A new theory I have briefly searched the site and found nothing on this topic, but moderators please feel free to move this!

The word Swastika comes from the Sanskrit words su, meaning well, and asti, meaning "to be". An ancient symbol, the Swastika was used in various forms by many civilizations all over the world. It was the sign of Thor's hammer for Scandinavians. It was used by early Christians as an alternative cross to avoid persecution, and by later Christians as a decorative emblem. It was widespread among Native American peoples. It appeared in ancient Oriental, Egyptian, and Irish cultures.

Swastika - (Sanskrit "good luck" or "well-being", literally "it is good"). The name and first use of the swastika was first mentioned in the Vedas, the holy texts of Hinduism.

Its origins are unknown, but its first use might have been as a solar calendar illustration. In the late nineteenth century, the swastika symbolized a movement celebrating Germanic culture, heritage, and nationalism. By 1912, this movement began to take on anti-Semitic undertones. Later, Adolph Hitler chose the swastika to be the symbol of the Nazi Party. The Nazi swastika was a clockwise pointing swastika, whereas most Buddhist versions are counterclockwise.

The swastika "stone" was found in the moors near Ilkley in West Yorkshire. I would just like your comments on this, could this mean Hitler was a religious man? Practicing some acient religion?

Source

Its origins are unknown, but its first use might have been as a solar calendar illustration. In the late nineteenth century

then you'll be able to tell me how the walls of troy were decorated with swastikas.
The swastika was stolen by the thule society in the early 30s
Hitler came up with the idea of putting it on a red background but the symbol itself dates from antiquity

It is quite a mesmerizing and interesting symbol.

Some say it represents a migrational pattern or map after humanity was established...

ah so mankind started off in N America and spread out from there
This is a bit revolutionary isn't it
I'm sure Hitler would have placed the centre of the swastika somewhere else

According to Native American creation myths, Yes.



Are you sure? So what if he did? What other location would the center of a swastika migrational pattern be more logical?

PS. The four sides of the swastika also represent the four general races of mankind.

I would actually debate the Thors Hammer remark too, seems as tho the source is incorrect. The Sunwheel is the Nordic version of this, not the symbol of Thor. The Swastika actually looks more like 2 of the nordic runes for 'wolfs hook' crossed at the center.

Hoagy

The people of the world must be educated and re-educated in the subject of Swastika to justify such worldwide agitation not only to save the Swastika but also to reinstate this holy and humble symbol with all its status, glory and respects.

Swastika the universal and most revered symbol of auspiciousness, good luck and well being has been portrayed as the symbol of horror, hatred and racism by the western world after World War II. The world politics have brain washed the new generation and created unnecessary hatred towards the Swastika by portraying it as the symbol of evil, demise, destruction and ruination, and kept the public aloof from the true meaning, significance and history of Swastika. Due to its misrepresentation many look at it and consider it today as a symbol of hate, terror and a reminder of the atrocities committed by Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Party. Swastika was not invented or designed by Hitler. He merely stole it from the most ancient human civilisations of Vedic period and used it as the emblem of his party called NSDAP (National Socialist German Workers Party) also known as Nazi (National Socialist Community) and annihilated the significance of this most ancient symbol respected as the sign of good luck, fortune and auspiciousness. Swastika was widely adopted in German society well before Hitler Era and many organisations such as Thule Society, a secret Neo-Monastic Lodge and Paramilitary Freikorps used as their symbol.


Thousands of years of heritage and its good faith cannot be wiped out or destroyed by this single shocking event in history. It was not the fault of Swastika that Hitler misused it. Hitler was born and brought up as a Christian and he was not a follower of Vedic Dharma or its branches or philosophy, and he was not tall, blonde and white as described in Aryan Race Theory invented by British Royal Historians for their political gain well before Hitler. Why should the most sacred and gentle symbol of human race be punished for whatever heinous act Hitler, his ideology and his followers committed? Swastika must not be punished for what Hitler did as Swastika has always represented harmony, humbleness and humanity and oneness in all diversities.


Swastika is the oldest religious symbol known to the human race and is widely recognised in various cultures all across the world.

[quote=marduk,Mar 22 2005, 05:37 PM]I'm sure Hitler would have placed the centre of the swastika somewhere else
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Are you sure? So what if he did? What other location would the center of a swastika migrational pattern be more logical? [/quote]

I said nothing about Hitler being logical
He had a strong belief that the German bloodline was pure because of its nordic heritage.
He thought berlin was the centre of earth.

The swastika used to be a good luck symbol.

Unfortunately when people see it nowadays, they think of the Nazis.

Personally, I'm guessing it was originally a representation of the sun. It does go back to ancient times, though. It also appears on ancient art from both the Old World and the New World, though in some cases the arms of the swastika go in different directions. I think that its appearance in widely separated geographic areas is most likely because it is, really, a very simple design. In other words, I don't think you can build any sort of Atlantean theories or anything on its distribution.

it's an inverted buddist peace symbol sort of very very freaky

it kind of re-enforces the fact that 'one apple spoils the bunch,, one man had to ruin it for the rest of us

Swastika=Symbol of ignorance

But Neo, would it be a symbol of ignorance if it had not been used by the Nazi's?

One of my co-workers has the swastika tattooed on her hand. She's originally from the Haitian islands, so it's more-than-likely a religious symbol (the arms face in a counter-clockwise direction, if I remember correctly.) However, due to so many misconceptions being raised about the image, many employees have come to the conclusion that she's a Nazi.

It's strange how one symbol can hold so much weight. The swastika itself is a nice design. It implies unity (the arms connecting together) and peace (a continuous flow.) Too bad Hitler and co. had to mess that one up.

[edit:don't swear in posts, thanks.]

The swastika was neither a sign of anti-Semitism nor Christianity. It predates both by a very long time.

And as for the repeating claims that Nazi used the clockwise which means evil and misfortune while the counterclockwise mean good fortune - that's a load of rubbish.... in Europe, the swastika, or fylfot as it was known in pre-Christian germanic countries, may be drawn clockwise or counterclockwise; the direction inferred nothing of its intent.

The use of the swastika was associated by Nazi theorists with their conjecture of Aryan cultural descent of the German people. Allegedly, the Nazis believed that the early Aryans of India, from whose Vedic tradition the swastika sprang, were the prototypical white invaders. Thus, they saw fit to co-opt the sign as a symbol of the Aryan master race. The German nationalist poet Guido von List mistakenly believed it to be a uniquely Aryan symbol and Hitler himself referred to the swastika as the symbol of, "the fight for the victory of Aryan man".

...and also just for the record, having blonde hair and blue eyes does not make you Aryan

Maybe not but it was used by the Nazis.
And i'm pretty sure you will turn a few heads if you walk around town wearing one.
And they won;t ask you the historical significance of it.
They call you a Facist

lol... ofcourse not... as a matter of fact, the only true "Ayrians" are the Iranians and Kurds, who speak Indo-Aryan languages. Last time I checked, they are of middle-eastern complexion .

The entire Nazi racial theory was based on pseudo-science and pure nonsense and hatred.

yeah, all kinda sad really.

Haha, Neo, I would'nt wear one, no-way! I don't want an 4ss-kicking! If poeple took the time to research it, I guess it would'nt be so taboo.

The thing is, that there is a dillema on whether this symbol should be given it's original meaning back.
I mean, yeah, it's a great atrocity that the Nazis have destroyed such a symbol which for so long meant something good.
But there is the fear that by changing the meaning back to it's origins, the atrocities will be forgotten - and in 200 years from now not many will remember that great crimes against humanity have been comitted under this symbol.
I think the Nazis were evil enough and stretched human cruelty enough to be able to destroy a millenas old symbol forever, as a symbol that their evilness will never be forgotten.

Even if they did take time to research it I doubt that they could look past it;'s dark history.

I think that it should'nt be given its meaning back, I mean, how offensive could it be to those whole relatives and ancestors were brutally slain under that sign?

My bet is very offensive.
I mean Price Harry wore one to a costume party and the whole world was up in arms about it

yeah, but he is a clueless royal at the end of the day...

My late grandfather was in a labour camp, my entire late grandmother's family was wiped out in the death camps.
I will forever hate the Nazis and their like, and will teach my children to hate them as well.
For me and my family, the meaning of this symbol will never be forgotten, I'll make sure of that.

Yes but imagine someone trying to convince the general public that wearing a swastika isn't a bad thing just look at the history
I'm pretty sure people arn;t gonna stand for it.Regardless of history

The problem with Harry's costume wasn't simply the Swastika.... people, he wore a full Wermacht uniforms for god's sake!
Forget what it means to Jews and other victims of Nazi persecution.... the Nazis killed hundred of thousands of Britons, bombed your cities, and were about to conquer your country.
Seeing a british national symbol in Nazi uniforms is the realization of Hitler's wet dreams .

Hitler's wet dreams good one.
But unfortunatly true

I have been told that the Romans carried the Swastika into war also, does anyone know is this is true? I think Hitler was very inspired by the conquests of the Romans and tried to recreate the glory of the Roman Empire.

I thought the swastika was the the Phoenician sun symbol. If anyone has read anything on the Phoenician culture or has seen any pictures it was a symbol on the robe of Phoenician high priestess.

I don't know if the Romans carried it, but I know that the Trojans had swastikas on their shields - such shields with swastikas on them have been found in the ruins of ancient Troy.
Hitler didn't try to restore or glorify the Roman empire - that was what the Fascists in Italy tried to do.
Hitler tried to restore the Holy Roman Empire, also known as the First Reich, that existed from 843 - 1806, and united most of western and central Europe, and had most of it's citizens to be Germanic. One should note though that a long line of the First Reich's Kaisers were of Slavic (Bohemian) descent..... if the Nazis did bother to learn history, that would have caused some problems with their treatment of Slavs .

Seems to me that Hitler stole the Nazi symbol from the Hindu symbol of fertility. He also stole the Aryan race theory of a warlike light-skinned people who wiped out dark-skinned Indians in the north of India.

Racists. Can't come up with anything original or worthwhile.

I don't think he stole that from the Hindus.... the swastika was well known in Europe as well as North America from ancient times. It seems that this symbol goes back before humans seperated into different "races" accross the globe .

As for Nazi racism - that resulted from European colonialism who, as science became more dominant in European societis, needed scientific explainations to why white europeans are allowed to rule africans, indians and asians .

Well I came up with my idea because of the India connection. He took the Aryan race theory, and so I assumed he also took the Swaztika from India.

Do you think this original "race" were Aryan? I mean the people who wrote in the Sanskrit language. Are they the ones from whom all are descended? I once read at a website that Ireland is actually Aryanland. I can't find the link anymore. If I do I'll post it.

Apologies for going off topic.

Depends on whether or not you believe in evolution, and whether or not you buy into the theory that we evolved from primates.

Creationism states that all human beings were of the same race until God decided to split everyone up (tower of babylon, corruption, etc. contributed to that, or so says the bible.) If this were the case, the Aryan's would be the original race.

Evolution implies that we all came from Africa. If this is true, the original humans were black.

Well, the Nazis actually believed that the original Aryans came from Northern Europe, where is now Germany. According to their belief, some went east, some went west, some went south, and everywhere they went, they have been "mixed" with "lower" races, thus the only remaining "pure" Aryans are the German people, who are therefore natural born leaders to all of humanity .

As for what I think - I think the entire Nazi racial theory is a joke. I'll give myself as an example - I'm 6ft tall, redheaded, and have blue eyes, and straight nose. Yet I'm Jewish at both sides of my family, and even come from a long line of rabbis through my grandmother on my dad's side. If no one would have been aware that I'm Jewish, I could have been conscripted to the SS.

I think most of the Europeans today are descendants of local people who lived there for tens of thousands of years. The only pre-Indo-European culture in Europe today is that of the Basques.
As for the origins of the speakers of the Indo-European languages - today it is thought to belocated in Turkey, and from there they emigrated east to asia and west to Europe, mixing with the local populations, thus causing their common Indo-European language to break into Celtic, Romance, Germanic, Greek, Slavic, etc. languages you see today.
So basically the Europeans of today aren't "Aryans", they are merely local populations like the Basques that have started talking Indo-European (or "Aryan") languages.

Sceintifically and linguastically speaking though, only the Iranians and some Indians are "Aryans", and their branch of Indo-European languages is called Indo-Aryan for that matter. Also, they are the only ones who call their people "Aryans" in their native tongues since ancient times.
So in the end we come up with the fact that the true Aryans looked basically like modern Turks (medditeraneans) and today are the Iranians and some Indians . So much for Hitler's white supermacy.

As for the Irish - in Gaelic, Ireland is called Éireann, which has an etymology of "Aryan" into it.
I won't be surprised at all though, being that the Celts were the first Indo-European speakers to invade Europe. It is very well be that some have come through sea into Ireland directly, keeping the original name, or that they have immigrated into Ireland with some Iranian people as well.... but who knows - it has been so long ago, no records have been made from that time.

The point is though, that Celts and Slavs are just as Indo-European as Germans are (while according to the Nazis they are inferior).
And all the three (Celts, Slavs and Germanic people) are the descendants of local europeans who started speaking the language of new commers, or "Aryans", who came from modern day Turkey.

That was deep Erik. That's alot of info. I'm reading up on Indo-European languages. Just websites. I've always been confused as to what "Indo-European" means. I googled it and there are a whole bunch of language studies' sites that pop up.

It's really interesting that this "Swatztika" was used by many ancient cultures. I wonder what other symbols are "universal" so to speak.

I'll pervert what you said and say, "the Aryans are really the Africans"? Interesting. Hitler would check himself into an asylum if he thought about that.

By the way, what theory do you accept? As of now I buy the human evolution from primates theory.

down with nazi!!!!

Same. If you pay attention to ethnic distribution across the globe, it paints a fairly simplistic picture of how humans developed and migrated from continent to continent. I could go off into a detailed explanation as to why I believe this, but I doubt anyone feels like reading it.

I remember a while back when they wanted to ban the swastika but the Hindus were protesting because it's a sacred symbol for them.

This one
The Ouroborus

There is an extraordinary resemblance between the svastika from yorkshire (picture up there) and the "rosa camuna", a kind of svastika, used as solar symbol by prehistoric civilizations of northern Italy since at least the III millennium B.C.
Now it's still in use as symbol of the italian regione of Lombardy.



The engraving is part of an archeological site which is parte of the world heritage, considered the most important in Europe, for what concerns neolithic engravings.

I've never seen this before. What does it represent?

hmm good question
But in short it represents everything
heres one view of it though that may make it easier
http://www.geocities.com/ouroboruslove/ouroborus.html

edit: removed redundant quote]

The Swastika the nazi symbol, everyone knows that... dont try to pin it on Christians...lol..thats great now Hitler was a christian ??? good grief, people just cant think about enough ways to demonize christian people do they???

by the way, there is a symbol that looks like a swastika but points to the opposite way, and thats from Hindu religion...

i wonder whats next ??? The church of Satan is actually underground Christians ??? rofl ........

Actually it was originally a Christian symbol that was borrowed by Hitler and his Nazis, but I believe is no longer in Christian use.

It's allways best to read through a thread before posting.

Actually it was netiher a solely christian symbol nor a solely hindu symbol, as it predates both and existed in European societies even before Christianity (and probably before Hindu).

And to answer you question - yes, Hitler was a catholic christian, as he has been baptized into the catholic church.
Whether he continued to be a believing christian later in life that's another issue - when he was a nazi and established the nazi party, he was an atheist, believing that christianity is an offshoot of judaism, and thus invalid.
The Nazis themselves tried to create a new religion where Hitler is god... I think Himmler was responsible for doing that.