Ok, let me clarfiy on this. The bottom line is, if you don't ask, you don't receive. So, if my comment about athiests being ingrates has been taken the wrong way, I'm going to explain it. I'm not talking about children OR adults dying or starving in Africa or in any other part of the world. I'm not talking about 8 year old kids that die of Cancer, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Technically, I'm not talking about children at all. I'm giving the logical reason behind why an adult who has decided to turn athiest, who DOES know the difference, says 'but why doesn't God help me if He exists'. Like I said, if someone doesn't ask, why would they get help?

The other part of the story is this. People, every single human being who has ever now, or ever will exist (excpt a rare few, which if you don't believe in the religion, won't accept anyway) dies. When and why, is unknown, and it's sad when it happens, but I can't understand the blaming God (especially if you don't believe in God to begin with) for this. I believe in reincarnation (alot don't, most Christian's don't, which is why I'm not really 'Christian') and the only reasoning I can come up with is that the souls are needed to be born again.

You can agree or disagree but this is the way I see it.

Miss Starchild, if I may ask one question...

Why should we worship god in the first place, if he's only willing to help those that do? Surely that is, in fact, the complete opposite of a Christian ideal? There are many christian organisations set up to help people all around the world, regardless of where they come from, or what they believe...why is your god incapable of this same compassion?

I'm not saying you should believe. But instead of looking at all the people you say God doesn't help, why not look at the ones He DOES. Even a person who has been an athiest their entire life, and then asks God for help, may recieve it. What would it hurt to ask? Not that I'm asking eanyone here to do that, but all I'm saying is, people are judging a religion that they aren't giving a chance to. And that's fine, you can reject it, it's up to you, but not everyone feels the same way.

Ask yourself this. If you had a child who didn't just not acknowledge your existence, but actually verbally did everything in their power to belittle you, would you help them? I doubt it. That is how God no doubt sees it. However, if that child changed, would you accept them back after all they had done against you? Most parents won't, but God, if you want to talk bout compasion, will. Even after death people get a chance, (though there may be punishments in between that. Most parents punish their child when they do something wron, right? Hell may be severe, but not everyone goes to hell, most start out in Sheol, hell is for grievious sins, like murder. If you can agree to life imprisonment, or the death penalty for murder, why not hell?) which is why there is reincarnation. But again not everyone believes that.

Yes. That's part of being a parent...and more importantly, the responsibility you accept when you create something.

This is intriguing. Presumably we can extend this theory to explain why I haven't been receiving as many christmas pressies as I'd like. How I regret not believing in Father Christmas.

i think they way you do starchild and i totaly agree if you don't ask you will not get.

This is not a spin off of the thread Burnside wisely closed is it, because you're fighting the same topic.

I don't believe God helps people, only yourself can help. You don't ask God, you use God as a tool to direct your energy to ask yourself. The power within yourself is far greater than any mere God could harness. Too many excuses have been made to try and cover up all the bad things God could have prevented that the only lesson that has been taught is that life is pain. Why does that happen? The ones he does "help" are the ones who helped themselves, mostly in ignorance. Infact, there are billions more he has not helped. Again, whats his excuse for not helping the many, and what about the needs of the many outweighing those of the few?

I stopped asking for help and believing when I asked for help 1...2...3....77...100... times ago. My faith resides within myself.

...I can already see where this thread is going.

Okay... Thank God I read the Bible...

God expects us to keep asking Him to help us. He wants us to keep praying and to keep talking to Him, which is why he answers our prayers the more we pray. Trust me, life was H-E- double hockey-sticks before I started praying more often, and now, well, I'm just gonna say this with a single emoticon-





Oh, and he's willing to help us no matter what we believe in. I used to be entirely skeptical on the "God Factor" as I used to call it, but trust me, He tries to get our attention and He helps us, no matter what, cuz He never abandons his children.

Then why did the tsunami and all that occur? He's testing our faith.

You missed out so badly, man!

Ahh, the ol' testing faith by killing a couple hundred thousand people brutally thing. What a wonderful lord.

Then why has he disregarded billions of innocent, faith seeking people or even people of the faith? I do believe your praying is very good for you because it is peaceful and is a way to control emotions. With all this constant prayer he wants, it sounds like hes a power hungry dictator.

HAHA!

I cant believe how funny and hilarious this world is....

I want to get ubducted from planet earth now !

Religion, fairys.. gods.. santa clause...

argh the insanity!

I cannot believe what people are saying... Im really sorry, im finding religion more hilarious by the day

great forums

People, people....one thread locked, let's not make it two Careful how we phrase it all, eh?

Ever had a really good day that you just can't explain why?

Even if you are an aetheist and a serious skeptic, just try and read the Bible for once. It'll tell ya.

Praying is what made my life turn from suicidal and emo to "Holy, shiznets! Life is so awesome!"

Uh huh. I hardly see how that would be because of divine intervention.

Nope. My good days are when I accomplish something, based on logic. Besides, you don't believe those Christians safe on a hill were spared by a divine hand when the waters didnt even reach them, do you?

Last time I tried reading the bible I was instantly disgusted by the attractive wording that is confusing yet enticing to most. I've prayed plenty of times before -- all for a noble cause, and nothings happened. When I started believing in the Norse Pantheon more than God, very good things have happened in my life. I've not only gotten wisdom, but I've gotten a real peice of mind. Is that what you get with God?

I really need to stop looking at religious threads...

ok have nice discussions people...


Take me to ur leader

im gonna go watch derek on most haunted live get possesed

You mean where God parted the water so the Israelites could safely pass through? Hell, yeah!

Emo/suicidal + praying= WAHOO!!! I LOVE MY LIFE!!! AND I ALSO LOVE [name taken out-people know people ]

Yeah, on those days I usually say a little "Thank the gods and fates" dealy and continue enjoying the day.

In all honesty, a good or a bad day just happen, with no rhyme or reason. Some people wanna think God did it, others think the Fates did.

I'm more inclined to believe that the Fates did then God. *shugs* that's just me. And I don't expect anyone else to think the same.

Okay, just hear me out for a sec.

We've all had those days where your life just got flushed down the toilet and clogged up the drain, right? God's that little plunger that brings you out again.

Sorry about the immature analogy there, but it's better then the other one...

It's okay Burny! I respect ya!

Not always. You've heard of pot, morphine, cocaine, and advil, correct? Those can be a plunger for some people to, even die hard christians.

What do you believe Fate is?

"Fate is a cruel, cruel entity. It grants your desires and respects your beliefs, but then it turns against you and razes yoru memories. It fills your body with will, then sucks it out and leaves you to wonder in a scragging netherworld. Fate will help you through your troubles, but then it will fancy a feast and eat away at your soul"- Abyss, the short story I wrote.

"Fate is your best friend. It let me ride this unicycle I'm on right now."- Albert Einstein.

"Shiva, Fate, Amen-Ra, all names for God."- Mark Twain

When i was an avid, church-going Christain, i had about 5 years of utter hell. I lived in over 5 places a year, eating bread and drinking water. It was awful.

I lost my faith in god then, and at that time my life immediately picked up, and now it's fantastic. Because i made it so, instead of relying on help from something that was obviously either not there or not listening.

So don't go telling me that god makes life great, i know personally that it doesn't do any good to have faith.

Those are the faulty plungers, but God never breaks and will always get you out.

Can we get off the toilet subject?! I just finished eating a bit ago! [Then why did you use that analogy in the beginning, Kong? {Hell, I don't know!}]

I wonder why I even bother posting...two threads in a row now...

Sera: Hey guys, I'm gonna try and make a little sense here...if you tread carefully, and keep your emotions in check, you might just have an interesting discussion here

Someone else: God is great! You just don't know because you've never bothered!

Sera: Uh...guys?

Another person: Bah! I did try that, but now I've found my own, new god! My god is better than your god!

Sera: ...guys?

Yet another person: Your god is evil and cruel! My god says so!

Sera: *goes to play some chess*


Does anyone else see that same pattern? Would it hurt at all to listen to me, even just a little? Threads would last so, so much longer.

Either two things-

1) He was testing you. Yeah, so why would he do this... yada yada yada... Hey, in the Bible read the book of Job (pronounced Jobe), and it'll tell you why. Hope we can stay on good terms

2) Satan, after you stopped your faith in God, made your life better, seeming like no faith is good.

3) [Yes, I did say that there was only two reasons] Your ancestors did something that made God P'Oed and he cursed your family. For example, in the Bible, Moses draws water from a rock, but he does it in front of the Isrealites in such a way that they think he was the one who drew out the water, not God. The result? Wife gets leprosy, Moses not allowed to enter the Promised Land, and their family is cursed (yes, Moses did have children).

Hey, I'm not like that! I respect your beliefs... Sorry if it doesn't seem like that...

*sits down and tries to beat Sera in chess*

*fails miserably*

How bout one more round?

Uh-oh sorry if I sound insulting there... Just trying to make a point...
If ya want the rest of the story can be read in my blog.

Your "point", by my point of veiw, could just as easily be applied to god A quick question though...



That Satan sounds like a nice guy thanks man, you made a worshipper out of me

*holds up cross* CONVERT!!! COME BACK TO THE LIGHT!!!

I've actually had people ask if I worship the devil, cuz I where black and red alot.

Oh, and if you re-read it, you'll see that what I'm trying to say is that Fate is God.

Perhaps you missed me point...why would you expect someone to find any goodness in a being that you openly admit tortures people, and subjects them to endless cruelty, as a means of "testing" them...and on the same hand ask us to reject as evil a being that you credit for making a man's life better?

How limited they were in thier knowledge of the Fates.

And I mean the Fates not just "fate"

Three of them. Past Present and Future. Three folds, Trinityof the Goddess... Maiden Mother and Crone.

The sister Fates weave your life line, watch it grow... place obsticals on it for you to overcome, as well as happy times, then when you're time has come, snip it. They cut your life line, and you go off to to where the gods wish you.

*shakes head*

Okay... Let me review some points here...

Satan is making your life look good, but he's just trying to lure you away from God

He was testing you. Yeah, so why would he do this... yada yada yada... Hey, in the Bible read the book of Job (pronounced Jobe), and it'll tell you why. Hope we can stay on good terms

Ancestors did something that made God P'Oed and he cursed your family. For example, in the Bible, Moses draws water from a rock, but he does it in front of the Isrealites in such a way that they think he was the one who drew out the water, not God. The result? Wife gets leprosy, Moses not allowed to enter the Promised Land, and their family is cursed (yes, Moses did have children).

Why would I worship him, then, if he was so terrible?!

Uh huh. I hardly see how that would be because of divine intervention.
Okay, just hear me out for a sec.
We've all had those days where your life just got flushed down the toilet and clogged up the drain, right? God's that little plunger that brings you out again.
Sorry about the immature analogy there, but it's better then the other one...
It's okay Burny! I respect ya!
Not always. You've heard of pot, morphine, cocaine, and advil, correct? Those can be a plunger for some people to, even die hard christians.
Those are the faulty plungers, but God never breaks and will always get you out.
Can we get off the toilet subject?! I just finished eating a bit ago! [Then why did you use that analogy in the beginning, Kong? {Hell, I don't know!}]

God just wants to show us to believe in him, and its okay if you don't think he's real. I'll say a little prayer for ya so God knows that you're all okay. Remember when he killed all the Egyptians? They believed in Hoth, Amen-Ra, Osirus, Isis, and all their little fake gods, and one of the main reasons he did this is to show them that He was the one true God. Exodus 7:5- When I show the Egyptians my power and force them to let the Israelites go, they will realize that I am the Lord.

Ooooh those fates!

Yes, I have heard of them. More then often; in my spare moments of researching psychology (yes, I do have a life out of school ). And, I saw you put 'gods.' What gods might these be, then? Zeus, Hermes, Poseidon, Dionsysus, Aphrodite and Hades? Cuz the Fates were most prominently worshipped in that time frame.

I don't worship the fates.

I do worship Goddess... though for me, she is in the form of Bast.

Hey, I'm feline.. ;P

Is she pretty?!

Faith and hard work are an unstoppable force. I heard this saying on Carnivale which they say is an old Russian saying, it goes "Pray to God, Row for the Shore". I do believe that faith is an extremely strong motivator that when coupled with ability brings unparralled results. Faith brings around extreme levels of bravery and strength. Where one man may break down infront of overwhelming odds, another man, a faithful one at that may overcome it because they believe in a higher purpose/power.

It made my life turn from suicidal and emo to happy and all-heart.

Like any god, inclueding your own... it depends on the artist's representation of the deity.



But if you open google and type in "Bast + Egyptian Goddess" and look at the images, you'll get the idea. She's either a Human Female with a feline head (as per norm for Egyptian gods to have human body and animal heads) and she's also depicted as a Holy Cat.

Good going DaKong

Peronally i belive that sometimes God (or whatever higher power) helps by not helping at all. Sometimes ppl have lessons to be learned by situations or the situation helps others learn. I think there is a reason for everything that happens and we my not know why till much later or not till the end of this earthly visit here. Some experiences are fated but there are many paths of fate. So therefore every action or decision we make leads us to a different fate. God doesn't intervene because we must figure out some things on our own for our growth. Blessings, Jo

Ok, someone asked why should you pray. There is a reason for prayers, it's for God, but it also has a purpose. For every 3 Hail Mary's said, a soul gets out of Sheol (pergatory). Yes, a Christian prayer, because before that, no one was going anywhere unless God said so.

Prayers go up in baskets like flowers to a certain area in Heaven carried by angels, to a room of which Michael has keys to. These prayers are counted, the more prayers, the more people get released. Even angels pray for their souls, in Sheol AND hell. And no, that's not even a Christian belief, it's written in yet another excluded book of yet another person who saw Heaven in space.

And, instead of judging God's means of testing faith, why not look at what happens in the end. Sentences don't last forever. However, if people don't pray, people/fallen angels don't get released. Yes, even fallen angels have a chance of redemption.

This significance of the first and second paragraph here is that the first was said by a woman who saw Mary years ago. The second came from an excluded millenia old text (no, not Enoch), and neither coincided nor knew about the other.

And cuz your display is a cougar... Wow! *starts bowing down* SilverCougar you're a goddess!

Hi all

I think god/dess does help people, but most of the time they just dont see it.

I just did a thread about this that you can find here Angelic or Divine intervention, or luck?

All the best
Faeden

I am no such thing!


However I do except sacrifices of chocolate bunnies on Ostra

This God seems to test a lot of things, yet hes all knowing so he should already know the answer to the tests...

I guess he * TESTED * if 100,000+ kids could swim on the 26th of december 2004...

These things were foretold to happen. That was not a test. Death, however, like I said, is inevitable, and if you believe that death is the end, then I can understand why you have a problem with it. God doesn't see it that way. They still exist, and will return in their own good time.

Well, that is what the other people were talking about. They clearly asked a question like this: "Why would god save him, but not the millions of children starving in Africa?"



Uhh.. no... I dont know about you, but I help myself out of the drain...



OR God doesnt exist, Satan doesnt exist, and his lack of faith just made his life for whatever reason. Maybe he believed that everything would be alright no matter what he does cuz theres someone watching out for him, and when he lost that belief, he decided to strive to make his life good, because otherwise, it could be bad.

You're conveniently trying to find a way to explain it which doesnt include thinking "maybe neither exist"



And you think thats fair? Others suffering because of something someone else did?



So? If god is an evil being, I commend Satan.



Why does he need to test anything when hes supposed to know everything already?



Well, lot of good that'll do to them now that they're dead. Hurrah! Praise the lord! He killed nonbelievers!


Btw, you say stuff like "all their little fake gods" and then wonder why people think you're being insulting...







Even if death isnt the end, they still suffered, as do their parents. Also, I doubt many of them were christian... so I suppose they're going to hell for some duration, because they're nonbelievers?

You are entirely entitled to your beliefs Stellar.