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Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality vs Skepticism
Ashley-Star*Child
Now, I'd like to ask anyone that claims to know who they were in a past life (and yes, I do believe in reincarnation, and the Hebrews always have also) what it is you should be learning in this life.

For every incarnation there is a lesson to be learnt. Some can be learnt via astrology. Others claim to know who they were in a past life.

When I was 2 years old I told my mother about a past life, wo I was, what my name was how old I was, which country it was in, where I was buried, how I died, who my family members were etc. Apparently, I died as a child. That's one life down. I don't think I've had all that many, but I have also found that there was one preceeding that, a very long time before, and possibly one after. My mother didn't believe in reincarnation back then, until I stated, like I said above, at the age of 2, telling her all about this past life, in great detail.

Why did I die as a child? Maybe the answer to that lies in the one preceeding it.

So, now, who were you (if you think you know) and what is it you have to learn in this life?

Every reincarnated existense exists to learn from mistakes from a past life (unless you were a real good little cookie and got to ask to return). Think about it.
theoric
no returns. execpt within the mind grin2.gif

we have a great capability to create, and we use it to create all sorts of things. previous lives is one of those things.
Faeden
Hi Ashley

I have a Total belief in reincarnation, I have never been regressed, but I have had some consistent repeated dreams.

One is where I am someone of great wealth, and I am always riding on a horse, and chasing animals, such as a fox, and shouting and whistling, and have feelings of hate, and anger, while chasing the animal. I remember jumping hedges too. The dream always ends with me being buckarood of the horse and before I hit the ground I remember no more.

Another strange and terrifying dream I have had many times also, is one where I am a fox, and I am being chased by hunters and people shouting on horses. The feeling of fear I feel is to terrible and horrific to describe to you, its making me feel sick just thinking about it. Anyway I am running desperately to get away, after I get back to my hole or hollow in a tree whatever it is, I see my babies, and they are all yelping, the next thing I know one of the hunters dogs comes snarling though the entrance to the hole and then I remember no more.

I dont know if these repeated dreams have anything to do with my past life for certain, but I am now strongly against fox hunting, or any hunting with a passion, I have never hated anything so much in my life, I am a member of non violent anti hunt organisations.

If I have been reincarnated in the hope that I can put right some wrongs I might have done in a past life, I do hope I am doing that now by helping all that I can to stop hunting and cruelty to animals. I believe that I might have been a evil, greedy, rich man in my past life, who was angry and loved killing animals which is why I have a powerful love of animals, and no interest in money, or material things in this life.

all the best
Faeden
SilverCougar
Felines.... my luck.. I probaly killed a human in a past life and thus cursed to live life as one now.
Ashley-Star*Child
Faeden and SC,

Animals don't get judged, so if say a really bad person came back as an animal, they wouldn't get judged for that life, maybe even getting off what they did in a past life. Just as dying (or in my case, being killed as) as a child would

I'm against hunting, animal curelty etc also (I am a vegetarian). But in that case I don't think it has anything to do with a past life, it's just me. I don't like child cruelty or rather any cruelty of someone or somthing which can't defend itself.

I'd say animals can become human, angels can become human, even God's own Son came here as a human.

Why reincarnation? Reincarnation is a testing ground, where you can fix errors of your past of your own free will something not every creation has the luxury of.

Sometimes, you have to keep coming back until that's been accomplished. I hope I don't have to again.
The Raven
QUOTE(SilverCougar @ Apr 15 2005, 10:27 PM)
Felines....  my luck.. I probaly killed a human in a past life and thus cursed to live life as one now.
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Thats kind of a cool way to look at it. Being human is being cursed. I would love to be any other animal but a human, but since humans destroy the other animals, too, I'm not sure what I want.

Anyways, I myself do believe in reincarnation although I'm no expert on it. I haven't a clue of what I was before, other than those strange "scenes" and "feelings" that I posted in the thread about fears being from a past life. Maybe my UM name has something to do with a, "Past life" -- if I could be any bird I would be a raven, because of it's intellect, craftiness, and playfullness.

QUOTE
Animals don't get judged, so if say a really bad person came back as an animal, they wouldn't get judged for that life, maybe even getting off what they did in a past life. Just as dying (or in my case, being killed as) as a child would

You sure, Ashley? I remember in the Free-Will thread you said animals don't have free will and obey the word of God. When they use their free will, it is bad, and they are judged and condemned. Need I quote?

Also, why are you anti-hunting? Humans may be and probably should be more herbavore, but hunting game is a natural thing. In nature, hunting occours every day -- survival of the fittest. Changing this balance is just trying to fill the world with wholly imperfect human values.

I believe hunting for survival and material is perfectly fine, much like the native american way, though. If I did hunt an animal, I would make sure I needed the food, and I would use every part of the animal possible. The majority of hunting today, though, is sick. Hunting is not a sport, it's survival, and when I see people with their boot on the head of a dead moose, a rifle in hand, and a big orange vest, I get VERY angry. Kind of wish the moose had the rifle and his razor-sharp hoof on the hunter's head.
theoric
QUOTE(The Raven @ Apr 15 2005, 06:41 PM)

Being human is being cursed. I would love to be any other animal but a human, but since humans destroy the other animals, too, I'm not sure what I want.
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I would prefer to be a snow leopard or a caracal, if such a choice were to be mine. grin2.gif
Kerkido
For me.. Reincarnation is a scary subject, I don't dare believe it.. It scares me.

I have had dreams, where I was a man in his mid twenties.. A man who celebrated on a beach, with a handful of others - in the occassion of a huge accomplishment. We were all wealthy, there on that very beach was a fancy setup, large table was sitting on the sand, the table was filled with magnificient foods - we all took our seats and enjoyed the feast. Moments later, there were men we could see from distant places, from each corner they all ran toward us, towards our place in the beach. Me and my companions ran for our lives because we heard gunfire.. That's the end of my dream.
That was a dreadful dream..
The thought that it may have been something that occured in a past life, is horrofying.
Ashley-Star*Child
Well, I don't agree with hunting because of the cruelty factor. Animls hint for survival, man doesn't.

Yes, as I said before, when I sad they don't have free will, I laso said they don't get judged. It's because of that lack of free will. And like I said, if an animals did use free will, they would be punished for it. But as a whol they don't. When they hunt, kill, whatever, theya re doing what they are supposed to be doing. That's how they survive.
Ashley-Star*Child
On top of that, forevry incarntion (if it's because of something you've don), you become what you hate the most. If you committed a crime against women, you'll become a women, if you hated animals, you'll become an animal, if you were racist, you'll become that race. That is one way the lesson gets learnt.
theoric
QUOTE(kerkido @ Apr 15 2005, 06:47 PM)
For me.. Reincarnation is a scary subject, I don't dare believe it.. It scares me.

I have had dreams, where I was a man in his mid twenties.. A man who celebrated on a beach, with a handful of others - in the occassion of a huge accomplishment. We were all wealthy, there on that very beach was a fancy setup, large table was sitting on the sand, the table was filled with magnificient foods - we all took our seats and enjoyed the feast. Moments later, there were men we could see from distant places, from each corner they all ran toward us, towards our place in the beach. Me and my companions ran for our lives because we heard gunfire.. That's the end of my dream.
That was a dreadful dream..
The thought that it may have been something that occured in a past life, is horrofying.
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dreams tell us more about this life and who we are than about anything else, in my opinion. Have you ever been dream analyzed? I have not, for i dream in numbers ( space, time and its calculation, optimization, combinatorics, number theory, complex spaces, et al)
The Raven
QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child @ Apr 15 2005, 10:49 PM)
Well, I don't agree with hunting because of the cruelty factor. Animls hint for survival, man doesn't.

Yes, as I said before, when I sad they don't have free will, I laso said they don't get judged. It's because of that lack of free will. And like I said, if an animals did use free will, they would be punished for it. But as a whol they don't. When they hunt, kill, whatever, theya re doing what they are supposed to be doing. That's how they survive.
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Shouldnt we survive like that, too? It's surely better than destroying everything, including eachother. Why don't animals build buildings, churches, cars, etc? Are their lives predefined? If so, that means they don't have free will by your standards, because them using "free will" is already planned, and thus not free will. Are our lives like that, too?

If things work anything like that, then why would there be reincarnation? If we just all follow a preplanned destiny, we can't have free will, we can't learn on our own, and we are without purpose. Personally, I don't believe that is so, because I know I've already learned a lot in this life, and a lot more is coming.

QUOTE
On top of that, forevry incarntion (if it's because of something you've don), you become what you hate the most. If you committed a crime against women, you'll become a women, if you hated animals, you'll become an animal, if you were racist, you'll become that race. That is one way the lesson gets learnt.

That does and doesn't make sense. I don't really hate anything like that, but since I am a HUMAN and a MALE, does that mean I hated HUMAN MALES in my past life?
theoric
QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child @ Apr 15 2005, 06:51 PM)
On top of that, forevry incarntion (if it's because of something you've don), you become what you hate the most. If you committed a crime against women, you'll become a women, if you hated animals, you'll become an animal, if you were racist, you'll become that race. That is one way the lesson gets learnt.
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so what if your crime is hating "god"? grin2.gif
Ashley-Star*Child
If you hated God, you'll come back as Born Again Christian tongue.gif lol. No, actually, I think God has other ways of dealing with that.

Raven,

Things are pre-destined, to a point. That's where astrology comes in. Astrology isn't just your personality (that's your chart when you were born, a picture of the Heavens at that very moment) but also transits (planets making an aspect to planets within your own chart. They re constanty moving, and show the tests of your life. Free wll comes in there. It's about choice. If you have a transit of Saturn on your Sun, you can eithr learn from it but choosing to take path A, or struggle with it, by taking path B. Even without transits, on a daily basis, people make independant choices. Those choices are your free will.

It's not always the case, they were exmaples.

Hell, Heaven and Sheol, all occur in between past lives. This is why there are sentences of hell. If you'e in th lowest level of hell, you must endure the length of your sentence, make you way up to Sheol, and then most probably, return. There are times when Heaven is closed to humanity.
Kerkido
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Apr 16 2005, 03:51 PM)
dreams tell us more about this life and who we are than about anything else, in my opinion.  Have you ever been dream analyzed?  I have not, for i dream in numbers ( space, time and its calculation, optimization, combinatorics, number theory, complex spaces, et al)
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Never have been dream analyzed.
theoric
QUOTE
Things are pre-destined, to a point. That's where astrology comes in. Astrology isn't just your personality (that's your chart when you were born, a picture of the Heavens at that very moment) but also transits (planets making an aspect to planets within your own chart. They re constanty moving, and show the tests of your life.


so how do premature and late births play into this?

is it destined at birth, or destined at conception (meaning those not born at the right time are reading the wrong charts?)

i just don't trust those astrology readers one bit. I fail to see any coorelation between the alignment of the planets and personality. no.gif

so is your def of free will mean there is not complete free will? if so, we actually agree on something thumbsup.gif
Ashley-Star*Child
Well, yes, I think the definition of free will has been skewed. It's patr pre-destined but the ability to make choices of you own free is technicaly what free will is.

I was born via C-section as was everyone in my family (bar my father - all for C-sections lol), even my mother was. It makes no difference if you were born premature or assisted, that in itself is predestined. C-sections hve been around for millenia, and premature births have always existed. Another thing broght up in Enoch taught by angels. They taught which months of gestation a fetus grows hair, nails, etc, that at 6 months gestaton a fetus could survive, but at 8 months they could safely be born. Even now with technology it's a very rare event that a fetus under 6 month gestation survives. At 6 months onwards we can keep them alive, with assistance.

You don't believ in astrology? Eve had a real chart done? If you ant I'll do it for you (and anyone else that asks nicely tongue.gif) then you can make up your mind.
The Raven
QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child @ Apr 15 2005, 11:37 PM)
You don't believ in astrology? Eve had a real chart done? If you ant I'll do it for you (and anyone else that asks nicely tongue.gif) then you can make up your mind.
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What is a real chart? I am interested in astrology, but I haven't much knowledge on it. You don't think you could do one, could you? If it proves to be accurate it's either a great coincidence or the real deal, since I can personally confess I've never spoken a word to Ashley outside of a few threads.
theoric
QUOTE
You don't believ in astrology? Eve had a real chart done? If you ant I'll do it for you (and anyone else that asks nicely ) then you can make up your mind.


it would be interesting to see indeed. what do you need to know to do it?
Darkwind
I believe I was a small animal at one time and a warrior in the Middle Ages. I get bad dreams from the warrior. Medieval battle was not pleasant experience.
I think each life our spirit learns and I don't think it ever ends. I don't think there is a nirvana or heaven or summerland. You keep growing and learning until our spirits be come as the Gods. Even then we keep learning.


No rest for the weary, SC. wink2.gif
Faeden
Oh the hunting thing I am against hunting for sport, because its evil, and sick, they hunt not for survival, but because they get a thrill out of killing. Some say it makes you a man but whats manly about hunting a animal that cant defend its self with a gun and blowing it away ? To me that makes you a gutless wimp.

I have no problem with the ancients hunting for food, because they had to, but lets face it now a days theirs no reason to hunt, the cost of a cartridge and the gun could easily by you food from the store, this "hunting for survival" is just an excuse, people do not have to hunt animals to survive any more full stop. People only hunt because they love shooting things, lets not kid our self.

I dont believe that humans can be reincarnated into animals, or animals in to humans, but I do believe we can have soul connections to animals, such as animal guides, that are in a sense apart of our soul web or soul family. People forget that we are animals too, I think animals play a big part in teaching us many things here in our earthly life.

Ashley isn’t it creepy we have actually found something in common, and have agreed on something, in fact its scaring me so much I think I might pray grin2.gif

I believe many of the things we feel passionate about can have a strong link and connection to something with a past life, such as someone that might have murdered someone in a past life, might come back and become a murder detective in the next one to some how level out a karmic debt.

All the best
Faeden
Ashley-Star*Child
Maybe we aren't so different after all Faeden. In fact, a few years ago, I was running about saying how the entire Bible was wrong because of these 'new texts' wirtten by Jesus which would topple Christianity (at which time I nwas practicing Judaism). I never read the Bible, (I did believe in God and Jesus though, turned to Judaism at 13), was previouly RC). Then I realized those txts were the Dead Sea Scrolls, and yes, some thing were man-made, but when I actually sat down and read it, I changed my mind.

In fact it was a dream that led me to this Book of Enoch, which at the time, I didn't even know existed (nor was I really that interested in texts, excluded or otherwise). I had asked God why a certain event in my life had occured with involved myself and two of by siblings. Instead, that same day, I got a dream, showing me an event in enoch (the angels Azazel (or Asi'el), Sheyaza (Azza) and Uzza (Ouzza) ) bound hand and foot in the in the wilderness, blinded, crying out to God day in, day out, the things one of them in particluar had taught (like the mirror), and eventually an angel releasing them, what happened with with later being punished by Solomon (also in another excluded text), etc. There was more to it but I'm going to go though the whole thing here. And that is exactly what happened as said in those texts. It also showed how I would eventually find it (and it did happen that way), eerily enough), that it was part of history, was was from an other Bible. Not only was Enoch the original 'Bible' it's also contained in a book calld 'The Other Bible'. So, that's proof enough for me it exists, an there is textual evidence to say othrwise.

The fact is, I didn't know any such event had ever occured, nor that it was included in any excluded books etc. I'd never even heard of any books of Enoch before. It didn't make any sense when I had the dream, but I wrote it down anyway, because, well, it was wierd, and as it turned out, when I did eventually find the book, everything in it was as I saw it. It's not the only such experience I've had though. And it's not the only one which lead to a future event which did in fact happen the way I saw it, involving angels in their truer forms....like having extreme height, which again was a form I didn't know existed. Or the Heaven being in space as I saw it, angelic script etc. It took me 4 years to find out what those symbols were.

Raven and Hyperactive,

A real chart needs your date of birth, time and geographical location at birth. The latter is for your ascendant. You can have one with it but it's more accurate with it.

A real chart includes the 10 planets in the signs, the Ascendant, aspects, etc. Aspects are quite involved, so what I'll d it give you a general chart reading of planets in signs.
The Raven
QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child @ Apr 16 2005, 12:43 AM)
Raven and Hyperactive,

A real chart needs your date of birth, time and geographical location at birth. The latter is for your ascendant. You can have one with it but it's more accurate with it.

A real chart includes the 10 planets in the signs, the Ascendant, aspects, etc. Aspects are quite involved, so what I'll d it give you a general chart reading of planets in signs.
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I'll PM you this information, that is if you're really willing to do this. I find it very interesting, and would like to learn all I can.
Ashley-Star*Child
Ok PM it Raven.
SilverCougar
uh uh... IYou asked what we believe... and we said. I can garumtee animals can to judge, and most humans underestimate... *shrugs* Mother Earth gave every one of her children a spirit... and that inclueds every animal... with that inclueds emotions...
Me_Again
I think I've committed suicide before, and if I went to hell, I don't remember tongue.gif
Seriously though I think I have. In a past life regression session huh.gif I was told that I was a boy pharaoh , who at a very young age became powerful and was responsible for numerous deaths ohmy.gif And thats why I have depression and a deep sadness in my heart hmm.gif
But I also believe that everyone has the chance to EXPERIENCE everything and once you've done that, you've experienced infinity and then the life cycle begins...again. Dang I feel reallllly old now, older than the dinosaurs ph34r.gif wub.gif
The Raven
QUOTE(Me_Again @ Apr 16 2005, 02:36 AM)
I  think I've committed suicide before, and if I went to hell, I don't remember  tongue.gif
Seriously though I think I have. In a past life regression session  huh.gif I was told that I was a  boy pharaoh , who at a very young age became powerful and was responsible for numerous deaths  ohmy.gif  And thats why I have depression and a deep sadness in my heart  hmm.gif
But I also believe that everyone has the chance to EXPERIENCE everything and once you've done that, you've experienced infinity and then the life cycle begins...again. Dang I feel reallllly old now, older than the dinosaurs  ph34r.gif  wub.gif
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Told? What do you mean told? They're not supposed to tell you what you were, you're supposed to see what you were. Being a pharaoh would be interesting.
starlitkate
I would have to say that I don't beleive in reincarnation... blink.gif I beleive what the bible tells me and that's it. I have myself too have either miracle dreams, many dreams from God telling me the end times are near and for me to change my life, I've had dreams of me being a black panther in a jungle getting shredded open by other panthers..---that one was messed up. But I don't beleive in reincarnation. For one our minds is the greatast part of our body I think. Cuz without our mind we can't function and with our mind comes the possibilities of anything occuring in a dream cuz you don't control it. thumbsup.gif
Faeden
Hi starlitkate

QUOTE
For one our minds is the greatast part of our body I think. Cuz without our mind we can't function and with our mind comes the possibilities of anything occuring in a dream cuz you don't control it. 


Yeah our mind is our spirit, but then that is the whole point and idea and concept about reincarnation isn’t it. Our mind comes back to the earth many times, and is housed in different bodies, so I am unsure what your are trying to say when you talk of not functioning without our mind, and what that has to do with anything, that is just obvious. If we do not have a mind, we do not exist.

Are you aware that the Christian and Catholic church believed in reincarnation for a short time in its history ?

All the best
Faeden
SilverCougar
QUOTE(SilverCougar @ Apr 16 2005, 06:33 AM)
uh uh... You asked what we believe... and we said.  I can garuntee animals can to judge, and most humans underestimate...  *shrugs*  Mother Earth gave every one of her children a spirit... and that inclueds every animal...  with that inclueds emotions...
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*edit* never post when half dead to the world...
Jason Factor
My girlfriend and I strongly believe things are ment after our serindipity introduction. Its easy to too see why we get along so well because of our cosmic magnetizm. We discussed many times and I agree that in a past life she was the man?? To make clear of our relationship I am very much the man insaying I give waiver to 50% of the authority. I 'd gladdly give a little more if it ment she had to shovel the driveway or take out the trash LOL. None the less I see psycics occaionaly and all unanumously say that I have a preist or religious figure not excluding monks, as either a guardian or past life. Another story I have is 2 pscyics stated I will never be complete until I go back to Rome?? wierd I've never been but I have a strong atachment insde to it?? how did they know??I can go on for days about all kinds of things asocieted to past life stories but I'll end it here..

P.S I love this site. I don't feel alone anymore..
zandore
QUOTE(SilverCougar Posted Today @ 02:33 AM )
Mother Earth gave every one of her children a spirit... and that inclueds every animal... with that inclueds emotions...
Yes!
If you don't know this then you never had a pet.
QUOTE(SilverCougar Posted Today @ 12:23 PM )
*edit* never post when half dead to the world...
Did you play to hard? mellow.gif
SilverCougar
QUOTE(zandore @ Apr 16 2005, 05:18 PM)
QUOTE(SilverCougar Posted Today @  02:33 AM )
Mother Earth gave every one of her children a spirit... and that inclueds every animal... with that inclueds emotions...
Yes!
If you don't know this then you never had a pet.
QUOTE(SilverCougar Posted Today @ 12:23 PM )
*edit* never post when half dead to the world...
Did you play to hard? mellow.gif
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Play? No.. I have screwed up my sleep cycle so horribly I fall asleep at 8pmish.. and wake up intermittently to watch M*A*S*H and whatever else is on. I had just shook myself partly awake when I posted.. and typos ahoy!
JohnnyBoyC
i have one memory and it tells me a great lot.
I died old, but not of natural causes.
I owned a bookstore, i must have been approx 70 yrs old.
And the last flash i remember is me on the ground with a man holding a knife to my head.
I had some background pictures but it seemed midevil like a castle city From Lord of the Rings type of thing. But my question is, where was i imbetween Medivil Times and Now?
theoric
the funny thing about "psychics" is they are masters of reading facial and body reactions.

they start with something broad and vague, measure your reaction and respond accordingly.

has anybody been "read" by a "psychic" where the "psychic" could not see your reactions, and your responses were fed back via an intermediary?

I would be interested in the hit/miss ratio of such a reading(s). yes.gif

(i was read by a "psychic" once at the request of my gf. she got nothing correct. - but knowing how to run tests, and how testers can read the testee, i am able to thwart their efforts to use expressions and body language against me ) thumbsup.gif
Ashley-Star*Child
Ok guys, post it here or PM it? They're ready.

And yes eveything alive has a soul. Well, if you don't believe in a soul to begin with, that statement wouldn't mean much, but if you can believe you have a soul, so does everything else that lives. And there are texts to back that up.

Christianity did believe in reincarnation for a while because the Hebrews hav always believed in it, but after a few people got ahold of it and started 'pruning' everything they thought was 'evil' it was demonized. It's even IN the Bible 'No one shall reach the kingdom of Heaven lest thy be born again'. That's Jesus' own words, and He wasn't talking about 'Born Again Christians'. Jesus practiced Judaism, there was no Christianity then, Born Again, Roman Catholic, or otherwise. So, it IS even in the Bible.
P4P3R T1G3R2
UHH Ashley,
The Hebrews never believed in reincarnation...
Kismit
In the sixteenth century a legend was created. Born into Ireland was a flamboyant red head with salt water in her veins, fire in her eyes and the wind in her hair. The Irish noblewoman who led a band of 200 sea raiders from the coast of Galway and fought the English never knew how she would change history forever. She loved, she pirated and she conquered the sea when men were in control and women were meek. Born was the lady pirate Gráinne Ni Mháille or Granuaile, otherwise known as Grace O’Malley.

Link

O.k that link is a little sensationalised, but Grace O'Malley is one person I feel I could definitely have been. She had very little patients and massive control issues, we could have been twins. yes.gif


Edit to add better link..Better link
Ashley-Star*Child
Yes they did and still do PaperTiger. Go read the Zohar. It even has an account of how 2 people, Romeo + Juliet style committed suicide, asked God to return together next time, and it got granted. Some Jews don't. There's Orthodox and Liberal Judaism. Just like there are Born Again Christians and Catholics.

Put it this way, if souls are created, why on Earth would it only ever come here once? The dwelling place of man is on Earth, and therefore, over all these Millenia, a little 'recycling' of souls isn't all that hard to believe.

Could have been Kismet, you never know.

Apparently in my past life, (the one I talked about at the beginning) I lived in Scotland, late 1800's, and it was my own twin which caused my accidental (hopefully) death. I named names (huge family) places, etc. I don't think a 2 year old could just make that up in that much detail. Maybe that's why I always had a interest in the Nessie lol.

Another thing that happened, around that time was that I told my mother something her deceased grandmother (grandmother as a partial guardian after her parents both died by the age of 7, she died when my mother was 16) had left her. I told her the exact location of where this inherticance (jewellery) had been left, which part of the house, etc (no, I'd never been to the house). Sure enough, it was there. That though, I don't think was a reincarnation related, just passing through a message.

Point is, kids tend to know more about this stuff, under the age of 3 I've heard.
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