while reading old threads that contained posts about Noah's Ark i came across a post that asked if the flood were true where did all the water go

something occurred to me

is it possible all the water went into the ocean ?

i mean maybe the ocean wasnt at the level it is now

seems that could help explain why some structures, like that place in Japan, are now underwater

http://www.lauralee.com/japan.htm

or here : http://www.crystalinks.com/atlantisasher.html

Not really... As you know, gravity pulls on water. The rain must have filled up the oceans and then some to cover the land and mountains. Since the ocean was already pretty much filled, where did the excess water go to?

what evidence is there that the oceans were already pretty much full ?

as now the earth is 75% covered with water

maybe before the flood it was only 50% covered ?

this is just an idea, im in no way stating it a believed fact
just something to toss around

Yes, but in order for there to have been a flood to reach the heights of mountains, where everything was flooded so that nothing could survive, the oceans would have been filled up along with the rest of the earth.

only if the story is to be taken literally

i believe it is accepted the bible was told from the perspective of the peoples knowledge of the time

meaning if your world(your know of world) was flooded, then in your mind the entire world was flooded

doesnt mean that is actually true

if your entire vision of existance is a desert you may write that the world is hot, when in fact the entire world isnt hot

Alright, well, from that perspective, the flood could have simply been a tsunami. Eitherway, the water for the flood (assuming it rained) would have came from bodies of water initially, and then pourred down on the world to flood it...

thought there was evidence of water in the atmosphere ?

and we do find dry lake beds and rivers maybe the water came from there

something has to explain the buildings now being underwater

When one examines the biblical passages, it is clear that the flood was global. Genesis 7:11 states that "all of the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." It is apparent from Genesis 1:6-7 and 2:6 that the pre-flood environment was much different from that which we experience today. Based on these and other biblical descriptions, as well as the fossil record and present geological findings, it is reasonably speculated that at one time the earth was covered by some kind of water canopy. This canopy could have been a vapor canopy or could have consisted of rings, somewhat like Saturn's ice rings. This, in combination with a major layer of water underground, both being released upon the land (Genesis 2:6) would have resulted in a global flood.



The clearest verses that show the extent of the flood are Genesis 7:19-23: "And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive" (NKJV).



In the above passage we not only find the word "all" being used repeatedly, but we also find phrases such as "and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered," "the waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered" (enough to allow the ark to pass over them safely), and "all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man," etc. If these descriptions are not meant to describe a universal flood covering the whole earth, I don't know how God could have made it clearer. Also, if the flood was only localized, why did God instruct Noah to build an ark instead of merely causing the animals to migrate and telling Noah to do the same? And why did He instruct Noah to build an ark large enough to house all of the different kinds of land animals found on the earth today. One might note that even dinosaurs start out small, and it would not have been necessary for Noah to have brought fully grown animals onto the ark.



God did instruct Noah to put two of every land animal (aquatic wildlife was excluded) onto the ark (Genesis 6:19-22) with the exception of ceremonial clean animals and for all birds, of which he was to have seven of each kind on the ark (Genesis 7:2-3).



Peter also describes the universality of the flood in 2 Peter 3:6-7 in which he states: "by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" (NKJV). In these verses Peter compares the "universal" coming judgment to the flood of Noah's time and states that the world that then existed was flooded with water. Also, God’s promise (Genesis 8:21; 9:11, 15) never again to send such a flood has been broken repeatedly if it were only a local flood. Further, all men in the world today are said to have descended from Noah’s three sons (Genesis 9:1, 19) and many later Biblical writers accepted the historicity of the worldwide Flood (Isaiah 54:9; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; Hebrews 11:7). Lastly, the Lord Jesus Christ believed in the universal Flood and took it as the type of the coming destruction of the world when He returns (Matthew 24:37-39; Luke 17:26, 27).



There are many extra-biblical evidences that point to a worldwide catastrophe such as a global flood. The vast fossil graveyards found on every continent, the large amount of coal deposits that would require the rapid covering of vast quantities of vegetation, the fact that oceanic fossils are found upon mountain tops around the world, the over 270 flood stories from all parts of the world, and the large extent of geological formations showing vast layers of sedimentary deposits (including those found in the Grand Canyon) all lend credence to the occurrence of a global flood.




http://www.gotquestions.org/global-flood.html

Slightly out of topic...but is it possible a large amount of mass (ice or solid) entered the ocean and caused it to rise...like when you put bricks into a bath or something....simply rises....say amount of mass from a moon / meteors that fragmented down to our planet ?


would have to be LARGE enough to cause the rise...either that or we really did once have a Firmament....

It would take both ice caps to melt completely to pull this off. And even then, there would still be tiny caps of the highest mountains jutting above the water.

Also, about the meteor thing, the rock would have to be large enough to displace enough of the ocean to cover all the land, around the entire world. That rock would be HUGE to say the least.

And the known world back then consisted of the middle-east, southern europe, south-east asia, Indus, and middle to northern africa. With that note, I would tend to think that the "Flood" was only regional, ie the Med. Sea. It is known that the small island of Cyprus was at one time connected to land, and has since had part of it submerged. This is also where new investigations are looking for Atlantis.

Could be? Not sure...

At least this is what I've read. Be gentle...

For a global tidal wave it would not have to be that huge.

The Bibel only tells one of the many variations of the story

~Thanato

didn't they find seashells and dried-clams on the tops of high mountains in South America?

The story of the Flood most likely comes from an area were it rained to much a river swelled up and some people and animales were on a barge and they floated out to see, and when they landed they told of there story.

~Thanato

According to several scales and models that I have looked into. In order to create a large enough tidal wave to cover the entire globe from top to bottom, it would have to be at least 9 miles wide (about the size of Manhatten Island), and it would have to hit central in the Pacific ocean, this and anything larger than this, are considered "world killers". At least that's what I've read...

Also about the sea shell thing on the mountains...This is simply because of moving techtonic plates. As you more than likely know, when plates move, it causes an Earth Quake, and when they collide, they create mountains. Of course this occurs over millions of years.

Anyway, off work now....laters

This I have known for years, But thanks anyway

Since water goes in a cycle, I don't think that much water can suddenly appear from nowhere or disappear into nowhere. I think the sea levels were lower than now, and when the glaciers melted at the end of the ice age, the water levels rose. As for covering the tops of mountains, every island is a mountain from under water. I think it's a global flood, because there are myths from the mayans in the Yucatan that speak of a geat flood. There are also sunken cities in japan, the bay of bengal, and off of alexandria.

as for , "where did the water go ? "

how about this idea ?

sometimes there are earthquakes that open cracks in the ground

well, maybe there were quakes that opened holes in the ocean floor ? the water level lowered as the water rushed in and filled this new cavity.

is there a way you can tell me that isnt possible ?

Sure. Take for example an impact crater. With an impact crater, you have the whole in the ground... but then you also have a ring around the crater with sand that is higher than the ground outside of the ring.

Imagine that there was a crack in the middle of the atlantic... the water in the atlantic would lower, but one land mass (say NA in this instance) got pushed in order to create that crack. That would result in the pacific water level rising. When the world is flooded... a crack in the atlantic would suck the water into it... but the water would be "compacted" on the other side of the landmass raising the water level there... the gravity then pulls down the water to "smoothen" it out again...

Action/reaction

The amount of water stays the same in both cases.

This might be a little out there for some-people but I will give you my 2cents.

Throughout History there has always been records of Huge Floods that covered the world and ended many cultures. It might just be the our solar system is made up of 12 planets and Nirbu the 12 planet on a olipitcal orbit comes around every 8000 years or so. (can't remember the exact date)

So as it comes closer to our little planet the huge gravity force pulls on all the water mass and hence creating huge floods world wide.

I am not an expert on this, so have a look for a writer by the Name of Stichen (sp) I have read a few of his books and they are interesting to say the least.

12 planets huh? whats the 10th and 11th?

How come the 12th with this huge gravity hasnt been spotted?

Sitchen is a fraud. He claims that he and only he can read the sumerian tablets... his stories dont match with any of the *professionals* that have deciphered the sumerian tablets.

ET's Daddy is right
Read Graham Hancock's "Underworld"
12,000 yrs ago, the Laurentian Dam broke at the end of the ice age and not only raised sea levels 30 feet around the globe but the resulting pressure on th ocean's floor caused all sorts of earthquake and volcanic activity that reduced the population of the earth and destroyed many of ancient civilization's greatest cities. Any way read the book.

ok pls consider this example ,and maybe i just dont get what youre saying

take a bowling ball.....glue continents to the sides of the ball........fill the spaces with water.......(yes i know the water wont stay, but work with me here).........now put a crack in the ball........the water level lowers as it fills the crack.........but the continents on the ball didnt shift because of the crack and make the water on the other side rise.........though, if we use your theory, that the water in the pacific would rise......that would help explain the underwater buildings in japan

Graham Hancock has a credibility problem though.



The problem you're having with understanding is because you're using a crack. Even a crack displaces the rest of the ball, but so minutely you dont even notice it. Unless you're proposing that some of the material that the bowling ball was made of suddenly dissappeared and thats what formed the crack?

ok then, the debris from some of these cracks goes into caves and caverns underwater.

there ya go, the debris didnt disappear and the water level on the other side didnt rise



unless you wanna tell me underwater caves dont exist

The underwater caves are filled with water are they not? As rocks fill the underwater caves, the same volume of water is pushed out of the cave.

no, caves under the ocean water

unless you contend the water goes through to the other side

there must be air pockets somewhere on the journey to the center of the earth

Caves UNDER the ocean floor? Im not sure if thats possible under that immense pressure... ESPECIALLY enough big caves to account for the disappearance of all that water...

ok the water went into the marianas trench

As I've said before, the water would have to go into the trench before the world was flooded in the first place... so if theres water in the marianas trench already, how could more go there?

the world flooded, there was an earthquake that created the trench, the wayer went in the trench

As I've said, I've already explained that. There was an earthquake, right? One land mass had to shift position to create that trench... that means the water in the vicinity of the trenched lowered, but the water on the other side of the landmass raised, and that rise and drop neutralise themselves.

Think about it this way. Fill your bathtub with water. Put your hands together and put them under water. Watch the water level. Now, seperate your hands. Watch the waterlevel. Once the waves caused by you moving your hands die down, the water level is going to be the same.

seems what youre proposing would only work in a closed system

as if the pacific and atlantic were land locked

in that instance i would agree, if you push north america closer to asia the pacific would rise

but it isnt a closed system. the water is distributed evenly around the world. as you must know it's really one body of water just seperated by names

therefore, if you push the americas closer to asia to create the trench as you say, the water fills the trench then becomes evenly ditributed again

Not really...



Yes, I know... thats what I'm telling you. In order to open up the trench, the landmasses that are closing it must be moved... so either the west or the east landmass moves. If either one moves, the atlantic area shrinks, therefor making the waterlevel rise there, while the trench created by the landmasses moving lowers the water level there. BUT, since, as you said and I've been saying for a long time now, the water is distributed evenly, so the rise in water level and the drop in water level cancel each other out, makeing for 1 even water level, the same as it would have been before the earthquake.



But if you push the americas closer to asia, the water between them gets pushed and then redistributed which would cancel that out.

ok, youre just running around in circles

the level of the water doesnt stay the same it goes down, the amount of the water stays the same

if i have a cup with extendable sides. the cup is 1 foot tall but the sides will allow it to extend up anothe foot
if i put in 6 inches of water, the water is 6 inches from the top
if i extend the sides up, or drop the bottom down (the effect of creating a crater), the water is now 1 foot 6 inches from the top but there is still the same amount of water in the cup, 6 inches.

For a crater that big to exist, would have to be created by a insanely big meteor.
***

Big local floods are possible but a world wide flood would be impossible. Event with both ice caps melted and almost perpetual rain (condensed) it would hardly flood the continents.

the marianas trench is indeed big enough to cause a noticeable drop in water levels

Its not me running around in circles... its either you not understanding what I'm saying and why it happens like that, or you not wanting to accept it.



I'll try this again, but slower.

Before and after the earthquake that causes the trench, theres the same amount of solid mass, right? (solid mass=anything like what the landmass is made of, but it could be underwater.)



Yes... but now, if you put that cup into a bathtub, completely submersed and extended it, would the waterlevel change? No, it wouldnt.

well i told you there could have been underground caverns for either the land mass or water to occupy and yet you refuse to accept this as a possibility

Underwater cavers would already be filled with water... and theres not enough of them to account for where all the water went. Underocean (below the ocean) caverns (assuming there was enough to suck up all the water from the surface, which isnt the case) couldnt really exist under all that pressure I'd imagine and if, for a brief moment it did exist, it would have collapsed long before the flood.

and you know that because ?

Because I remember hearing it somewhere and because I know that the pressure is so immense that a pocket of air couldnt hold.

You're not problem solving, you're rationalising.

and youre avoiding

you expect everyone on this board to provide links or some sort evidence to back up their idea, and yet when you are asked you have none.

now i state there are caverns in the earth below the level of the water, air pockets.

they exist at above levels so why not there ?

and your only retort is basically, because i said so ?

would you accept that from anyone else ?

as a surfer i have to agree with you et's daddy i a bunch of people that have been pushed into under water caves that are created by the tides whos to say that they do not exist farther out.

What am I avoiding? I just answered your question!



You didnt ask me for links. You want me to find links fine. Might you suggest a phrase to search for?

It is commonly accepted by science that there might have been a regional flood, but not a world wide flood. You're the one challenging that, you provide links. I havent seen you providing any.



Christ! I just told you why they under ocean cavers probably dont exist! The deeper you go, the more pressure there is! Holy hell!

I'll find links showing you that the deeper you go, theres more pressure, but you'll have to wait till tommorow because I'm about to go to sleep.

Interesting bit of information.....

The biblical account of the deluge speaks about two sources of water to accomplish the end result of a global flood. Genesis 7:11-12 (KJV) says, "…the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights." The original purpose of the fountains of the deep is given in Genesis 2: 5- 6 (KJV) stating, "… for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground." Clearly, before the fall of man, the only source of water was from this mist that apparently drew the "fountains of the deep" as its source.
Taken literally, it is obvious that the Bible does not say that forty days and forty nights of rain in itself, caused the Earth to be completely submerged by water. Most of the water making up the deluge appears to have originated from this curious location in the Earth called the fountains of the deep. Moreover, if in the recent past, the Earth was completely immersed in water, it had to drain somewhere.
Some have suggested that the waters submerging the Earth are now our present day oceans. This theory is based on the assumption that the pre-flood Earth had a much smoother and uniform surface topography. Further, due to the hydrodynamics of the flood and other catastrophic events such as volcanoes and earthquakes, the post-flood topography is proposed to result in much deeper ocean floors and fully capable of handling the water runoff. However, while these conclusions may be valid, they can’t be scientifically verified.
While the Bible clearly states that the source of extra water to complete the deluge originated from the fountains of the deep, its actual location in the Earth has only been spoken of in generalities. One of the keys to this mystery could lie in determining whether there is a known area in the Earth that is capable of holding so much water.
The Earth is composed of a series of layers called the crust, mantle, and core. The crust is the outermost portion of the earth and extends about 25 miles down. The mantle extends further down about 1800 miles and the core makes up the remainder of the Earth. Since the biblical fountains of the deep must be located in the Earth, a closer study of the mantle composition may provide valuable insight to what is stated in scripture.
The mantle is 62% of the Earth’s total volume and is separated into three areas called the upper mantle, transition zone, and lower mantle. The upper mantle has already been demonstrated to have the capability of holding approximately the amount of water to fill all the oceans once. The transition zone is also believed to be capable of holding approximately six times the water in all the oceans. While both of these areas in the Earth’s mantle demonstrate a tremendous potential reservoir for water, they still do not possess what is considered the minimum amount of water required to cover all the mountains of the Earth (~8 times the oceans).
Recently, a study of the Earth’s lower mantle revealed some interesting conclusions about water retention. The Earth’s lower mantle is believed to consist predominantly of Magnesium-pervoskite, Magnesiowustite, and Calcium- pervoskite. While it is well known that the solubility of water in these pure anhydrous materials is negligible, the authors believed that the addition of common impurities to the mix could change this parameter significantly. They discovered that by adding increasing amounts of trivalent cations such as alumina and Iron III oxide as representative impurities, they were able to substantially increase the amount of water that the lower mantle materials were able to hold. In fact, when natural impurities are taken into account, the lower mantle’s composition had the potential of storing up to five times more water than is present in the oceans today.
Discovering that the Earth’s lower mantle has this type of capacity to hold water makes the total mantle area a prime candidate for the biblical "fountains of the deep." This conclusion also demonstrates once again that while scripture does not tell us everything, when it does speak, it is word for word accurate and inerrant.

http://www.creationists.org/patrickyoung/article11.html

well yes, and ty

but im trying to say that these caves are under the bottom of the ocean

pockets of air below the ocean floor that can collapse and be filled with water

thus causing the water level of the ocean to recede

a large enough pocket would cause the level to recede noticably

*my reply was to dark

I did some searching for you just a minute ago actually.

http://www.seed.slb.com/en/scictr/watch/nmr/

"There are no hollow caverns deep in the earth"

there are absolutly no air pockets because SEED says so ?