Had a funny thought the other day, what if God was Satan and Satan was God?
It makes sense when you think about it. For example; when was their ever a war in the name of Satan? Never. How many wars have been fought and how many people died in the name of God? Thousands.

It all comes down to people in the end. Some people are just jerks. In fact some people are such jerks that when they had control over europe, NOTHING HAPPENED FOR ONE THOUSAND YEARS! The catholic church was made by the government as a political tool to gain power, but in the end it was the government that ended up under the churches rule. When the church had power they preached everything was well and good and then someone came along and said "Hey the sun doesn't revolve around the earth... the earth revolves around the sun."

Their reply was... "HERETIC!! KILL HIM!! KILL THE HERETIC!!!"

And thats why people are jerks...


Edited: Watch your language, this is your only warning.
BurnSide

That is one thought.

But it's not new that religion is used for political power look at George Washington He was a deist but he was not stupid he prayed to god for the moral of his soldiers. But any way a good leader knows to play on peoples weaknesses = religion. How could a christian vote against Bush if he is for God?

However I doubt that satan could be God or I dont even think satan exist. I believe God is both.




LANGUAGE.

if satan would be god..........

then earth would be hell.........


i would never exist by then

My theory goes along a similar vein - if we assume that the bible is, indeed, true (I don't believe it is, but we'll ignore that for the purpose of this example), then we are forced to draw the conclusion, from his various actions throughout, that god is the most savage representative of evil that history has ever known.

Satan, the villain character, by comparrison can go on record as never having murdered, drowned, or maimed anyone. If we're to assume the two are opposing forces, then it seems to me fairly obvious that Satan is, in fact, the good guy.

It all comes from the fact that religion is there as a means of control. Just as you say, the church spent nearly a millenia using religion as a means to keep people downtrodden...if they believe that they will recieve paradise at the end of their toils, then they are far more likely to keep working and slaving, while the people at the top of the social ladder stay fat and rich.

The fact that Satan, or Lucifer if you prefer, was actually cast out of paradise altogether for no greater crime than an attempt at bettering himself is the ultimate metaphor for this..."step out of line, and you won't go to heaven."

Right, but is it better to reign in hell then serve in heaven? Be yourself in a world of wrong, or be a follower in the embrace of happiness? Tough Choice.

In today's modern world, I would interpret Satan's rebellion as a very noble act.

I don't think God made it very fair to the angels, but for mankind I would think things are pretty easy. Repent, say you're human and a sinner, and you get in even with your free will. Although, angels are made a lot differently then humans... supposedly

I'm getting tired of editing posts for language. Do not curse or swear, there is no need for it. I wont be issuing another warning.

Hi all

I posted my thoughts and opinions on Satan here The Birth of Satan

All the best
Faeden

If Yahweh were Beelzebub... That's like saying Armaggedon is tomorrow... Really freaky and would drive me insane... But then I'd shrug and say "What the heck?"... But still... That would be... Scary...

Eh hehehehe... Read Apocalypse (Revelation)... Trust me; that dude needs a friend in life...

Satan good guy?!

Just answer this: If he's the good guy, how cme there isn't a "Sadist's Bible" or anything like that? It's just... Really disturbing...

Anywayz God's made my life awesome ever since I started believeing

and what if religion is really science and science is really religion?!?!?!? oh dear me! Where's the point? I'm worshiping Satan's son who's also named Jesus? If Satan is really the guy that I'm worshiping right now, then i'm going to hell, and it's my own fault for not realizing it.

just my opinion...

Wow now I'm freaked out....
<.<
>.>

I think I need a hug...

Butcha gotta remember; who sent Jesus? And who is He then?
P.S. 400th post! Wahoo!

we are all entitled to our own humble opinion...........we should not blame God for our society right now..........people tend to do their own stuff........and that's free will........sometimes or rather most of the times God is the receiving end.........

i believe in my heart that God is true.....i will also pray for all of us around here.........

someday............i know HE will prove HIs existence.......

Not a ment to be a flamitory comment, but I'm curious...

What if God never does show his existance?

Patience Burnside. Not everyone could read your last warning.


Anyway, for me, God and the Devil are two separate (not related) identity.
There is really a battle between good and evil. Don't be deceived.

Nope. Satan works for God, tempting and accusing you and every other mortal soul that has free will, i.e. humans, as a test of that free will. Fallen as he is. ALL angels, fallen or Holy work for and are subservient to GOD. There is a purpose for evil.

Again, if you refer to the bible, I imagine god seems far more the sadist than Satan does

However, there is actually a Satanist's bible...although the Satanist religion doesn't actually believe in Satan (that would make them Christians). They're actuall athiests...they merely choose Satan as their poster boy, because they believe much the same thing I do...that the Satan character is portrayed as having tried to fight the good fight against an oppressive and tyranical regime, and therefore respresents...I'm not sure how they veiw it exactly...perhaps anti-authoritarianism

That was thing I always thought was kinda odd about people who claimed were 'satanists'. They would always claim they did'nt believe in god. So if you are a 'satanist' you are accepting the ideology of satan, the christian ideology of it, so really you are acknowledging there is a god, as you 'worship' the opposite 'force'. This is why I get confused about the whole religion thing, it's full of contradictions. The Satanic Bible actually teaches the so called 'worship' of the self, that you are an individual and life is basically survival of the fittest. I have been reading this thread with interest. It always brings a smile to my face that no matter what theories you put forward, the believers always have an answer for it. I am not pointing at anyone here, this is an observation from a lot of the threads in this section.

Hoagy

Here is something for you to read.
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
You might be more right than you think.

He created Satan, who is evil... that's most likely what it meant.

and think of it this way, if God was Satan, then that means taht God is a fallen angel, and that Satan created everything, including me. So that means, that God would be the evil one who's really satan, who is a fallen angel, and Satan is the good one, who's really God, who created everything... either way, I'm worshiping the guy who created everything, and His son, Jesus Christ.

which kinda goes to show just how confusing it can all get....

it all goes to show how confusing it can get when you ask a stupid question like that!

to which question were you referring?

the original, "What if God were Satan, and Satan were God?"

I really don't understand the point in asking when one created all, and the other was created by one... they aren't exactly oppisites, and the definition of the person stays the same no matter what label you give them... one will always be God, and one will always be Satan, no matter if Satan is God or not. It's really a pointless question.

I already answered this. It as been written. End of story.

That was quite a good read, Faeden.
I enjoyed your presentation and intepretation.
§

Jesus Freak, are you saying to avoid any confusion at all is to avoid questioning your faith?
What are you going to tell people that want answers despite the abundance of confusion they will have to encounter just to acquire that knowledge?
Your way of thinking here really suggests discouragement to question, because of the disadvantage of 'confusion', as you say.
§
The Bible is very contradicting as many of you have pointed out already, and that there is no clear answer as to disclose which side God actually is on, and which entities he has mutual agreements or relationships with.
In Genesis, it describes of the world's renewal and how God formed man on the sixth day - though he had not created woman as of yet.
From Adam he split into two, causing man and woman.
Is Adam resembling the image of God because God, was split into two, thus resulting in the two seperate forms of God.. And Satan..?
Just a thought.
Didn't mean to misinsult any Christian out there. ¤

Oh there are clear and simple answers if people bothered to look.

Pitiful.
Clear and simple answers? Where? I've used several thousand shovels trying to dig up the truth out of the Bible, but what was I doing? - I was digging in a hole that was already there.

Keep digging, you haven't looked yet. Try looking OUTSIDE the cut to pieces Bible. You'll be amazed at what you'll find. It's not called 'The secrets of the keys of Enoch' for nothing.

I never said that i avoid confusion by not questioning my faith... i love having my faith tested, because it always comes back to me, and shows me how strong it is. It was just, in my opinion, a dumb question of labels. If a rose we called by any other name, would it still smell like a rose? If God was Satan, would He still have made the earth, and had a son named Jesus, who died for our sins?

and most of the contradictions in the bible come from taking something from the old testament and something else from the new, such as an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth (which was in the old testament) but Jesus preached love. Jesus came with a new set of rules for his followers. The old testament rules become obsolete (some will argue that).

Though I thought the only dumb question was to not ask at all?
So surely nobody has the right to assess someone's elses question if it should be asked?

While we're on the subject....why?

Why would an all knowing god make rules in the first place that he new would become obsolete, and that he knew simply weren't going to work? Why waste so many countless lives, instead of just skipping ahead to the new testament rules in the first place?

I still maintain...I don't think Jesus had anything whatsoever to do with god. It's like compairing Ghandi to Stalin

and that he knew simply weren't going to work?
He knew it's not gonna work so He can put Jesus on the New Testament.

So...when he deliberately created man...he created them in a fashion that he knew would lead not only to him having to brutally murder millions of them...but then have to see his own son murdered just to get his own backwards sense of order imposed?

I think I liked the idea of God making a mistake more Makes him sound much less twisted.

Doesn't matter if He murdered His own Son.
He could sent Him back anytime He wants.

But why do it in the first place? Why put his son through that at all if he could have prevented it? If you choose to believe god is all knowing, then surely you must accept that he knew absolutely everything mankind was going to do, before he even decided to create us.

Why create a scenario that he knew was going to lead to failure in the first place?

Not to offend anyone here... but the bible was written by a bunch of guys who spent their lives being "brainwashed" by the concept of God and Christianity. There is no chapter written by "John the Scientist" or "Abraham the Sceptic"... it's all bologne (IMHO).

They HAD to create a polar opposite to God (Good), so they came up with the Devil (Evil).

Does anyone else notice the similarities here?





"Has everyone been taking crazy pills?!? Le Trigre? Magnum? They are all the same look!!"

That excuse is getting old. Just because something is written doesnt mean that its the absolute truth. There are many things written, some of which are even contradictory to your belief, but we dont go around saying your belief is wrong because "it has been written."

Right like this one.

Luke 19:26-27(KJV)
26: For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Thank you Zandore. I stand corrected...he is a lot like his dad

Stand corrected on what?

Jesus came to this earth to do his Fathers will he could of came down from that cross if he wanted to but he chose to die for our sins so he could Glorify his Father through Jesus Christ

God is the good God he doesnt want people in hell that is our chioce if we believe in his Son Jesus died on that cross for every ones sin God bless you all

Thank You Blaze7,but I don't really whant to be blessed by some so called God,Who sits back and watches his so called "children" suffer?!Now tell me which parent would do that?Look around you and see all the suffering on this planet!
Now if God does exist ,which I very much doubt,then he must be Satan as well cause there is good and evil in every one.Now how can the church stand up and say "Jesus died to save Your souls".Well no one asked me at the time he didn't have to do it for me.God must be very selfish if he sacrifices his own son just because he wanted people to belive that he exists and why is there so much suffering to this day?Is it because God is still trying to prove that he exists?Well it's taking a long time to convince us all then.

This is just pathetic.
In summary it reads:
*God wanted men to murder Jesus
*Jesus has equivalent power than that of God
*Jesus sacrificed himself for God
*Jesus prioritised Glorifying God higher than any other priority.
*God is good
*God doesn't want people to go to hell
*God wants people to believe in Jesus or him.

What such distorted beliefs..

What is it you consider pathetic? The things you listed?
Well...
*God wanted men to murder Jesus
I don't think God wanted men to murder Jesus, but he knew it would happen... Jesus did in fact come to die for us... That is how we escape sin...
*Jesus has equivalent power than that of God
Hmm...
Well Jesus is God the son...
*Jesus prioritised Glorifying God higher than any other priority.
This is true... Whats wrong with that?
*God is good
Again true...
*God doesn't want people to go to hell
Again, what is wrong with that?
Heres a little hypothetical for you... If you knew hell was real would you want anyone to go there?
*God wants people to believe in Jesus or him.
Sure he does... What is the pathetic part of that?


LBD

I second that!

If christians really followed the teachings of Christ the world would be a much better place. Problem is they follow the teachings until it's "convenient" to disobey them, and why not? You can always ask for forgiveness. People are B*tches.

haha... very true zaus... i wish more christians would act even half like christians should... i'm not saying i'm perfect... everyone makes mistakes, but you're right, there are a lot of christians who don't play the role. and you're also right in saying the world would be better if those people actually acted like christians, the world would be much more peaceful... and i can think of a certain war that would not be happening right now if a certain christian was playing his part.

Yes this is true... And it is sad...

LBD

Yes, but a world following God's commands and rules would be a perfect world, right? And a perfect world to me totally erases the opportunity to suffer and learn from all errors in life and to get through the hardships in life that don't include human intentions...

me thinks,.?

well... we have free will... that's what keeps that from happening hailo.