Everything dies.
Flowers given as an expression of friendship or love die. The birds that tweet in the trees overhead die. Our beloved pets - the sweet kitty cats and puppy dogs that we feed and pet and cuddle die. Friends we make and grow close to - sharing intimately our days of clueless existence die. Our parents and relatives - those who nurtured us and those who we grew up with, those who taught us right from wrong, and who gave us an anchor and a sense of belonging, die.
Great nations and empires die.
Planets teaming with life - some for perhaps billions of years - eventually, though some cataclysm or another, die.
Entire galaxies, filled with billions of brightly burning stars die.
According to many scientist our entire universe will someday burn out and die.
And, my question is: What is/was it all for?
Full Version: The meaning of it all?
so, you honestly think your going to get a valid answer?
42
-Post removed by request-
QUOTE(theSOURCE Posted Today @ 03:38 AM )
And, my question is: What is/was it all for?
A qustion that will never have an answer.QUOTE(SilverCougar Posted Today @ 06:03 AM )
42
QUOTE(Sir Christopher Posted Today @ 06:18 AM )
21
....10.5?
QUOTE
Everything dies.
but theSOURCE remains.
5.25
QUOTE(scipherel Posted Today @ 08:57 AM )
but theSOURCE remains.
True.2.625
good question. It's one that has been asked throughout the centuries. The answers have been many and varied. Perhaps, you should look inside for the answer. What influence on the world have you made? How will people think of you once you have passed the veil? Will you be remembered fondly? or with vitriol and venom? Only you can determine what mark and what meaning your life holds.
Just remember to LIVE your life before you depart this plane.
Just remember to LIVE your life before you depart this plane.
QUOTE
Just remember to LIVE your life before you depart this plane.
JPMD1, you are a very wise person!
QUOTE(theSOURCE @ Apr 8 2005, 02:38 AM)
Everything dies.
Flowers given as an expression of friendship or love die. The birds that tweet in the trees overhead die. Our beloved pets - the sweet kitty cats and puppy dogs that we feed and pet and cuddle die. Friends we make and grow close to - sharing intimately our days of clueless existence die. Our parents and relatives - those who nurtured us and those who we grew up with, those who taught us right from wrong, and who gave us an anchor and a sense of belonging, die.
Great nations and empires die.
Planets teaming with life - some for perhaps billions of years - eventually, though some cataclysm or another, die.
Entire galaxies, filled with billions of brightly burning stars die.
According to many scientist our entire universe will someday burn out and die.
And, my question is: What is/was it all for?
[right][snapback]562899[/snapback][/right]
The answers are not to be found in the mind of those Learned Ignoramuses who hide the one only truthful answer within the fascinating fallacies of their mind.
The truthful answer is hidden within that one only truth and that one only truth is true!
All else’s truth is relative, even if they believe it to be absolute!
This one only truthful answer is unknowable to those who ignore the relativity of their truth.
Thrice sings this assmoe song....
To What End
to what end do we
proceed so boldly
if all we are is
chemical reactions
and what world have you
deftly sold me
if you reduce me
if I have no soul to touch
no heart to love
no evil to rise up above
no angels and no ghosts
no real victories to toast
if you believe that this is true
then I must ask
to what end do you proceed
NO FIRE IN OUR EYES
NO STEEL IN OUR HEARTS
NO MAGIC IN OUR SONGS
ARE WE JUST EMPTY VESSELS
did I not feel your love
did I not feel your hate
and did my heart not beat
and did my heart not break
and are these tears for naught
and are these worlds in vain
if this is all we are then what
HAVE WE TO GAIN
What of all the art and books
music and poetry
What of all our memories
What of OUR HOPES AND DREAMS
They hold no value then
We hold no faith but greed
So I must ask you
To what end do we proceed?
To What End
to what end do we
proceed so boldly
if all we are is
chemical reactions
and what world have you
deftly sold me
if you reduce me
if I have no soul to touch
no heart to love
no evil to rise up above
no angels and no ghosts
no real victories to toast
if you believe that this is true
then I must ask
to what end do you proceed
NO FIRE IN OUR EYES
NO STEEL IN OUR HEARTS
NO MAGIC IN OUR SONGS
ARE WE JUST EMPTY VESSELS
did I not feel your love
did I not feel your hate
and did my heart not beat
and did my heart not break
and are these tears for naught
and are these worlds in vain
if this is all we are then what
HAVE WE TO GAIN
What of all the art and books
music and poetry
What of all our memories
What of OUR HOPES AND DREAMS
They hold no value then
We hold no faith but greed
So I must ask you
To what end do we proceed?
QUOTE(Uversa @ Apr 8 2005, 04:01 AM)
so, you honestly think your going to get a valid answer?
[right][snapback]562933[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]562933[/snapback][/right]
It all depends on your definition of 'valid.' In all sincerity, Uversa, I did not expect to find the all-encompassing answer to such a profound question on a simple internet forum.
However, I did find some of the responses to my query somewhat comforting and thought provoking. I've dealt with the death of several people in the past year - both relatives and friends - and I've been struggling to make sense of their meaning in this existence, as well as the loss I feel.
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Apr 8 2005, 09:01 AM)
good question. It's one that has been asked throughout the centuries. The answers have been many and varied. Perhaps, you should look inside for the answer. What influence on the world have you made? How will people think of you once you have passed the veil? Will you be remembered fondly? or with vitriol and venom? Only you can determine what mark and what meaning your life holds.
Just remember to LIVE your life before you depart this plane.
[right][snapback]563233[/snapback][/right]
Just remember to LIVE your life before you depart this plane.
[right][snapback]563233[/snapback][/right]
Thank you, JMPD1. I do agree with you in the importance of "leaving your mark" so to speak. I will always remember them dearly. I too, would like to be remembered for whatever good I've done.
OTOH, I don't mind being remembered as an @sshole to my enemies (well, not enemies..... just some jerks I know).
Unfortunately, the meaning of it all still eludes me. Whether one chooses to be remembered or not - or even cares- offers no explanation as to the meaning of all existence (and please don't bring up the science behind it. Myself and others - way more educated than I - have explained in this forum the scientific processes of how everything works and has come to be - but no one has ever been able to even touch the reason as to why it's all here).
QUOTE(Loge @ Apr 10 2005, 08:39 AM)
All else’s truth is relative, even if they believe it to be absolute!
[right][snapback]565892[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]565892[/snapback][/right]
Good point.
Whether you were kidding or not, Loge, truth really is subjective to one's point of view.
QUOTE(scipherel @ Apr 8 2005, 06:57 AM)
QUOTE
Everything dies.
but theSOURCE remains.
[right][snapback]563053[/snapback][/right]
Well.... Only as long as the mods don't block me from posting.
And, just to let you know, I am dealing with my loss a bit better these days.
Thank you, everyone.
1.3125
I have no idea.
there is no meaning beyond the meaning you construct of it.
there also need not be a meaning constructed of it.
there also need not be a meaning constructed of it.
3.1211212121212121212121212121212121212~
For me LIFE................ 
The Meaning of Life . . .
All things have been created through [Christ] and for [Christ]...
wWho are we? Why are we here? What is our purpose?
We look around ourselves and we find ourselves in a world full of wonderous thing and beautiful creatures, but apperantly without meaning. Why are we here and where how did we get here? And more importantly, what lies for us in the eternity after death?
Clearly modern science and philisophy cannot answer these and more important questions. Science, for all the neat gadgets we get out of the technological age, cannot explain the riddle of human consciousness. Why do animals breathe and feel and, in the case of humans, think? Why, as September 11 makes all the more clear, is mankind by nature self-seeking and evil? Why is there such a thing as absolute right and wrong? (I don't think you would argue with me here...can you honestly tell me that the kidnapping, molestation and killing of Samantha Runnion isn't inherantly WRONG? What if someone kidnapps and molests and kills YOU? Would you then run and clamor for JUSTICE?)
The sad thing is, the truth is available to all of us. But this world keeps us so busy, so caught up in our own trivial affairs that are of, in comparison, piddling importance, that we seldom ever stop to think about such really important issues. Humankind as a whole can be compared to a mouse on a treadmill, endlessly working and striving, taking one step only so that there can be a next step, and then another and then another, endless, pointless, and ultimately damning.
But where are we to turn for the answers to these questions? Luckily for us, there are answers, graciously supplied to us. But the answer isn't a mathematical formula, or a scientific equation, or a self-help book. The answer is a PERSON...and that person is Jesus Christ.
Who is Jesus Christ?
There is only one place to find out the real and true answer: The Bible. The bible is the authoritative and inerrant word of God, which He graciously granted us so that we may know Him. Our God is not a cold, indifferent God, but a compassionate and kind and gracious God who loves his people, and the bible is just one if His gifts to us.
But before we talk about what the bible says about Jesus, what does he say about the nature of man? Romans 1 tells us that the world is corrupt and fallen. Everybody KNOWS that there's a God, its obvious. But everyone has also sinned. The tragedy is that humankind has openly rebelled against the king and creator of the universe, because humanity loves sin, so much so that we even delude ourselves into thinking that there is no God (Just look around you! There's a God!), so that we would not be accountable for our sins. And because God is completely just, and He will leave no sin unpunished, all humanity is judged and sentenced...to an eternity of hell.
If that was the whole story, it would be a tragedy. But there is good news! What is that good news? Let's now go back and answer our question: Who is this Jesus Christ?
The bible tells us that God is by nature "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth, who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished" (Ex.34:6). God LOVED His world, but his justice demanded a punishment for the sins of the world. So what did He do? HE TOOK OUR PLACE. He came and became flesh, and lived a perfect life, so that He could die and place on HIMSELF all the punishment for our sins, the sentence that would have taken all eternity for us to serve. This is who Jesus Christ is ... the Son of God, God in flesh, and our savior.
But He didn't just die...on the third day after he died he rose again, because death could not conquer Him, showing that He WAS God.
So what does this mean for us? Well, just as Christ got what we deserved, the punishment for our sins, we can get what HE deserves for living his perfect, sinless life! God has no more wrath stored up for us, but instead He showers his grace and love upon his believers, now and for all eternity.
However, although this is a blessing purely by grace, this grace is not granted everybody, but only those who "believe in their hearts and confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord." God does not save the unrepenting, unbelieving sinner who does not want to be saved, does not acknowledge their true state, and willfully rejects the offer of salvation. But the good news is that whoever humbles himself, confesses his true sinful state, acknowledges that there is nothing he can do to save himself, and runs to Christ in repentence will be granted entrance into the kingdom of God, have their sins forgiven and be granted eternal life.
Beware, however, not all who claim the name of Christ is really a Christian. A person who truly is saved (and doesn't just give lip service to God, but is TRULY a Christian) is "born again," and is given new life spiritually. He has a longing to worship God, and manifests a life pattern of following His commandments, because he wants to honor the Lord who saved him. The genuinely saved man will thirst after giving God the honor he deserves, and his life is given meaning, purpose, not like the purposeless, meaningless strivings of the world. Such is the true meaning of life, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Thus, we can tell the true Christians from the impostors. But "the one who says 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 Jhn 2:4)
This is the gospel of salvation in a nutshell. If it sounds farfetched, that's okay, because that's the way God made it. "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor 1:21) He has hidden the truth from the wise and revealed it to His chosen people, so that no one may boast that they attained it by works, but only that it is given by grace.
There are many other wonderful spiritual realities that the bible tells us, and I cannot begin to do justice to the glorious realities of the gospel here.
The Meaning of Life . . .
All things have been created through [Christ] and for [Christ]...
wWho are we? Why are we here? What is our purpose?
We look around ourselves and we find ourselves in a world full of wonderous thing and beautiful creatures, but apperantly without meaning. Why are we here and where how did we get here? And more importantly, what lies for us in the eternity after death?
Clearly modern science and philisophy cannot answer these and more important questions. Science, for all the neat gadgets we get out of the technological age, cannot explain the riddle of human consciousness. Why do animals breathe and feel and, in the case of humans, think? Why, as September 11 makes all the more clear, is mankind by nature self-seeking and evil? Why is there such a thing as absolute right and wrong? (I don't think you would argue with me here...can you honestly tell me that the kidnapping, molestation and killing of Samantha Runnion isn't inherantly WRONG? What if someone kidnapps and molests and kills YOU? Would you then run and clamor for JUSTICE?)
The sad thing is, the truth is available to all of us. But this world keeps us so busy, so caught up in our own trivial affairs that are of, in comparison, piddling importance, that we seldom ever stop to think about such really important issues. Humankind as a whole can be compared to a mouse on a treadmill, endlessly working and striving, taking one step only so that there can be a next step, and then another and then another, endless, pointless, and ultimately damning.
But where are we to turn for the answers to these questions? Luckily for us, there are answers, graciously supplied to us. But the answer isn't a mathematical formula, or a scientific equation, or a self-help book. The answer is a PERSON...and that person is Jesus Christ.
Who is Jesus Christ?
There is only one place to find out the real and true answer: The Bible. The bible is the authoritative and inerrant word of God, which He graciously granted us so that we may know Him. Our God is not a cold, indifferent God, but a compassionate and kind and gracious God who loves his people, and the bible is just one if His gifts to us.
But before we talk about what the bible says about Jesus, what does he say about the nature of man? Romans 1 tells us that the world is corrupt and fallen. Everybody KNOWS that there's a God, its obvious. But everyone has also sinned. The tragedy is that humankind has openly rebelled against the king and creator of the universe, because humanity loves sin, so much so that we even delude ourselves into thinking that there is no God (Just look around you! There's a God!), so that we would not be accountable for our sins. And because God is completely just, and He will leave no sin unpunished, all humanity is judged and sentenced...to an eternity of hell.
If that was the whole story, it would be a tragedy. But there is good news! What is that good news? Let's now go back and answer our question: Who is this Jesus Christ?
The bible tells us that God is by nature "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth, who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished" (Ex.34:6). God LOVED His world, but his justice demanded a punishment for the sins of the world. So what did He do? HE TOOK OUR PLACE. He came and became flesh, and lived a perfect life, so that He could die and place on HIMSELF all the punishment for our sins, the sentence that would have taken all eternity for us to serve. This is who Jesus Christ is ... the Son of God, God in flesh, and our savior.
But He didn't just die...on the third day after he died he rose again, because death could not conquer Him, showing that He WAS God.
So what does this mean for us? Well, just as Christ got what we deserved, the punishment for our sins, we can get what HE deserves for living his perfect, sinless life! God has no more wrath stored up for us, but instead He showers his grace and love upon his believers, now and for all eternity.
However, although this is a blessing purely by grace, this grace is not granted everybody, but only those who "believe in their hearts and confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord." God does not save the unrepenting, unbelieving sinner who does not want to be saved, does not acknowledge their true state, and willfully rejects the offer of salvation. But the good news is that whoever humbles himself, confesses his true sinful state, acknowledges that there is nothing he can do to save himself, and runs to Christ in repentence will be granted entrance into the kingdom of God, have their sins forgiven and be granted eternal life.
Beware, however, not all who claim the name of Christ is really a Christian. A person who truly is saved (and doesn't just give lip service to God, but is TRULY a Christian) is "born again," and is given new life spiritually. He has a longing to worship God, and manifests a life pattern of following His commandments, because he wants to honor the Lord who saved him. The genuinely saved man will thirst after giving God the honor he deserves, and his life is given meaning, purpose, not like the purposeless, meaningless strivings of the world. Such is the true meaning of life, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Thus, we can tell the true Christians from the impostors. But "the one who says 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 Jhn 2:4)
This is the gospel of salvation in a nutshell. If it sounds farfetched, that's okay, because that's the way God made it. "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor 1:21) He has hidden the truth from the wise and revealed it to His chosen people, so that no one may boast that they attained it by works, but only that it is given by grace.
There are many other wonderful spiritual realities that the bible tells us, and I cannot begin to do justice to the glorious realities of the gospel here.
QUOTE(GuardianAngel @ Apr 11 2005, 09:22 PM)
For me LIFE................
The Meaning of Life . . .
All things have been created through [Christ] and for [Christ]...
wWho are we? Why are we here? What is our purpose?
We look around ourselves and we find ourselves in a world full of wonderous thing and beautiful creatures, but apperantly without meaning. Why are we here and where how did we get here? And more importantly, what lies for us in the eternity after death?
Clearly modern science and philisophy cannot answer these and more important questions. Science, for all the neat gadgets we get out of the technological age, cannot explain the riddle of human consciousness. Why do animals breathe and feel and, in the case of humans, think? Why, as September 11 makes all the more clear, is mankind by nature self-seeking and evil? Why is there such a thing as absolute right and wrong? (I don't think you would argue with me here...can you honestly tell me that the kidnapping, molestation and killing of Samantha Runnion isn't inherantly WRONG? What if someone kidnapps and molests and kills YOU? Would you then run and clamor for JUSTICE?)
The sad thing is, the truth is available to all of us. But this world keeps us so busy, so caught up in our own trivial affairs that are of, in comparison, piddling importance, that we seldom ever stop to think about such really important issues. Humankind as a whole can be compared to a mouse on a treadmill, endlessly working and striving, taking one step only so that there can be a next step, and then another and then another, endless, pointless, and ultimately damning.
But where are we to turn for the answers to these questions? Luckily for us, there are answers, graciously supplied to us. But the answer isn't a mathematical formula, or a scientific equation, or a self-help book. The answer is a PERSON...and that person is Jesus Christ.
Who is Jesus Christ?
There is only one place to find out the real and true answer: The Bible. The bible is the authoritative and inerrant word of God, which He graciously granted us so that we may know Him. Our God is not a cold, indifferent God, but a compassionate and kind and gracious God who loves his people, and the bible is just one if His gifts to us.
But before we talk about what the bible says about Jesus, what does he say about the nature of man? Romans 1 tells us that the world is corrupt and fallen. Everybody KNOWS that there's a God, its obvious. But everyone has also sinned. The tragedy is that humankind has openly rebelled against the king and creator of the universe, because humanity loves sin, so much so that we even delude ourselves into thinking that there is no God (Just look around you! There's a God!), so that we would not be accountable for our sins. And because God is completely just, and He will leave no sin unpunished, all humanity is judged and sentenced...to an eternity of hell.
If that was the whole story, it would be a tragedy. But there is good news! What is that good news? Let's now go back and answer our question: Who is this Jesus Christ?
The bible tells us that God is by nature "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth, who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished" (Ex.34:6). God LOVED His world, but his justice demanded a punishment for the sins of the world. So what did He do? HE TOOK OUR PLACE. He came and became flesh, and lived a perfect life, so that He could die and place on HIMSELF all the punishment for our sins, the sentence that would have taken all eternity for us to serve. This is who Jesus Christ is ... the Son of God, God in flesh, and our savior.
But He didn't just die...on the third day after he died he rose again, because death could not conquer Him, showing that He WAS God.
So what does this mean for us? Well, just as Christ got what we deserved, the punishment for our sins, we can get what HE deserves for living his perfect, sinless life! God has no more wrath stored up for us, but instead He showers his grace and love upon his believers, now and for all eternity.
However, although this is a blessing purely by grace, this grace is not granted everybody, but only those who "believe in their hearts and confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord." God does not save the unrepenting, unbelieving sinner who does not want to be saved, does not acknowledge their true state, and willfully rejects the offer of salvation. But the good news is that whoever humbles himself, confesses his true sinful state, acknowledges that there is nothing he can do to save himself, and runs to Christ in repentence will be granted entrance into the kingdom of God, have their sins forgiven and be granted eternal life.
Beware, however, not all who claim the name of Christ is really a Christian. A person who truly is saved (and doesn't just give lip service to God, but is TRULY a Christian) is "born again," and is given new life spiritually. He has a longing to worship God, and manifests a life pattern of following His commandments, because he wants to honor the Lord who saved him. The genuinely saved man will thirst after giving God the honor he deserves, and his life is given meaning, purpose, not like the purposeless, meaningless strivings of the world. Such is the true meaning of life, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Thus, we can tell the true Christians from the impostors. But "the one who says 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 Jhn 2:4)
This is the gospel of salvation in a nutshell. If it sounds farfetched, that's okay, because that's the way God made it. "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor 1:21) He has hidden the truth from the wise and revealed it to His chosen people, so that no one may boast that they attained it by works, but only that it is given by grace.
There are many other wonderful spiritual realities that the bible tells us, and I cannot begin to do justice to the glorious realities of the gospel here.
[right][snapback]568220[/snapback][/right]
The Meaning of Life . . .
All things have been created through [Christ] and for [Christ]...
wWho are we? Why are we here? What is our purpose?
We look around ourselves and we find ourselves in a world full of wonderous thing and beautiful creatures, but apperantly without meaning. Why are we here and where how did we get here? And more importantly, what lies for us in the eternity after death?
Clearly modern science and philisophy cannot answer these and more important questions. Science, for all the neat gadgets we get out of the technological age, cannot explain the riddle of human consciousness. Why do animals breathe and feel and, in the case of humans, think? Why, as September 11 makes all the more clear, is mankind by nature self-seeking and evil? Why is there such a thing as absolute right and wrong? (I don't think you would argue with me here...can you honestly tell me that the kidnapping, molestation and killing of Samantha Runnion isn't inherantly WRONG? What if someone kidnapps and molests and kills YOU? Would you then run and clamor for JUSTICE?)
The sad thing is, the truth is available to all of us. But this world keeps us so busy, so caught up in our own trivial affairs that are of, in comparison, piddling importance, that we seldom ever stop to think about such really important issues. Humankind as a whole can be compared to a mouse on a treadmill, endlessly working and striving, taking one step only so that there can be a next step, and then another and then another, endless, pointless, and ultimately damning.
But where are we to turn for the answers to these questions? Luckily for us, there are answers, graciously supplied to us. But the answer isn't a mathematical formula, or a scientific equation, or a self-help book. The answer is a PERSON...and that person is Jesus Christ.
Who is Jesus Christ?
There is only one place to find out the real and true answer: The Bible. The bible is the authoritative and inerrant word of God, which He graciously granted us so that we may know Him. Our God is not a cold, indifferent God, but a compassionate and kind and gracious God who loves his people, and the bible is just one if His gifts to us.
But before we talk about what the bible says about Jesus, what does he say about the nature of man? Romans 1 tells us that the world is corrupt and fallen. Everybody KNOWS that there's a God, its obvious. But everyone has also sinned. The tragedy is that humankind has openly rebelled against the king and creator of the universe, because humanity loves sin, so much so that we even delude ourselves into thinking that there is no God (Just look around you! There's a God!), so that we would not be accountable for our sins. And because God is completely just, and He will leave no sin unpunished, all humanity is judged and sentenced...to an eternity of hell.
If that was the whole story, it would be a tragedy. But there is good news! What is that good news? Let's now go back and answer our question: Who is this Jesus Christ?
The bible tells us that God is by nature "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth, who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished" (Ex.34:6). God LOVED His world, but his justice demanded a punishment for the sins of the world. So what did He do? HE TOOK OUR PLACE. He came and became flesh, and lived a perfect life, so that He could die and place on HIMSELF all the punishment for our sins, the sentence that would have taken all eternity for us to serve. This is who Jesus Christ is ... the Son of God, God in flesh, and our savior.
But He didn't just die...on the third day after he died he rose again, because death could not conquer Him, showing that He WAS God.
So what does this mean for us? Well, just as Christ got what we deserved, the punishment for our sins, we can get what HE deserves for living his perfect, sinless life! God has no more wrath stored up for us, but instead He showers his grace and love upon his believers, now and for all eternity.
However, although this is a blessing purely by grace, this grace is not granted everybody, but only those who "believe in their hearts and confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord." God does not save the unrepenting, unbelieving sinner who does not want to be saved, does not acknowledge their true state, and willfully rejects the offer of salvation. But the good news is that whoever humbles himself, confesses his true sinful state, acknowledges that there is nothing he can do to save himself, and runs to Christ in repentence will be granted entrance into the kingdom of God, have their sins forgiven and be granted eternal life.
Beware, however, not all who claim the name of Christ is really a Christian. A person who truly is saved (and doesn't just give lip service to God, but is TRULY a Christian) is "born again," and is given new life spiritually. He has a longing to worship God, and manifests a life pattern of following His commandments, because he wants to honor the Lord who saved him. The genuinely saved man will thirst after giving God the honor he deserves, and his life is given meaning, purpose, not like the purposeless, meaningless strivings of the world. Such is the true meaning of life, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Thus, we can tell the true Christians from the impostors. But "the one who says 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 Jhn 2:4)
This is the gospel of salvation in a nutshell. If it sounds farfetched, that's okay, because that's the way God made it. "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor 1:21) He has hidden the truth from the wise and revealed it to His chosen people, so that no one may boast that they attained it by works, but only that it is given by grace.
There are many other wonderful spiritual realities that the bible tells us, and I cannot begin to do justice to the glorious realities of the gospel here.
[right][snapback]568220[/snapback][/right]
How inspiring GardianAngel. Beautiful, Positively Beautiful!!!
QUOTE(GuardianAngel @ Apr 11 2005, 05:22 PM)
For me LIFE................
The Meaning of Life . . .
All things have been created through [Christ] and for [Christ]...
wWho are we? Why are we here? What is our purpose?
We look around ourselves and we find ourselves in a world full of wonderous thing and beautiful creatures, but apperantly without meaning. Why are we here and where how did we get here? And more importantly, what lies for us in the eternity after death?
Clearly modern science and philisophy cannot answer these and more important questions. Science, for all the neat gadgets we get out of the technological age, cannot explain the riddle of human consciousness. Why do animals breathe and feel and, in the case of humans, think? Why, as September 11 makes all the more clear, is mankind by nature self-seeking and evil? Why is there such a thing as absolute right and wrong? (I don't think you would argue with me here...can you honestly tell me that the kidnapping, molestation and killing of Samantha Runnion isn't inherantly WRONG? What if someone kidnapps and molests and kills YOU? Would you then run and clamor for JUSTICE?)
The Meaning of Life . . .
All things have been created through [Christ] and for [Christ]...
wWho are we? Why are we here? What is our purpose?
We look around ourselves and we find ourselves in a world full of wonderous thing and beautiful creatures, but apperantly without meaning. Why are we here and where how did we get here? And more importantly, what lies for us in the eternity after death?
Clearly modern science and philisophy cannot answer these and more important questions. Science, for all the neat gadgets we get out of the technological age, cannot explain the riddle of human consciousness. Why do animals breathe and feel and, in the case of humans, think? Why, as September 11 makes all the more clear, is mankind by nature self-seeking and evil? Why is there such a thing as absolute right and wrong? (I don't think you would argue with me here...can you honestly tell me that the kidnapping, molestation and killing of Samantha Runnion isn't inherantly WRONG? What if someone kidnapps and molests and kills YOU? Would you then run and clamor for JUSTICE?)
1 - philosphophy offers several answers to what you claim it can not. science as well provides many answers and more questions are answered every day
2 - i disagree. there are no absolutes at all. we create absolutes by placing paramaters.
3- human kind is like every other animal. it is self serving out of a desire to survive.
QUOTE(GuardianAngel @ Apr 11 2005, 05:22 PM)
The sad thing is, the truth is available to all of us. But this world keeps us so busy, so caught up in our own trivial affairs that are of, in comparison, piddling importance, that we seldom ever stop to think about such really important issues. Humankind as a whole can be compared to a mouse on a treadmill, endlessly working and striving, taking one step only so that there can be a next step, and then another and then another, endless, pointless, and ultimately damning.
But where are we to turn for the answers to these questions? Luckily for us, there are answers, graciously supplied to us. But the answer isn't a mathematical formula, or a scientific equation, or a self-help book. The answer is a PERSON...and that person is Jesus Christ.
Who is Jesus Christ?
There is only one place to find out the real and true answer: The Bible. The bible is the authoritative and inerrant word of God, which He graciously granted us so that we may know Him. Our God is not a cold, indifferent God, but a compassionate and kind and gracious God who loves his people, and the bible is just one if His gifts to us.
But where are we to turn for the answers to these questions? Luckily for us, there are answers, graciously supplied to us. But the answer isn't a mathematical formula, or a scientific equation, or a self-help book. The answer is a PERSON...and that person is Jesus Christ.
Who is Jesus Christ?
There is only one place to find out the real and true answer: The Bible. The bible is the authoritative and inerrant word of God, which He graciously granted us so that we may know Him. Our God is not a cold, indifferent God, but a compassionate and kind and gracious God who loves his people, and the bible is just one if His gifts to us.
in your opinion.
my answers do come from math and science, as well as philosophy, psychology, and nature. Descartes offers more answers to me than Jesus.
if the bible has the answers, then why did the one god of the bible issue a third book, the qur'an, with more information? going on the bible is like not reading the third book of a trilogy.
QUOTE(GuardianAngel @ Apr 11 2005, 05:22 PM)
But before we talk about what the bible says about Jesus, what does he say about the nature of man? Romans 1 tells us that the world is corrupt and fallen. Everybody KNOWS that there's a God, its obvious. But everyone has also sinned. The tragedy is that humankind has openly rebelled against the king and creator of the universe, because humanity loves sin, so much so that we even delude ourselves into thinking that there is no God (Just look around you! There's a God!), so that we would not be accountable for our sins. And because God is completely just, and He will leave no sin unpunished, all humanity is judged and sentenced...to an eternity of hell.
If that was the whole story, it would be a tragedy. But there is good news! What is that good news? Let's now go back and answer our question: Who is this Jesus Christ?
The bible tells us that God is by nature "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth, who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished" (Ex.34:6). God LOVED His world, but his justice demanded a punishment for the sins of the world. So what did He do? HE TOOK OUR PLACE. He came and became flesh, and lived a perfect life, so that He could die and place on HIMSELF all the punishment for our sins, the sentence that would have taken all eternity for us to serve. This is who Jesus Christ is ... the Son of God, God in flesh, and our savior.
But He didn't just die...on the third day after he died he rose again, because death could not conquer Him, showing that He WAS God.
So what does this mean for us? Well, just as Christ got what we deserved, the punishment for our sins, we can get what HE deserves for living his perfect, sinless life! God has no more wrath stored up for us, but instead He showers his grace and love upon his believers, now and for all eternity.
However, although this is a blessing purely by grace, this grace is not granted everybody, but only those who "believe in their hearts and confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord." God does not save the unrepenting, unbelieving sinner who does not want to be saved, does not acknowledge their true state, and willfully rejects the offer of salvation. But the good news is that whoever humbles himself, confesses his true sinful state, acknowledges that there is nothing he can do to save himself, and runs to Christ in repentence will be granted entrance into the kingdom of God, have their sins forgiven and be granted eternal life.
Beware, however, not all who claim the name of Christ is really a Christian. A person who truly is saved (and doesn't just give lip service to God, but is TRULY a Christian) is "born again," and is given new life spiritually. He has a longing to worship God, and manifests a life pattern of following His commandments, because he wants to honor the Lord who saved him. The genuinely saved man will thirst after giving God the honor he deserves, and his life is given meaning, purpose, not like the purposeless, meaningless strivings of the world. Such is the true meaning of life, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Thus, we can tell the true Christians from the impostors. But "the one who says 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 Jhn 2:4)
This is the gospel of salvation in a nutshell. If it sounds farfetched, that's okay, because that's the way God made it. "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor 1:21) He has hidden the truth from the wise and revealed it to His chosen people, so that no one may boast that they attained it by works, but only that it is given by grace.
There are many other wonderful spiritual realities that the bible tells us, and I cannot begin to do justice to the glorious realities of the gospel here.
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If that was the whole story, it would be a tragedy. But there is good news! What is that good news? Let's now go back and answer our question: Who is this Jesus Christ?
The bible tells us that God is by nature "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth, who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished" (Ex.34:6). God LOVED His world, but his justice demanded a punishment for the sins of the world. So what did He do? HE TOOK OUR PLACE. He came and became flesh, and lived a perfect life, so that He could die and place on HIMSELF all the punishment for our sins, the sentence that would have taken all eternity for us to serve. This is who Jesus Christ is ... the Son of God, God in flesh, and our savior.
But He didn't just die...on the third day after he died he rose again, because death could not conquer Him, showing that He WAS God.
So what does this mean for us? Well, just as Christ got what we deserved, the punishment for our sins, we can get what HE deserves for living his perfect, sinless life! God has no more wrath stored up for us, but instead He showers his grace and love upon his believers, now and for all eternity.
However, although this is a blessing purely by grace, this grace is not granted everybody, but only those who "believe in their hearts and confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord." God does not save the unrepenting, unbelieving sinner who does not want to be saved, does not acknowledge their true state, and willfully rejects the offer of salvation. But the good news is that whoever humbles himself, confesses his true sinful state, acknowledges that there is nothing he can do to save himself, and runs to Christ in repentence will be granted entrance into the kingdom of God, have their sins forgiven and be granted eternal life.
Beware, however, not all who claim the name of Christ is really a Christian. A person who truly is saved (and doesn't just give lip service to God, but is TRULY a Christian) is "born again," and is given new life spiritually. He has a longing to worship God, and manifests a life pattern of following His commandments, because he wants to honor the Lord who saved him. The genuinely saved man will thirst after giving God the honor he deserves, and his life is given meaning, purpose, not like the purposeless, meaningless strivings of the world. Such is the true meaning of life, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Thus, we can tell the true Christians from the impostors. But "the one who says 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 Jhn 2:4)
This is the gospel of salvation in a nutshell. If it sounds farfetched, that's okay, because that's the way God made it. "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor 1:21) He has hidden the truth from the wise and revealed it to His chosen people, so that no one may boast that they attained it by works, but only that it is given by grace.
There are many other wonderful spiritual realities that the bible tells us, and I cannot begin to do justice to the glorious realities of the gospel here.
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1- i know there is no "God"
2 - no man is a god
there is no meaning to life in believing in an afterlife or a god. Philosophy, logic, reasoning are the tools to the answers one seeks.
for me, the surest road to suicide would be to know some all powerful being as descibed in the bible existed.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 11 2005, 05:27 PM)
there is no meaning beyond the meaning you construct of it.
there also need not be a meaning constructed of it.
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there also need not be a meaning constructed of it.
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The conundrum lies in the fact that we as homo sapiens are the only species on this planet that are aware of our own mortality (of course this is based on scientific assumption - something that changes as regularly as the weather).
Therefore, if we as a species developed this awareness in the course of our natural evolutionary development (disregarding any form of divine intervention), then shouldn't the quest of determining 'why are we here?' be our utmost prerogative?
And, just to be flippant, do you ever get the feeling that someone out there is screwing with us?
QUOTE(theSOURCE @ Apr 11 2005, 07:55 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 11 2005, 05:27 PM)
there is no meaning beyond the meaning you construct of it.
there also need not be a meaning constructed of it.
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there also need not be a meaning constructed of it.
[right][snapback]568073[/snapback][/right]
The conundrum lies in the fact that we as homo sapiens are the only species on this planet that are aware of our own mortality (of course this is based on scientific assumption - something that changes as regularly as the weather).
Therefore, if we as a species developed this awareness in the course of our natural evolutionary development (disregarding any form of divine intervention), then shouldn't the quest of determining 'why are we here?' be our utmost prerogative?
And, just to be flippant, do you ever get the feeling that someone out there is screwing with us?
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the same reason there are those that have believed in gods....
at a more juvinile level (evolutionarily and developmentally speaking), there is more a need to have order and understanding thrust upon the life, universe and everything.
at an intermediary level, the absoluteness is released, and partial self awareness is achieved.
at the point of full self awareness, there is no need to seek answers because the answers already lie within you.
sounds like a conundrum, sorry. (and sorry for simplifying it to only 3 stages)
it is sort of like the old saying "when i do not know who i am i serve you, when i know who i am i am you"
-Post removed by request-
Why do you see everything as death or dying? There is no death, there is only birth--to another level 
So the question should be: 'What is the meaning of all this birth? Where will it lead us? What do we hope for?
84
This may be interesting to some of you:
http://lightworker.com/beacons/021505KeepersSecret.htm
So the question should be: 'What is the meaning of all this birth? Where will it lead us? What do we hope for?
84
This may be interesting to some of you:
http://lightworker.com/beacons/021505KeepersSecret.htm
With all the havoc earlier on this forum I think this is just.
42
QUOTE(~ Keeper's Secret ~)
It is with the greatest joy that we ask you to treat each other with respect, nurture one another at every opportunity, re-member that it is a game you are playing, and enjoy the joyful journey. Play well together.
Good things at that web site Tricia.42
QUOTE(theSOURCE @ Apr 8 2005, 03:38 AM)
Everything dies.
Flowers given as an expression of friendship or love die. The birds that tweet in the trees overhead die. Our beloved pets - the sweet kitty cats and puppy dogs that we feed and pet and cuddle die. Friends we make and grow close to - sharing intimately our days of clueless existence die. Our parents and relatives - those who nurtured us and those who we grew up with, those who taught us right from wrong, and who gave us an anchor and a sense of belonging, die.
Great nations and empires die.
Planets teaming with life - some for perhaps billions of years - eventually, though some cataclysm or another, die.
Entire galaxies, filled with billions of brightly burning stars die.
According to many scientist our entire universe will someday burn out and die.
And, my question is: What is/was it all for?
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Flowers given as an expression of friendship or love die. The birds that tweet in the trees overhead die. Our beloved pets - the sweet kitty cats and puppy dogs that we feed and pet and cuddle die. Friends we make and grow close to - sharing intimately our days of clueless existence die. Our parents and relatives - those who nurtured us and those who we grew up with, those who taught us right from wrong, and who gave us an anchor and a sense of belonging, die.
Great nations and empires die.
Planets teaming with life - some for perhaps billions of years - eventually, though some cataclysm or another, die.
Entire galaxies, filled with billions of brightly burning stars die.
According to many scientist our entire universe will someday burn out and die.
And, my question is: What is/was it all for?
[right][snapback]562899[/snapback][/right]
The answer to this question exists, and can be answered, but not by us. In my theory of balance, the answer to this and other seemingly impossible to answer question lies in neutral/paradox. Its out there but it's too great for us to comprehend. WE exist, seemingly, to strive towards perfection, and by doing that, learn what lies within paradox, X, or whatever other name you give the incomprehendable. We can't achieve perfection, because then there is no imperfection to balance it out. We can never achieve paradox by perfection or imperfection, because one of them is left out. That is why we can never find these answers.
But, my answer to the question, less philosophically, is that although everything dies, everything is reborn. Scientists may say the universe will even die, but scientists [especially ones who follow the universal rift theory, like light and dark which can be found in Popular Science] also say that the universe will be reborn. Life and death is an endless cycle, and part of another thing we can never truely comprehend: time.
Always let these answers nag at you, but instead of wasting away, trying to find something you will never achieve, find the answers you cannot yet find within yourself, because I can bet you there are plenty of those, and those CAN be solved. Once you learn how the world really works, you can just let questions like "Why is there life?" remain in the back of your mind, and only amusing to ponder about, because you know why we can never find the answer. You can find part of the answer, though, knowing HOW life works, but not WHY. There is no WHY, there simply IS.
Glad you like it Zandore, we forget that this is a game. Wasn't it Shakespeare who said 'Life is just a stage and the people merely players'?
Raven-don't complicate life, it is a journey of discovery so enjoy the travelling.
'It is better to journey than to arrive' Now who said that?
Raven-don't complicate life, it is a journey of discovery so enjoy the travelling.
'It is better to journey than to arrive' Now who said that?
[A personal view.
Loge has a signature quote that I agree with completely, with the following change:
Ere the foundations of the earth were laid,
I was. And when the subterranean flame
Shall burst its prison and devour the frame
I shalt be still as I was before
And knew no change...
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
And that Basic Truth that Loge referred to, for me personally, is this:
I am me. Regardless of where I may ever have been, or ever will be, in whatever condition, with or without a body, a name, or any identity at all, I have always been and always will be me. From this basic all else proceeds.
Loge has a signature quote that I agree with completely, with the following change:
Ere the foundations of the earth were laid,
I was. And when the subterranean flame
Shall burst its prison and devour the frame
I shalt be still as I was before
And knew no change...
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
And that Basic Truth that Loge referred to, for me personally, is this:
I am me. Regardless of where I may ever have been, or ever will be, in whatever condition, with or without a body, a name, or any identity at all, I have always been and always will be me. From this basic all else proceeds.
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 13 2005, 02:06 PM)
[A personal view.
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
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We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
[right][snapback]571053[/snapback][/right]
interesting, but where is the evidence of this immortality?
that description made me think of one of my favorite movies: Highlander.
QUOTE(SilverCougar @ Apr 8 2005, 10:03 AM)
42
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hah. right on silver.can't wait for the movie to come out this month
QUOTE(theSOURCE @ Apr 8 2005, 06:38 PM)
Everything dies.
Flowers given as an expression of friendship or love die. The birds that tweet in the trees overhead die. Our beloved pets - the sweet kitty cats and puppy dogs that we feed and pet and cuddle die. Friends we make and grow close to - sharing intimately our days of clueless existence die. Our parents and relatives - those who nurtured us and those who we grew up with, those who taught us right from wrong, and who gave us an anchor and a sense of belonging, die.
Great nations and empires die.
Planets teaming with life - some for perhaps billions of years - eventually, though some cataclysm or another, die.
Entire galaxies, filled with billions of brightly burning stars die.
According to many scientist our entire universe will someday burn out and die.
And, my question is: What is/was it all for?
[right][snapback]562899[/snapback][/right]
Flowers given as an expression of friendship or love die. The birds that tweet in the trees overhead die. Our beloved pets - the sweet kitty cats and puppy dogs that we feed and pet and cuddle die. Friends we make and grow close to - sharing intimately our days of clueless existence die. Our parents and relatives - those who nurtured us and those who we grew up with, those who taught us right from wrong, and who gave us an anchor and a sense of belonging, die.
Great nations and empires die.
Planets teaming with life - some for perhaps billions of years - eventually, though some cataclysm or another, die.
Entire galaxies, filled with billions of brightly burning stars die.
According to many scientist our entire universe will someday burn out and die.
And, my question is: What is/was it all for?
[right][snapback]562899[/snapback][/right]
You may just dont realise it, but the answers your looking for actually exist in your own questions.
Matters are born, then die. But they are all born for a reason. The flowers, to provide food for insects that in turn provide something for nature that in turn provide food for other insects and humans.
The sun, to provide warmth, to provide growth for living matters, to provide energy, to provide a gravitational field to keep planets within a solar system.
great nations and empires, to provide a governing body to civilise humans, to carry on laws, beliefs and Philosophies so us humans question "why" all the time, to influence one or many other nations, provide either peace or war with other nations that in turn provide through sacrifice learning, understanding and peace.
even an entire galaxy, to house all of these reasons that are all interlink with one another.
Nothing in this world or universe is born for no reason. Everything and anything has a reason to live.
Think about it.
And for us humans we have our reasons to be born, to live and to die.
Some may realise it, some might not, some may abuse it, some might ignore it.
Either way, there is a reason for everything.
I know my reasons to live. so when i die, i die a happy man, coz ive done what im supposed to do in this world and not once would have questioned it.
Do you?
hey, the only advise I can offer is don't worry about things you can't hope to answer. All it does is cause uneeded suffering within yourself, don't sweat it. You'll find out what's up when ya croak thats all you need to know.
Don't forget the moon!
Don't forget the moon!
I believe the meaning of life and everything is probably so simple that we dont even see it. To me its the little things in life like a baby's smile, nature, the sky, friends, family and loved ones. I believe that this planet is our school and we were put here to learn and grow and enjoy it. The things that really matter are loving and being loved by others because that and the knowledge you carry are the only things you can take with you into the spirit realms. We are like caterpillars here and our bodies are just a shell there is no eternal death only a metamorphosis into butterflies. So death in this world is not the end, it makes room for new beginnings.Blessings,Jo
Life was designed to give true meaning, through hands on experience, to the 'Word'---all that is known and will be---otherwise all that wisdom is meaningless!
OR-proving the pudding through the eating
OR-proving the pudding through the eating
Well that is the meaning of life question, so sorry...i dont have a clue! 
QUOTE(Tricia-Ann)
'life is just a stage and the people merely players'?
Yes, something like that, in "The Seven Ages of Man" -- a sonnet.
QUOTE(Tricia-Ann)
Raven-don't complicate life, it is a journey of discovery so enjoy the travelling.
I'm not complicating life, I'm understanding it. People should stop pondering meaningless questions and learn about themselves, atleast before trying to go back to them. I made my balance theory [FOUND HERE] to help me understand and become less paranoid about simple things. The theory in itself is very simple and has many shapes and forms that have been done before, and will be done, but it always works.
For example, I'm not 100% sure on it yet, but everything in existance can be logically reduced to 3, or illogically reduced to 1. For example, if I have a 213 sided shape, I can reduce it to a triangle, the lowest multi-angular shape possible [3] or reduce it to a circle, which is just one. This can go on for infinity, because then I can reduce the circle. There is the shape as a whole, the line forming the shape, and the space inside. This makes 3. I can then go on and on again reducing those. 3 is a very important number, because, for example, it stands for 3 elements or forces in whatever way you see them: Good, Evil, Neutral -- Black, White, Gray -- Red, Yellow, Blue [Primary colors] -- Orange, Violet, Green [Secondary colors] and so on. [1, 3 and all of those colors are in my avatar, by the way]
So, in essence, this question can ALSO be reduced to an illogical 1 part, or logical 3 part. For instance, things are BORN [1], then LIVE [2], and DIE [3]. Those make up 3 parts of a journey, but they can also all be reduced to 1 part, which is EXISTANCE.
Does anyone but myself understand this theory?
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 13 2005, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 13 2005, 02:06 PM)
[A personal view.
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
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We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
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interesting, but where is the evidence of this immortality?
that description made me think of one of my favorite movies: Highlander.
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I could point out that nearly every civilization and belief system from ancient times to the present has subscribed to this idea in one form or another, but one's own immortality, and very existence as a spiritual, non-physical entity, is a very subjective reality, and ultimately a matter of one's own perception and awareness. This fundamental truth is what Gautama Siddhartha (Buddha) realized through meditation, and any qualified Buddhist monk today would attest to the same thing with absolute subjective certainty. (It was this knowledge and their certainty of it which enabled Bhuddist monks in Saigon to calmly douse themselves with gasoline and set themselves ablaze to protest the Diem government back in '65, all the while maintaining a sedate demeanor until their bodies were consumed.)
Besides meditation there are other things that can raise awareness, or more precisely, assist one in raising his own. A good fast will take you in the right direction if you stay with it long enough. That's why the ancients practiced it. After one passes the intense hunger phase, the difference in one's self and one's body becomes quite apparent.
Near-death experiences almost always result in a person's certainty that he is himself and not his body.
Personally, I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew I was an immortal spiritual being, only temporarily inhabiting a body, but then I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew the truth about Santa Claus either. One day, I just knew.
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 14 2005, 11:24 AM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 13 2005, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 13 2005, 02:06 PM)
[A personal view.
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
[right][snapback]571053[/snapback][/right]
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
[right][snapback]571053[/snapback][/right]
interesting, but where is the evidence of this immortality?
that description made me think of one of my favorite movies: Highlander.
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I could point out that nearly every civilization and belief system from ancient times to the present has subscribed to this idea in one form or another, but one's own immortality, and very existence as a spiritual, non-physical entity, is a very subjective reality, and ultimately a matter of one's own perception and awareness. This fundamental truth is what Gautama Siddhartha (Buddha) realized through meditation, and any qualified Buddhist monk today would attest to the same thing with absolute subjective certainty. (It was this knowledge and their certainty of it which enabled Bhuddist monks in Saigon to calmly douse themselves with gasoline and set themselves ablaze to protest the Diem government back in '65, all the while maintaining a sedate demeanor until their bodies were consumed.)
Besides meditation there are other things that can raise awareness, or more precisely, assist one in raising his own. A good fast will take you in the right direction if you stay with it long enough. That's why the ancients practiced it. After one passes the intense hunger phase, the difference in one's self and one's body becomes quite apparent.
Near-death experiences almost always result in a person's certainty that he is himself and not his body.
Personally, I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew I was an immortal spiritual being, only temporarily inhabiting a body, but then I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew the truth about Santa Claus either. One day, I just knew.
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it can all be argued to stem from a fear of death. It is impossible to truly imagine not existing, hence the concept of forever existing was born.
Meditation does indeed take you to a higher level of awareness, but it does not remove the reality of this existence, or support the idea of existence beyond the life of the body.
NDE can be completely explained by brain function during the experience.
When I was young i did fasting. It does not take you anyplace special (and should not be done unless you know what you are getting into - of course the same can be said of meditation even though I don't accept the idea of self consumption
)
Perhaps everyone just needs to read "Life, the Universe and Everything" by Douglas Adams
And of course have some Amburgers and Wootbeer
Amburgers and Wootbeer!
And of course have some Amburgers and Wootbeer
Amburgers and Wootbeer!
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 14 2005, 04:52 PM)
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 14 2005, 11:24 AM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 13 2005, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 13 2005, 02:06 PM)
[A personal view.
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
[right][snapback]571053[/snapback][/right]
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
[right][snapback]571053[/snapback][/right]
interesting, but where is the evidence of this immortality?
that description made me think of one of my favorite movies: Highlander.
[right][snapback]571069[/snapback][/right]
I could point out that nearly every civilization and belief system from ancient times to the present has subscribed to this idea in one form or another, but one's own immortality, and very existence as a spiritual, non-physical entity, is a very subjective reality, and ultimately a matter of one's own perception and awareness. This fundamental truth is what Gautama Siddhartha (Buddha) realized through meditation, and any qualified Buddhist monk today would attest to the same thing with absolute subjective certainty. (It was this knowledge and their certainty of it which enabled Bhuddist monks in Saigon to calmly douse themselves with gasoline and set themselves ablaze to protest the Diem government back in '65, all the while maintaining a sedate demeanor until their bodies were consumed.)
Besides meditation there are other things that can raise awareness, or more precisely, assist one in raising his own. A good fast will take you in the right direction if you stay with it long enough. That's why the ancients practiced it. After one passes the intense hunger phase, the difference in one's self and one's body becomes quite apparent.
Near-death experiences almost always result in a person's certainty that he is himself and not his body.
Personally, I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew I was an immortal spiritual being, only temporarily inhabiting a body, but then I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew the truth about Santa Claus either. One day, I just knew.
[right][snapback]572423[/snapback][/right]
it can all be argued to stem from a fear of death. It is impossible to truly imagine not existing, hence the concept of forever existing was born.
Meditation does indeed take you to a higher level of awareness, but it does not remove the reality of this existence, or support the idea of existence beyond the life of the body.
NDE can be completely explained by brain function during the experience.
When I was young i did fasting. It does not take you anyplace special (and should not be done unless you know what you are getting into - of course the same can be said of meditation even though I don't accept the idea of self consumption
)[right][snapback]572578[/snapback][/right]
Apparently your meditative and fasting experiences were different from mine, but as I said, the reality of one's own spiritual nature is completely subjective. If you have never experienced anything that reveals this to you, then you haven't. Perhaps you will someday. Obviously there are many in this world who never do, else they wouldn't behave like animals. Being aware of oneself as a spiritual being separate from one's body doesn't necessitate checking one's intellect at the door. Spirits just don't fit under microscopes very well.
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 14 2005, 03:51 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 14 2005, 04:52 PM)
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 14 2005, 11:24 AM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 13 2005, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 13 2005, 02:06 PM)
[A personal view.
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
[right][snapback]571053[/snapback][/right]
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
[right][snapback]571053[/snapback][/right]
interesting, but where is the evidence of this immortality?
that description made me think of one of my favorite movies: Highlander.
[right][snapback]571069[/snapback][/right]
I could point out that nearly every civilization and belief system from ancient times to the present has subscribed to this idea in one form or another, but one's own immortality, and very existence as a spiritual, non-physical entity, is a very subjective reality, and ultimately a matter of one's own perception and awareness. This fundamental truth is what Gautama Siddhartha (Buddha) realized through meditation, and any qualified Buddhist monk today would attest to the same thing with absolute subjective certainty. (It was this knowledge and their certainty of it which enabled Bhuddist monks in Saigon to calmly douse themselves with gasoline and set themselves ablaze to protest the Diem government back in '65, all the while maintaining a sedate demeanor until their bodies were consumed.)
Besides meditation there are other things that can raise awareness, or more precisely, assist one in raising his own. A good fast will take you in the right direction if you stay with it long enough. That's why the ancients practiced it. After one passes the intense hunger phase, the difference in one's self and one's body becomes quite apparent.
Near-death experiences almost always result in a person's certainty that he is himself and not his body.
Personally, I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew I was an immortal spiritual being, only temporarily inhabiting a body, but then I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew the truth about Santa Claus either. One day, I just knew.
[right][snapback]572423[/snapback][/right]
it can all be argued to stem from a fear of death. It is impossible to truly imagine not existing, hence the concept of forever existing was born.
Meditation does indeed take you to a higher level of awareness, but it does not remove the reality of this existence, or support the idea of existence beyond the life of the body.
NDE can be completely explained by brain function during the experience.
When I was young i did fasting. It does not take you anyplace special (and should not be done unless you know what you are getting into - of course the same can be said of meditation even though I don't accept the idea of self consumption
)[right][snapback]572578[/snapback][/right]
Apparently your meditative and fasting experiences were different from mine, but as I said, the reality of one's own spiritual nature is completely subjective. If you have never experienced anything that reveals this to you, then you haven't. Perhaps you will someday. Obviously there are many in this world who never do, else they wouldn't behave like animals. Being aware of oneself as a spiritual being separate from one's body doesn't necessitate checking one's intellect at the door. Spirits just don't fit under microscopes very well.
[right][snapback]572735[/snapback][/right]
i reached self awareness. part of that awareness was that there is no "higher power" that is conscious. We exist in the now, and that is it. It does have impact on my understandings of the interconnectedness of everything (but again, i revert to science to give the solid expanations.) meditation directs thought, which then is channeled into study and understanding.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 14 2005, 07:17 PM)
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 14 2005, 03:51 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 14 2005, 04:52 PM)
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 14 2005, 11:24 AM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 13 2005, 05:20 PM)
QUOTE(Runrun @ Apr 13 2005, 02:06 PM)
[A personal view.
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
[right][snapback]571053[/snapback][/right]
We are all immortal spiritual beings, and immortality stretches endlessly into the past as well as the future. The downside of immortality is that sooner or later, regardless of how many eons one is content to just Be, eventually it gets boring. Thus games are created. This particular one is Life, and the universe we perceive is the playing field. The prize in this game is the experience of aesthetics, i.e. beauty, love, or whatever an individual considers to be aesthetically pleasing. The penalty, of course, is the opposite. Spiritual beings enter this physical game at the risk of all the misery that is possible in Life for the same reason athletes risk injury...to participate, and possibly obtain the prize.
[right][snapback]571053[/snapback][/right]
interesting, but where is the evidence of this immortality?
that description made me think of one of my favorite movies: Highlander.
[right][snapback]571069[/snapback][/right]
I could point out that nearly every civilization and belief system from ancient times to the present has subscribed to this idea in one form or another, but one's own immortality, and very existence as a spiritual, non-physical entity, is a very subjective reality, and ultimately a matter of one's own perception and awareness. This fundamental truth is what Gautama Siddhartha (Buddha) realized through meditation, and any qualified Buddhist monk today would attest to the same thing with absolute subjective certainty. (It was this knowledge and their certainty of it which enabled Bhuddist monks in Saigon to calmly douse themselves with gasoline and set themselves ablaze to protest the Diem government back in '65, all the while maintaining a sedate demeanor until their bodies were consumed.)
Besides meditation there are other things that can raise awareness, or more precisely, assist one in raising his own. A good fast will take you in the right direction if you stay with it long enough. That's why the ancients practiced it. After one passes the intense hunger phase, the difference in one's self and one's body becomes quite apparent.
Near-death experiences almost always result in a person's certainty that he is himself and not his body.
Personally, I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew I was an immortal spiritual being, only temporarily inhabiting a body, but then I can't pinpoint the exact moment I knew the truth about Santa Claus either. One day, I just knew.
[right][snapback]572423[/snapback][/right]
it can all be argued to stem from a fear of death. It is impossible to truly imagine not existing, hence the concept of forever existing was born.
Meditation does indeed take you to a higher level of awareness, but it does not remove the reality of this existence, or support the idea of existence beyond the life of the body.
NDE can be completely explained by brain function during the experience.
When I was young i did fasting. It does not take you anyplace special (and should not be done unless you know what you are getting into - of course the same can be said of meditation even though I don't accept the idea of self consumption
)[right][snapback]572578[/snapback][/right]
Apparently your meditative and fasting experiences were different from mine, but as I said, the reality of one's own spiritual nature is completely subjective. If you have never experienced anything that reveals this to you, then you haven't. Perhaps you will someday. Obviously there are many in this world who never do, else they wouldn't behave like animals. Being aware of oneself as a spiritual being separate from one's body doesn't necessitate checking one's intellect at the door. Spirits just don't fit under microscopes very well.
[right][snapback]572735[/snapback][/right]
i reached self awareness. part of that awareness was that there is no "higher power" that is conscious. We exist in the now, and that is it. It does have impact on my understandings of the interconnectedness of everything (but again, i revert to science to give the solid expanations.) meditation directs thought, which then is channeled into study and understanding.
[right][snapback]572795[/snapback][/right]
I just said I was aware of myself as a spiritual entity. I don't know about a 'higher power that is concious'. As for meditation directing thought that is channeled into study and understanding, I can see that.
First of all I suggest you Google it and wind up at this site: The Meaning of Life
Then I would suggest that the meaning of life is to discover the meaning of YOUR life! But don't focus too much on finding the one ultimate truth right away, the true answers will only find you when you're out living your life. It's like when you go looking around your house to find the T.V. changer and accidental discover a favorite beloved object you lost long ago instead, like a favorite childhood toy, lefty on a good pair of shoes, or old classic Zelda nintendo cartridge!
Thats the meaning of life, searching for something we all lost long ago. Return to the source.
Then I would suggest that the meaning of life is to discover the meaning of YOUR life! But don't focus too much on finding the one ultimate truth right away, the true answers will only find you when you're out living your life. It's like when you go looking around your house to find the T.V. changer and accidental discover a favorite beloved object you lost long ago instead, like a favorite childhood toy, lefty on a good pair of shoes, or old classic Zelda nintendo cartridge!
Thats the meaning of life, searching for something we all lost long ago. Return to the source.
I'd begun to compile a list of posts I was going to respond to when I noticed a common theme linking them all together. And that was, in essence, that the meaning of life is what one makes it out to be.
I find that answer somewhat disturbing.
Essentially, it gives the right to every individual to decide whether life is meaningless, and there by allowing such individuals the right to commit acts of murder and the destruction of the environment with moral impunity, or whether life is much too precious, and must be controlled to the point of denying themselves, as well as others, natural biological traits and needs. Of course these are both extreme examples, and no one here subscribes to them (I hope).
And as far as self awareness is concerned, hey, I'm here and now. Forgive me for being so facetious, but deeper self awareness is only a study in one's own existence, and not the existence of all humankind (and before anyone offers an argument, consider this: it's like reading a single book, then claiming to know the contents of an entire library).
We've all been given the choice as to how we want to live our lives, but the question remains: Why were we given that choice?
A wise man finds solace in his philosophy like a drunk finds solace in his booze. Yet neither can answer the question to the meaning of life.
In all honesty, if I am truly the master of my own universe, then I really suck at being a God. If I really had my way, I'd have billions in my bank account, dozens of women at my beck and call, and no friggin taxes to pay.
But most important of all, I'd make sure that my love ones who have passed on know that I love them still.
I find that answer somewhat disturbing.
Essentially, it gives the right to every individual to decide whether life is meaningless, and there by allowing such individuals the right to commit acts of murder and the destruction of the environment with moral impunity, or whether life is much too precious, and must be controlled to the point of denying themselves, as well as others, natural biological traits and needs. Of course these are both extreme examples, and no one here subscribes to them (I hope).
And as far as self awareness is concerned, hey, I'm here and now. Forgive me for being so facetious, but deeper self awareness is only a study in one's own existence, and not the existence of all humankind (and before anyone offers an argument, consider this: it's like reading a single book, then claiming to know the contents of an entire library).
We've all been given the choice as to how we want to live our lives, but the question remains: Why were we given that choice?
A wise man finds solace in his philosophy like a drunk finds solace in his booze. Yet neither can answer the question to the meaning of life.
In all honesty, if I am truly the master of my own universe, then I really suck at being a God. If I really had my way, I'd have billions in my bank account, dozens of women at my beck and call, and no friggin taxes to pay.
But most important of all, I'd make sure that my love ones who have passed on know that I love them still.
QUOTE
We've all been given the choice as to how we want to live our lives, but the question remains: Why were we given that choice?
a fluke of evolution....
or do we have so much choice at all? born free and then enchained... our perceptions and experiences (real or imagined) limit us more than anything.
man dreams of being more? or does he? man seeks solice and comfort, safety and survival. man creates god, man blames god, man is free?
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 15 2005, 07:59 PM)
QUOTE
We've all been given the choice as to how we want to live our lives, but the question remains: Why were we given that choice?
a fluke of evolution....
or do we have so much choice at all? born free and then enchained... our perceptions and experiences (real or imagined) limit us more than anything.
man dreams of being more? or does he? man seeks solice and comfort, safety and survival. man creates god, man blames god, man is free?
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Poor choice of wording on my part.
We, human kind, believe that we are living our own chosen paths. Though our minds have been structured through moral, religious, or social doctrines, we all have the realization that we can either chose to remain "loyal to the pack" or break away and become iconoclasts.
I've grasped your point. My reference to "freedom of choice" may only exist within each individuals mind, but it also strengthens my argument. And that is that no individuals point of view can fully answer the question to the meaning of our existence.
However, that does not mean that there isn't an answer to the question.
QUOTE
And that is that no individuals point of view can fully answer the question to the meaning of our existence.
so long as we seek a subjective meaning, you are correct.
we don't seek an objcective meaning because we can't accept the mondainess of it.
objectively speaking, we are but parts of a system. We are nothing in the grand scheme, for the system will adapt to our disappearance (individual or the entire species).
i know people that absolutely hate a systems approach because it can be used to define nothing as mattering. ex) WW2: the west going to war against germany is irrelevent since the nazis would have eventually collapsed and a new order would have arisen. We can not objectively say if the outcome of not going to war would have been better or worse. We can say the system would have eventually balanced out, and the # of people that died in either scenario is irrelevent.
(don't get riled by that example please)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 15 2005, 08:38 PM)
(don't get riled by that example please)
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Not at all.
Unfortunately, if such an answer does exists to my query (which I believe it does), it most likely will be systematic in nature. Sadly, this raises too many paradoxical problems; i.e., the needs of the many out weighing the needs of the few, while the needs of the one are as equally important as the needs as the rest, etc.
I've enjoyed this discussion with you, hyperactive, but my feeble brain is in dire need of sleep now. If you would like to discuss this further, please send me a pm and I will respond as soon as I've had a few hours sleep.
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