ok lately I've been reading all this stuff about the rapture and armageddon. etc but what I dont understand is i thought that God was supposed to be all loving and forgive people for their sins. So how come people who dont believe apparantly have to go through suffering and go to hell at the end of the world??

Welcome to the Forum Only_14!
About the best advice you are really going to get here at this Forum is this: Go talk to your Pastor. To get ideas here will only tend to get you more confused.

PS Sorry I am not trying to be rude.

Religion was very confusing Only_14.
The best thing you could do to your life is to be a good person all the time
because it promise a lot of things. And when you grew up, you are one of the best
people who could change the world to make it a better place to live.

Well said Scipherel

if you do really good reserch you will find that most of the present day religions are copies of religions that have gone under. I personally believe in God, but not satan , jesus, hell, or anything relating to that. I do however believe in heaven and other happy stuff. The armaggedon, to me, is just something that angry religious people thought up to scare the "wicked" people back to god. I personally dont like the idea of a pontif, but if it brings overall good and prosperity , who cares, as long as people are overall doing right , good for religion

Well, Thanks much !!!


(this timeout thing don't want me to reply quick, it just freeze)

I believe God made us suffer as a strict parent would be to her kids.

A strict parent would spank her kid, set limits and cerfews, and yet the parent loves her child so so much. The parent wants her child to be a behaving child, one who would be nice and treat others the way they wanted to be treated.

I think God makes us suffer to make us stronger in life. If we do not get used to suffering, how would you live without learning from your errors and mistakes that was lead from suffering?

Hi Only_14

Your find if you do some study into the folk that believe that there is going to be an Armageddon your find that the people that believe it, and spread the fear are god fearing people (which more than not they fear life and death) so they find great comfort in terrifying others and causing others to be just as suppressed with fear as they are.

If the world does end, it will have nothing to do with God or a Devil it will because of mans own stupidity and ignorance, that is a direct result of the extremist god fearing end of the world loving people you see that talk about these dilutional things.

Some people have been brainwashed so much by fear by other extremists, that they have got them selves into a catch 22 situation, its a vicious circle of spiritual paranoia that they can not get out of, they are stuck in a dark and depressing world within there own heads, with an attitude of "god is wrathful and angry", yet so it the devil, so to question there own self-induced paranoid or to embrace common sense will put them on a one way ticket to hell, as you dont question a wrathful god.

If they question there belief no matter how ridiculous, means in there own dilutional heads that that is God testing them, or that it is to sympathise with the devil, so any type of reasoning to the extremist that have these "the world is doomed" type is to them to go on the side of the devil, they cant win unless they fear god and the devil and also to make it there goal to make everyone else around them as unhappy and as fearful as they are.

They have invented in there dilutional minds that everyone on earth, but them, is sinful and against god and that they are godly and holier than thou, so to many of these Armageddon praying people the end of the world is a good thing, because all us evil sinners are going to burn burn burn for a whole eternity while they sit in heaven by the throne of God looking down at us burn while they laugh and say ‘haha I told you so’.

Anyone with any common sense or is free from religious brainwashing, will know that god is not evil, and that its human kinds own greed, naiveity, and arrogance that will put an end to life on earth. People that believe that the world is going to come to an end because "God hates the world", are in simple words people with no lives, that cant function in life because of a self induced fear, and have no self worth, so to look upon them selves as holier and better than everyone else, and that god will protect them from the Armageddon makes them feel important and powerful and gives them a false sense of pride.

If the world does end the only people that will have troubles after death in the after life, are the men and women that contributed to causing it, and who wished and prayed that it would happen.

All the best
Faeden

I am a preacher man and can answer your question for you. According to the bible, God created man and woman who rebelled against God, just like Satan and most people who claim not to believe in God. Every person believes in a God, especially when they're young. I remember when I wasn't a Christian in high school. I always laughed at the idea of God, but when I wanted or needed something, I always found myself praying to him. Everyone knows that there's a God, a God who gave every man and woman a choice. It's called freewill. The bible says that the wages of sin is death. We all sin. When Jesus died on the cross, he paid for all the sins of those WHO BELIEVE IT. Right now, you have a choice. You obviously believe in God and you have a choice. You can turn against God, fully knowing the consequences or turn towards God knowing the reward. It's your choice. If someone goes to hell, it's because they chose their path.

When it comes to the rapture and armageddon and such: God looks down and sees what the world has become today. It's full of moral depravity and evil and violence and gets let's say.....pissed off !!!!!!!!!!!! He will then rapture his church for two reasons. One reason is to remove his church from the punishment about to happen and the second is as a miracle to give people one last chance....one last sign that there is a God and they have one last chance to turn from their ways. But, people will still choose to rebel against God and will deny God has anything to do with it. They'll say the "rapture" happened because of aliens or a new weapon of mass destruction or anything other than God. If you look at why God created man and what we have become today, I really don't blame God for getting angry.

"If you look at why God created man and what we have become today, I really don't blame God for getting angry."
So what did your god create man for exactly ?
was he lonely
awww
Also why is it that God promises not to attempt to kill mankind again after the flood then immediately goes back on his word by announcing a rapture at some point

p.s. Don't worry about my immortal soul, i've found a loophole and will repent just before I die.
apparently that will make God love me more than you who is actually serving him here on earth.
See you in heaven, I'll be the one waving from the top table.
Tough break huh

There is no hell, so don't worry. Hell was created by power-high humans in order to keep control (hey, it works to keep people doing well) I don't believe you should live your life in fear. I don't believe god wants you to either.


Ya know its funny... Christianity is sounding more and more like a crazy cult.

i think zandore gave you the best advice. go talk to a pastor or priest.
if you dont want to do that and are up for a bit of reading, read CS Lewis' Mere Christianity. i think it has something concerning this, but i can remember for sure. even if it doesnt answer your question its a good read. a local public library should have a copy you could check out.
or you could try reading this: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/whyjust.html and see if that helps to answer your question.

The bible doesn't anywhere try to get people to fear hell. God wants us to live happy, fulfilled and great lives. It even says that God didn't give us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind. I don't know how anyone can believe in God, but say there is no hell. Hell is all over the bible and is not used as a fear impliment. Would it be fair to tell people that there is no hell?

God never promised that he wouldn't kill man again. What kind of statement is that? In the end, it is God who does, in essence, takes the life of every single man and woman who ever lived or will live. God organizes when we are born and when we will die. Everyone will die. He did say he'll never wipe out mankind with a flood again, but said it will be done again by fire.

Why did God create man? Why do couples have children?

Hey, good luck with that loophole thing. I hope it works out for you.

Yes it is used for fear. Point me to anywhere in the bible that hell existed in the OT when heaven and earth ony existed. Where did hell come from God did not create it when he created the universe in Genesis.

Thats a question i ask all the time, i was told that god also has to be just, but u cant be both, the bible itself it full of contradictions, and this is just another

God is all forgiving and loving... Thus we have Jesus...
And it is the sin we have on our hearts that condemns us...

Nicely said...
And yes religion is very confusing... But faith and spirituality is not...

Yes it is very important to be a good person...
Jesus said,
"What you do for the least of these, you also do for me"

But no matter how good of a person we are we can never get ride of our own sin... It will stick to us like glue...
Jesus lived a sinless life in our place, yet he bore the sins of us all...


Amen Hailo...


Awesome saucy... I couldn't have said it better myself...


Alot of people throw terms like murderer at God... I really don't think those people know God at all...
How can you judge something that is so much greater then yourself? How can you judge something you obviously don't know?

LBD

Hmmm, maybe these statements may end your confusion,
Only the god of the christians says you will go to hell if you don't believe in him
Only the god of the christians has satan
Only the god of the christians sent his son to earth to die for our sins as a mortal man
Only the god of the christians says that reincarnation doesn't exist for mortal men
Only the christians are waiting for their messiah to be reincarnated
Only the god of the christians has a book with none of his actual words in it which is called the word of god


Most other faiths are much easier going and don't offer you the fires of hell for being born in a non christian country or for having your own beliefs or for being completely innocent of any crime.
It seems ignorance is a crime in this religion.

Even in a human court of law (which can't be as perfect as gods law according to christians) Ignorance of the law is accepted as a mitigating factor.

How perfect is that
I guess you'd have to ask a christian



"How can you judge something that is so much greater then yourself? How can you judge something you obviously don't know"
well theres these things called morals you know. we all have them
allegedly

Tell that to the inhabitants of several cities that I honestly don't think need to be named, and the millions upon millions of men, women, and children that he murdered in his playpool

Thank You for the vote of confidence. Only_14 I am assuming you are only 14 (No pun intended) and at that age you need someone to talk to that will have your best interests at heart.

So if a mother would spank her own child and take away their TV, friends and video games, the mother would not be loving?

Again it is sin that sends us to Hell...

Whats your point?

What do you need reincarnation for if you have ressurection?

Do you have any idea of what you speak? Because the statement quoted above it completely false...

Again, do you know of what you speak? I understand that the bible was written by men, but that is where the faith that Gods will be done comes into play... Man is flawed, but I have faith that Gods power can more then supercede mans flaws...

I never became a christian because I feared hell, that would be wrong... You cast stones at something you obviously have no real clue about...

Oh I am sure God takes things such as that into account as well...


So what? Are you trying to imply that us christians don't have morals? And that doesn't answer the questions...
"How can you judge something that is so much greater then yourself? How can you judge something you obviously don't know"
Is the law subject to the law?

LBD

No..but if a mother beat up, drowned, disintegrated, blinded, stuck down with disease, or any of the other things god has done to his supposed "children"...then yes, I'd find it very hard to believe she was loving.

So if a mother would spank her own child and take away their TV, friends and video games, the mother would not be loving?

sure thats not the problem, just that this mother didn't stop there did she.
She went on to declare war on the neighbours and then burnt her own kids alive after first torturing them to make them give up the names of their brothers and sisters. After that she destroys The rest of the folks in the road where she lives because they have a different surname. Then she goes out and tells everyone that she's the best mother on earth and anyone who says otherwise should also be burnt alive
for eternity
You can only take metaphors so far.

In this case the mother needs to be In an institution with a frontal lobotomy rubber wallpaper and one of those jackets with the funny sleeves.
hmmm, maybe she is already and thats the problem

Hmm, ok so being a 'preacher man' for YOUR church gives you some authority does it? Only YOUR church will be saved right? It don't work like that. It's got nothing to do with a CHURCH, it's to do with PEOPLE. The end has LITERALLY been prophecizd from the Beginning, in Enoch, not too far after the Genesis account. It also gave a timeframe, but no one knows the hour or day etc.

Ask yourself this. If being saved meant you had to die for God as God died for you, would you do it? Not in the same way, but still, would you do it? Not everyone is going to die at once. No one's going to be floating up in a little white fluffy cloud.

You don't even KNOW why God created man. God created man to see what this second angel, an angel which had what no other had - FREE WILL - would do. And also like no other angel, these two had the ability to reproduce, which also incurred death and mortality after their fall.

And as God said when He made Adam 'I will see who among you race will love or abhor Me'. This right after telling him about his free will, that He knows man's nature, and that ignorance is hated by God 'more than the sin that is in him to sin' as God has told Adam the difference between right and wrong.

Uh Ahsley "His church" means Christians all over. That's what his church means, there's a verse for it. I liked Saucy's post .

Preachers don't cover every church. A person doesn't have to belong to any church to believe in God.

Part of what he is saying is true, I will say.

Don't concern yourself with the non-believiers, you let GOD take care of them. As for you go about your life, trust GOD knows the good,from the so called "bad people."

The most important focus in Jesus' time on earth was his interest in the non-believer. That was his mission, to spread his message and hope and enlightenment to all that did not know of the gory of God.
You say to a religeous person to not concern himself with the non believing is to instruct someone not to walk the way of Jesus. It is our concern. Be a glorious witness and reach out to as many agnostics as possible while here on earth. Jesus will be proud.

Say, you as a creator, make something.
This something flourishes, but then becomes drunk on its own pride.
It insults your intelligence, it never thanks you, and it claims that it is you. It believes wholeheartedly that it knows best. It destroys the world you gave it, it destroys other 'somethings' dignity, happiness, etc. It takes away basic needs from somethings, like food, and water.

Wouldnt you get slightly bothered?

I think Hell was intended for those people who are REALLY bad. If you told a lie, I dont think you will suffer.
Those people who kill thousands of people probably do deserve some retribution or fitting punishment dont they?
Wouldnt that be just, because of all the pain they inflicted upon others?

No your concern is pay your taxes, got to church once a week and speculate on things you've only read about, not lived or met personally.

The rapture is a completely unbiblical concept. One not supported, except in the most circumstancial reading of Revelation. I personally do not believe there to be a Rapture, where people are suddenly going to go missing at their desks, driving buses, cars, or any such thing. I do not think it is supportable through scripture.

That said, I could be wrong. If I am, I'd like to think I'd be one of those disappearing. If (and I do say IF) the Rapture is true, and I'm left down here, then I'm going to have to take a good look at my life and see what I've been doing wrong.

To sum it up, basically, I don't think it matters. If the rapture happens, then it'll be time to think about it more. But as it is, without strong Biblical support, it's futile to worry about what might be. Just prepare. Someone said live a good life, that's a start. A very good start. I think it should go further than that, but since I don't want to preach, I'll leave it at that.

As for Hell, the general consensus is that it is not a place of fire and torture. that is a belief also not supportable through the words of the Bible (except in the most circumstancial way). However, it is also to be noted that Heaven is preferable to Hell. I personally believe Hell to be separation from God (while leaning to the strong possibility that this just means ceasing to exist). However, I think I would prefer eternity in the presence of God.

Does my post above have a point? I don't know. I just started typing and this is how it came out. Hope it makes sense.

Regards, PA

One could argue that these are the actions of people speaking in the name of the wonderful mother. That they do things the mother does not want is not a reflection upon the mother, but of the people themselves.

Regards, PA

PA why did you dig up such an old topic that kid that made it -- only 14 was last active march 2005!!!

Forget verses. The greek word for Church translates simply as body of believers. A group of Christians (or anyone for that matter) gathering together for similar purpose, they are a church.

Err, what does going to church have anything to do with this? YOu don't have to go to church (as in a building/organization) to be "saved".

I didn't dig it up. Allthings17 did. I was just responding to it.

Regards, PA

Ohh sorry Pa...but hey it was a tad strange ..giving advice to someone that hasnt been on line for almost a year

True, but the advice is fairly generic. I'm sure there's someone out there, somewhere, that might find it useful.

Regards, PA

ohh yea true yup yup

but the best advice for it...is to ask your pastor or priest what ever.............or search for yourself

I dunno. Pastor's, while some are good - they often have an agenda to keep. And only in knowing the BIble yourself can you separate the genuine pastor's with the not so genuine ones.

Asking a pastor can be helpful, but is not always the wisest option. In my opinion of course.

Regards, PA

Have you ever taken the word of what your pastor has told you seriously?

Without any other proof, and contrary to my own understanding of the BIble? No.

But the pastor at my church is pretty good with this kind of thing. I trust him in most things, though occassionally we do differ in opinion.

Regards, PA

Rapture: The state of being transported by a lofty emotion; ecstasy.
-Dictionary.com

Is it really all that bad?

Technically Geneocide, if I where to get technical.