Hi all

I believe that Jesus Christ was a spirit send unto the earth to bring man wisdom and words of love and peace, and to try and show man how to bring the peace of heaven to the physical world, which he did. But unfortunately over time his words have been corrupted, and bent to suit the needs of greedy power hungry men.

The real words of Jesus Christ I believe would have been hidden and kept out of reach of the public.

I believe the following words to be some of the words of Jesus, that was sent by heaven to help bring love and tolerance to people. They are documents and scrolls found in a labyrinth in secret archives of the Vatican. It is called the gospels of peace, it was translated in the early 1900s if I remember correctly. here is some of it, that I happen to agree with.

From the
Gospel of Peace:

In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea;

But seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scriptures without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the ever living word, teach the laws of the true God to man.

God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit.

The words of
Jesus Christ
as recorded by the
Disciple John
in the Gospel of Peace

All the best
Faeden

Of course Jesus did say to love your enemies which is a nice if not unpragmatic thing to say.

However, he did also say after the Parable of Talents, that:

Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

So much for that.

This is why any these gospels, those that reside in the canon or in the Gnostic portfolio are all suspect when it comes to try and quote a historical Jesus.

heyy,, i have a question please.

Jesus said to love our enemies


By the way, the devil could be one of our enemies.

The devil is our biggest enemy.

Should we love the devil ???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont think so !

Sorry Quicksand I dont understand you.

You know I just realised something. Forgive my dumbness as I am sure many have spotted it before, but I only just spotted it, look at the name Jesus. Jesus Could that be coincidental? I believe that God is all life. God is within us all, and all are within god.

All the best
Faeden

On one hand Jesus says love you enemies, yet on the other hand he says that he want his enemies slain. Which is it? If slaying your enemies is an act of love, then the word "love" has no meaning.

As far as your other inference you should know that the word Jesus is title that means savior or salvation and not a proper name at all, like Sheba for Rudra. Yes, in other words, you are looking at this english translation and reading something into to.

I just read the WHOLE thing. Jesus isn't saying that we should slay them, Jesus was saying that he WILL. God is a fair and just God, you betray him like most athiests think that, o yea I don't belive in God but if he's there I'll probably be happy there and go tp heaven w/o doing anything. If it was only that easy. Judge not lest ye be judged, but God judges all.

Thats so very true faeden. I find that i feel closer to god just walking or sitting in nature than i do in any church. Just looking up at the stars fills me with such awe and amazement and i think wow God is such a cool artist. Jesus was a way cool man !!

and yet it is the religous that are the most judgemental of all.

Actually there's a verse saying how you judge someone you shall be judged. So actually each peson will take it up to God. Just because it says that those who reject Christ go to hell doesn't mean we're judging you just stating what will happen. Now if someone judges you for ridiculous reasons than they will be judged the same way.

EDIT: I see you love to judge others Hyperactive, lol kinda hypocritical of you wont you say?

Has anyone seen the movie Stigmata? One of my favorites, there's a quote in one scene that reminded me of what you said Faedon:
[QUOTE]The kingdom of God is within you and all around you. It is not within buildings of wood or stone. Split a piece of wood and you will find me. Look beneath a stone and I am there. [QUOTE]
I believe that's from the Gospel of Thomas. (someone correct me if I'm wrong) In any case I agree with the quote above.
I don't like the idea of someone else telling you how to worship, where to worship, or who to believe in. Who are they stay say such things? Religion and God is such a personal experience. Your beliefs should come from the heart and from your life. Not from some book or preachers telling you it is so....sorry for rambling lol

my blanket statements are not really me judging people, but a summary of predominant traits I have experienced within said groups.

I actually have nothing to gain from judging an individual, but much to lose. I admit I am aggressive in countering the concept of christianity unlike any other religous belief due to my own experiences as one persecuted by christians. At the end of the day I am just as happy if you feel stronger in your religion or abandon your religion. So long as you question and find the answers on your own, that is all that matters.

life is too short for me to worry about other people's choices. I have enough to figure out on my own . Just so long as other people are not causing me harm with their beliefs I am quite content (and since I actually can say I have been influenced by everything I have interacted with, I can say I have learned from christianity as well - i learned to stand strong amid constant attack and not let myself be bullied around - a good lesson, although one I wish i didn't have to learn. if people were only more accepting of differences. we are more alike than different )

No Faeden,

As quicksand pointed out, there's is a counter for what you are claiming.

And WTF is this????



Jesus is a translation of His HEBREW NAME YESHUA. Where's the 'us' in that one? What about Jesus being God's SON don't you get.

Just because in your little NDE trip you didn't happen to see hell, does NOT mean there isn't one. MANY people have seen hell. It exists, and if you keep doubting it you may see it yourself one day.

Yes, God judges all. Man wasn't made for judgement. But in God's judgement, there indeed is a hell, and a Sheol. There's a Heaven too, but you have to be a good little cookie to get there. You people seem to think it's just divine right to get to Heaven. I tell you it's not. Before Jesus NO ONE, bar prophets EVER made it to Heaven. EVER. Consider yourselves lucky that now, because of Jesus, you get that chance. It's a chance. NOT a divine right.

God says to love all. God also has his own reasons, and he is the only one to have the power, to judge and bring people to death. If he sends his people to fight against another nation that is a threat, then he has his reasons. The love God speaks of is spiritual, not physical. I can love my enemies, but it doesn't mean I have to like them. And God does not tell us to slay everyone that is disobedient, because not even believers are perfect. He says punishment and judgement is his, and he will in his time.

As for "being good" to get into Heaven, is not true. It's a matter of believing or not. One sin to God is like a thousand. To God, killing a man is just as bad as telling a white lie. So even us believers are unholy sinners. Thanks to Jesus, though, we have the chance to believe and be saved. God says the only unforgivable sin is not believe. Also, I believe that we don't really enter Heaven. When we die, our souls rest until Judgement day. Then God creates New Jerusalem, for us believers. Perhaps some people will have the gift to enter Heaven, maybe all of us, but New Jerusalem is created for us.

And, before Jesus, there were people who were saved. Elijah was wisked away by a flaming chariot, straight to Heaven, he didn't have to die physically. Abraham was saved through his faith. Etc.

And yes, even us believers judge. It's human nature. But we don't (or at least I don't) claim to be perfect and not hypocritical. But often it's not being hypocritical, we are just preaching God's word. God wants us to do that, whether we have commited those sins or not. And then it is God talking, not us, and God doesn't sin, so it's nothing hypocritical at all. But saying that religious people are the most judgemental of all is wrong. Everybody judges everybody all the time. It's human nature.

Yes, you have a point about the sin vs believing. As I've said before, this is, and has been said by God to be a test of free will. Not just that, but that this test is to see 'Who among you race will love or abhor Me', which He said to Adam when He explained to him about his free will. Everyone sins (bar Jesus, etc), no matter what you believe, or how good you think you are. It's not about the sins, it's about devotion to God of your own free will.

Yes, Elijah was saved, he like Enoch became angels (and it is speculated were angels to begin with as these are the only two humans to have become angels), etc because they were prophets. I already said that.

Jesus changed the way souls were judged, thereby, He did become the 'doorway to Heaven', as no man before Him could reach it, bar prophets as I said. Jesus was also prophecized about in Enoch.

THEN WHY SAY IT! WHY SAY SLAY THEM BEFORE ME! Furthermore, I never stated that Jesus had them killed before him, just that he says one thing and then says another!


So, when I tell Jesus no, I will not slay them as you have commanded I am disobeying God, comitting a sin, and warranting death and eternity in hell.

You're splitting hairs. Read your bible. Grafting another interpetation upon it is blashempe!

JESUS SAID! JESUS SAID! JESUS SAID!

Otherwise all you're doing is making a special plead and can be therefore disregarded.

Jesus says to love your enemies, because one day, when all is said and done, and humanity no longer exists, and people are in their designated places, it's forgiveness and love of your enemies which will required of those in Heaven.

Tell me, all of you. If you made it to Heaven, and saw the punishments of those in hell, while they cry out to you, would you ask God for their forgiveness and release? Or would you tell them to get stuffed, that they deserve it, go rot a little more?

In one sentence you say this....But in a later sentence you say this....Real Christian like of you.

Good question Ashley. Very good question.

I always find it disgusting that these loving Christians will sit back with smug satisfaction and tell me how they will enjoy heaven while sinners burn in hell and in the same breathe assert to me God is a loving and omni-benevolent as well.

I say... what? If burning a sinner in hell for finite infractions is a act of omni-benevolence then the words good and benevolence have no meaning. Only a sadistic creature would torture you in a place like hell without a chance for sanctification and rehabilitation. The Christian in Heaven that prays to God to release the sinner from the burning pit of fires of hell is far more benevolent than God. And if God does release the sinner per the Christian in heaven then why did God even bother to take human form and be pinned upon a cross then, eh? So much that.

Ashley, there is a question however to be asked first.

Why existence?

If this God is so omni-benevolent and heaven is the best place for us all, why material existence? So that we may use our freewill and end up in hell? What is it with this God – a game?

More sadism.

Fortunately for humanity, such a being doesn't exist.

Looking at it from an NDE point of view, yes we go through a life review, a judgement so to speak, but it is done in a LOVING way. We are taught how our actions affected not only the other person but ourselves at the same time.
Everybody speaks of a loving god, and that is what it is.\
Flesh is the TEST of spirit.
There are many NDE accounts of life reviews...all of them LOVING. God does not judge us WE judge ourselves.

It was a question. I'm asking all of you. That there is one of the major question which differentiates those who will reach Heaven, and those who will not. It may not be the only factor but it's parts of it.



God had angels. They didn't have free will, i.e. the ability to chose to obey God or not. It wasn't something granted them. So God created a second angel, named him Adam, told him right from wrong. Told him about his free will. And when He did that, he said 'I will see who among you race loves or abhors Me'. That free will was a test of devotion to God through free will, not just obesiance. Hell exists because there are murderers and rapists, and because their victims scream for justice. But at the end of the day, when they've served their sentence, they more than likely reincarnate and are to fix what they did wrong the last time, again of their own free will. In the end, the final judgement, when the mortal testing ground of free will no longer exists, that won't be possible.

So, after that, I'm asking you, will you let them rot in hell, or will you ask God to forgive them?

An NDE does not see ALL there is to see. You can only see PART of it, and there have been just as many people see hell as there have been bright lights and Heaven. Kerry Packer was one of them.

Did you kill someone, rape someone, etc? Hopefully not. So, why then would you expect to see hell to begin with? You see where you are going, not everything.

Why angels then? Isn't your God omnipotent? Why does your God need little helpers? Is He too busy? If He's too busy administrating the universe and need little helpers, then he's not omnipotent.

Good point there Quick.

Do you see any kings without a kingdom? Angels are the majesties of that kingdom. The princes of it in fact. The original creation was without aid. God didn't need help, but since He also created angels, they were there to help.

The second created of those 'little helpers' incured mortality through the ignorance of not adhering to what they knew was good and bad. Those 'little helpers' were the parents of humanity.

Wow. Is it just me or is Little Miss Ashely star the meanest person on this board. Ex. Going off on Faeden. *tsk-tsk*



Where should I start on this one? Translation. Everything can be translated into their language. Faeden was using, the English version. In which alot of us here speak.

And the last paragraph.... And this is IF I did believe in Heaven and Hell. How does anyone know if before Jesus no one could get into heaven.... why billions of years before Jesus would anyone who followed God do anything good, because it wouldn't add up and they would end up in hell???!!? Why would they believe in him, if everything that they did good or bad would just give them a one way ticket to hell? Not likely. And another thing: I do concider myself Lucky... and it has nothing to do with God or Jesus.

Question though: Why do we pronounce Jesus as "Gee sus" when the same spelling name in Spanish it is pronounced "Hey Sus" ? jsut a question.

God is posited as omnipotent, yet he has angels to do his bidding. Why? For an omnipotent Being, Angels are superfluous and unnecessary. God would just do without another level of bureaucracy.

So either Angles are necessary and God is not omnipotent, or God does not exist and and Angles are running the Kingdom or running the Kingdom with God because God just can't get things done by himself.

Perhaps God has reindeer too?

And, if Angels are like Princes then God is like a King. Kings die. So God will Die and now one of his Angels will have to take over the reign of the kingdom according to heredity rites. LMAO!

Back to Quick's point....

Angels are Princes?!?!?! No princesses?!?!?! And I thought Jesus was the Prince?!?!?!!?!? To God=King.

Too much confusion in this cult. Too much anger and hate in this religion. What ever happened to peace and love? Oh I think that is Wicca or Pagaen or the mythological gods/religion.

OUCH!


Hi Free

my friend, this thing u call a cult is the truth and the ONLY way... there is no highway option... Wicca and Pagaen...i believe in a past post someone pointed out that these "religions" are new, compared to christianity, buddhism, islam....

Who knows why God made angels... do we know why he made water? or why he made snakes? NOPE... He just DID... and it is rediculous how even after God sent Jesus to die, that people still doubt the truth... Sorry, guys, but if u dont know Jesus personally, then those that dont will be going to hell...

just for an answer to the question being asked, If i saw those burning in Hell, i would ask God to forgive them, but just because ur forgiven dont mean u arent punished.... sorry but God provides the gift of salvation, u have to TAKE it to have it... u dont just get it.

\



Ashley
You have had an NDE, or so you claim, so you KNOW.
Yes you are correct that some people have had hellish NDE's but many who did found the experience enlightening, and they CHANGED their ways, which many did because god showed them through LOVE their actions.
Why have you not?????
Just because you had an NDE does not make you superior to everyone else.
If anything your NDE should have taught you the concept of UNIVERSAL love and spirituality.
Thats if you actually had one. On this point I have to question.

I think you have that backwards. Sorry.

You see everyone, Christians are generally more benevolent than their all loving God who would burn finite creatures that commit finite crimes for eternity!

Lover, first off, this point you raise "i believe in a past post someone pointed out that these "religions" are new, compared to" is nothing more than the fallacy of an Argumentum ad novitatem. Doesn't guarantee that your religion is not a cult and not any more "true."

Secondly, Angels are in direct contradiction to omnipotence of a Supreme Being that is held as omnipotent. You making another fallacious argument from ignorance. Shame. Shame.

Thirdly, God sent Jesus? God is Jesus. Jesus is God. They share the same "manhood" in other words.

So, what did god sacrifice being the same person again? LMAO

EDIT: Removed Post

Jesus is God, God is Jesus, so God sacrificed Himself, but if Jesus is God, then how did God, when jesus was baptised by John, say "this is my son, and i am pleased" ? answer me that...

sorry, zandore, if i was mistaken... must've read that particular post wrong.

according to the theory about cults... so that would mean that any religion or belief, or absence of thus, could be a cult also?

Gotcha. Changed the technical term for anatomy that I used orginally to "manhood" in the post above as not to offend our sensitive readers.

God sacrified himself you say? But God is omnipotent and eternal. That being the case, He'll live forever so he had nothing to lose by becoming Jesus and pinned up on the cross.

So what did he sacrifice again?

Anyway, so John baptises Jesus. Jesus is supposed to be perfect because he is God afterall, so this little exercise with John brings us two possible answers:

01. Jesus is and never was God. Not even a special son of. Just like you and me.

02. Jesus is God and God/Jesus/Sharing-the-Manhood isn't perfect therefore needs baptism to re-enter his own Kingdom. So much again for omnipotence.

i said God sacrificed Himself under what u said... Jesus is God in the trinity, but was a different life... He was the SON of GOD, JOHN 3:16

and baptism doesnt give salvation, baptism is what publicly announces that you are a believer... Jesus was baptised to publicly show who He was...

No need to apologize to me my friend. If you are not sure of something do not use this forum as reference. The info will have a slant on things from the person posting. This is natural. Use outside sources. Look it up to be sure.

okey dokey

Why a trinity? Why a Holy Casper the Ghost? Why a Son? God is omnipotent after all. The trinity doctrine is another violation of omnipotence. An omnipotent being does not need another level of bureaucracy, nor a multiplicity. To state otherwise removes all meaning from the word omnipotence.

Again as far as Jesus being baptized for publicity sake, why not a better and more tremendous exercise of power like a grand miracle? Why not turn everyone into frogs? Plenty of miracles in the NT anyway, why not something grand to really prove it. Jesus sure goes around and wilts enough fig trees, or driving demons into pigs into water to be drowned, why not people to into frogs? There's a sure demonstration of your Godly Power.

why didnt he save himself from the crucifiction? why dont God smite all those that disbelieve in Him? he does not need to prove himself to YOU nor anyone else... He does not need to show his power.... our life is enough proof of his power.

by that reasoning, all of us can claim to be gods.

And we exist in a natural world governed by natural laws and materialism. Your God is trespass of reality and can not logically exist. This is why you tell me to look to myself, to look to our own lives because our existence is at first necessary in order to believe that there is God in spite of rationalism and naturalism.

The gods only exist within our minds, without our lives, the gods would not exist.

u are reversed. withouth GOD, life sould not exist...

only if you believe so.... but then there must have been life to create this god. so again, without life there would be no gods

Is that so?

Life sould [sic] not exist? Your statement has room for doubt.
A more explicit statement would be: Life would not exist.

Even you are not convinced by your statement.

i meant would... my bad.. i was talkin to my girlfriend and typin and mustve typed what i said... oops.

God needs no life for existence... but Life needs God to be.