http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/050304_moon_snoop.html

please go to your link and post an image you feel the rover captured that best proves the apollo landing-i could see nothing in the images

It still won't be the end of it.

The images will be taken. Proof will be confirmed. And the goofball conspiracy theorists will just say that the images were faked.

So then we'll have two conspiracy theories. One that we didn't land on the moon, and one that the evidence was faked.

Sun. Nothing will disprove any of your conspiracy theories.

lets see, we got 767s did not hit the WTC or the pentagon, the moon landings are a fake, the natzis didn't have concentration camps, HIV was invented by the CIA, and FDR sent the US air force to attack the US navy in pearl harbor to "frame" the IJN ! --LOL

i'm sure there are some things covered up --but my gosh--lol

how about this one ??? the big drug companys are inventing new drugs that cost a fortune and kill people who are drawing social security !! --what a way to save $$$--LOL wack um--take all the money !! get a big payola from big-biz--lol --

GWB says social security is in trouble--and we all know how much he loves $$$--LOL

Jsf35rino, the conspiracy people's whole life must revolve around this stuff. I mean our whole history must be untrue.lol. I have said this before, must be a depressing way to live believing in this stuff.

The reactions of conspiracy theorists when a future mission to the moon, whether it be from the US or another country actually inspects and images the Apollo landing sites will be predictable and very telling.

It is standard conspiracy theorists MO to constantly raise the bar of acceptable proof with each refutation of their arguments. I fully expect and am prepared for the claims of further conspiracy when the landing sites are finally imaged.

We all know that believing in the moon landing hoax has nothing to do with science or evidence, and everything to do with ideology. I have studied the Apollo hoax theories for a while now, and am completely dumbfounded by the stubbornness that many of them exhibit even when presented with what is in my opinion almost overwhelming evidence that the missions happened exactly as history portrayed them.

From the casual person complaining that the flag couldn't be waving on the moon, to those who go further and contrary to what Dr. Van Allen himself said believe that any human would be instantly fried by the Van Allen Belt, reason and science are completely unable to budge them even an inch.

A very reasonable person said to me once:

"Although there are varying degrees of each, I have come to categorize the conspiracists into two generalized types: the Confused and the Hardcore.

The Confused are average people who have seen or heard the claims of conspiracy advocates on TV, the Internet, or from friends and associates. They usually lack the scientific knowledge or experience necessary to dispute the claims, so they begin to doubt the generally accepted story. Despite their doubts, these people tend to be open-minded and willing to listen to varying points of view.

The Hardcore, on the other hand, are a completely different type of personality. They almost always exhibit strong paranoid tendencies. For example, they commonly make negative comments about the U.S. government such as "they're a bunch of liars" or "they can't be trusted". Rather than allowing the evidence to speak for itself, they will often begin by assuming a conspiracy and then search for evidence to support that preconception. When they see something that looks suspicious they immediately accept it as proof of their belief. When someone attempts to offer an alternate explanation they dismiss it as a government lie. Any evidence that contradicts their belief is described as an attempt by the government to deceive us. They will say that anyone who doesn't believe as they do has been brainwashed or is in denial. They are usually argumentative, hostile and arrogant. "

I believe his observation is 100% accurate.

[Edited for spelling]

Twinstead, you stated that perfectly. Much better than I could. Thanks.

I agree. twinstead has stated the case perfectly.

these concepts are based on the assumption of "knowing" the truth--the classification in the above mentioned "opinion" is undeniably "orwellian"-by associating the phrases above("they're a bunch of liars" or "they can't be trusted") with irrational and hostile individuals you are shutting the door on rational intelligent debate that uses the ideas in those phrases as a basis for their opinion-

i believe you observation is 100% biased opinion

Its not biased its 100% true. I agree with him, and its quite humourus that this accualy does apply to most Conspericy Thearists (not me though he he he j/k)

~Thanato

Here's the deal, why not send a conspiracy theorist to the moon. Give em' the up close and personal view of the footprints. Or better yet, run a lie detecter test on the astronauts who walked on the moon, with a bunch of conspiracy theorist... watching all this.

I believe we walked on the moon.

It has nothing to do with KNOWING the truth. It has everything to do with objective investigation and a basic understanding of physics, engineering and astronomy. The truth is there for anybody to see.

It is those who let their ideology doubt the moon landings out-of-hand simply because the government said it happened who are the biased ones. Those who believe it happened simply because the government says it did are just as guilty.

Some people believe in conspiracies based simply on their ideology. While there certainly ARE conspiracies, Iran Contra, Watergate, etc, not everything is. In my opinion, call it biased if you wish, is that those who believe the moon landings were hoaxed, even after being presented with both the evidence and the refutations of the common hoax believer's evidence, have an agenda that goes beyond simple getting to the truth.

Don't get me wrong--there ARE conspiracies in this world and the US government, like ALL governments, doesn't always tell the truth.

IMHO, the moon hoax is not one of those.

Personally, I could believe that the photos brought back from the moon were faked. But how do you account for the chunk of moon rock they brought back with them?

I saw a documentary where I guy tried to make certain people swear on a bible that they landed on the moon. I feel no one should have to do such a thing.

People who think the lunar landings were hoaxed do not have a clue.

Besides the overwhelming evidence that we DID land on the moon, there is one piece of information that everyone seems to be forgetting:

When we landed on the moon, we were in a space race with Russia. We were watching Russia very closely, and they were watching us very closely. Had we hoaxed the whole thing, Russia would have been the first to start balking about the landings. This came just a few years after the Cuban Missile Crisis, so the Russians weren't too happy with us, and wouldn't have conceded defeat to us if they thought we faked it. Russia knows we landed there, as do the rest of us who think logically.

Another point: if it wasn't possible for us to get to the moon, then it wouldn't be possible for Russia to get to the moon either. If that was the case, both of us would have known that, and there would not have been a space race. Why would we have gotten involved in a race with Russia, and vice versa, if we thought the goal was impossible???

One other thing: In 1972 on the Dick Cavette show, Gene Cernan's little girl told the nation that her daddy promised her that he was going to write her name in the lunar dust, and it would be there forever. If the landings were faked, being an astronaut Gene Cernan would have known this... so why would he promise his little girl a thing like that if he was going on a fake mission???

You conspiracy theorists need to get a grip, and a life.

Exactly

The lunar soil and rocks collected by the Apollo missions are a compelling piece of evidence. Over 400 lbs of rocks and core samples were collected (in contrast to the unmanned Soviet missions which collected only ounces of simple surface material) from specific places, by actual geologists. Rocks that were photographed in situ were then picked up and brought back.

That material was distributed to geologists world wide, even to the Soviet Union who had lunar samples to compare them to. Geologists study rocks; the idea that they don't know the difference between a rock formed on the moon and collected from the moon and a meteor from the moon or a rock faked in a laboratory is not only insulting to geologists all over the world, but simply laughable.

And yes, in order for the landings to have been faked, the Soviet Union would certainly have had to be in on it. There is no alternative. Thousands of competent amateur astronomers as well would have had to be fooled or in on it as they tracked both visually and via communications the missions from blast off, to the lunar surface, back to splashdown.

One would think that after 30 years, there would be one, just one, deathbed confession from somebody who helped with the hoax.

It's tough sometimes coming on forums and trying to set people straight about the Apollo program. It seems that science education is taking a serious dump all over, and people are willing to believe anything anybody who calls himself an expert says, without question--especially if it fits his ideology. We are called government shills, paid disinfo agents, blind sheep, you name it. If it’s in the paranoid handbook it is thrown at us. All because we feel passionate about science and the space program and hate to see it ignorantly trashed. I wish I got paid for it!

It's worth the trouble.

funny thing i have had a few of my posts yanked because i am usually trashing NASA for being a huge burocratic ,bumbling waste of taxpayers $$$ .

and most of the time that is true . however the fact is they did make it to the moon .

another time i was wrong--was hubble --looked like another huge waste --but turned into something worthwhile afterall. so even NASA can do something right once in a while.


one day the human race will have to go into space , without any questions of why.


if for no other reason to get away from ourselves--LOL

Though I belive it's biased and separates such a large and complicated group of people into something way too simple, I do kind of like it. He's totally right about seeing something they don't like and counting it as part of a conspiracy by the Power Elite. A good example is the Lone Gunmen episode called Pilot. It's basicallly about 911 before it happens and seems to follow the popular theory that it was carried out by people in the US Gvernment. It may sound suspicious and I believe there really could be something to it especially when an actor said how the CIA gave them ideas for episodes. However it is also just as likely that they had inside information on the attacks and wanted to warn people, but instead Alex Jones counts it at the Illuminati teasing us with clues.
He also believe that they manipulated the lottery numbers to display 911. However there have been field experiments with REGs that indicate that things like this could happen all the time and could actually be caused by ourconsciousness. To base everything like that as part of a conspiracy is quite a stretch, especially when the other explanations are just as likely.


Why do you categorise all conspiracy theorists into the "I don't believe we went to the moon" category? I'm sure there's many conspiracy theorists that don't believe this. There's even one of them here on UM.

Hi, i dont know why every1 is so worked up about this. heres my view, the tape we all saw about the landing was indeed a fake (the whole flag thing in the wind did it for me) but i do think that we landed on the moon, big waste of money if not.

There was no flag waving in the wind.

Paulclitheroe7285,

Take a long rod about 6' long, attach another rod about 3' long to the top of it so that it sticks out horizontally, and then attach a piece of cloth to the horizontal rod. Now go into a completely enclosed room so you don't get any wind and shake the rod around. What you will see is a "flag flapping in the wind" when there is no wind. While the atmosphere does play a small role in that example, the majority of this effect is caused by inertia. The top edge of the flag is moving with the rod it is attached to, while the bottom edge is lagging behind due to inertia. The flag movement on the moon is just the response from the flag being moved around.

I can't believe people expect that flag to just remain stiff as a board, just because there is no atmosphere on the moon....

And you think we did land on the moon, but we faked the tape of it???? Do you realize how much sense that does NOT make? If we spent all that money going to the moon, WHY would we need to fake the video??? We were there!

Would you go on a vacation to the Grand Canyon, but then fake a tape of your vacation???

Gee whiz...

Because you spent the entire vacation there completely naked!:huh: Oh my God what aren't they telling us? Space travel is perfectly safe, you can go there completely naked!

Paulclitheroe7285, please sir, with all due respect, learn about the missions. Here is an excellent explanation about the 'fluttering flag'.

http://www.clavius.org/envflutter.html

Science teachers nation wide are counting on you to break the cycle of ignorance.

Now, I'm not saying this is what I belive, but some points were raised:

1. If there's no wind on the moon, why did the flag flutter?
2. If such a heavy machine landed, why did nothing move?
3. Why were shadows cast from the astronauts?

Again, not necessarily what I belive, but still...

Man has been to the moon,no doubt ! The flag waving is due to the tension of the pole,when it is put in the ground and released it's going to move around. as far as nothing moved hmm foot prints.

What i think happened was that they ie NASA took thousands of pics, hundreds of feet of footage, but when that footage was looked at they had to deleat so much from public view that they had to explain why SO LITTLE FOOTAG. So to counter never being to the moon the had to create footage that they could not release to the public.

So for lack of an explanation of lack of footage they created "some of it here on earth" It's a fact the moon was touched by man, but what footage is real and what is not....

man has been to the moon but the question is why is NASA holding back footage and pics??? What could possible be in space or moons or planets that would give NASA or any other space agencie reason to hold back photos? The big question is why hold or classifie pics of the moon or mars or anyother planetary object secret!!!! There should be NO reason we should not have full discloser,UNLESS they hold back info that could alter what we believe.

Just my pesonal thoughts thx

Your ideas sound logical. I agree that man probably landed on the moon.

That footage thing is true. I think the government holds so much back from us. Maybe there is something on the moon they don't want us to find...

You should try to use the search option to find past threads. Most of them are pretty intresting and more than enough valid reasoning to conclude that we did land on the moon. Also, there's a program on National Geographic dealing with this, it explained everything and was very good. Try to look out for it.

Will do!

I'm kind of new to this forum, so I don't know what is talked about often!

What I find Soo hard to believe is that we are not showen all the pics and footage.... Why? is there a carwash on the moon? Why are they holding back pic ect if it;s just rocks mud ice what ever why hold back,WHAT do they Hmmm them again ie NASA have to hide... If it's just rocks and "stuff".

Darksinister this is not a thread that debunks the moon landing. I truley believe man has been on the moon. NO DOUBT

I think that this thread might move to the reasons why pic, footage, documantation,testomonie ect Is classified. Why is a pic classified at ALL !!! if it's a dead moon, planet what ever why is it cassified !!!!

What is it, exactly, that is classified?

although "if" the soviets were in on it they would have no problem in being the deciding factor for the majority of the global population-no?


of course there is a small group of elite that control the financing that is in on it-to think that man is uncapable of being this clever is the real hoax--how many people make it to their deathbed without realizing that they have children and grandchildren that actively dependant on the hoax and the knowledge of it-imo the secret of the hoax is in itself a tool of blackmail that is probably being abused by someone who is in a position to abuse it

your faith lies in the honesty of man and 400lb of rock that man has the capacity to fake as there are no controls to compare it to-tsk tsk-you proclaim a passion for science yet you are entertained by the thought of a 47 story bldg made of concrete and steel collapsing due to fire and now you want to stand at the podium and make a speech about how "its tough" and "worth the trouble" - "setting people straight"--well i have news for you --men lie and bldgs dont collapse due to fire

the moon there in the sky. Yes!
but did we go there? Coyote know for sure.

ppl temorarely insane if they think moon is made of cheeze!!!
So, USA went to moon to prove em wrong! Yes!
Coyote knew it all along

But some people still thnk its cheeze.
for them, I say: "WE WENT TO THE MOON!"
ppl r so arrogant!

Yes, men lie. Even people who supposedly believe in conspiracy theories. So what? The point here is not to doubt something because people lie, therefore they must be lying now. The point is evidence and unbiased investigation. Some people can do it, some people can't. Nothing more frustrating than having somebody who CAN'T spouting how right they are and accusing those who disagree of being stupid.

And as far as buildings collapsing due to fire, whom am I to believe, the dozens of structural engineers I know personally, and personally know they have NO stake in the government, or you, some ideologically bent denizen on a web forum providing links to similarly ideologically bent fringe sites?

I mean think about it. If you had some symptoms of a disease, and you had the choice of listening to a room full of doctors discussing what could be wrong with you, or a room full of plumbers, whom would you give more credence to? What you are telling me in effect is that all the doctors are either lying or plotting against you, and the plumbers are the only people who REALLY know what is wrong with you.

wow poke chop, never would have thought of that (no sarcasm intented), your probably right if the whole flag was moving but it was just the actually material moving (hopefully) like it was blowing, i may have it wrong, but most people get things wrong all the time *cough* george bush *cough*

any ways i shall dissapear down the back passage like a phantom

bye

Now, normally I don't take sides with things like this, but some theorys people have come up with for conspiracys are pretty laughable.

I belive man landed on the moon! There's no REAL proof that he didn't!

However, not all conspiracys are entirely made up. Some must have SOME truth in them....