Ok apparently the world is run by super powerful secret societies working behind the scenes. You've got the Priori, the Illumanati, the scions of Atlantis, aliens from the planet Galefrey at war with aliens from the planet Skarro, The Cthuhlu Cult, Free Masons, Satanists and the ever popular US Govt all struggling to controll the world. Apparently though all of there agents went to the James Bond school for spies where flash is every thing and secrecy irrelevent.

COme on people do you really think that if these groups existed (several of them do to some extent admittedly ie the Govt and the Masons) you'd have ever heard about them? The US govt managed to keep the SR 71 black bird and stealth bomber complete secrets from the public for decades. Consider how our own inteligence community operates. They bind people to oaths of total secrecy enforcable under the law. Any one who has accesss to top secret information is monitored through most of there life complete with random checks and will be tried and executed for high treason if they talk even once. Yet every other month some "govt" offical comes out and admits he's aware that UFOs are really being kept in Area 51 or some other secret info. Spare me if any of it were true the Goverment would have hauled him off to the nearest jail cell the minute he even started talking to any media outlets. If secret societies have any real power I wouldn't doubt they'd kill to protect there secrets as well(some may have in fact). Yet we seem to think we are privy to this information just because people write "tell all" books and do tv shows claiming to tell the truth. Often forgotten fact: there is no legal requirement of when a fictional work has to start being fictional. For example Christ Carter put the claim that every thing the X Files showed was based on first hand accounts, and the movie Fargo claimed the same, heck Blair Witch Project still fools dozens of people into thinking its real. You can claim just about any fictional thing you write is fact because the claim itself is also fiction

I don't have a problem with conspiracy theories. I have a problem with people who won't believe anything but a conspiracy theory.

For instance. If the U.S. government were to come out tomorrow and publish information that the JFK assassination did indeed involve more than one individual, then it still wouldn't be the end for conspiracy theorists.

Even if the government gave full disclosure of all of the information and gave it all truthfully, conspiracy theorists would still find something else in that information to harp on.

It's a never-ending, viscious cycle.

However, as much as I am a skeptic and can't stand crack-pot views, the crack-pot views are essential for three reasons:

1.) If someone is spouting their crack-pot views, then they are doing so freely and are not being hushed up. The freedom to speak one's mind, regardless as to how ridiculous it may seem to others, is a basic human freedom that should be prevalent in ALL cultures. The citizens of Iraq didn't have that freedom. They do now. This is one example of how it's a good thing.

2.) It maintains a system of checks and balances for every government. Even if that government claims "plausible deniability", they still have to account for the fact that someone isn't buying everything they are selling, regardless of how much it may be true.

3.) It entertains the hell out of me.

I agree with MedicTJ on the three reasons why these views are important.

I also agree with Kevin, if these "secret" societies existed, we wouldn't know about it. Whenever someone says that they have proof of one of them, it is just another website claiming that they are going to take over the world.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying people don't have a right to talk about it. Hey I think most of them are absolutely hysterical. The utter lack of credibility and ignorance of what constitutes evidence. Its some what tragic because its also a sign of our degeneration back into a world of superstition and fear. Conspiracy theories can be very dangerous if the wrong people take them to heart. Look at what Joseph Mccarthy started when he became convinced that there was a huge communist conspiracy to overthrow America.

Medic you hit the nail on the head. It seems most conspiracy people believe only conspiaracies, no matter what the theroy is.

so they've got to you now.......

Got to me? No no no you got it all wrong. I've been a Scion of Atlantis Cthuhu worshiping alien from Galifrey for three hundred years now. In my spare time I'm a grand master of the knights of templar, the grand high poohba of the Illumanati, and the mastermind behind every evil threat in the world from Teletubbies to Pokemon. Also I use the Ark of the Covenent as my coffee table, ate the holy grail yesterday(it was actually a porcupine), use the Spear of destiny for target practice and regularly have long dark tea times of the soul with Thor, Satan, the Antichrist, God and Jimmy Haffa. Paranormal investigation is just my day job.

I wish I could live such a charmed life.

Don't we all

While I'm certain that the american government is hush-hush about various things (and, in many cases with good reason -- can you imagine what would happen if they made highly sensitive military information available to the general public? As much as I oppose certain aspects of the american government, for them to go around advertising the locations, access codes, etc. of/to nuclear facilities would be suicide) I've found that 99% of conspiracy theories are unfounded and completely absurd.

The problem is that a good chunk of paranoid crackpots suffer from some form of mental illness. This in itself discredits their theories, and while it's not absolute proof that they're wrong, it lends itself towards creating the idea that nothing coming from this individuals mouth can be taken seriously.

I'm not saying that all conspiracy theorists are raving lunatics, of course. However, there's a huge difference between questioning whether or not the government is being upfront about everything, and covering your head in tin-foil to prevent the Prime Grays from Planet X from reading your thoughts. I just can't take those who fall into the latter category seriously.

You mean, the foil won't protect me? Are you sure?! What are your sources?

The Greys phoned me up the other night, told me that tinfoil is useless. Well, actually they were mostly bitching about the long-distance rates involved in such a call, but we did touch on the subject of tinfoil and whatnot. It was awesome.

Well of course greys are all demons so you need to cover your head with 1st edition Dungeons and Dragons books. Since every one knows D&D is an evil game the demons posing as little gray men will break out the polyhedrons and generate mages to attack the darkness instead of abducting you. Just remember it has to be first or third edition demons don't like second because they stoped calling em demons in 2nd.

Haha, okay, I'll try the D and D thing

Gazer you hit it on the head. I think mental illness is on the rise in this country. This is a side effect of it.

What if the societeys (like the illuminati) wanted you to know of them, through finger prints?

Allow me to explain before you draw a judgement.

The illuminati are fascinated by symbology and numberology. They like to leave sutle fingerprints to remind us of them.

For example; The logo on the dollar bill. (most obviouse) World leaders flashing the sign of the devil. The pyramid of 666 gold peices of glass, ect.

www.infowars.com has loads, includeing a tsunami victim that was found with a NWO t-shirt. The NWO is the over name of the illuminati. Apparantly, sixteen people were found with exactly the same shirt.

I just don't buy that conspriacy theroy. Are there power brokers? Yes. But a world wide conspiracy of the illuminati , no I don't buy that. It is too much of a stretch. Grasping for straws.

Then how do you explain the finger prints?

I am not making a far fetched claim, so I don't have to explain anything. Your making the claim, its up to you to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I am not being nasty to you, but people that believe these whacky things should put up or shut up.

I find that offensive. I've already provided evidence, the finger prints. Only if you can counter that evidence and debunk it, do I have to put foward more evidence. Currently, the ball is in your court.

I've already 'put up'. I have no reason to shut up.

That evidence is flaky at best. Come on Walken. Just agree to disagree. Also, every time I disagree with you, you find it offensive.

Okay. I don't believe in the Illuminati, but I do give credence to some of the "numerical" anamolies that occur from time to time. For instance, the number "11" and multiples of it seem to occur much more than one would think is randomly natural.

That being said, it doesn't mean that I believe there is some mystical, magical force driving everything. There is an explanation to it and when it is revealed, then I think we'll find that it is nothing real big, but something significant.

Uh-huh.

I didn't find what you said offensive, eric. I just challenged it. I've already provided evidence.

Tell me, why do you think its flaky?

secret societies are known to exist

the Skull and Bones is no longer a complete secret

i think many people in power are hungry for more

though im not sure i believe it is as far-reaching as many suspect

with the population of the world so high and the vast amount of technology today im not sure how much control such a group could have

it's true people fear a "big brother"

but i also think it goes the other way as well

the common man is much more informed then they used to be

There have always been conspiracy theorists. The problem today is that anybody with a theory can maintain a website that "proves" it is true. Since people tend to question things that conform to their world view less than things that don't, there are a lot of things available to an internet investigator to support his beliefs, even if they are unfounded, even irrational.

And that doesn't apply only to conspiracy theorists. A white supremest can find ample web sites to support his belief system, and even worse the NAMBLA web site tries its hardest to scientifically rationalize sex with children.

Any paranoid schizophrenic can find reinforcement to any number of delusions in 5 minutes of googling. A rational investigator can also use the internet effectively. What separates the latter from the former is the objectivity to be just as critical of information that supports his theories as he is of information that refutes it.

Do secret societies exist? Absolutely. Do they have even a quarter the impact people think they do? No. If the Masons, Skull and Bones and mythical Illumanati(prove it exists please it sounds to me like a paranoid delusion btw the dollar bill has been linked to lots of socieites most of the time I've heard its a masonic symbol not an illumanati one) had the power people claim they do we'd never hear about them. Look at the govt(the great font of conspiracy theories) if it could completely hide groups like delta force and technology like the stealth bomber for decades do you really think that they couldn't hide alien space craft? The technology the govt has has always been years ahead of the private sector and we never find out about it till after the govt has some thing better yet people still think the govt is incompetent enough to let major secrets out for any idiot with internet access to discover.

Groups that have any real power and want to hide themselves do so. They do it by burying every book, newspaper article and tv report on them. To be extra sure they assasinate any one who tries to tell the truth and discredit people who are to public to assasinate. In other words a true secret society is one you've never heard of any thing else is window dressing. Several have existed through out history most of which were destroyed shortly after they were discovered.

The thing is that conspiracy theorists in general are great for the government - there's theorist for practically every facet of the governments doings - who really knows the TRUTH about what they are doing? (Do they even know themselves?)

Hypothetically - some guy 'in the know' blabs about Roswell and aliens. Arrest the guy? Shut him up? Make him disappear? NO! That could hint that what he says might have some merit. Instead, label it a conspiracy theory and label him as one of the 'wackos'. And it works - there are just as many people who believe this guy as there are those who believe he's just got a screw loose. Meanwhile, while we argue about his mental capacity, and then argue with each other with the absolute "I am right and you are wrong" attitude, the government can just go about it's business under the same shadow of ambiguity. And we still don't know the real story because at the end of it all, this guy could really be just a wacko. Or, he could really be telling the truth.

That being said - what if the government were 'leaking' both fact an fiction right under our noses specifically to misguide all of us?? How will we ever know the TRUTH?

If the guy actually had access to that kind of information he'd have been dead or in jail before he reached a reporter and the reporter would have been told to keep there mouths shut. Revealing top secret information is by law espionage and treason both of which are punishable by death. The govt has arrested people for giving information to another country that was classified you think its going to forgive them for publicizing similar information here? If the govt didn't want the public to know about ufos we wouldn't know about them because the CIA and NSA are far more competent then conspiracy theorists ever give them credit for.

I'm not american, so I'm kind of confused as to what fingerprints you're referring to. Are there subtle markings on your bills? Finger-prints found stamped? Please explain, and provide images if possible. I'm gonna try to do a google search on this, since I'm not very-well educated on the subject of the illuminati, but to be honest I don't really buy into it. As someone else said, it just seems too far-fetched and over-the-top to be true.

Not insulting you or anything, however I would like some more info on this.

I do believe that secret societies exist, however it's hard to believe that they're anywhere near as powerful as some claim them to be. For instance, if the illuminati commands as much control over the world as some seem to believe, what's stopping them from coming out publicly, and seizing control over everything once and for all?

This is exactly why I find it so difficult to buy into the constant "BRAND NEW EXPOSED ROSWELL STORY, STAY TUNED FOR EX-MARINE TELL-ALL -- TONIGHT ON FOX!" programs we all see on TV. If there were any merit to their stories, the government would have been on them faster than Rosie O'Donnell at a pop-tart convention. I think a good chunk of those "Ex-Marines" are looking for a couple extra bucks, rather than some sort of publication of internal affairs. The government ignores them, because their stories are horribly exaggerated, at the very least.

Now, everyone knows that area 51 does, in fact, exist (I have a buddy who goes down [not into the actual facility, but close enough to see the warning signs] there all the time, before chickening out and heading home.) However, the theories relating to what goes down in the place are sketchy, at best. Are their alien carcases inside? Secret testing facilities? Germ-warfare labs? Who knows. Have the so-called witnesses to these events actually seen anything there? Doubtful.

There is no doubt to the competency of the government as far as keeping secrets goes. But remember the old saying "the only way to keep a secret is to keep it to yourself"? The government can arrest people, try them in court, punish them by death if it merits, but it is exactly at this point that a paradox presents itself. Mysteriously dead or missing people, especially the intelligent sort that would be in the know about these secret things, have connections. Friends. Family. Poker buddies that they still owe $50 to. Sharing top secret information about something like our satellites, intelligence, defense systems, or military are things that the government would readily protect with an arrest, trial and punishment, all publicly. Why? Because these are the types of things that are already public knowledge. But how do they arrest or detain or kill someone AFTER he's revealed a secret about the much debated UFOs, or Aliens, or a White House members affiliation with a much debated secret organization, without protecting that very secret they are trying to take action against him for? I'm just saying that the government IS being extremely smart and crafty by playing dumb and getting that guy to be labeled as a Wacko, and let those of us who actually believe him get labeled as Those Conspiracy Theorist Wacko's (the more I use that word, the more I like it!). I do believe that there is much the government is hiding from us, and I do believe that much of what we speculate is actually the truth. I believe that there are people out there that have suffered terribly or lost their lives or freedom for the secret that they shared. But by the same token, I believe that some of what we speculate is pure baloney and that it is the government who made the sandwich for us with their deceitful bread and ambiguous spread. I hypothesize that it's not so much about keeping secrets anymore as it is about hiding it in the open if the secret got out. Pretty slick to hide secrets with more secrets and lies at the same time. . . .

the illuminati still excist

Theres two possibilities really. One is the govt is playing dumb while people leak top secret information to the general public. The other is the whole thing is a load of hogwash. Logic dictates the second is the most probable explanation.

One of the most annoying traits of the conspiracy theorists is their ability to manufacture "evidence" such as: "I know that the government is in league with the 3 headed venusians! Now prove you're not!" It is very hard to 'prove' a negative. If the government/organization/corporation in question opened up all of their files and showed that there was no coroborating evidence, the theorists would shout "AHA! That proves that there IS a conspiracy!!"

It is rather difficult to argue that kind of logic, no?

Yes. Having no idea where the burden of proof really lies is the hallmark of a rabid conspiracy theorist. Since it is usually impossible to prove a negative, many conspiracy theorists believe this makes their theory du jour the truth by default. In actuality, since the evidence of the government's side of the story is already given and rejected by the theorists, the onus of proof is solidly on them to prove that evidence is flawed.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof--Carl Sagan

Conspiracys are a joke, they have no creditable proof and want to make a name for themshelves.

Sad to say but a fundamental ignorance of the nature of logical and scientific proof is common to the whole of society not just conspiracy theorists. Look how many people jump on the band wagon of homeopathic remedies and faith healers based on anecdotal evidence and case studies.

I think this whole tin foil thing is a conspiracy by the manufacturers of tin foil to increase sales of their product...you heard it here first!

... ...

Why, I think you may be on to something...

Actually the mere presense of tin foil in a house is an ancient mystical protection against aliens using mind control rays to make people jump off a sky scraper. I've got tin foil at home and i've never jumped off a sky scraper so it must be true.

sounds like religion


you may want to reconsider before you try and slam so much into one nice little grouping

yes i agree many conspiracy theories are way out there
but some have been very well researched and could be possible

Really which ones? The majority I've seen are either ludicrious or fabricate evidence and call it research(Davinci Code any one?).

Conspiracies all get pigeonholed as "wacko" theories because credible discussions get mixed in with the "alien abduction/tinfoil hat" believers. Then the standard response to a conspiracy question becomes "Oh, right, and Elvis just crashed his flying saucer into the White House"

If you want some proof of a valid conspiracy, such as 9/11, there are many points of indisputable evidence, prior knowledge and cover-up. These points were taken from the mainstream media - it's just nobody bothers to connect the dots.

1. Insider trading in United & American Airlines (but no other airlines) in the two weeks prior to 9/11. Some of this trading was linked to "Buzzy" Krongaerd, former head of the CIA. But...hmmm....the 9/11 Commission said "no abnormal trading had occurred".javascript:emoticon(':tu:')
smilie
2. Bush Jr. was in an elementary school on 9/11 - a visit that was ADVERTISED in mainstream newspapers days before 9/11. So when Andy Card tells Bush, according to Bush himself, that "a second plane has hit the World Trade Center - America is under attack", you would assume the Secret Service would rush the Prez out of this publicly announced school visit. But wait, Bush sits with the kids calmly for another 30 minutes, endagering his own and many childrens' lives...unless - Bush and his Secret Service people DIDN'T feel they were in any danger...now - why would they assume that? javascript:emoticon(':innocent:')
smilie
3. Bush TWICE said he saw the FIRST plane hit the WTC on a TV in the school hallway - wow! I wish I got to see that event live on TV....oh well, nobody but Bush somehow did, because it never was shown live.....javascript:emoticon('<_<')
smilie

.....notice a pattern yet? These are just 3 points from the standpoint of prior knowledge. The material evidence - well for starters, the Gov't ordered most of that to China while bodies were still to be found in the quickly vanishing steel pieces - a criminal act, by the way (destroying evidence of a crime scene).

Just a few things to start with & think overjavascript:emoticon(':yes:')
smilie

turbonium you can't link things that are tenuous, and consider things suspicious just because people don't react to things the way you would or the way you think they way they should have.

For example, Gwendolyn Tose’-Rigel, the principal of the school in question, praised Bush’s action: “I don’t think anyone could have handled it better.” “What would it have served if he had jumped out of his chair and ran out of the room?" She said Bush’s presence had a calming effect and “helped us get through a very difficult day."

That's the problem with conspiracy theories, including the 911 theory. You decide what is suspicious, then use that as 'proof' it was a conspiracy, ignoring alternate explanations. Just like you accuse people of doing when if they believe the mainstream explanation.

In other words you make the worst mistake an investigator can make, form a predisposed opinion and then search for evidence that you are right. Just like many other conspiracies, those who believe in a 911 conspiracy tout every anomaly as proof that the conspiracy is true, then instead of getting alternate explanations for those anomalies to see if they are indeed anomalies, lump all the explainable and non-explainable anomalies into a bundle as if they are all unexplainable, combine it with perceived 'motives' and 'connect the dots' to prove their beliefs are correct. Then, like a cherry on top of a fudge sundae, declare anybody who is still dubious after their supposedly slam dunk evidence is presented as stupid, brainwashed, or in on the conspiracy. The idea that an intelligent person can look at the same evidence and come to a different conclusion is unimaginable to them.


The 911 theory fits quite well on this thread.

I admire your explanation - it's much better put forward than most responses I get on these posts. But, you are way off target - let me explain why:

First, to respond to the teacher's quotes - they sound odd to me. Why would she say anything about Bush panicking as the only other option to sitting there for twenty more minutes? How about this instead - "The President calmly got up and told the children he was sorry to leave, but he had important business to get to running the country. The school Principal then informed the teachers to lead their classes out of the building and walk to nearby Blingeroo Park, which was blocks away from the school and out of the potential target area" Sounds like a better option, does it not? And why weren't the children not evacuated in this way even later on? Would YOU not wonder why not if you had children at the school, and knew that Bush's visit was public knowledge, and therefore a possible terrorist target? Links to Bush school visit video and page http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/bushbook.mov
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/schoolvideo.html

My opinion of 9/11 was not preconceived. I didn't think anything was odd about 9/11 until about two months later, when I was talking about it with my brother. Then it hit me - why didn't ANY jets intercept the hijacked planes? I had remembered golfer Payne Stewart's plane had been intercepted a year or two earlier after going off course, and they had it intercepted in minutes. So I started to look into why this time it was different., especially since there were FOUR planes and there was well over an hour for all the planes finally crash. Check out this link http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/norad/

Conspiracies 'theories' start when anomalies like this happen. Then it becomes more curious when the investigation is 'limited' by Bush under the lame reasoing of 'we need to concentrate on the terrorists' - that is classic whitewash language. Then more questions start to arise:
1.If Bush had nothing to hide, why wouldn't he testify in public for questioning ?
2. Why would FEMA commit a criminal act by removing and destroying evidence of a crime scene ? See the link http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_fema_911.html
3. How come at least 7 of the nineteen supposed 'hijackers' are still alive? And why are they still on the official FBI list? See the link http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html
4. Why did WTC building 7 collapse in freefall like WTC 1 and 2? The fires were very minimal. See this information http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html
5. What caused the molten pools of steel for days after 9/11? Check this out http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_hotspots.html

These questions, and MANY others, have NEVER been explained. If you can, please POST THE LINKS like I have - don't just postulate on why conspiracies start. That doesn't answer any of these questions. And I WILL look at your links. If they are convincing, I would love to change my opinion to the official story. And ADMIT I was wrong (it would make the world much less dangerous) BUT, if you research my links, and ALL sides of the issue, be humble enough to change YOUR opinion if it strikes you as ridiculous an official story as I believe it to be. Don't let the fear of the implications or personal pride put you into denial.

Believe it or not, even the second 'official' JFK commission ruled that there WAS 'probably' a conspiracy. Of course, this only took 30 years to even admit to. And this story wasn't splashed on your newspaper's front page, either. But check this link out - http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...rt/contents.htm
It SHOULD have been big news, and maybe spur on further investigation. But......umm.....oh, hell, let's put MICHAEL JACKSON PEDOPHILE TRIAL as our headline instead. Murdered Presidents are no big deal, especially cuz he's long since dead, right?

And Pearl Harbor has come to light as a conspiracy as well. See this
http://www.rense.com/general10/consp.htm That event brought America into WW2, but happened even longer ago, so who cares??

And 9/11? Well, we gots ta go git that Ben Laddin outta his cave. I tells ya, he figgered out how to kick our asses. We gots to spend at least a Billion Trillion dollars to git our fancy doodad radars workin' like real good'. And then bomb 'em all to smithereens. They cut off three days of Oprah after nine-eleven and muh wife gots real antsy 'bout that.
All muh teevee shows gots cancelled too, fer weeks, dang it all, yup, uh huh!
javascript:emoticon(':yes:')
smilie
Some conspiracies ARE real, not just 'theories'. Don't' lump valid ones in with loony ones. That's what the scumbags who are behind them WANT you to believe, that you must be a kook to believe anything other than what THEY THEMSELVES tell you is the one and only truth. And don't fall into a left wing/right wing mudslinging (ala Michael Moore, Al Franken). Like any serious researcher, I don't care who is Prez.,The same thing could have been done with Clinton as Prez.-it can happen with ANY party in the White House.javascript:emoticon(':no:')
smilie

I look forward to an honest and thorough response....

Want to know the true source of conspiracy theories? The fact that the population as a whole is, and always has been, paranoid to the point of violence. We can never except that concidence is just that but have a driving need to find a sinister hand behind every thing that happens in the world. For the Romans it was the Christians murderers of children, cannabals, and socrcerers, for Midevil Europe it was witches. The US has gone through a series of ridiculous boogey men. IN the 50s it was Communists plotting to overthrow the govt. In the 70s and 80s it was satanic cults manipulating children through rock and roll, video games and role playing games. As we move into the new millenia we shift every thing to the govt and the dreaded greys from planet X.

The basic claims haven't changed in the entire course of human history. What changes is the name we give the mythological persecutors. These modern 9/11 claims(or the Roswell claims) are only different from the Satanic ritual abuse scares of the 80's in the fact that aliens and anti goverment messages are now the fashionable scape goat. PErsonaly I long for the day we grow up and realize people just do evil and twisted things because we are an inherently destructive species. We have no need of elaborate conspiracies to get the job done we'll do it ourselves.

But...now YOU have a theory...about conspiracies!
Two words for you - Northwoods Document. Here's the link..http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-i.htm
Freedom of Info put this into public domain..yes, it is genuine. Yes, it IS proof conspiracies are planned out - this is one of who knows how many that weren't carried out (that is, except in a revised way on 9/11). But..well..no Gov't of OURS would kill it's own citizens on purpose.....

LOOK at it, otherwise you are creating theories and not challenging conspiracies as valid.