore them just as they have every right to be skeptical of your claims. Be more choosy with your battles, and know who you're battling before you get this deep into it. I haven't read everything Stellar has posted, but I don't ever remember him backing off or admitting being wrong/uninformed/one-upped etc. (If you have, Stellar, I apologize ). As long as YOU know what you know to be true, it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks - especially on an internet forum...

Stellar - I have a blue elephant on my lawn that thinks your pink elephant is cute He wants to know if she has a boyfriend?

I understand.

P.S. I feel so left out... don't have an elephant that has colors on it... gonna go paint mine green

no there is no way to prove or disprove that stellar has a pink elephant in his yard, however, there is a way for stellar to prove it, if stellar says he has a digi-cam then all he has to do is take a simple picture and post it on here and presto, youve got your proof if stellar can not do this would you still believe he had the elephant on his front yard?

no it is not up to stellar to prove you have these abilities, it is up to you and you alone, you allready stated you have the abilities (digi-cam) so now all you have to do is put it on here and presto, we've got our proof, now if you cant do this, why should we believe you?

exactly

Seeking, it's done, so stop being such a jerk about it. I admit that Stellar could have an elephant in his yard, and I never insulted you before, so please just stop because 1) I got no cash and 2) Even if I did, you'd probably still be a skeptic.

Let's just all be friends, please!

oh dont get me wrong i have nothing wrong with you as a person, or anyone on the board for that matter, dont take anything personal, its all in the spirit of debating, we cool man

Understand.
Well, the debate's over, now what? (bet ya 5 bucks a mod will close this thread soon after this is posted )

And do you believe me or dont you.

Theres no middle. Its either believe or dont. You can think its possible but yet still only either believe it or not believe its the case.



Im not asking whether you accept that there could be one... I'm asking you if you accept that there is one.



And should I go around insisting that there is one, yet not prove it?





My pink elephant is offended! Its a he!





Yes, Dakong... is there any good reason for you to believe I have a pink elephant on my front yard?

Okay... let me get this over with...
First of all, I have no cash whatsoever, so forget dig-cam.
Second of all, the only good reason for me to say you have a pink elephant is that you say you do, and I cannot prove or disprove that claim
Third of all, my green elephant feels lonesome
Fourth, I refuse to argue about this any longer. You think what you want, I think what I want, kinda like with religions. You have your beliefs, I have my beliefs, and that's never going to change.

Last, I've had numerous PM's about my avatar (quote: what the hell is it?!), so here it is:

Note- It's very mindless and insane

Thats not a good reason.

That's the exact same thing with psi. Unless you have these powers, you cannot prove or disprove it.

P.S. Wow! Debating's fun... Though now I know how George Bush and John Kerry felt...