ok i know this has been done on tv and documentaries so many times but does anyone have a conclusive theory about who shot JFK and why?

CIA shot him because he wouldn't make war on Cuba

Aliens shot him, abducted him, probed him then fed him to their sasquatch and their chupacabra.

Nixon knew more than Eisenhower about the Bay of Pigs. The operation to get Castro the guns he needed to oust Batista was granted by the CIA. American involvement since 1957! Once Castro took power he nationalised all Cuban resources and ousted the mafia from running their casinos. The "American Establishment" stood to lose alot of money along with the mafia so the CIA was called in to assassinate or remove Castro and they brought in mafia captains to help. You can never understand who or what forces killed JFK until you understand the history behind those who ruled Cuba and how they allowed American corporations to rape Cuba of her resources. The same forces that have been behind coups and assassinations in Iran(1950's), Guatemala(Arbenz), Chile(Allende),Congo(CIA even used the same right-wing cubans from the Bay of Pigs). It is all about supporting a dictator that gives nothing back to the people whos country they are robbing.
Kennedy, for some reason, chose to be diplomatic and bettered relations with Cuba and Russia. He almost stopped the Cold War. He was about to bring home troops out of Veitnam in 1964 after his re-election. He fired Dulles over the Bay of Pigs. Basically he was getting in the way of business as usual. It was these same forces that were responsible for his death...Bush family was part of those forces. It is not as important who pulled the trigger but that our whole "establishment" was behind it and sanctioned it. Ill send more later.
"

bunches of people. as to mark one man as the shooter
i think James E. Files has a good story.

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/filestruth.htm

the "bankers" --its always been the bankers who decide the fate and destiny of the Military Industrial Complex-therefore they also decide the path of humanity-in 62' kennedy was approached by general L.L.Lemintzer and asked to approve a certain operation northwoods which proposed terrorism on american citizens in order to create indignation and contempt in order to cement the vietnam war and start another-he refused to approve northwoods and was so appauled and disgusted by the proposal he followed by starting procedures that would have dismantled the cia,fbi and "federal reserve"-it was executive order 11110 and was litterally his death sentence-
******************************************************************

---EX Order 11110--
the time in between 63'-68' was a critical point in history in which america experienced a covert administration coup which has held to this day and become arrogant and drunk with power to the point where they think they could perpetrate 9/11
The day the US died

Sunofone, is there one conspiracy theory you do not believe?lol

heres three--aliens,ghosts and the 9/11 commission report

Thankyou.

The Mafia and far right organisations who were afraid of JFK's left wing views on war,race and peace,etc.

PS.-Sunofone rules! I find his posts interesting! .....So there!

Good answer Sun! Same here.

I agree NOt because everyone is but sounds Convincing Makes Sense To!

Gunrunner Ruby and the CIA

by Lisa Pease
It's not as if they didn't know. Assistant counsels to the Warren Commission Burt Griffin and Leon Hubert wrote, in a memo to the Warren Commission members dated March 20, 1964, that "the most promising links between Jack Ruby and the assassination of President Kennedy are established through underworld figures and anti-Castro Cubans, and extreme right-wing Americans." 1 Two months later, Griffin and Hubert wrote another memo to the Commission, significantly titled "Adequacy of the Ruby Investigation" in which they warned, "We believe that a reasonable possibility exists that Ruby has maintained a close interest in Cuban affairs to the extent necessary to participate in gun sales or smuggling."

"They're going to find out about Cuba.
They're going to find out about the guns,
find out about New Orleans,
find out about everything."
Ruby had talked about it himself while in jail, reportedly telling a friend, "They're going to find out about Cuba. They're going to find out about the guns, find out about New Orleans, find out about everything." 2 Tales of Ruby running guns to Cuba abounded in the FBI reports taken in the first weeks after the assassination, yet neither the Warren Commission nor the House Select Committee pursued those leads very far. Griffin and Hubert expressed concern over this, saying that "neither Oswald's Cuban interests in Dallas nor Ruby's Cuban activities have been adequately explored." 3
If They Dared

Hubert and Griffin expressed in their memo of May 14 to Rankin that "we believe that the possibility exists, based on evidence already available, that Ruby was involved in illegal dealings with Cuban elements who might have had contact with Oswald. The existence of such dealings can only be surmised since the present investigation has not focused on that area." 4 They expressed concern that "Ruby had time to engage in susbtantial activities in addition to the management of his Clubs" and that "Ruby has always been a person who looked for money-making 'sidelines'." They even suggested that since the Fort Worth manufacturer of the famous "Twist Board" Ruby was demonstrating the night after the assassination had no known sales, and was manufactured by an oil field equipment company, that "[t]he possibility remains that the 'twist board' was a front for some other illegal enterprise." But what Griffin and Hubert kept coming back to is that there was "much evidence" that Ruby "was interested in Cuban matters, citing his relationship to Louis McWillie; his attempted sale of jeeps to Castro, his reported attendance of meetings "in connection with the sale of arms to Cubans and the smuggling out of refugees"; and Ruby's quick correction of Wade's remark that Oswald was a member of the Free Cuba Committee, a group populated with such notables as Clare Booth Luce, Admiral Arleigh Burke, and Hal Hendrix. "Bits of evidence link Ruby to others who may have been interested in Cuban affairs."
What was their recommendation, based on such tantalizing evidence? "We suggest that these matters cannot be left 'hanging in the air.' They must either be explored further or a firm decision must be made not to do so supported by stated reasons for the decision." History has given us the commission's decision on this, but a clue to the motivation shows up in this same memo, in regards to Seth Kantor, who claimed to have seen Ruby at Parkland hospital around the time of Kennedy's death. "We must decide who is telling the truth, for there would be considerable significance if it would be concluded that Ruby is lying." [emphasis added] The concern was not what the truth was, but what the truth might mean if it was uncomfortably discovered.
Ruby was lying, and the implications are enormous.
Cuban Excursions
Ruby had told the Warren Commission he had only been to Cuba once, on vacation, for a week to ten days. Not true. According to Cuban travel records, Jack Ruby entered Cuba from New Orleans on August 8, 1959; left Cuba September 11, 1959; re-entered Cuba from Miami on September 12, 1959; and returned from Cuba to New Orleans on September 13, 1959. 5 But bank records 6, Dallas police records 7, and FBI records 8 showed Ruby in Dallas August 10, 21, 31, and September 4, days which fall right in the middle of his supposedly continuous stay in Cuba. Somehow, Ruby was getting in and out of Cuba without the Cuban authorities detecting and recording such. Why was Ruby making multiple excursions to Cuba during this time? What were the nature of these visits and why did he choose to hide them?
The reticence of investigative bodies to investigate these matters make sense when one realizes that Jack Ruby was not going to Cuba on pleasure trips. The Warren Report tells of an incident in early 1959 where Ruby made "preliminary inquiries, as a middleman, concerning the possible sale to Cuba of some surplus jeeps located in Shreveport, La., and asked about the possible release of prisoners from a Cuban prison." 9 Ruby's sister indicated the jeeps might have been military surplus from W.W.II. 10 Both the story of the jeeps and the story of the prisoners tie Ruby to some interesting Cuban activities.
A Whole Lot of Jeeps
Texas gunrunner Robert McKeown said Ruby "had a whole lot of jeeps he wanted to get to Castro." Ruby wanted McKeown to write a personal letter of introduction to Castro for Ruby so he could talk to Castro about releasing some unnamed friends detained in Havana. 11
At that time, Santo Trafficante was being held at the Trescornia detention center in Cuba. Was Ruby instrumental in winning Trafficante's release at that time? John Wilson Hudson (a.k.a. John Wilson), an English journalist supposedly detained with Trafficante in the camp, indicated that Ruby came to see Trafficante in Trescornia. 12 After Ruby shot Oswald, according to CIA cables, Wilson contacted the American Embassy and reported that "an American gangster called Santo...was visited by an American gangster type named Ruby." 13 If Ruby was trying to sell jeeps to Castro, as McKeown said, was this an arms-for-hostages type deal? Get Castro the jeeps and get Trafficante out of jail? Recent events remind us this certainly wouldn't have been the only such effort in history. Trafficante was released from the detention center in August, 1959, 14 possibly just after Ruby's appearance there.
Questioning Trafficante
Trafficante is a person often portrayed as one of Ruby's mob contacts. But Trafficante was one of the "gangsters" who participated in the CIA's Castro assassination attempts, according to the CIA Inspector General's report. Key to understanding the seriousness of defining Trafficante's relationship with Ruby are the questions originally put to him before Blakey took over the HSCA, by then-chief counsel Richard Sprague. 15 To all of the following, Trafficante's response was, "I respectfully refuse to answer that question pursuant to my constitutional rights under the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments." This is the legal outlet allowed when a truthful answer will be self-incriminating, and Trafficante used it throughout.
"Mr. Trafficante, have you at any time been an employee, a contract employee, or in any manner been in the service of the Central Intelligence Agency, or any other agency of the Federal Government of the United States?"
The first question out of Sprague's mouth is probably indicative of why he was eventually ousted - he had a habit of getting right to the point:
"Mr. Trafficante, have you at any time been an employee, a contract employee, or in any manner been in the service of the Central Intelligence Agency, or any other agency of the Federal Government of the United States?"
The rest of the questions followed in a similar vein:
"Mr. Trafficante, did you know John Rosselli?"
"Mr. Trafficante, did you know Sam Giancana?"
"Mr. Trafficante, do you know Robert Maheu?"
"Mr. Trafficante, prior to November 22, 1963, did you have information that President Kennedy was going to be assassinated?"
"Mr. Trafficante, prior to November 22, 1963, did you advise other people of the assassination of President Kennedy?"
"Mr. Trafficante, prior to November 22, 1963, did you know Jack Ruby?"
"Mr. Trafficante, have you ever met with representatives of the Central Intelligence Agency to discuss the assassination of various world leaders, including Fidel Castro?"
"Mr. Trafficante, is any agency of the U.S. Government giving you any immunity with regard to any plans to assassinate any world leaders?"
"Mr. Trafficante, did you ever discuss with any individual plans to assassinate President Kennedy prior to his assassination?"
"Mr. Trafficante, while you were in prison in Cuba, were you visited by Jack Ruby?"
When the questions were opened to the others present, more questions followed in the same vein. Note: no one was asking questions about Trafficante's mob involvement. They were interested in his ties to the government:
"Mr. Trafficante, as a result of your appearance here today, have you been threatened by anyone, any group or agency? Has your life been threatened in any way?"
"Mr. Trafficante, have you been contacted by any agency in the executive branch, say the CIA or FBI, in connection with your possible testimony before or after you received formal subpena to appear before this committee?"
Trafficante's involvement with the CIA and Ruby bear further scrutiny. The Review Board should be asked to release all CIA and FBI files on Santo Trafficante.
The story of Jack Ruby getting Trafficante out of a Cuban jail was not the only such allegation. There is another allegation from a different source that Ruby was involved in some guns for hostages deal.
Nancy Perrin Rich told the Warren Commission a fascinating story about a group running Enfield rifles to Castro in order to run refugees out of Cuba to Florida. The guns were to be run through Mexico. Ruby was evidently the bagman for this group, since his appearance on at least one occasion made the cries about lack of money disappear when he walked in. 16
Nancy Perrin Rich's story is perhaps the most widely retold of Ruby's gunrunning episodes. But there are a number of other odd stories that bear dissemination, some with more substantiation than others. There are the new Elrod revelations that put Ruby in the middle of yet another gunrunning scenario. 17 And there is a story from Islamorada, Florida that leads to interesting places.
Jack and James
Mrs. Mary Thompson met a man named "Jack" accompanied by a women, not his wife, named "Isabel" at the home of Mary Lou and James Woodard in Islamorada, Florida. 18 At the time, Mary Thompson was accompanied by her daughter Dolores and Dolores's husband. Jack was said to be from Chicago originally. Mrs. Thompson placed the date of this encounter around the end of May of 1958. Interestingly enough, she said Jack's first real name was Leon but went by Jack. Jack Ruby's middle name was Leon.
Mary Lou Woodard said Jack had a trunk full of guns he was going to supply to Cubans. Mary Thompson stated she'd been told there were supplies of guns hidden in the marshes that were being collected by the Indians in the area to be sold to the Cubans, as this was around the time of the Cuban revolution. Mary Thompson's daughter Dolores also saw and described this same Jack, as did Mrs. W. R. Simons.
Dolores recalled that her husband's friend James Woodard, while drunk one night, declared he would run guns to Cuba with Jack. Woodard had two or three guns of his own but said Jack had a lot more. When shown a photo of Jack Ruby she said it resembled the man she remembered, although she didn't remember his last name as being "Ruby."
A check of the Knoxville FBI files showed that James Woodard was considered "armed and dangerous", packed a weapon, and had a violent temper when drinking. Interviewed by the FBI in September of 1963, Woodard "in somewhat rambling and incoherent manner" talked of his participation in an invasion of Cuba prior to the Castro regime, that he had again participated in the Bay of Pigs and had furnished ammunition and dynamite to both Castro and the Cuban exile forces. On October 8, 1963, Woodard was questioned again, this time concerning dynamite found at his residence in South Dade County, Florida, as the dynamite had been stolen from a construction company. He claimed the dynamite was being used by Cuban exile forces fighting the Castro regime.
After the assassination, James Woodard's sister said James had been in Texas a lot, and that she had asked James if he ever knew Ruby. He said no, but then promptly disappeared and hadn't been seen since November 25, 1963. If he truly had been running guns with Ruby to the CIA-sponsored Cuban exile forces, one can surely imagine a hefty motive for his sudden disappearance after Ruby appeared on the public scene by shooting Oswald. Woodard is another person whose records the Review Board should look into to shed light on Ruby's contacts with Cubans and gunrunning.
Perhaps Ruby was concerned enough to hide his activities not so much because he was running guns, but because of who he was running them for, and with.
By far the most interesting account of Ruby's gunrunning is found in an FBI report taken a week after the assassination. Informant "T-2" (Blaney Mack Johnson) revealed that in the early 1950s a man he knew then as "Rubenstein" arranged illegal flights of weapons to the Castro organization in Cuba. He added that Rubenstein "left Miami and purchased a substantial share in a Havana gaming house in which one COLLIS PRIO (phonetic) was principal owner." 19 One recognizes the name Carlos Prio Soccaras, especially when T-2 linked "COLLIS" to Batista. In the early 50s Prio was a supporter of the Batista regime under which he had grown exceedingly wealthy, but in the mid to late 50s Prio worked hand in hand with Castro, aided by the CIA, to overthrow the increasingly difficult Batista.
In a letter to Lee Rankin of the Warren Commission, Hoover had this to say of the ongoing (since 1952) investigation of Dr. Carlos Prio Socarras, a.k.a. Carlos Prio: "The neutrality and registration act investigation related primarily to the activities of Carlos Prio Socarras, who, with a number of others including McKeown, was involved in a conspiracy to ship arms, munitions, and other war materials to Fidel Castro to assist him in his efforts to overthrow the Batista regime in this investigation." 20 In the attachment, the FBI had McKeown knowing Castro and Carlos Prio Socarras personally. As referenced earlier, McKeown was the one who revealed Ruby's possible jeep deal and Ruby's attempt to get friends released from Cuban detention. McKeown also said that Ruby came to him offering a large sum of money in return for a personal letter of introduction to Castro. 21
Mysterious Mr. Browder
But T-2's account revealed possibly a contact of Ruby's even more interesting than Prio. T-2 stated that the man he recognized as Ruby but knew formerly as Rubenstein was smuggling arms to Cuba with one Donald Edward Browder. T-2 went on to name three people who he said could corroborate his story: Joe Marrs of Marrs Aircraft whom Ruby contracted to make flights to Cuba; former Chief of Police in Hialeah, Florida Leslie Lewis, who would know of Ruby's gunrunning and smuggling operations; and Clifton T. Bowes, Jr., formerly captain of National Airlines, Miami, for further corroboration.
Joe Marrs worked for Eastern Airlines. He claimed he never flew for hire or transported goods. He knew Browder, but claimed he avoided Browder as he saw him as a shady promoter who was all talk about air transport plans but no money (an amusing revelation from a man who just a few words earlier had said he didn't fly for hire.) 22
Les Lewis, the former Chief of Police, denied knowing Jack Ruby and claimed to have "no knowledge whatsoever of persons flying weapons to Cuba." A Hialeah Police Chief having no knowledge of persons flying weapons to Cuba in the fifties is a bit hard to believe. And of course, Lewis completely denied ever knowing a Donald Edward Browder. 23
Clifton T. Bowes was sure he never knew a Jack Rubenstein and said he first heard of Ruby watching him on television. He did not know a Donald Edward Browder but did claim to know Blaney Mack Johnson, saying he understood Johnson was ill and had been hospitalized, was "highly imaginative" 24, the usual FBI line for an unwelcome witness.
When the FBI collected these denials, they returned to Johnson. Johnson stuck tightly by his story and insisted all the information he had provided had been true and accurate. He also said he understood why Lewis, Marrs and Bowes would have lied to conceal their knowledge of and/or involvement in Ruby's activities. And of course, Johnson replied he had never been hospitalized.
Enter Eddie Browder. Eddie Browder testified before the House Select Committee on Assassinations in the 70s. 25 He was a former Lockheed test pilot who was serving a 25-year prison sentence for "security violations." He told the committee he worked for the CIA. One time he had leased a B-25 bomber under the name of a non-existent company and flown it to Haiti a year after the Kennedy assassination. He cashed a check signed by George DeMohrenschildt's Haitian business associate Clemard Charles, in the amount of $24,000. What's interesting is that the HSCA used Browder's testimony in the DeMohrenschildt section, not the Jack Ruby section. Is there a tie there linking DeMohrenschildt to Jack Ruby? Only three small "innocuous" reports of the more than 1000 pages the FBI has on Browder were released to the Warren Commission. 26 It's time the remaining documents on Browder, including the full text of his executive session testimony before the HSCA, were released. Any Browder who used the Don Eduardo alias 27, worked with DeMohrenschildt, and ran guns with Ruby to Cuba is worthy of further study.

(Continued in the next issue of Probe.)
Notes
George Michael Evica, And We Are All Mortal (University of Hartford, 1978), p. 161. (Back to text)
Peter Dale Scott, Deep Politics and the Death of JFK (University of California Press, Ltd, 1993), p. 179. (Back to text)
Memorandum to J. Lee Rankin from Leon D. Hubert and Burt W. Griffin, May 14, 1964, p. 3. (Back to text)
Memorandum to J. Lee Rankin from Leon D. Hubert and Burt W. Griffin, May 14, 1964, p. 4. (Back to text)
HSCA, Vol. 5, pp. 197-198. (Back to text)
HSCA, Vol. 5, p. 204. On page 205 Stokes said that Ruby was admitted to his box on August 20th, but the copy of the FBI report on the bank records on the previous page show both a typewritten date of August 21 and a handwritten note with the same date. (Back to text)
Anthony Summers, Conspiracy (Paragon House paperback edition, 1989), p. 439. (Back to text)
HSCA, Vol. 5, p. 221. (Back to text)
Report of the Warren Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy (McGraw-Hill Book Company, 1964), p. 345. (Back to text)
WC Vol. 26, p. 661, CE 3069. (Back to text)
Summers, p. 437 (Back to text)
Summers, p. 441. (Back to text)
Summers, p. 440; HSCA Vol. 5, p. 365. (Back to text)
HSCA, Vol. 5, p. 325. (Back to text)
HSCA, Hearings March 16, 1977, pp.37-41. (Back to text)
WC Vol. 14, pp. 349-350. (Back to text)
For a lengthy treatment of Elrod, see the article by Ray and Mary La Fontaine, The Washington Post, 8/7/94, "The Fourth Tramp". (Back to text)
WC Vol. 26, p. 642-649. (Back to text)
WC Vol. 26, p. 634, CE 3063. (Back to text)
WC Vol. 26, p. 650, CE 3066. (Back to text)
Summers, p. 437. (Back to text)
WC Vol. 26, p. 639. (Back to text)
WC Vol. 26, p. 639. (Back to text)
WC Vol. 26, p. 640. (Back to text)
Jim Marrs, Crossfire (Carrol & Graf, 1989), p. 284. (Back to text)
Marrs, p. 392. (Back to text)
Don Eduardo was a well known alias of E. Howard Hunt. But James McCord also used the name Don Eduardo. Jim Hougan, Secret Agenda (Random House, 1984), p. 80. Blaney Mack Johnson said Don Edward Browder was sometimes called "Don Eduardo." WC Vol. 26, p. 642. (Back to text)

So whats all of your opinions on Lee Harvey Oswald?

The CIA admitted that they forged the Oswald -Mexico City visit. Wasn't him on the tapes or photos. Doctored.
From Russia,Oswald would not have returned so easily in to the US at the time but probably would have been held on charges.
This Oswald is hanging out at Guy Bannisters in New Orleans(a gunrunner). All the left wing stuff is bull...a cover for an agent like himself. He was also a radar operator. He was photographed with Jack RUby, and friends with the White Russian community in Dallas.
Pretty connected for a "commie" eh? Oswald I believe, had to die because he was a loose link. A perfect patsy. There would be no trial for Jackie Kennedy to attend now in Texas...it was over...a perfect cover up by authorities in charge. They covered all the bases. Doubtful he shot Tippet. He also had a CIA case officer and an FBI liaison upon his return from Russia.

I miiiight have heard this, or maybe its a figment of my imagination buuuuut wasnt there a theory of some sort of super mechanical, technological gun if you will, that was used to off JFK?

most interesting theory ive heard lately is that the limo driver did it

id like to see photo/video evidence of that

well the theories i have heard myself are:

1) the CIA is responsible, because JFK wanted to shut it down and he was poking too much in their business.

2) the maffia was responsible, because he had some problems with them.

3) the most outrageous one that ive heard is that it was his wife because he was fooling around with marilyn monroe.

If you haven't seen MPI's digitized version of the Zapruder film then you must get it...a 24.00$ investment, maybe you can rent it at the library. It shows a lot more angles of the film, slows it down, clarifies scenes and shows the driver and the passenger at the time of the shooting...watch the driver closely. His hand and head movements are timed perfectly with JFKs head being blown off. The angle is perfect. The car slowed down for this.The original Zap. film never showed the two agents and was very unstable also the head shot on the original was masked over. To get a copy go to MPI's website:http://www.mpihomevideo.com/productdetail.asp?pid=1547

I don't know who killed JFK....I do believe that Oswald did not....the reasons why he was assassinated will be argued among conspiracy theorists forever.

Oswald did intend to kill JFK but missed. He shot Connally but missed the President. But that was to be expected by the assassinators. They had a back-up plan just in case Oswald missed.

What was the back up plan? So glad you asked.

A mathematician calculated that the trajectory of the bullet had to have come from an angle lower than the vehicle....no way could a bullet from high above have impacted the head in the way that it was shown in the video. It had to have come from below. From below? The Mathematician, working on that theory, walked the same path the motorcade followed. At the point where Kennedy took the bullet he noticed something interesting....a storm drain for the street. Between the curb and the street was an opening of approximately 8 inches by 5 feet. These are common in the streets around the Dallas metroplex. The rain water runs into these 'slits' and then through a culvert system until it finally exits into what locally is know as the 'concrete rivers'. The Mathematician was able to locate an entrance to the culvert system far from the area and was able to easily access that critical spot where the motorcade would be in plain site. This explains why so many people heard a shot from the grassy knoll.

His theory is that someone was waiting under the street and then once they shot JFK they just walked away and 'disappeared' into the city.

Hey joc Im ot trying to push an angle in this post I just wanted to ask you if you haveseen the digitized version from MPI? You should try to get a copy or see if your library carries it.

If this information dmgspycat is true or atleast highly think its true, why wont the government admit this information so I could believe it truly, truly.

You can't run a government without money, and since the people that had this carried out also have the money ...you might think of them as unstoppable. They are the government...especially after 11/22/63. Who else has the power after 40 years to keep things hidden...to whitewash committees...to make witnesses dissappear? What people am I talking about? Robert Lovett, Prescott Bush, Allen Dulles, Henry Cabot Lodge, C. Douglass Dillon...for starters.

joc, that theory you posted makes alot of sense.

has anyone heard of the "Magic Bullet" theory?

this was the idea that only one bullet wounded both JFK and Governor Connally, who was sitting in front of him. this was the first bullet that hit JFK and not the one that split his head open.

The Warren Commission, who was investigated this, came to this conclusion.
One bullet went through Kennedy's back, through his throat, into the seat in front of him and going through Connally's shoulder, then into Connally's wrist, and finding a home in his right thigh.

here's a picture of it
and by it i mean the theory
seem's kinda odd to me.
this website has more information on this theory.

JR Ewing... It was all about the oil...

ALL of you RIGHT NOW go listen to the song BULLET by The Misfits.

I haven't even heard of it. And let me be perfectly clear on this particular issue:

I believe the CIA targeted Kennedy! Yesssss...it's true .... I do, I do. And the reasons you stated about Cuba and such are just if not more valid than any I have heard before.

What I do know is this: We weren't savy like we are today as far as security goes...but gimme a break..the President in an open Limo? It is more like there was ZERO security.
We are involved in a Cold War with Russia and considering the Cuban missle crisis and all...it wasn't even just plain stupid to have him in the limo like that...it was on purpose. I will give you the defaulto thumbs up on this one....you have obviously researched it more than I...(but then again you're a conspicracy kook and I'm not )

But have you ever heard the theory before of the gun from below?

[quote=dmgspycat,Mar 7 2005, 07:44 PM]
[quote=Mysteryman,Mar 7 2005, 11:25 PM]So whats all of your opinions on Lee Harvey Oswald?
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[/quote]



Now this is just my own personal, correct opinion, but I think that LHO didn't even fire a shot that day. I believe that he was positioned in the School Book Depository thinking that he was doing something beneficial for the government. I don't know what that "something" would have been, but I think he thought it was important. Once JFK was killed right outside of his building, I think LHO realized that he had been set up as the patsy and panicked. He went home, grabbed a gun for protection and left. While he was at his boarding house, a police car pulled up in front of the house and honked. Was this a signal to get moving? A warning? Who knows? About this time an APB went out with a description basically describing Oswald. How did that happen so quickly? Tippett was then shot fairly close to LHO's house, but before Oswald had time to get there. More witnesses than not say that Oswald was not the shooter. He was then arrested at the Texas Theater where he had gone to avoid the dragnet taking place on the streets of Oak Cliff. Two days later, he was shot and killed. Hours worth of interrogation of Oswald by police was not recorded and the few notes that were taken were destroyed. Seems like a very clean operation to identify, charge, show the nation, and eliminate a patsy. Conspiracy always has such a negative/whacko connotation, but anyone involved with a plan to assassinate a president of the United States would be smart to place the blame somewhere else.

I always felt the relationship of Richard Nixon and E. Howard Hunt to be too coincidental to overlook.

Nixon Motive:
Kennedy defeated NIXON in the 1960 presidential race making he future chance of attaining the highest office in the land implausible at best. Nixon knew if his aspirations of the presidency were to be fulfilled, Kennedy would need to be removed from the equation.

Hunt Motive:
E. Howard Hunt led the CIA covert mission on Cuba with the promise that JFK would provide air support in the event of a confrontation when the CIA reached the beach. JFK reniged on his promise and many CIA operatives were killed and wounded.

Hunt had the CIA connections to put a plan in motion, and Nixon had the funds to support it.

As we all know, Gerald Ford who sat on the infamous Warren Commission that was accused of covering up many of the details of the assination later ran as Nixon's VP running mate.

E. Howard Hunt was the same E. Howard Hunt that led the break-in on the Watergate Democratic headquarters that eventually lead to the discovery of 18 minutes of erased presidential tape recordings that many speculate was conversation about the assination of JFK. Ultimately this lead to Nixon's resignation which he chose to escape the impeachment process that could have exposed his role in the JFK assination.

Gerald Ford became president.

yes ive seen a documentary where they show a man in the storm drain showing how this would be possible

very believeable

i know LHO could not have done it alone as a single shooter but im not sure who else was involved

seems as important as this "mission" would be i could believe that both the man in the drain and the limo driver could have been used as LHO back-ups

maybe the shot count went LHO shoots 1st, if he misses the drain man shoots, last resort the driver handles it

I agree with Sunofone. I think the Big Banks had the most to lose if Kennedy stayed alive. He was going bring back the Greenback,(print our own money) and take out the Federal Reserve. Others had motive - the CIA was to be broken up - but money is the world's most powerful motivator. And the bankers contol the media - why else would the truth still be covered up?

"The Rothschilds conquered the world more thoroughly, more cunningly, and much more lastingly than all the Caesars before. It was precisely their international character that gave the Rothschild banks unique advantages over national banks and governments, and that was precisely what rulers and national parliaments should have prohibited, but did not. This remains true of international or multinational banks to this very day, and is the driving force of globalisation - the push for one-world government."

I belive this one is acurate

MMMM..Kennedy Burgers!javascript:add_smilie(":su")
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Oswald used a military surplus Carcano, a 6.5mm bolt action rifle. Firearms technology still hasn't changed a great deal since World War One. You don't need some superweapon to hit a target at - what - eighty yards away? You don't need a gerat deal of skill, either. The shot has been duplicated several times with a similar weapon, ammunition and at the same angle, and even at moving targets.

And if you had such an exotic weapon, why use it? You'd only be revealing that serious players were at work.

JFK was killed by Lee Oswald, a disturbed loser who inflicted himself on innocent people. Some people don't want to believe that a nobody like him could affect the lives of so many, and they embrace these convoluted conspiracy theories. It doesn't help things that the Warren commission report was FUBAR, either. That only adds fuel to the fire.

Even the Select Committee on Assassinations of the U.S. House of Representatives has determined
"In conclusion, the committee found that the scientific acoustical evidence established a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John f. Kennedy."

Link http://www.archives.gov/research_room/jfk/...ort_gunmen.html

Even the Feds can't deny ALL the evidence!

I KNEW IT!!!!
LOL

I think anyone mob related did it..I always thought it had to do with
Marilyn Monroe when she died it sparked a debate that would last more than 40 years and generate many theories, including that of murder. Some of these theories even implicated John F. Kennedy and his brother Robert in the mysterious death.




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Harvey, Lee and Tippit:
A New Look at the Tippit Shooting
By John Armstrong
At 10:00 AM on Wednesday, November 20, 1963, Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit was having coffee at the Dobbs House Restaurant. Another man, known to employees as a regular "coffee customer," was complaining loudly about his order of eggs to waitress Mary Dowling. Tippit, a frequent customer, noticed the incident but said nothing. The man complaining was later identified by the owner and employees of the Dobbs House as "Lee Harvey Oswald."
On the morning of November 22nd, J.D. Tippit hugged his oldest son Allen and said, "no matter what happens today, I want you to know that I love you." Such overt signs of affection toward his son were uncharacteristic of Tippit. This was the last time young Allen Tippit saw his father alive. Some time later, "Lee Harvey Oswald" was seen at the Top Ten Record Store-a block from the Texas Theater. Oswald returned a short time later and was in the small record shop at the same time J.D. Tippit was there. An hour later Lee Oswald walked into the Jiffy Store on Industrial Blvd near Dealey Plaza. He purchased two bottles of beer and was asked for identification by store clerk Fred Moore. When Oswald displayed his Texas driver's license, Moore remembered the birthdate on the license as "October, 1939." When Oswald returned a short time later he purchased "peco" brittle. Beer and peco brittle seemed an unusual combination and was remembered by Fred Moore.
Neither the employees nor owners of the Dobbs House Restaurant, Top Ten Record Store or the Jiffy Store were called to testify before the Warren Commission. And with good reason. On November 20th and 22nd, "Lee Harvey Oswald" was working at the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD). He could not have been at the Dobbs House Restaurant nor the Top Ten Record Store in Oak Cliff, nor the Jiffy Store on Industrial Blvd.
The Tippit shooting, like the Kennedy assassination, has befuddled researchers for years. One of the main problems has been witness testimony placing Oswald in different places at the same time. Was Oswald in the 6th floor window or the 2nd floor lunchroom of the TSBD at the time of the assassination? Did Oswald leave Dealey Plaza in William Whaley's cab or in a Rambler Station Wagon? Was Oswald sitting in the Texas Theater or shooting Officer Tippit at 1:15 PM? If Oswald was in the Dallas Jail at 2:00 PM, who was the man, identified as "Lee Harvey Oswald," driving a red Ford Falcon on West Davis Street in Oak Cliff-a car with license plates that belonged to J.D. Tippit's best friend?
Other questions remain unanswered. Why were the spent cartridges given to Officer Poe at the scene of the Tippit shooting not identified by him four months later? Was there enough time for Oswald to have walked from 1026 N. Beckley to 10th & Patton? Why did some witnesses identify Oswald as Tippit's killer while others did not? The questions seem to multiply. The Warren Commission carefully chose a few select witnesses and questionable evidence to support their conclusion that Oswald shot Tippit. But when all of the evidence surrounding the Tippit shooting is properly examined, a far different picture emerges.
Leaving Dealey Plaza
Shortly before 12:30 PM a photograph captured the image of a man in the southwest corner window of the TSBD. (This photograph can be found in The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald on page 109.) The man appears to be wearing a white T-shirt and has a hairline nearly identical to a photograph of Lee Oswald taken by Robert Oswald (Lee, page 96-97). Arnold Rowland described a person wearing "a light-colored shirt," probably the same man, at the west end window of the 6th floor 15 minutes before the assassination. The man in the window could have been "Lee Oswald" who had been impersonating and setting up "Harvey Oswald" as a patsy for the past three months. (See my two previous articles "Harvey and Lee" in the last two editions of Probe.)
Jack Ruby telephoned a friend on November 22nd and asked if he would "like to watch the fireworks." Unknown to Ruby, his friend was an informant for the criminal intelligence division of the Internal Revenue Service. He and Ruby were standing at the corner of the Postal Annex Building at the time of the shooting. Minutes after the shooting Phil Willis, who knew Jack Ruby, saw and photographed a man who looked like Ruby near the front of the School Book Depository.
Harvey Oswald told police he had been in the lunchroom at the time of the assassination and had "committed no acts of violence." Coworker Charles Douglas Givens remembered Oswald wore a brown, long sleeved shirt the day of the assassination. This brown shirt was noticed by Mary Bledsoe when Oswald boarded the Marsalis bus and again by cab driver William Whaley when he drove Oswald to Oak Cliff. Although many people have felt Whaley was not credible, I think there is reason to believe his original, pre-Warren Commission identification because of the other details he noticed, such as an identification bracelet on his left wrist. Oswald was later photographed wearing just such a bracelet and the bracelet appears in the Dallas Police inventory as well. Whaley described, in various separate reports, a dark or brown shirt with a light or shiny colored streak in it.
Does this mean Lee Oswald (white shirt) and Harvey Oswald (brown shirt) were both in the TSBD at the time of the assassination? Did they both leave Dealey Plaza shortly after the assassination? Let us follow the evidence.
On the Oak Cliff side of the Houston Street viaduct is the Good Luck Oil Company service station (GLOCO). Five witnesses saw J.D. Tippit arrive at the GLOCO station at 12:45 PM. He sat in his car and watched traffic cross the bridge from Dallas for about 10 minutes. There were no police dispatches ordering Tippit to this location. If Tippit was not somehow involved, why was he sitting there watching traffic? Within a minute of the cab passing the GLOCO station, Tippit left and sped south on Lancaster. Two minutes later, at 12:54 PM, Tippit answered his dispatcher and said he was at "8th and Lancaster"-a mile south of the GLOCO Station. He turned right on Jefferson Blvd. and stopped at the Top Ten Record Store a few minutes before 1:00 PM. Store owner Dub Stark and clerk Louis Cortinas watched Tippit rush into the store and use the telephone. Without completing his call or speaking to store personnel Tippit left, jumped into his squad car, and sped north across Jefferson Blvd. He ran a stop sign, turned right on Sunset and was last seen speeding east-one block from N. Beckley. Tippit was then two minutes (at 45 mph) from Oswald's rooming house. Tippit's whereabouts for the next 8-10 minutes remain unknown.
Cab driver Whaley let Harvey Oswald off near the corner of Neeley and Beckley around 12:54 PM (Tippit was driving past 8th & Lancaster). Oswald walked 6 blocks to his rooming house arriving near 1:00 (Tippit was at the Top 10 Record Store). Housekeeper Earlene Roberts told Secret Service Agent William Carter (12/5/63) "Oswald did not have a jacket when he came in the house and I don't recall what type of clothing he was wearing." While inside his room, Earlene Roberts glanced out her front window and saw a Dallas police car drive by slowly and honk the horn twice. She told the Warren Commission the police car was #107. Tippit's car was #10. If this car was not Tippit's, then whose car was it? All other Dallas Police cars were accounted for that day. While in his room, Oswald changed pants and, if you believe the Warren Commission, picked up his gun. Yet Earlene Roberts cleaned his extremely small room. She never saw a gun, nor a holster.
On November 30th, FBI Agent Alan Manning interviewed Mrs. Evelyn Harris. In his summary of that interview, he wrote:
the daughter of Mrs. Lucy Lopez, a white woman married to a Mexican, worked at a sewing room across the street from the TSBD. Her daughter and some of the other girls knew Lee Harvey Oswald and also were acquainted with Jack Ruby. They observed Jack Ruby give Oswald a pistol when Oswald came out of the building.
This writer does not offer an opinion regarding the allegations stated in this FBI report. It is a fact that Oswald tried to fire a pistol in the Texas Theater (heard by Dallas Police officers and theater patrons). It is a fact that the FBI determined that this pistol had a defective firing pin. One has to wonder how a pistol with a defective firing pin could fire four shots at Officer Tippit and then fail to fire in the theater. If the girls are correct, Ruby could have intentionally given Oswald a pistol with a defective firing pin. This allegation was never followed up by the FBI, as there are no known interviews of these girls nor was Ruby ever questioned about this.
Harvey Oswald left the rooming house wearing a "dark jacket" and was last seen by Earlene Roberts on the corner of Zang and Beckley around 1:03 PM. During the next few minutes Oswald managed to get to the Texas Theater, over a mile away, without being seen by anyone en route. The only explanation that makes sense is that he was driven to the theater-a two and one half minute ride-perhaps by Tippit.
The Texas Theater
Researcher Jones Harris interviewed Julia Postal in 1963. When Harris asked Julia Postal if she had sold a ticket to "Oswald" (the man arrested), she burst into tears and left the room. A short time later Harris again asked Postal if she sold a ticket to "Oswald" and got the same response. From Postal's refusal to answer this question and her reaction to same, Harris believes that Postal did sell "Oswald" a theater ticket. On February 29, 1964 Postal told FBI Agent Arthur Carter "she was unable to recall whether or not he bought a ticket." (A few months later, when the Warren Report was issued, Postal's memory had improved. She was now certain the man did not buy a ticket. See page 178 of the report.)
Butch Burroughs, an employee of the Texas Theater, heard someone enter the theater shortly after 1:00 PM and go to the balcony. Harvey Oswald had apparently entered the theater and gone to the balcony without being seen by Burroughs. About 1:15 PM Harvey came down from the balcony and bought popcorn from Burroughs. Burroughs watched him walk down the aisle and take a seat on the main floor. He sat next to Jack Davis during the opening credits of the first movie, several minutes before 1:20 PM. Harvey then moved across the aisle and sat next to another man. A few minutes later Davis noticed he moved again and sat next to a pregnant woman. Just before the police arrived, the pregnant woman went to the balcony and was never seen again. In addition to Harvey there were seven people watching the movie on the main level (six after the pregnant woman left). Within 10 minutes, he had sat next to half of them.
We have followed the probable movements of the man wearing the "brown shirt," Harvey Oswald, from the Book Depository, to the bus, to the cab and to the rooming house. We still don't know how he managed to get from the rooming house to the Texas Theater without being seen. What about Lee Oswald, the man wearing the "white shirt," and possibly seen by Arnold Rowland in the west end window of the 6th floor shortly before the assassination?
The Man on the 6th Floor?
Another man was seen on the sixth floor shortly before the assassination by Richard Carr. Carr described him as "heavy set, wearing a hat, tan sport coat and horn rim glasses." Minutes after the shooting, James Worrell saw a person described as "5'10" and wearing some sort of coat" leave the rear of the Depository heading south on Houston Street. Carr saw the same man and recognized him as the man he had seen on the 6th floor of the Book Depository. The man walked south on Houston, turned east on Commerce, and got into a Rambler station wagon parked on the corner of Commerce and Record. The Rambler was next seen in front of the Book Depository by Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig. Craig saw a person wearing a light-colored, short-sleeved shirt, who he later identified as Oswald, get into the station wagon and then travel under the triple overpass towards Oak Cliff. Marvin Robinson was driving his Cadillac when the Rambler station wagon in front of him abruptly stopped in front of the Book Depository. A young man walked down the grassy incline and got into the station wagon which subsequently sped away under the triple overpass. A third witness, Roy Cooper, was behind Marvin Robinson's Cadillac. He observed a white male wave at, enter, and leave in the station wagon. A photograph, taken by Jim Murray, shows a man wearing a light-colored short-sleeved shirt headed toward the Nash Rambler station wagon in front of the Book Depository. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig, also in the photo, is pictured looking at the man and the station wagon. The Hertz sign, on top of the Book Depository, shows the time as 12:40 PM. The man in the white shirt, possibly Lee Oswald, left Dealey Plaza in the station wagon and was last seen heading toward Oak Cliff.
Scene of the Shooting
Twenty minutes later, in Oak Cliff, a man resembling Lee Oswald is seen hurrying past the 10th Street Barber Shop-a block from Jack Ruby's apartment. Mr. Clark, a barber, said he saw a man he would bet "his life on" was Oswald passing his shop in a great hurry. At 1:00 PM bricklayer William Lawrence Smith left his construction job for lunch at the Town and Country Cafe-two doors west of the 10th Street Barber Shop. While walking east to the cafe a man, who he later identified as Oswald, walked passed him heading west-toward 10th & Patton. A minute later, Oswald was seen by Jimmy Burt and William. A. Smith walking west. The Warren Commission told us Oswald was walking east.
The clock read 1:04 PM as Helen Markham left the washateria of her apartment house near the corner of 9th & Patton. While walking south on Patton she noticed a police car driving slowly east on 10th Street. One half block in front of Markham, on the opposite side of Patton, cab driver William Scoggins was eating lunch in his cab. Scoggins noticed a man walking west as Tippit's patrol car passed slowly in front of him. Jack Tatum, sitting in his red 1964 Ford Galaxie a block east, noticed the same man turn and walk toward the police car. Tatum turned left onto 10th street and drove slowly west past Tippit's car. Tippit was then talking to the man through the passenger side car window. Tatum said "it looked as if Oswald and Tippit were talking to each other. There was a conversation. It did seem peaceful. It was almost as if Tippit knew Oswald." Tatum noticed that the man had dark hair, was wearing a white T-shirt, white jacket and had his hands in his pockets. Seconds later Tatum drove past Helen Markham, who was standing at the corner of 10th & Patton, waiting for him to pass. The police car was stopped 100 feet to the east. She noticed a man was talking to the policeman through the car window. Domingo Benavides, in his 1958 Chevrolet pickup, was driving west on 10th Street approaching Tippit's car. Jimmy Burt and William Arthur Smith were sitting on the front porch at 505 E. 10th.
Officer Tippit got out of his patrol car and was walking to the front of the car when the man pulled out a gun and shot him. Startled by the shots, Benavides turned his truck into the curb and ducked under the dash-he was 20 feet away. William A. Smith and Jimmy Burt ran towards Burt's car. Markham fell to her knees, covered her eyes, and began screaming.
When Jack Tatum heard shots, he stopped his car, looked over his shoulder and saw Tippit lying on the ground. He saw the gunman walk around the rear of the police car, then turn and walk along the driver's side of the car to where Tippit had fallen. The man then shot Tippit in the head. Tatum said "whoever shot Tippit was determined that he shouldn't live and he was determined to finish the job." Smith and Burt jumped in Burt's 1952 blue Ford and sped to the scene of the shooting-less than a block away. Burt got out of the car in time to see Tippit's assailant hurrying south on Patton Street. Smith described Tippit's killer as wearing a white shirt, light brown jacket, dark pants and dark hair.
After the Shooting
Frank Wright and his wife (a half block east at 501 E 10th), and Acquilla Clemmons (one block west at 327 E. 10th) heard shots, but did not actually see the shooting. Wright, nearly a block east, said he saw a man standing over a policeman who had just been shot but did not see a gun. The man got into a car facing the opposite direction and drove off. The car was described by Wright as a gray, 1951 Plymouth coupe. Wright is the only witness who claimed the assailant drove off in a car. Clemmons, nearly a block west, said she saw another person that appeared to be involved with the shooter in some way. She is the only witness who implied that two people were involved in the shooting.
We know Arthur Smith and Jimmy Burt, a block east, drove to the scene of the shooting within a half minute. Burt jumped out of his car and ran to the corner, a distance of 100 feet, in time to see the assailant scurrying south on Patton. Jimmy Burt may have been the second man seen by Clemmons. Burt quickly returned to his car and immediately drove off. Burt may have been the man seen by Frank Wright (a block east) leaving in a car described by Wright as a "grey, 1951 Plymouth coupe," although Burt left the scene driving his two tone blue 1952 Ford.
Wright's wife called the police to report the shooting. After several minutes Domingo Benavides got out of his pickup and tried to use the police radio. Mr. Bowley, who was driving west on 10th Street and did not see the shooting, stopped and used the police radio to report the shooting. Bowley looked at his watch-the time was 1:10 PM (Commission Exhibit 2003). Helen Markham, who was walking to catch the 1:12 PM bus for work, said the shooting occurred at 1:06 PM. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig was aiding in the search of the TSBD building. When he heard the news that a police officer had been shot he looked at his watch and noted the time was 1:06 PM. An original police transcript, found in the National Archives, lists the time of transmission as 1:10 PM. If Markham, Bowley, Craig, and the original Dallas Police broadcast times are correct, Tippit was shot prior to 1:10-when Harvey was very likely sitting in the balcony of Texas Theater. If Tippit was shot as early as 1:10, "Harvey Oswald" could not possibly have ran from his rooming house to 10th & Patton, a distance of 1.2 miles, in 6 minutes. In addition to this time problem, not a single witness, in heavily populated Oak Cliff, saw anyone resembling Harvey Oswald after the Tippit shooting (except Mrs. Roberts and those at the Texas Theater).
In order for the Warren Commission to assert that Oswald killed Tippit, there had to be enough time for him to walk from his rooming house to 10th & Patton-over a mile away. The Warren Commission and HSCA ignored Markham's time of 1:06 PM, did not interview Bowley (1:10 PM), did not ask Roger Craig (1:06 PM) and did not use the time shown on original Dallas police logs. Instead, the Warren Commission (1964) concluded that Oswald walked that distance in 13 minutes. The House Select Committee on Assassinations (1978) determined the time was 14 minutes, 30 seconds. Both concluded Oswald was last seen at the corner of Beckley and Zang at 1:03 PM. Either of their times, 13 minutes or 14 minutes and 30 seconds, would place Oswald at 10th & Patton at 1:16 PM or later. The time of the Tippit shooting as placed by the Commission,1:16 PM, contradicted the testimony of Markham, Bowley, Craig and the Dallas Police log. Another problem for the Warren Commission to overcome was the direction in which Oswald was walking. If he was walking west, as all of the evidence suggested, he would have had to cover even more ground in the same unreasonably short period of time. The Dallas Police recorded that the defendent was walking "west in the 400 block of East 10th." The Commission ignored the evidence-5 witnesses and the official Dallas Police report of the event-and said he was walking east, away from the Texas Theatre.
Whose Jacket is it Anyway?
An ambulance was dispatched from Dudley Hughes Funeral Home (allegedly at 1:18 PM) and arrived within a minute. Tippit's body was quickly loaded into the ambulance by Clayton Butler, Eddie Kinsley (both Dudley Hughes employees) and Mr. Bowley. Tippit's body was en route to the Hospital by the time the Police arrived. Dallas Police Officer Westbrook found a brown wallet next to where Tippit had fallen. He showed the wallet to FBI Agent Barrett. The wallet contained identification, including a driver's license, for Lee Harvey Oswald. It seems unbelievable that anyone would leave a wallet, containing identification, next to a policeman he has just shot. But Barrett insists Oswald's wallet was found at the Tippit murder scene. If Tippit's assailant was the man who impersonated Harvey Oswald for the previous two months, setting him up for the assassination, then the wallet was left at the scene of the Tippit shooting for the authorities to find. Perhaps this was Lee Oswald's last act of setting up Harvey as a "patsy." If so, it left Lee without identification and gave the police a reason to search for that cop killer, Lee Harvey Oswald.
Virginia Davis saw Tippit's killer, possibly Lee Oswald, cross her yard at 400 E. 10th while shaking the empty shells out of his gun. Virginia found an empty shell and turned it over to Dallas Police Detective Dhority. Barbara Davis, Virginia's older sister, found a second shell and turned it over to Dallas Police Captain George M. Doughty. Domingo Benavides found two more empty shells and pointed them out to Officer J. M. Poe. Poe wrote his initials on the inside of the shells and put them in an empty cigarette package.
Lee Oswald hurried south on Patton and passed within 60 feet of Ted Callaway, manager of Harris Brothers Auto Sales (501 E. Jefferson). Callaway noticed Oswald's white "Eisenhower type" jacket and white T-shirt. When shown the brown shirt worn by Harvey Oswald when arrested, Callaway told the Warren Commission "Sir, when I saw him he didn't have-I couldn't see this shirt." He noticed Oswald's face was "very flush" and had dark hair. Sam Guinyard, who worked as a porter for Callaway, told the police he saw a "white man" running south on Patton.
Warren Reynolds saw a man "run south on Patton toward Jefferson Street and then walk at a fast rate of speed west on Jefferson." He last observed the individual turn north by the Ballew Texaco Service Station. When later shown a photograph of Oswald, Reynolds said he would hesitate to identify Oswald as the individual he saw. L. J. Lewis, standing beside Reynolds, observed the same man and said he "would hesitate to state whether the individual was identical with Oswald." Harold Russell and B. M. Patterson were with Reynolds and Lewis at the time of the shooting. They identified the individual they saw as Oswald from a photograph.
The man wearing a white shirt and jacket hurried west on Jefferson and passed the Ballew Texaco Station. Mary Brock said an individual with a "light complexion" and wearing "light clothing" walked passed her at a fast pace with his hands in his pockets. Five minutes later Reynolds and Patterson appeared at the station making inquiry as to whether she had noticed a man pass the station. She advised that she last saw the individual when he proceeded north behind the station. Mrs. Brock identified the individual as Oswald from a New Orleans police photograph, but not until ten months later.
According to the Warren Report, Tippit's killer discarded a light-colored jacket underneath a 1954 Oldsmobile in the parking lot next to the Texaco station. This left him wearing only a white T-shirt. The jacket, soon found by police, was later described (CE 2003) as a grey man's jacket, "M" size in collar (medium, even though all of Oswald's other clothes were sized small), zipper opening, name tag "created in California by Maurice Holman." There were numerous laundry marks-"30" and "650" in the collar, K-42 printed on a Tag-O-lectric type marking machine. On the bottom of the jacket was another laundry tag "B-9738." The cleaning tags and laundry marks noted on the inside of the jacket suggest it was professionally cleaned on several occasions. The FBI tried and failed to locate a cleaning establishment from which any of these cleaning tags originated. The FBI examined all of Oswald's other clothing and failed to find a single laundry tag or mark. Marina told the FBI (CE 1843) that "Lee Harvey Oswald" had only two jackets, one a heavy jacket, blue in color (later found at the TSBD), and another light jacket, grey in color. She said both of these jackets were purchased in Russia. Neither of these jackets were ever sent to any laundry or cleaners anywhere-she recalled washing them herself.
According to DPD and FBI interviews of witnesses on November 22nd and 23rd, Tippit's killer was described as a white male, wearing black or dark pants; black shoes; black or dark brown hair; flush, light or red complexion; white shirt or white T-shirt, and a white or tan or otherwise light-colored Eisenhower type jacket. Police broadcasts (CE 1974) described the suspect as a "white male, about 30, 5'8," black hair, slender, wearing a white jacket, white shirt and dark slacks." The descriptions of Tippit's killer by several witnesses and police broadcasts are reasonably consistent with each other, but not with the Oswald arrested minutes later at the Texas Theater.
Man in the Balcony, Man in the Alley
Johnny C. Brewer claimed that on the day of the assassination, he saw a man standing in the lobby of his shoe store at about 1:30 PM. He watched the man walk west on Jefferson and thought (Brewer says he is not positive) that he ducked into the Texas Theater. It was not until December 6th, two weeks after Harvey Oswald's arrest, that Brewer described the man he saw as wearing a brown shirt. He asked theater cashier Julia Postal if she had sold the man a ticket. Postal replied "she did not think so, but she had been listening to the radio and did not remember." She did remember, when testifying before the Warren Commission, that she sold 24 tickets that day.
The Texas Theater has a main floor level and a balcony. Upon entering the theater from the "outside doors," there are stairs leading to the balcony on the right. Straight ahead are a second set of "inside doors" leading to the concession stand and the main floor. It is possible to go directly to the balcony, without being seen by people at the concession stand, by climbing the stairs to the right. Brewer walked through the first and second set of double doors to the concession stand. He asked Butch Burroughs, who operated the concession stand, if he had seen the man come in. Burroughs said that he had been busy and did not notice. Brewer checked the darkened balcony but did not see the man he had followed. Brewer and Burroughs then checked and made sure the exits had not been opened. Brewer then went back to the box office and told Julia Postal he thought the man was still in the theater and to call the police.
Julia called the police. Police broadcasts at 1:45 PM reported "Have information a suspect just went into the Texas Theater . . . Supposed to be hiding in the balcony" (17H418). When the police arrived, they were told by a "young female," probably Julia Postal, that the man was in the balcony. The police who entered the front of the theater went to the balcony. They were questioning a young man when Officers Walker, McDonald and Hutson entered the rear of the theater. Hutson counted seven theater patrons on the main level. From the record, these seven would break down as follows:
2 Two boys (half way down center section searched by Walker & McDonald while Hutson looked on)
1 Oswald (3rd row from back-center section)
1 Jack Davis (right rear section-Oswald first sat next to him)
1 Unknown person (across the aisle from Davis-Oswald left his seat next to Davis and moved to a seat next to this person; Oswald then got up and walked into the theater lobby)
1 George Applin (6 rows from back-center section)
1 John Gibson (1st seat from the back on the far right side)
Oswald bought popcorn at 1:15 PM, walked to the main floor and reportedly took a seat next to a pregnant woman. Minutes before police arrived, this woman disappeared into the balcony and was never seen again. She was not one of the seven patrons counted by Officer Hutson.
Captain Westbrook and FBI Agent Barrett came into the theater from the rear entrance minutes later. Westbrook may have been looking for "Lee Harvey Oswald"-identified from the contents of the wallet he found at the scene of Tippit's murder.
From police broadcasts, the police were looking for a suspect wearing a white shirt, white jacket, with dark brown or black hair, and hiding in the balcony. But their attention quickly focused on a man wearing a brown shirt with medium brown hair, on the main floor. When this man was approached by Officer McDonald, he allegedly hit McDonald and then tried to fire his .38 revolver. Several police officers and theater patrons heard the "snap" of a pistol trying to fire. A cartridge was later removed from the .38 and found to have an indentation on the primer. An FBI report described the firing pin as "bent." The man in the brown shirt, Harvey Oswald, was subdued by Officers Hawkins, Hutson, Walker, Carroll and Hill, and then handcuffed. Captain Westbrook ordered the officers to "get him out of here as fast as you can and don't let anybody see him." As he was taken out the front, Julia Postal heard an officer remark "We have our man on both counts." In an FBI report, we find the following:
this was the first time that she [Postal] had heard of Tippit's death, and one of the officers identified the man they arrested by calling out his name, "Oswald".… (Emphasis added. FBI report 2/29/64 by Arthur E. Carter.)
If the person who identified Oswald by name was Captain Westbrook, he could have obtained Oswald's name from identification-perhaps the Texas driver's license-in Lee Oswald's wallet found at the scene of the Tippit shooting. If someone other than Captain Westbrook identified Oswald by name, then someone in the Dallas Police had prior knowledge of Oswald. Identification of the policeman who made this statement might have aided in answering this question.
Harvey Oswald, the man wearing the "brown shirt," who probably bought a ticket from Julia Postal, bought popcorn from Butch Burroughs at 1:15 PM, sat next to Jack Davis before the main feature began at 1:20 PM, sat next to another identified patron, and then sat next to a pregnant woman (who disappeared), was brought out the front entrance and placed in a police car. En route to City Hall, Oswald kept repeating "Why am I being arrested? I know I was carrying a gun, but why else am I being arrested?" In light of the above, it was a good question to pose.
The police (Lt. Cunningham and Detective John B. Toney) did question a man in the balcony of the theater. Lt. Cunningham said "We were questioning a young man who was sitting on the stairs in the balcony when the manager told us the suspect was on the first floor." Detective Toney said "There was a young man sitting near the top of the stairs and we ascertained from manager on duty that this subject had been in the theater since about 12:05 PM." Notice that both Cunningham and Toney say they spoke to the "manager." Manager? We know from Postal's testimony that the owner of the theater, John Callahan, left for the day around 1:30 PM. The projectionist remained in the projection room during Oswald's arrest. Julia Postal remained outside at the box office. Burroughs was the only other theater employee and, according to his testimony, he "stayed at the door at the rear of the theater" (near the concession stand), "did not see any struggle" and then "remained at the concession stand" during Oswald's arrest. Burroughs never left the main level of the theater. Clearly, neither Postal, Burroughs, nor the projectionist (the only theater employees on duty) spoke to these officers either in the balcony or on the stairs in the balcony. Someone either identified himself as a theater "manager," or the officers mistook someone as the theater "manager," or these officers were lying about speaking to the "manager." The "manager" and the person whom they questioned in the balcony remain unidentified.
Oddly, and inconsistently, the police homicide report of Tippit's murder reads "suspect was later arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater at 231 W. Jefferson." Detective Stringfellow's report states "Oswald was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater." After (Harvey) Oswald's arrest Lt. E..L. Cunningham, Detective E.E. Taylor, Detective John Toney, and patrolman C.F. Bentley were directed to search all of the people in the balcony and obtain their names and addresses. Out of 24 (the number of tickets Postal said she sold) theater patrons that day, the Dallas Police provided the names of two-John Gibson and George Applin. If the names of the other 22 theater patrons were obtained, that list has disappeared. The identity of the man questioned by police in the balcony remains a mystery. He was not arrested and there is no police report, record of arrest, nor mention of any person other than Oswald. What happened to this man? What happened to the list of theater patrons?
Captain C.E. Talbert and some officers were questioning a boy in the alley while a pickup truck was sitting with the motor running a few yards away (24H242). Talbert was one of the few DPD officers at the Texas Theater who did not write a report of Oswald's arrest to Chief Curry (16 officers wrote such reports). Talbert's testimony before the Warren Commission runs for over 20 pages. At no time was he asked about his involvement at the Texas Theater or his questioning of a young man in the alley behind the theater.
Bernard Haire, owner of a hobby shop two doors from the theater, walked out the rear of his shop shortly before 2:00 PM and saw police cars backed up to Madison Street. He watched as the police escorted a man from the rear of the Texas Theater wearing a "white pullover shirt." They placed the man in a squad car and drove away. He noticed the man was very "flush" in the face as though he had been in a struggle. Haire's description of this man-"white shirt" with a "flush face"-is consistent with witness statements of Tippit's killer before, during and after the shooting. For 25 years Mr. Haire and other witnesses thought they had witnessed the arrest of Oswald behind the Texas Theater in the alley. When told Oswald was brought out the front of the theater Haire asked "Then who was the person I saw police take out the rear of the theater, put in a police car, and drive off ?"
Collins Radio and the CIA
Shortly after 2:00 PM, Mr. T. F. White observed a man sitting in a 1961 red Ford Falcon, with the engine running, in the El Chico parking lot behind his garage. This is five blocks north of the Texas Theater. As Mr. White approached the car, the driver turned and looked at him. The driver then sped off in a westerly direction on Davis Street. Mr. White, who later saw Oswald's picture on TV, said the man in the Falcon was identical to Oswald and wore a "white T-shirt." When told by the FBI that Oswald was in jail at 2:00 PM, White still maintained that the man he saw driving the red Falcon was "possibly identical" to the Oswald he had seen on TV after the assassination. This Oswald "sighting" shortly after Harvey Oswald's arrest at the Texas Theater could have been a case of mistaken identity. But Mr. White, who had been given police training, wrote down the vehicle's license plate number. The plates belonged to a blue 1957 Plymouth 4 door sedan-not a 1961 red Ford Falcon. The Plymouth belonged to Carl Mather, a long time employee of Collins Radio and close friend of J.D. Tippit. Newsman and former Dallas Mayor Wes Wise heard of the unusual Oswald sighting. Mr. Wise and fellow news reporter Jane Bartell questioned Mather about the incident over dinner. Mather was so nervous he could hardly talk and said little. In 1977 the HSCA wanted to interview Mather about this incident. He agreed, but not before he was granted immunity from prosecution by the Justice Department. Mather was interviewed by the HSCA, but most of the documents relating to that interview remain classified in the National Archives. Why?
One possible reason is Oswald's prior connection to Collins Radio and what Collins Radio actually represented. Oswald, in the company of George De Mohrenschildt, had once visited the home of retired Admiral Henry Bruton, who was an executive of Collins Radio. This was reported by the HSCA in a manuscript called "I'm A Patsy" by De Mohrenschildt. Bruton and his position with Collins is also mentioned in Edward Epstein's book Legend. Bruton had been a lawyer in Virginia before becoming a Navy intelligence officer. Bruton's specialty was electronic surveillance and this is what he was bringing to Collins Radio. In April of 1963, the Wall Street Journal announced that Collins would construct a modern radio communications system linking Laos, Thailand, and South Vietnam. On November 1, 1963, the New York Times reported that Fidel Castro had captured a large boat called the Rex which was being leased to Collins Radio at the time. The next day, one of the captured Cuban exiles aboard the Rex confessed that the boat had been used to ferry arms into Cuba and that "the CIA organized all arms shipments" (New York Times 11/3/63). According to Bill Kelly (Back Channels, Summer 1992), the Rex was the flagship of the JM/WAVE fleet, the CIA's super station in Miami. According to Kelly, Castro announced that the arms shipments were meant for an assassination attempt on top Cuban leaders. What a provocative scenario: five blocks from where Oswald was arrested we have an Oswald double in a car traced to Tippit's friend and the friend works for a CIA associated company that plays a role in the plots against Cuba and Castro.
Meanwhile, Harvey Oswald was sitting in the police station, accused of crimes he did not commit. When questioned by the Dallas Police, he said he had walked out the front of the TSBD, boarded a bus, taken a cab to North Beckley, and then gone to a movie. Harvey Oswald's statements to the Dallas Police follow and agree with witness identification of the man wearing the "brown shirt." He maintained his innocence and described himself as a "patsy" but to no avail. The Dallas Police charged him, one "Lee Harvey Oswald," with murder. Sheriff Bill Decker provided the Warren Commission (12H51) a file titled "Harvey Lee Oswald, W M 24, murder.....11/22/63 of John Fitzgerald Kennedy." At least the Sheriff's department got his name right.
The Trouble with Transcripts
As far as the authorities-Dallas Police, FBI, CIA, White House-were concerned, they had their man. Harvey Oswald was not believed when he said he was in the lunchroom at the time of the shooting. Roger Craig was ignored when he said he saw Oswald leave Dealey Plaza in a Rambler Station Wagon. Markham, Bowley and Craig, who said the shooting occurred at or before 1:10 PM, were ignored. Their statements were supported by the original police transcript ( CE 705). When CE 705 was introduced into evidence by the Warren Commission on April 22, 1964, a serious conflict arose. The transcripts showed Tippit's last attempted transmission to the dispatcher at 1:08 PM and the report of his murder, by Bowley, at 1:10 PM (the same time noted by Bowley on his watch). It was obvious that Oswald could not have walked from his rooming house (1:04 PM) to 10th and Patton by 1:08 or 1:10 PM. A solution to the problem created by this exhibit was required. The Warren Commission requested the FBI to prepare a new transcript. In July of 1964, an FBI agent allegedly listened to the original dispatch patrol car transmissions at Dallas Police Headquarters. The original transcript described police officers only by their assigned numbers. The new transcript listed the officers by number and name. But Tippit's name and number (no. 78) were deleted from the new transcript. The transmissions at 1:08 PM were now listed as having been made by police officers #55 and #488 (CE 1974). Neither the names nor police identification numbers were identified or given for those two particular officers. Numerous changes can be found by comparing the old and new transcripts. The new transcript reports the Tippit murder by Bowley at 1:19 PM, nine minutes later than in the original. In the original transcript, when Bowley is reporting the shooting to the dispatcher, an unknown person in the background said "No. 78, squad car #10" This unknown person was familiar enough with police terminology to refer to Tippit as number 78 and his car as a "squad car." The new transcript, as created by the Bureau, identified the unknown person in the background, as the "citizen" and "dispatcher." How this FBI agent was able to listen to the voice of one unknown person and divide that conversation into the citizen (Bowley) and the dispatcher has not been explained. The Commission used the items in the new transcript to certify that Oswald now had enough time to go from the rooming house to 10th and Patton and shoot Tippit.
Strange Evidence
The empty shells obtained and initialed by Officer Poe at the scene of Tippit's murder were apparently not the same shells the Warren Commission held as evidence. When the Commission's shells were shown to Poe months later, he could not find and identify the marks he remembered making. Two .38 Remington-Peters and two .38 Winchester-Western hulls were found. But only one Remington-Peters slug and three Winchester-Western slugs were removed from Tippit's body. The .38 revolver taken from Oswald had been rechambered (slightly enlarged) to accept .38 Special cartridges. When discharged through a rechambered weapon, .38 Special cartridges "bulge" in the middle and are noticeably "fatter" than cartridges fired in an unchambered revolver. The empty cartridges, found in the National Archives, appear normal in size, indicating that they were fired in an original .38 revolver-not in a rechambered revolver such as the one taken from Harvey Oswald at the Texas Theater. The revolver taken from Oswald at the Texas Theater was not the gun used to kill Tippit. The Warren Commission tells us that Oswald ordered the .38 pistol from Seaport Traders in Los Angeles, via REA Express. But they have never explained how REA Express delivered the pistol C.O.D. to P.O. Box 2915 in Dallas. Who would deliver a gun C.O.D. to a post office box? Who paid REA? How were they paid? Who signed for the delivery? These riddles have yet to be answered.
A Question of Shirts
The Warren Commission did not ask Butch Burroughs what time "Oswald" snuck into the balcony nor what time he sold "Oswald" popcorn (1:15 PM). Jack Davis was not interviewed by the Warren Commission. He could have told them Oswald (man in brown shirt) was sitting next to him before 1:20 PM. On November 22nd not a single person who saw Oswald before, during or after Tippit's shooting described him as wearing a brown shirt. Witnesses said he wore a "white T-shirt and a white or light-colored jacket." There was no mention of a brown shirt by Johnny Brewer for two weeks; by Sam Guinyard for three months; by Julia Postal until February 29, 1964. The jacket found under the Oldsmobile at the Texaco Station was made in the U.S. (the label read "created in California by Maurice Holman"); yet Marina said Oswald owned only two jackets-both purchased in Russia. Marina was never asked about this contradiction. Neither Westbrook nor FBI Agent Barrett were questioned by the Warren Commission about Oswald's driver's license.
Some witnesses identified the man in police custody as Tippit's killer, some did not. Laurel Kitrell-long time employee of the Texas Employment Commission-had the opportunity to interview both two "Lee Oswald"s in October, 1963 and recognized they were different people. She said they were "very similar in appearance, but different." Witnesses saw someone resembling Lee Oswald (white shirt, flush face, black hair) briefly before, during, and after the Tippit murder. When they saw Harvey (brown shirt, brown hair) in the police lineup, they may have mistaken him for Lee.
This is what I think happened to Tippit and Harvey Oswald. What about Lee? At 2:00 PM, while Harvey was in police custody, someone matching Lee's description was seen driving west on Davis Street in a car as seen by T. F. White. Lee was seen twelve hours later at the Lucas B & B Restaurant (two doors from Ruby's Vegas Club) with Jack Ruby. Head waitress Mary Lawrence was well acquainted with Ruby-she had known him eight years. She reported seeing Oswald and Ruby together early in the morning (1:30 AM) of November 23rd, following the assassination. Two days later she received an anonymous phone call. A male voice said "If you don't want to die, you'd better leave town."
Did Lee Oswald and Tippit know each other? Was Tippit involved? They were seen at the Dobbs House on November 20th and the Top Ten Record Store on the morning of November 22nd. Tippit was at the GLOCO Station when Oswald's (Harvey) cab crossed the Houston St. Viaduct. Tippit spoke to and was possibly shot by "Lee Oswald." License plates from the car of Tippit's close friend, Carl Mather, may have been seen on a car driven by Lee Oswald shortly after the assassination. There are either a lot of Oswald/Tippit coincidences or Tippit was somehow involved.
Who was the unidentified FBI agent who made numerous changes to the police broadcast? Did people within the Dallas Police Department participate in a cover-up of the Tippit murder? Were they aware of two "Oswalds"? Who changed the time of Tippit's murder from 1:10 PM to 1:19 PM on DPD police broadcasts? What happened to Oswald's driver's license? We know a Lee Oswald showed a Texas driver's license to Fred Moore at the Jiffy Store on Industrial Blvd on the morning of November 22nd. Dallas Police Captain Westbrook reportedly found Oswald's driver's license at the scene of the Tippit murder later that afternoon. Detective Paul Bentley, when interviewed on WFFA TV on Saturday, November 23rd, said "there was a Dallas Public Library card. He had other identification such as a driver's license and credit cards, things like that in his wallet" (credit cards for Oswald?) Why was the license not listed on police inventory reports? How did the license get from the scene of Tippit's murder to the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)? A Texas driver's license belonging to Lee Oswald turned up at the DPS the following week. Aletha Frair, and 6 employees of the DPS saw and handled Oswald's driver's license. It was dirty and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. Mrs. Lee Bozarth (employee of DPS) stated that she knew from direct personal experience there was a Texas driver's license file for Lee Harvey Oswald. The DPS file had been pulled shortly after the assassination. Who pulled Oswald's file from the DPS? What happened to this file and driver's license? Lt. E..L. Cunningham, Detective E.E. Taylor, Detective John Toney, and patrolman C.F. Bentley were directed to search all of the people in the balcony and list their names and addresses. What happened to that list? Why were none of these officers questioned about their knowledge of such a list? Why are there no police or FBI interviews of the theater patrons? Why were Lt. Cunningham and Det. Toney not asked about the man they questioned in the balcony? Why was Bernard Haire, who saw the police take a man from the rear of the theater, never interviewed by the FBI nor asked to testify before the Warren Commission or the HSCA? Why was Captain Talbert not asked about the man he questioned in the alley behind the theater? Why was neither T. F. White nor Carl Mather questioned by the Warren Commission? When finally questioned by the HSCA 15 years later, why did Carl Mather insist on being granted immunity before he testified? Why is his testimony still classified? Why do police reports state that Oswald was arrested in the balcony? Why does Sheriff Decker's file list the assailant's name as "Harvey Lee Oswald"?
Because these questions, although unanswered, have a common thread. These questions-if properly answered-could expose a government agency's creation, manipulation, and control of both Harvey and Lee Oswald. That agency is the CIA.

Spoken like a true redneck. Its what most white trash belives. You don't even know the history of Allen Dulles or what the Bay of Pigs was all about how can you even offer a credible opinion? Obviously you took the blue pill from Morpheus?lol

Spoken like a true bigot.

Don't you condescend to me. I know very well who Allen Dulles was and what the Bay of Pigs was, thank you very much.

Is it really necessary to call people names when they offer opinions that differ from yours...even blatantly asinine opinions have the right to be posted.




JFk may have been killed by LHO...but highly unlikely. A bullet from that distance at that height could not have produced the results shown on the Z film. More likely, a shot was fired from below under the street.

Too many things don't add up to just a frustrated LHO.

Joc is right...and I apologize...but I couldn't help but use the retorts you gave me from your "profile". Just what is " a whiter shade of trash" supposed to mean?

I have never even heard of Allen Dulles.

But I do know that JFK was set up. And I have some concept of the Bay of Pigs...cuban missle crisis..blockade...Russian nukes...etc.

But it is also note worthy to mention that it is possible that LHO acted alone because he hated Kennedy. I have a problem with the open Limo...but in that day and time it wasn't that big of a deal....sort of like pre-9/11...whoda thunk it? At any rate he's dead and why, who, and all that we will never truly know. Fun to think about though.

It's a joke, a parody from that Sarah Brightman song - "A Whiter Shade of Pale." I just thought it sounded funny. I'm actually only half white. (And apology accepted.)

Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK
Pure and simple although i think he might have been hired by the FBI