Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Vita 75 (Josephus) and the Turin Shroud
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality vs Skepticism
josephus
Fragment from Vita by contemporary historiographer Flavius Josephus;
http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/autobiog.htm
Moreover, when the city Jerusalem was taken by force, Titus Caesar persuaded me frequently to take whatsoever I would of the ruins of my country; and did that he gave me leave so to do. But when my country was destroyed, I thought nothing else to be of any value, which I could take and keep as a comfort under my calamities; so I made this request to Titus, that my family might have their liberty: I had also the holy books by Titus's concession. Nor was it long after that I asked of him the life of my brother, and of fifty friends with him, and was not denied. When I also went once to the temple, by the permission of Titus, where there were a great multitude of captive women and children, I got all those that I remembered as among my own friends and acquaintances to be set free, being in number about one hundred and ninety; and so I delivered them without their paying any price of redemption, and restored them to their former fortune. And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands, while the third recovered.


So if authentic, the shroud probabably dates from AD70, and the rich army commander and member of the Sanhedrin, Joseph Arimathea, was Flavius Josephus born as: Joseph ben Mat(ta)thias in AD37.
And Paul's empty doctrine of the hanged Jesus was after AD70 filled up with details borrowed from this extra-ordinary rescue incident in AD70.

In that case the Turin Shroud bears the image of the body of one of the disciples of Jesus, probably Marc.
It is also possible and highly likely that the diplomatic mission to the emperor in Rome (Nero) Josephus undertook in AD63 at the age of 26, was on behalf of the release of Paul as he had done a plea on the emperor.
From that event, Josephus may have known what important spiritual leader Marc must have been at that time, and immediately have recognized him being put on the cross, in AD70.

We never hear of this from the first christian church fathers, because this had always to be kept silent, since Marc did not die on the cross.
Otherwise people would have been able to reconstruct and find the resurrection of Jesus not so special anymore, because it then also happened to Marc. But it was the other way around. Marc was the one resceued from the cross just in time.
And that gave food to blow up the earlier doctrine of Paul of the hanged Jesus to the crucifixion story and the empty tomb in the gospels.

For more details: follow these links
http://home.tiscali.nl/turinshroud/
or
http://home.tiscali.nl/turinshroud/bestanden/main.htm

In the near future a movie about all of this will be realized.
If you wish to become involved in this project, follow this link:
http://home.tiscali.nl/turinshroud/bestanden/mainx.htm
Something Like Laughter
QUOTE
In the near future a movie about all of this will be realized.
If you wish to become involved in this project, follow this link:
http://home.tiscali.nl/turinshroud/bestanden/mainx.htm
about 6 months ago, i would have laughed at that, but then i saw this: http://www.thebeastmovie.com
Edit: nevermind, i read some of that website you posted, now i am laughing!
i dont see how the shroud of turin connects to josephus.
IIRC joseph of arimathea wasnt a military commander.
Ashley-Star*Child
Here's a few facts on that shroud. When it was carbon dated the first time they claimed it was paint and dated to the dark ages. When it was sent for DNA testing, they found it WAS from Jesus era, that it was in fact BLOOD, and not paint, and that blood was found to be of a JEWISH MALE, with AB blood. The blood wounds match that of Jesus, and there was also WOOD particles found on the cloth. When the original carbon daters heard this, the only comeback they could make was that it had 'been in a fire' during the time it was carbon dated to, and had left residue from that which skewed the original carbon dating.

Not only that, but unlike normal paintings, it leaves a negative image of a man. The nail marks were in the WRISTS as it actually WAS with Jesus and NOT on the palms as was erroneously assumed by most. When NASA experst did an analysis they found that unlike 2D photographs or paintings which, under this test show up distorted, the Turin Shroud in fact showed up as 3D.

For anyone saying there was no mention of a shroud in the Bible, this was the cloth that Jesus was BURIED IN, which was all that was left AFTER He resurrected.
Jesus_Freak
Ashley, wouldn't his burial cloths be wrapped around him, not laying on top of him? Also, many say that the nails were probably placed in his hands as the bible states, because with the support of his feet, the nails would not have ripped through his hand. Or another theory is that he was tied to the cross as most people were, and also nailed.
Ashley-Star*Child
No. I had this explained by a research Onolocologist that also had an interest in the Turin Shroud had been to Lourdes etc and was studying it. My mother met him at a hospital talking to him etc, and he came to our house and showed a slideshow, in gruesome detail (no, the Passion of the Christ didn't shock me, I'd seen it from this slideshow before, in horrible, gruesome detail, and that of other people who had been crucified, how they did it, etc) when I was a kid. The nails were in His WRISTS, and not in His palms.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.