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user posted image rFirst, some figures. Last year a poll found that 85 per cent of Americans believe God created the universe. In Nigeria, 98 per cent claimed always to have believed in God, while nine out of 10 Indonesians said they would die for their God or religious beliefs, says the ICM Research survey, which questioned 10,000 people.In Ireland, 87 per cent of the population believe in God, a survey by the Market Research Bureau of Ireland found in January. Rather than rocking their faith, 19 per cent said tragedies such as the Asian tsunami, which killed 300,000 people, bolstered their belief. Polls have their faults, but if the figures are even remotely right they show the prevalence of faith in the modern world.Faith has long been a puzzle for science, and it's no surprise why. By definition, faith demands belief without a need for supporting evidence, a concept that could not be more opposed to the principles of scientific inquiry.So why do so many people believe? And why has belief proved so resilient as scientific progress unravels the mysteries of plagues, floods, earthquakes and our understanding of the universe? By injecting nuns with radioactive chemicals, by scanning the brains of people with epilepsy and studying naughty children, scientists are working out why. When the evidence is pieced together, it seems that evolution prepared what society later moulded: a brain to believe.

One factor in the development of religious belief was the rapid expansion of our brains as we emerged as a species, says Todd Murphy, a behavioural neuroscientist at Laurentian University in Canada. As the frontal and temporal lobes grew larger, our ability to extrapolate into the future and form memories developed. "When this happened, we acquired some very new and dramatic cognitive skills. For example, we could see a dead body and see ourselves in that position one day. We could think, 'that's going to be me'."That awareness of impending death prompted questions: why are we here? What happens when we die?

user posted image View: Full Article | Source: smh.com.au
tupac amaru
This explains why we believe, but in no way names who we should worship....I am putting in "Dibs" for the Deist Creator! w00t.gif
Loge
It is not that evolution prepared what society later moulded: a brain to believe or to worship this or that kind of Deity! no.gif

But rather, a brain that evolution prepared as a vessel for a human mind capable of understanding his/her own, individual, particular Deity within! yes.gif
STIX
Its been proven that there is 1 cubic cm of plasma (in total) in our brain within the cells, and that this plasma survives after the body dies.
creation myths all over the world involve light, "let there be light"...most religions believe the universe was created from gods light...and buddhism in particular describes our souls as liquid light, which is a pretty good description of what plasma actually is.
The word "god" has so many different interpretations, but ultimatley they must all be the same thing. I believe that to understand what this "god" is we must find something which combines science and religion.
Walken
Its like I always say. If you can understand god, you become god.

You can't put the almighty under a microscope.
coopermen
While their is place for scientific study, I don't believe it will get us very far when it comes to religion. I think their is a deep seeded need to believe death is not the end of life, but a new beginning. The fear that their is nothing but blackness haunts many people, especially those who risk their lives for a living. And as for becoming God....Don't many scientists already believe they are God?
Loge
QUOTE(Walken @ Mar 3 2005, 12:01 PM)
Its like I always say. If you can understand god, you become god.

You can't put the almighty under a microscope.
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It is stated that the human being is the Microcosm of the Macrocosm, meaning, a small (mikros in Greek), representative system (world or order; kosmos in Greek) having analogies to a larger (makros in Greek) system (world or order; kosmos in Greek) in constitution, configuration, or development; it is evident that present Intellectual Animals (from Latin Anima – Soul; psyche in Greek), do not have an inner-vision (Skeptesthai in Greek) in order to have a right conception of God. devil.gif

This present tiny, micro-being of the planet Earth, has only a micro-scope (small conception) of the Almighty Macro-One (God); therefore his definitions of the 'Makros' will always be 'Mikros' because his mind cannot Skeptesthai (scope or see) beyond its limits; thus he is a mikros-skeptesthai or a being with a tiny vision, or better said: a Skeptic. tongue.gif
STIX
QUOTE(coopermen @ Mar 3 2005, 10:55 AM)
While their is place for scientific study, I don't believe it will get us very far when it comes to religion. I think their is a deep seeded need to believe death is not the end of life, but a new beginning. The fear that their is nothing but blackness haunts many people, especially those who risk their lives for a living.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And as for becoming God....Don't many scientists already believe they are God?
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these statements are given within the context of the word god meaning an entity in the sky watching us.

If there is no god, then we MUST be part of a natural cycle.

Why would something like life form if there is no reason for it to form?

There must be a reason, and this reason must be inter-weaved with other systems, other dimensions, other states of matter beyond our physical solids, liquids, and gasses.
Dezmond
People who are scared mostly believe in God.

I don't and I can see I am much happier then most people who do believe, people are stricted that they can't do anything. But i have worked in a videostore and most strict religious people bought the 18+ movies. Which really shows me how corrupted religion is.

I know some people who are really nice and I can get along with them really good, but the people who are really ill-minded are outnumbered.
I really can understand the quote ''Don't let a fairy tale control your live'' showing a picture of God and Jezus.
coopermen
The words God and religion seem to be interconnected in many cultures. The questions possed are the very questions that they believe will be answered when they pass on. It stems from the belief that only their Creator can answer these questions. It is my belief that any significant scientific finding would simply be ignored by religious fanatics. That doesn't mean we should stop looking by any means.
HowdyDoo
It's disheartening to hear skeptics and unbelievers dismiss man's innate need to believe in God as the result of ignorance and fear.

I'm neither ignorant nor fearful. And I choose to believe in God.

As for the religious fanatics out there--why group all believers into the same pot? The majority of believers are educated, open-minded individuals. And remember, we are the majority!

I've found that fanatic skeptics abound. To me, they seem to be just as narrow-minded as those they view in disdain.

In my opinion, extremism in any form can be a sign of ignorance. I'll respect your decision not to believe. Please respect my decision to believe.
whoa182
QUOTE
I've found that fanatic skeptics abound. To me, they seem to be just as narrow-minded as those they view in disdain.


No, Skeptics are just not so gullible to believe in everything you tell them! They search for the truth themselves. Thats why they test things first, you cannot test god, you cannot see god, you cannot talk to god, god does not talk back to you.

Whether you like it or not, god and religion is under the microscope and we are getting to the bottom of this to understand why people believe, unfortanatly some of you here are in the group of those who believe in a blind faith.

Im a skeptic about aliens and ufo's on earth ( although I believe they migh exist, I dont KNOW they exist )

Im a skeptic about religion, but I am a bigger skeptic when it comes to this because its something that no modern man can prove, we have to much evidence of how life is here without religion, So its you that is ignoring the evidence here.

The biggest difference is:

I question my beliefs and research them
YOU just believe what someone tells you, what your religion says, you believe what some men said about 2000 years ago, that is the problem. Men 2000 years ago did not KNOW the millions of new discoveries we know.

I mean Lightening, they thought that was something to do with gods ! theres hundreds of other things they associated with god that now seem so stupid
Loge
QUOTE(Dezmond @ Mar 3 2005, 02:49 PM)
People who are scared mostly believe in God.

I don't and I can see I am much happier then most people who do believe, people are stricted that they can't do anything. But i have worked in a videostore and most strict religious people bought the 18+ movies. Which really shows me how corrupted religion is.

I know some people who are really nice and I can get along with them really good, but the people who are really ill-minded are outnumbered.
I really can understand the quote ''Don't let a fairy tale control your live'' showing a picture of God and Jezus.
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user posted image
Your babyish ignorant statements were overwhelmingly frightening my digestive system; I was experiencing a laughing-vertigo while reading them! rofl.gif

So, you have worked in a video-store in order to help the most strict religious people to buy the 18+ movies; which really shows me how much you have cooperated with the corruption of religious zealots. tongue.gif

Take note of this:
Religion is not scared of ignorance, thus, it does not need to be defended by ignoramuses; but rather, when religious’ precepts are practically applied to our consciousness, then Religion courageously defends intelligence against the gloomy ignorance of our minds! happy.gif

HowdyDoo
QUOTE(whoa182 @ Mar 4 2005, 12:34 AM)
QUOTE
I've found that fanatic skeptics abound. To me, they seem to be just as narrow-minded as those they view in disdain.


No, Skeptics are just not so gullible to believe in everything you tell them! They search for the truth themselves. Thats why they test things first, you cannot test god, you cannot see god, you cannot talk to god, god does not talk back to you.

Whether you like it or not, god and religion is under the microscope and we are getting to the bottom of this to understand why people believe, unfortanatly some of you here are in the group of those who believe in a blind faith.

Im a skeptic about aliens and ufo's on earth ( although I believe they migh exist, I dont KNOW they exist )

Im a skeptic about religion, but I am a bigger skeptic when it comes to this because its something that no modern man can prove, we have to much evidence of how life is here without religion, So its you that is ignoring the evidence here.

The biggest difference is:

I question my beliefs and research them
YOU just believe what someone tells you, what your religion says, you believe what some men said about 2000 years ago, that is the problem. Men 2000 years ago did not KNOW the millions of new discoveries we know.

I mean Lightening, they thought that was something to do with gods ! theres hundreds of other things they associated with god that now seem so stupid
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I agree that there are many who believe blindly through ignorance. Often times, people follow a religious lifestyle without any good reason.

However, you are wrong to generalize and stereotype believers, and even more wrong to assume I am one of them. I do not believe simply because someone has told me to, or because of tradition. I believe because my life experiences have given me personal proof of God's existence.

It seems you haven't experienced anything that leads to believe in God, whereas, I have. I do not believe "blindly" as you say. I believe because I have personal knowledge. I have examined my belief, I have lived it, and at times I had questioned it.

The difference is this:

You refuse to even entertain the idea that a God may exist, and your hostility towards those to do believe serves to support my statements. I respect those who do not wish to believe, but I resent those who think me ignorant or unenlightened for my belief.

Of course we should question our beliefs; it is the only way you can grow in faith.
I have no desire to convert non-believers. I cannot prove to you that God exists, nor do I wish to. I simply wish to show that believers can reach their faith through education and their own experiences. I believe that man is much more than a bunch of molecules. Therein lies our greatest difference.

And Loge...well said!
whoa182
Alright, But them experiences, did god actually talk to you?

Did god specificly do something for you or help your family in anyway? without human help? Did he work through somebody as some may say..

These experiences, how you know they are anything to do with god, Since I have no more knowledge on the experiences that made you believe in god I cannot really comment on it.

I dont refuse to believe in god, But GOD isnt a priority in my life, Praying is not a priority because god does not show himself and he does not communicate. I believed what people told me up untill I started to think for myself and question the beliefs I was brought up with, I went to a catholic school.. Then I learned and read a lot about different areas of science and now I believe that there is no need for a god to exist.

If a god cannot prove himself, then he is not a god, but a waste of time, Instead of praying I could actually be going out and helping people and help fight disease.

praying to some statue or whatever it is you do is just a waste of time.

tell me. Just say we abandoned all medical research and stopped performing operations and live saving stuff on people.

Do you think god will save everyone?

Your GOD couldnt even save over 50,000 Children from drowning the other month. If thats the god you want to believe in , then that is sad

No1 is watching down on us, We are going to have to make it on our own. I value life very much. Religion makes death seem ok, Death is a bad thing and religion lies to say we will go to a better place. there is no better place.


ok Im really tired and need sleep, anything that didnt make sense in this post, sorry
HowdyDoo
QUOTE(whoa182 @ Mar 4 2005, 03:01 PM)
Alright, But them experiences, did god actually talk to you?

Did god specificly do something for you or help your family in anyway? without human help?    Did he work through somebody as some may say..

These experiences, how you know they are anything to do with god, Since I have no more knowledge on the experiences that made you believe in god I cannot really comment on it.

I dont refuse to believe in god, But GOD isnt a priority in my life, Praying is not a priority because god does not show himself and he does not communicate.  I believed what people told me up untill I started to think for myself and question the beliefs I was brought up with,  I went to a catholic school..  Then I learned and read a lot about different areas of science and now I believe that  there is no need for a god to exist.

If a god cannot prove himself, then he is not a god, but a waste of time, Instead of praying I could actually be going out and helping people and help fight disease.

praying to some statue or whatever it is you do is just a waste of time. 

tell me.  Just say  we abandoned all medical research and stopped performing operations and live saving stuff on people.

Do you think god will save everyone?

Your GOD couldnt even save over 50,000 Children from drowning the other month.  If thats the god you want to believe in , then that is sad

No1 is watching down on us, We are going to have to make it on our own. I value life very much.  Religion makes death seem ok, Death is a bad thing and religion lies to say  we will go to a better place. there is no better place.


ok Im really tired and need sleep, anything that didnt make sense in this post, sorry
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We have so many fundamental differences that there will be no true communication between us. I believe that science cannot answer all the mysteries in the universe and you do.

But in response to your diatribe: Yes, God has helped me and my family beyond that of human help. But I have no desire to share my personal experiences with you. Hence the term PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.

They have given me a personal truth and knowledge of God. I do not need to justify them or even discuss them with you since I have no desire to convert you.

They have given me PERSONAL truth. They have given me a reason to have belief. They serve a purpose in my life and give my life purpose.

Even if I did share my experiences, they would mean nothing to you since they were MY experiences and you would simply try to negate them.

What things have you done for humanity in your unbelief? How many diseases have you conquered? How many homeless have you sheltered and fed? How many cancer-stricken people have you cared for? How many children have you borne and cared for?

Your blood-and-guts version of God is not the God I know. Man, what were you taught? And why can't you go beyond that?

Why would believing in God require us to abandon medical research? God gave us our minds, our science, our skills and research to use to benefit humanity. I just don't understand your definition of God, and you certainly don't understand mine.

Loge
QUOTE(whoa182 @ Mar 3 2005, 07:34 PM)
QUOTE
I've found that fanatic skeptics abound. To me, they seem to be just as narrow-minded as those they view in disdain.


No, Skeptics are just not so gullible to believe in everything you tell them! They search for the truth themselves. Thats why they test things first, you cannot test god, you cannot see god, you cannot talk to god, god does not talk back to you.

Whether you like it or not, god and religion is under the microscope and we are getting to the bottom of this to understand why people believe, unfortanatly some of you here are in the group of those who believe in a blind faith.

Im a skeptic about aliens and ufo's on earth ( although I believe they migh exist, I dont KNOW they exist )

Im a skeptic about religion, but I am a bigger skeptic when it comes to this because its something that no modern man can prove, we have to much evidence of how life is here without religion, So its you that is ignoring the evidence here.

The biggest difference is:

I question my beliefs and research them
YOU just believe what someone tells you, what your religion says, you believe what some men said about 2000 years ago, that is the problem. Men 2000 years ago did not KNOW the millions of new discoveries we know.

I mean Lightening, they thought that was something to do with gods ! theres hundreds of other things they associated with god that now seem so stupid
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Translation:
No, Skeptics (creatures with tiny scope or vision of the universe) are just not so gullible to believe in everything you tell them (but only in fancy theories elaborated by people like us)! They search for the truth themselves (and they never find it). Thats why they test things first (with only five senses), you cannot test god (with the five senses), you cannot see god (with physical sight), you cannot talk to god (meaning, the concept that skeptics have about god ), god (that fancy god) does not talk back to you.

Whether you like it or not, god and religion is under the microscope (the tiny scope or vision of skeptics) and we are getting to the bottom (of the intellect but never of the truth) of this to understand why people believe (in what our wits cannot grasp), unfortunately some of you here are in the group (not a skeptic group) of those who believe (in that which is unknowable for the intellect, based) in a blind faith (because it cannot be proven by the intellect and its five senses).

Im a skeptic (creature with tiny scope or vision of the universe) about aliens and ufo's on earth (although I believe they migh exist, I dont KNOW they exist). Meaning, Christopher Columbus believed that Native Americans did not exist until he discover America.

Im a skeptic about religion (I have a tiny scope or vision of religion), but I am a bigger skeptic when it comes to this because its something that no modern man (skeptic) can prove, we have to much (tridimensional) evidence of how life is here without religion (even though religion is here), So its you that is ignoring the evidence here (religion is rooted in the Latin word RELIGARE, meaning: to unite again; so when the sperm and the ovum reunite again and again, human life then sprouts again and again, thanks to this religare).

The biggest difference is: different scope or vision of life:

I question my beliefs and research them (because I have no conscious evidence of it)
YOU just believe what someone tells you, what your religion says, you believe what some men said about 2000 years ago, that is the problem. Men 2000 years ago did not KNOW the millions of new discoveries we know (and this is what my tiny scope, and the tiny scope of all skeptics, state about the people of all civilizations of the past).

I mean (the skeptics told me in the school that) Lightening, they thought that was something to do with gods! theres hundreds of other things (they told me in the school) they associated with god that now seem so stupid (because, they, like me, cannot see beyond this tridimensional world of Euclid and cannot understand what god means) tongue.gif
STIX
We have no concept of our minds and bodies...of their full potential.

so if we exist within god, why do you think god would have a concept of us? do you think god even knows we exist? mabye god is just as blind about the universe of god, just as we are as blind to our own inner universes.
hyperactive
i define "gods" as a human construct to allow our minds to explain the unknown, and give order and meaning to existance. As such, I have come to the conclusion that "gods" only exist within the minds of men. That is not to say personal belief in said "gods" is good or bad. It is whatever each individual draw from it. Belief can be stronger than anything.

I think all life is interconnected, and know that we know very little of our world (and what lies beyond our perception). Thus it is premature to dismiss the possibilities of other life just because we have no evidence of it. Even if it found one day though, I would not consider it a "god". We create gods in our minds, and we have created life just as we deem "gods" capable of, but by no means are we "gods" to said life unless it were to deem us as such (to which we should claim to be a "parent" but not a "god").
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