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Mysteryman
The Beast of Bodmin Moor:

Heres some information about the Beast of Bodmin Moor and what it is:

One of the most popular subcategories of current cryptozoology, particularly in Britain, is the investigation of what are known as alien big cats, or ABCs. The word "alien" here is meant to denote large felines that are "out of place," rather than "extraterrestrial" -- for instance, a common panther or leopard found somewhere that conventional zoology says it should not be. Fortean Times co-editor Paul Sieveking reported that ABC sightings have recently become the hottest topic of interest among the magazine's British readers. Perhaps one reason for the popularity of alien big cats is that they are a more tangible quarry for monster-hunters than more fantastic creatures like Bigfoot. And there are sightings aplenty, totaling around 300 in 1996 alone.

In the early 1990s, reports began to circulate of alien big cats in and around Cornwall, in southwestern England. Bodmin Moor became a nerve center of these sightings and reports of inexplicably slain livestock, and the alleged leopard-like felines of the region came to be popularly known as the Beast of Bodmin Moor. All the talk of dangerous wild cats led Great Britain's Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to conduct an official investigation in 1995. The study's findings, released on July 19, concluded that there was "no verifiable evidence" of exotic felines loose in Britain, and that the mauled farm animals could have been attacked by common indigenous species. The report did concede, though, that "the investigation could not prove that a 'big cat' is not present."

On July 24, less than a week after the government report, a boy uncovered a startling piece of evidence in Bodmin Moor. Fourteen-year-old Barney Lanyon-Jones was walking with his brothers by the River Fowey at the southern edge of the Moor, when he saw a strange-looking object bobbing in the river's current. Barney thought it was an oddly-shaped rock until he pulled it out of the water, and discovered that it was a large cat skull. Measuring about four inches wide and seven inches long, the skull was missing its lower jaw but possessed two sharp, prominent incisors that suggested a leopard (as seen in the photos on this page). The story hit the national press on July 31, a well-timed counterpoint to the official denial of alien big cat evidence in Bodmin Moor.

The Lanyon-Jones family turned the skull over to London's British Museum of Natural History for verification. Dr. Ian Bishop, the museum's Assistant Keeper of Zoology, examined it and determined that it was a genuine skull from a young male leopard. But he also found that the cat had not died in Britain. Bishop concluded that the skull had been imported as part of a leopard-skin rug.

The back of the skull had been cleanly cut off in a way that is commonly used to mount the head on a rug, and there was an egg case inside the skull that had been laid by a tropical cockroach that could not possibly be found in Britain's climate. There were also fine cut marks on the skull indicating that the flesh had been removed with a knife, and the skull had slightly begun to decompose only after a recently submersion in water.

This was not the first time the skull from a mounted trophy had stirred confusion in the search for alien big cats. In 1988, two teenage boys found a skull on Dartmoor that was never turned over for official study, but the missing back of its skull made many experts suspect a rug-based origin. In 1993, the Natural History Museum had previously identified a large cat skull found in Exmoor as being part of a work of taxidermy. Doug Richardson, assistant curator of mammals at London Zoo, has suggested that a prankster may be planting these skulls on the moors in hopes of misleading their discoverers.

Sightings of the Beast of Bodmin Moor still continue. In October 1997, officials from Newquay Zoo claimed to identify pawprints left in mud to the south of Bodmin Moor as the fresh tracks of a puma. Soon after that discovery, an alleged photograph of the Bodmin Beast materialized, which seemed to show an adult female puma that was looked like it could be pregnant. The authenticity of this piece of evidence remains unconfirmed.

Some pictures:
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I personally just have to say its another typical case of an ABC in an unknown area, or atleast an area that it should not be in.
Seraphina
I think it's fairly obvious by now that there certainly are big cats in the UK...the real question is whether or not there's a stable breeding population. There have been sightings of mothers with cubs, so it's certainly a possibility.
Mysteryman
To what I believe, isn't the real question "Why or how are these big cats living in an area that they dont belong to?", no?
Walken
The beast of bodmin rules.

I have a friend who says they thought they saw it once, but it could've been anything, I guess.
Mysteryman
Actually your right - because any "black" cat found in a wrong area I would guess could be considered the Beast of Bodmin Moor sinces theirs no real/true evidence of its existence.
Walken
Large black cats don't really count as cryptids though, lol.

Unless it's caught and we make some new discoverey. It has 6 bladders, for example.
Mysteryman
ABC - Alien Big Cats. Alien Big Cats are usually known cats to the classic animal kingdom but are not in the area they should be in. ABC's are in a way considered cryptids - or atleast belong in the cryptozoological section of unexplainable mysteries.
ROGER
I read in the news that Wolves and other Western predators are in parks near Washington D.C.
Will that count as Alien?
Panthera leo atrox
This phenomenon would represent a cryptic population rather than an actual cryptid species, the question being more "Is anything really out there?" than "What is it?”

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Mysteryman
QUOTE(ROGER @ Mar 6 2005, 04:51 PM)
I read in the news that Wolves and other Western predators are in parks near Washington D.C.
              Will that count as Alien?
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Well if these cats don't belong in Washington D.C. and aren't adapted to the environment of Washington D.C. and belong in the west part of the United States, then these cats are definitly considered ABC's or alien big cats -

Panthera Leo Atrox is the "Cat Cryptid King" - He knows more than me -
mr_halo
QUOTE(Mysteryman @ Mar 6 2005, 10:01 PM)
QUOTE(ROGER @ Mar 6 2005, 04:51 PM)
I read in the news that Wolves and other Western predators are in parks near Washington D.C.
              Will that count as Alien?
[right][snapback]513748[/snapback][/right]


Well if these cats don't belong in Washington D.C. and aren't adapted to the environment of Washington D.C. and belong in the west part of the United States, then these cats are definitly considered ABC's or alien big cats -

Panthera Leo Atrox is the "Cat Cryptid King" - She knows more than me -
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erm...er "she" is a he tongue.gif

Panthera leo atrox
Psychic Spy
Group: Member
Posts: 1124
Joined: 5-March 04
From: Oklahoma
Member No.: 5452

Country: United States
Gender: Male

see....

innocent.gif
Mysteryman
Thank god for "edit" and thank you Mr. Halo. If Panthera see's this, he won't like me anymore -

blush.gif
Seraphina
QUOTE
To what I believe, isn't the real question "Why or how are these big cats living in an area that they dont belong to?", no?


Well that's easy...

The likelyhood is that the cats, or the parents of the current cat population, were animals that were kept in captivity before the dangerous wild animals act was passed. There was a time when keeping a big cat was a major status symbol, and before it was made illegal (at least without a breeding permit or some such thing) some people did import them.

After the act was passed, many of these animals were hadned over to zooz...but a lot where simply released into the wild. That's the most commonly held theory as to how they got there...and make no mistake, there's no doubt whatsoever that they are there. We certainly can't start guessing about their numbers and so on, but we do know they're there...there's so much evidence that the government has actually made it a topic of discussion recently.
Mysteryman
But can these ABC's from zoo's survive in the area their not adapted to? Can these zoo-held animals find the food that they were never trained to since it was served to them by the zoo employees? Get what I'm saying?
absinthegreen329
QUOTE(ROGER @ Mar 6 2005, 01:51 PM)
I read in the news that Wolves and other Western predators are in parks near Washington D.C.
              Will that count as Alien?
[right][snapback]513748[/snapback][/right]


When it comes to the Wolf part, doesn't Yellowstone National Park have a program now where they are breeding Wolves and releasing them in the wild? If so, they would probably be coming from there.
Mysteryman
Since now we believe that ABC's are all coming from places already holding the cats (zoo's, national parks, etc.), your right then.
Seraphina
I doubt very much they've escaped from zooz - if that were the case, not only is it far more likely that the animals would be very quickly caught (after all, the zoo would need to report the escape), but far more sightings would occur in the locality of zooz, rather than out in the middle of nowhere.

Ah, nevermind, you're talking about wolves now. Not UK big cats tongue.gif oh, scratch that...

QUOTE
But can these ABC's from zoo's survive in the area their not adapted to? Can these zoo-held animals find the food that they were never trained to since it was served to them by the zoo employees? Get what I'm saying?


Again, not from zooz - they'll have been imported as pets. And yes, of course they could survive in the UK. We have our own species of native cat, so there's no reason whatsoever why another cat, on a bigger scale, wouldn't be perfectly at home here...there is, after all, plenty of food.

As for the "could they get food" question...of course they could. Cats are the most perfectly designed killers in nature - livestock are slow and stupid. There wouldn't be much teaching required for a powerful cat to kill a sheep or a cow, or for a lynx to chase down a rabbit...it's what they're designed to do.
Mysteryman
Well, Panthera Leo Atrox told me that usually the case of ABC's are from escaped animals from zoo's, am I right Panthera?
Seraphina
If that's what Panthera believes, then Panthera hasn't thought the arguement through very well...when an animal escaped from a zoo, it is required by law to be reported. Local law enforcement shall then invest every effort in finding the animal before it harms someone, and will either shoot it, or return it to the zoo...such events have happened before.

If the animals had escaped from a zoo, then we would not only know exactly where they came from, we'd know exactly how many there were. The fact is we don't...the only place the animals could have come from is by origonating as exotic pets that were released into the wild. Heck, if they had escaped from a zoo, then there would never have been any debate in the first place as to whether or not they were out there tongue.gif
Canadian Rottweiler
All this stuff on big cats is just illegally smuggled in animals,that escaped from the smugglers.
XSAS
QUOTE(Mysteryman @ Mar 6 2005, 07:43 PM)
ABC - Alien Big Cats. Alien Big Cats are usually known cats to the classic animal kingdom but are not in the area they should be in. ABC's are in a way considered cryptids - or atleast belong in the cryptozoological section of unexplainable mysteries.
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Mysteryman is right... this is a well known fact that big cats roam the countryside in the UK... Nothing cryptic or a undiscvered new species in this, it does not justify in my oppinion discussion on this forum.
Walken
Most probably CR, good point. grin2.gif
vulturetotem
A 600+ lbs. tiger was killed in california last week. Tigers are
not indiginous to the area, which would make it an ABC. It did
not escape from a zoo either.

Point is, someone had it and let it loose. Humans do some
crazy things and "pets" seem to top the list. Anyway, a anomaly
does not mean a cryptid.

BTW, isn't there a breed of giant house cats from Japan or
something???

V.T.
P.S. never kill these creatures or you will face the wrath of
Tippy Hedron...
Walken
lol. I don't know about that, but CR was right about animal smuggleing. It seems strange that it would be in such a low populated area.
XSAS
It is not animal smuggling responsible for the Big cats but when the laws changed in the UK in 1976/1977 about wild animals as pets people that owned big cats as pets, rather than give them to a Zoo or similar decided just to let them go into the Wild...
Walken
A dangerouse choice to make.
XSAS
I agree a very dangerous choice to make without any thought to the safety of others, in fact just to digress a little, I believe they are looking at the re introduction of Wolves in parts of Scotland, I read this somewhere last year.
Walken
Intresting. XSAS, I've just realised something. I joined 5 days before you. Look at the difference in our post numbers!

I'm embarrased now. What a post-whore.
XSAS
QUOTE(Walken @ Mar 7 2005, 07:15 PM)
Intresting. XSAS, I've just realised something. I joined 5 days before you. Look at the difference in our post numbers!

I'm embarrased now. What a post-whore.
[right][snapback]515059[/snapback][/right]


I was just thinking the same and looking at your profile... I have watched these forums for a few Months and don't think I posted anything for a while after I joined but I am becoming more and more interested in many of the topics so I thought I might start sending my opinions, there are mnany consistent members that are interesting to see what they have to say... I think I actually only had 10 posts until today?
Walken
Lol. Hopefully you'll become one of us soon.
XSAS
Hmmm.... should I take that as a compliment??
Walken
Well that depends. If you take it as a compliment we can both walk out and never heard it spoken of again. If you take it as something else, you don't wanna know what happens.
XSAS
Compliment it is then.
Mysteryman
The thing is, The Beast of Bodmin Moor isn't identified as to what cat it could possibly be. Most say panther and it certainly looks like one, but the skull found which does match the skeletal structure of the Beast of Bodmin Moor isn't the one of a panther...So could it be a new species of a panther or just an unknown cat?
absinthegreen329
QUOTE(Mysteryman @ Mar 7 2005, 12:39 PM)
The thing is, The Beast of Bodmin Moor isn't identified as to what cat it could possibly be. Most say panther and it certainly looks like one, but the skull found which does match the skeletal structure of the Beast of Bodmin Moor isn't the one of a panther...So could it be a new species of a panther or just an unknown cat?
[right][snapback]515215[/snapback][/right]


It is most likely an unknown cat.
Panthera leo atrox
QUOTE
Most say panther and it certainly looks like one, but the skull found which does match the skeletal structure of the Beast of Bodmin Moor isn't the one of a panther...So could it be a new species of a panther or just an unknown cat?


The skull is a "panther" skull. Panther is a generic term that refers to many cats, including the leopard, which is the species the skull belongs to.

The skull isn't an issue because the animal did not die in the wild in England-

QUOTE
cat had not died in Britain. Bishop concluded that the skull had been imported as part of a leopard-skin rug.


Mysteryman
I'm sorry though I did read in an article that the skull found was that not of a panthers but an unknown cat, one to which matched the beast of bodmin moor. huh.gif
Panthera leo atrox
Can you find that article? I doubt any skulls belonging to unknown species of Felids have been found in England.
Canadian Rottweiler
QUOTE(Walken @ Mar 7 2005, 06:08 AM)
Most probably CR, good point. grin2.gif
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Damn straight happy.gif
Mysteryman
Panthera - your right...My bad - didn't read careful enough. '

Yeah, as you said all skulls of "cats" have been identified, atleast in England.
Canadian Rottweiler
Illegally smuggled big cats.Case solved.
Walken
Well well, dear Watson.

Another case closed.

*claps.

You can understand why this is interpreted the way it is though.
Dezmond
A few days ago i saw a program about 2 hunters from Alaska looking for cat tracks. But they found nothing, only tracks of dogs.

They also went to the number one ABC sighter, who had foto-albums full of pics and all pics he shopwed with torn apart sheeps they said it were dogs who did it. (If a neck is attacked and brutely opened, leaving big holes in the body its a dog)

But I have seen some pictures and movies and I think there is no doubt they are really there.
Walken
Sometimes it's not though. Some chupacarbra attacks are really violent, but, haveing said that, most are just blamed on dogs anyway.
Seraphina
QUOTE
(If a neck is attacked and brutely opened, leaving big holes in the body its a dog)


Actually, most autopsies on supposed victims of such attacks are agreed to be the work of a large cat.

Jaguars, for example, don't kill by biting the neck. They instead deliver a single savage blow to the body. This blow is clearly visible on the corpse, actually having punched through the ribcage, with a degree of power that a dog is simply incapable of.
Walken
Really? Intresting. Why is a blow to the body used, may I ask? Neck attacks...seem much more widely used in the animal kingdom.
Seraphina
To be perfectly honest, I don't know. A jaguar is actually built for that kind of method...as cats go, they have a very powerful, muscular upper body. It's probably to do with what the animal hunts in its native habitat though...

I watched a documentary about jaguars once...one of them killed a girraffe tongue.gif As much as there's a lot of neck to bite, I imagine any animal would have trouble getting to it.
Walken
lol, yeah.

Saying that, when my cats play fight, they always scratch and bite around the necks. Maybe it's because thats not how they hunt that they do that.
Canadian Rottweiler
QUOTE(Seraphina @ Mar 8 2005, 10:35 AM)
QUOTE
(If a neck is attacked and brutely opened, leaving big holes in the body its a dog)


Actually, most autopsies on supposed victims of such attacks are agreed to be the work of a large cat.

Jaguars, for example, don't kill by biting the neck. They instead deliver a single savage blow to the body. This blow is clearly visible on the corpse, actually having punched through the ribcage, with a degree of power that a dog is simply incapable of.
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Cheetah's and lions are the only big cats that suffocate their prey by biting the neck.
Walken
Oh...so confuseing.

You'd think jaguars did the same. you learn something new evreyday, I guess.
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