Do animals beside human beings pray or believe there is one super intelligence in this universe.

If they don't have this thinking, will they go to hell or heaven when they die?

Where will they go

I dont think animals have the brain capacity, or atleast the interest, to believe in a type of god. Also, Ive never witnessed an animal praying before..

I suppose they would go to heavon though, seeing as they are Gods creations (if there is indeed a God).

This one we covered at my sunday school a long time ago.
apparently animals don't have souls.
So when they die thats it.
and because they have no souls they have nothing to pray for.

Monkeys and apes dont. And if they dont, then sure as hell no other animal does. They dont understand the concept, its far too complex.

Elephants have instinctive burial rituals, but thats as far as it goes.

What about dolphins? They can blow bubble rings through their air holes.

so is it only the brain capacity that gets us into heaven then? If we had'nt have evolved, would that mean we are condemned to purgatory? Does the same also apply to plants? what about single cell creatures?there is that essential spark, the essence in all animated thinking beings, when we die, that gets absorbed by what surrounds us. This is where I try and steer away from religious discussion, because the rules get bent for this or that, which is why I could'nt believe or have faith in something that vague.

just my thoughts.

Hoagy

Are you an animal to know whether they can pray or have a concept of what is God, No. The only reason we say they are dumb and un-advance is because we make the rules about what is intelligence and what is advancement.

If they don't need to pray to God or Godess.Yet still go to heaven.

Then we human beings should not or don't need to prays.Because we can go to heaven too Praying must be the extra.In fact we don't need to pray.

U get my point of posting this post.


Have u ever heard of at one year at a certain days.There is a case of statue of elephant which can drink milk? And scientist bring back the whole statue of the elephant from the temple of indian to examine but find no trick?

well the animals did not eat of the fruit so they did not get punished, but the conundrum is if they did not get punished then why are the animals not immortal.

odd.

marduk

Animals have no soul how do you know of this can you prove this to me, can you quote the Bible where this is written?

Animal from Latin animale, neuter of animalis, living, from anima, soul.

Animals are souls with irrational physical bodies!

Humanoids are souls with rational physical bodies!

Both irrational and rational physical bodies are the habitat of souls.

Irrational souls are in contact with God through their instinct.

Rational souls are in contact with God through their intuition.

The great majority of intellectual animals (souls) lost contact with their Inner God.

Animals don't have souls.....

But of course... this is my opinion!

True. We also have a great extent of free-will. Just think!
Can a squirrel ponder about economics? Considering how our brain
is far more complex than a squirrel's, I don't think its likely. But humans
have an awsome power of imagination and free will to do anything.
We invented commerce on our planet, and we have capacity to love,
hate and reproduce. We have values and religious beliefs....

Unlike us, animals don't do most of these things... My only guess
is that they don't have a soul. So, they don't pray.

I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the children of men that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts (animals).

For that which befall the children of men befall beasts (animals); even one thing befall them: as the one dies, so dies the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man (better said: intellectual beast) has no preeminence above a (irrational) beast: for all is vanity.

All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Who knows the soul of man that goes upward, and the soul of the beast that goes downward to the earth? Ecclesiastes 3: 18-21

CHILL.... like I said.. my opinion... and your rant didn't change my mind... only got your blood pressure up!

Yes You are either an animal, or a plant...please choose carefully which you'd rather be

As for praying...I highly doubt it. Spirituality is a human concept...a by product of being sentient. Humans have a need to question their existance...god(s) and religion were designed to answer these questions, during a time when humanity was not equiped to answer them properly.

Hey, my blood pressure didn't go up! I just like your whack smilie!

Your mind is too hard to change!

I missed and "O" in the word "TOO"

I'll add my bit, even though it only echos what others have said:

Animals are not supposed to have souls, and as such do not pray, or even have any comprehension of religion, as religion is soley the preserve of beings who have self awareness of purpose.

Oh puhleezeee...

I think that comparing human religion with an animal's intellectual capacity is too far fetched. How about comparing the religious rituals of industrialized(-nation) religions and the spiritual rituals of unindustrialized nations?

Have you ever read National Geographic or watched the Discovery Channel?

The Dieties worshipped by indigenous tribes are very different from the larger religions of the "new world".

"Elephants have instinctive burial rituals, but thats as far as it goes. "

Methinks you have watched too many Johnny Weismuller movies if you still believe in the "elephants graveyard"

"Animals have no soul how do you know of this can you prove this to me, can you quote the Bible where this is written?"

err no actually I can't. I was relating a tale told to me by a christian sunday school teacher, are you sure you want to contradict that kind of Holy ammunition.
but then that'll be because I'm not a christian maybe.
The bible has no answers at all
It's a book full of reconstituted myth and superstition.
Have you tried the talmud or the torah
They're both in a similar vein but far far older
Kinda like the teachers edition really

Eh? Obviously epephants dont actually bury their dead with shovels, what I meant was they they mourn their dead, and exhibit similar behaviour patterns when encountering their dead. Methinks you need to sdo some reading and stop trying to be such a smart-ass http://www.animalsentience.com/features/el...heir_fallen.htm

While hiking in the Canadian Rockies a Baptist minister finds himself on a narrow rock ledge over looking the valley below. As he squeezes himself around a tight corner he comes face to face with a Hugh Grizzly. With no place to go he begins to tremble and drops to his knees to pray for deliverance. A few minuets pass by and he opens his eyes to see why the bear has not attacked. And low and behold he notices the bear on his knees also. Brother Bear he exclaimed I had know idea you were a believer!.
The Bear opened his big brown eyes and explained I may be new at this but I never forget to say grace!

Good one Irish!

"His touching the other elephant almost seemed like he was nostalgically caressing him.The lions patiently watched the entire ritual take place, and cautiously returned to their feast when the big bull had finished paying his respects."

Theres this thing called transference http://www.answers.com/transference&r=67

Or are you saying that you know the elephants in this case personally and they told you that they were in mourning
I don't see any black armbands in this case
Did they hold a wake as well

If only you were perfect- at least as animals! But to animals belongs innocence.

Thus spoke Zarathustra

Hi all

Animals dont need to pray, they are all ready blessed

All the best
faeden

Yes. Animals don't have free will, they are guided directly by God. They know more than humans do, but after the expulsion from Eden with Adam and Eve their mouths were closed. They do not get judged, but instead, if you mistreat them, on your death they will accuse you. They have their respective Heavens, and they DO have souls. God teaches the eagle to hunt for prey, the lion to attack the antelope for the pride, etc. They are not sinning, they are following God in order to survive.

Like was said by God, God 'made the good and the bad'. What you consider 'bad' God has created that way for their own survival.

I don't know if there is anything that prays to God like us people, but honestly I can't rule it out...

I do believe on the other hand everything gives God glory...
A tree gives glorry to God by growing leaves...
A cat gives glory to God by purring and catching mice...
The sun gives glory to God by burning bright...

What I am saying it that everything gives glory to God by doing what it was meant to do, what God made it to do...

LBD

Everything that lives and breathes from animals to trees has a soul.

Reading this thread will create more questions than answers for me.

What questions? Do ask.

My belief is, the animals of this planet would go to heaven because they are pure and perfect beings.

We had a Siamese male in our family for 12 years and he was very close to my Mother. He howled for days after she passed away.
My Catholic/Hispanic tradition says we are suppose to pray for 9 days in our relatives homes and the first one would be in my home.
Our Cat sat still like the sphink, in the center of the room the entire time while we were praying. I do believe that he is aware of God and he showed his respect for my Mom, his Mamma also that day.
He has already passed away.
And when he was dying, all of my other Cats were in a circle around him and "Abby" his wife layed besides him.
After the funeral, all of the Cats layed around his gravesite.
We were so touched, and Abby was so so sad for weeks afterwards.
We also have one of the male Cats who is the new beloved leader. He's friendly to all of his Pride too. (Btw) My Siamese trained the new leader.

there are many examples of other creatures doing this too.

Yep, that's right, they are pure souls.

This thread makes me start to wonder about animals minds and the cristian faith.

Do animals care about anything besides their own survial?
Technically, human beings are animals, so if animals just die, then same with us?
Are animals aware of God?
Or do they have their own gods/godesses?
If God created earth just for us, then why did he make diverse ecosystems and so many species of animals?
Does God get angry when a species become extinct?
If animals go to heaven, would it be the same as ours?(personly, I don't want to spend eternity with scorpians and monkeys)

These are just some of the questions this thread gave me.

1. Yes, animals are quite caring, they'll adopt a species other than their own, etc. But they are also bitchier than the human world. Their conduct is acceptable for the very fact that they were created to be that way.

2. Yes, animals are aware of God, that's been written, but I've seen it in practice also.

3. I've already answered that

4. So that the Earth is populated everywhere, be it by animal or human, and each are created with the ability to sustain themselves in their given environments. Also, the food chain....the spider eats the fly, the bird eat the spider, etc.

5. I would suppose so. Humans are meant to look after animals not send them to extinction. Care-taking of wild animals God and certain angels do themselves, but when humans abuse them to extinction, I would imagine God gets quite ropeable.

6. No, they each have their own respective Heavens. Though no doubt you could visit them.

Please do some research on the subject before you make yourself look completely idiotic. There is a wealth of information on the web and many top animal behaviouralists all agree that elephants mourn... http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=na...elephants+mourn

Stop making yourself look a bit silly now...

What about the little microscopic enzymes that live in your intestines. They help keep you alive and ward off some sickness, after all their help, they'll just, disappear? But they did so much GOOD!

Anywho, I would tend to say that a heaven without nature, is no heaven at all. That would include all plants, animals, etc etc etc...For that is my view, and my opinion.

Thanks

Hi all

My dog star who has now passed on, got into the news paper for her bravery, and was brought back from the dead after being in a house fire.

By the way the man in the article before anyone asks is not me, its my dad.

Star is my best friend and guardian angel.



All the best
Faeden

That's so nice Faeden.
*Nice home and family*

God teaches the eagle to hunt for prey, the lion to attack the antelope for the pride, etc.
Nah. thats just instinct.

Mice, men share 99 percent of genes
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/...sc.mousegenome/

There is only 1% of genes that makes us any different from mice. If we were to add that 1% to them, would they have a soul then ? lol

We are most similar to apes, Same 206 bones, All but 3 of 650 muscles the same
DNA is 98% the same and Same blood types.

If the soul does exist then of course animals have souls.. we are not that different fom some animals on this planet

Human DNA compared to:

Chimpanzee 99% same

Gorilla 97.7% same

Orangutan 96.3% same

Another human 99.9% same


anyway, I dont believe animals pray.. its just a human fault

Valid question. HMM

Most animals are not evolved enough to make up ideas and such about god and what not. I do believe that gorillas, dolphins, chimps and such wonder perhaps, but don't ponder on it.

Gorillas can speak in sign language, they should be able to believe in something. Nothing complex though.

Instinct yes... But that is the way they were made... They do what they do because they were made to do it... That is how they give glory to God...

LBD

I'd say no... God designed us to have souls... he makes a soul for each newborn child... it has nothing to do with the DNA, but the relationship with God.

You aren't a mass of atoms and electricity... you are a soul with some connection to a mass of atoms and electricity. A soul is what makes you aware of your existance, and it is what seperates us from animals. How can a cluster of atoms be aware of it's existance?

Ah yes... Good point JF...

That is one of the things that really made me seek out God... And one of the things that reinforced my beliefs in an after life... Consciousness...

LBD

have you ever thought of just not existing? it boggles the mind... where would you go? how do you just not exist anymore? it's hard to think of your own conciousness just stopping... that's one of the reasons i believe there is an afterlife... that, and faith in Jesus Christ.

I feel like a hollow log when I think of what happens if a non-believer would be right about death

I believe...not because of that aspect, but because of what I see, believe!

I can't understand that either...

If you just unexisted all of the sudden would you be conscious right now?

LBD