Hi all

First of all I would like to state I am not condoning the use of any illegal drugs. Its wrong and against the law. Taking illegal hallucinogenic drugs can cause serious mental illness, or even worse, death. I would also like to make it clear I no longer take drugs, I do not even smoke or drink anymore

This is an experience I have never wrote about before, but its something I think about a lot, because of the strangeness of the experience, and of how it changed me as a person, and about the connection between mind and body.

Around 10 years ago when I was in my late teens early 20s I was some what of a rebel and thug, and a destructive person, I got into all sorts of criminal activities, such as gang fighting, drugs, illegal raves, ect. In that time I experimented with just about every drug known, one of them was L.S.D .

I had been told before I had ever taken any form of hallucinogenic that L.S.D was not something to be taken likely, as its the worlds most powerful drug, and can be devastating to someone if a bad trip occurs, or the user is not mentally strong, me being a stupid naive young person did not listen, and thought that I could deal with it, and cope with what ever my mind had to deal with, or what ever experiences it could throw at me.. Oh how wrong I was... And what I did not know at the time was that it was going to change my way of thinking for good.

Some of my friends where into spirituality of all kinds, I believed in the paranormal, but never thought much about the spiritual side of it, but my friends would always be blabbing on about metaphysics, parallel dimensions, and time travel, god, and the soul, and stuff like that, anyway one night I was doing my normal drinking of cider, and smoking cannabis. I was used to my friends acting strange as they had been experimenting with L.S.D over the last few weeks, some of them even longer, I was curious about it as my friends had told me about the strangeness of it, and how it had changed there way of thinking for the "better" ( in some cases it was for the worse) and that it has opened up some part of the sub conscious that they never knew existed. Most of my friends where over intelligent university students that came from upper class families, and I was like the odd one out that came from a lower class family, I was like the novelty poor person of the group, being I was not from a rich family and did not have a great education like they had, and was unemployed, and going nowhere fast. You would have thought it would have been me tempting them to do drugs, but it was them pressuring me.

I was cautious at first, even though I had heard the horror stories before, of what can go wrong, and had even seen someone a few weeks before have a bad trip, which in a way made me scared, but at the same time made me even more curious about this mysterious little pill, as the people taking the drug seemed so convinced that they could actually see into some other reality, or even dimension, they where so convinced of it that I started to convince my self I would be able to handle it so that I could see first hand what they where talking about, and that it was the "cool" thing to do, also if I took it, I would at least be accepted into the group more, as someone that knew about these secret spiritual things like they claimed to know, and would be able to join in more with there in-depth conversations about god, and time, and spirituality, so I asked one of them to get me one, for which they cheered me on. One of the biggest mistakes I made, was getting a blue micro dot, the most powerful form of L.S.D around at the time.

Anyway, I took the pill with a litre of cider (another mistake) being cider is full of acid. We where in a students bed sit, he had no electricity, so we where sitting in candle light, anyway 15 minuets past nothing, 30 minutes past nothing, 45 minutes past and I began to feel a little odd, I looked at the walls and watched the shadows moving around on the walls from the candles, and thought they looked odd, but I still felt happy and comfortable, then after about a hour after taking the micro dot, I started to notice one of my friends sitting in the chair, and he looked at me in a sinister way, and said something along the lines of "are you in the twilight zone yet" and as he said it the room felt like it was melting, and it felt like I could feel the sounds in the room on my skin as warmth. I was still thinking with a straight mind at this time, although I was hallucinating, I was still in a normal state of thinking. I remember telling my friends that I can handle this, its bizarre, but I could handle it (or so I thought). I remember my friends talking about some of the strange things that happen in a L.S.D trip, such as its impossible to tell the time, or to judge distance, as its like time and distance do not exist, which was a discussion when they where talking about hallucinogenic drugs and spirituality, and how shamans use hallucinogenic drugs to communicate with the spirit world, I remember thinking "of course you can tell the time and judge distance, Ill just look at my watch, and your be able to see it" so I looked at my watch and bizarrely there where about 20 hands on the dial, so I could not read it, I looked at my friends digital watch and the digits where 88:88 like it had been reset, I asked him what the time was, and he said its *&%( a clock I heard him talk, but when it come to the point that he said the actual time, I could not hear him, others tried to tell me, but the same thing happened, there voiced went silent at the point they said the time. I think this is the point I became freaked out and started to worry, and decided to try and walk out side, when I got up and waked from the room and stood in the hall, the atmosphere changed from comfortable to dark and oppressive, the shadows now seemed to turn into creatures on the walls, I heard them growling and whispering about me, then I looked down to the floor boards I was standing on, and they started to fall away beneath me, and under it was flames and fire, the next thing I remember was someone saying "for god sake help him" because apparently I had started pulling my hair out in clumps (something I do not recall) as I just did not understand what was going on. One of my friends then got up and took me down stairs, and out side, he tried to put his arm around me, but I thought it was a snake, so I just freaked out more, anyway after some convincing he got me out side.

As soon as I went out side the atmosphere changed again, but it was less threatening, everything seemed sparkly to look at, although I was scared, still it was not half as bad as what I had just experienced in the bed sit, my friends followed behind, and they decided it would be best for me not to be in that candle lit bed sit again, as it was that that seemed to be causing me to have bad visions, after some time one of my fiends Colin that was training to become a psychologist, started talking to me, and was starting to calm me down. When then I turned and looked down an ally way that was dark, and saw two dark figures huddled together talking and whispering, I thought they where demons and where plotting against me, and then something really odd happened the shadows I saw on the walls as creatures in the bed sit where now surrounding me and growling at me, they kind of reminded me of them demons in the movie Ghost. After starting to panic, my friend Colin told me to think of god, as he said that a white illuminated mist started coming up from my feet, and I could feel it touching my face and skin, then I looked back at the ally where the demons where, and they where gone, I then looked up and saw a silver sparkling stairway, it looked like a stairway to heaven, my instinct was to try and walk up it, as by this time I was completely dilutional, and away with the fairies, my friends started laughing at me because I was stomping on the grass thinking I was walking up steps, and my legs where giving way because I though I was going higher up the steps, and thought I was no longer standing on the grass.

After some time I was told to forget what I could see, and he then told me some stuff that I cant remember now, but it was something he had used in his psychology class about the yin and yang, and about that I should accept that light and darkness were equal, and that there was nothing I could do about it and that I should face my fears, and that my sub conscious mind should find away of accepting this, as he said this, I felt a sense of peace I had never felt before, both the demons, shadows and the stairway vanished, but had all morphed into one, and was now blended into everything I saw around me, the trees where swirling and sparkling with all the colours of the spectrum, the clouds and moon where spinning with vivid pretty colours, like a psychedelic video. Everything seemed to be vibrating at different rates of speed, this was pretty much how things would be through out the rest of the night. I never saw any other hallucinations, other than the swirling colours that seems to radiate from everything, and they seems to connect everything together, and I somehow saw and realised that everything was living and alive, and was one, it was as if my thoughts where solid and had mass, and that they connected to my environment. I could again feel sounds physically, and the environment in some odd way was something a part of me, I felt so connected to the ones around me, and felt love for them, even the ones I normally did not like, things seemed more realistic to me then than they did before, I had never felt so alive than in comparison to what I felt before.

Normal reality seemed less real, I think unless you have experienced it you wont know what I mean.

Another odd thing was something moving like a leaf floating down from a tree, made a sound like twinkling, when normally a leaf would make no sound, and when people turned there heads, I heard a whooshing noise.

One of the only things I did not like in this new found peace, was the frustration I had when I would get these huge bursts of thought come to me, that made me think "I understood the universe and everything in it" I had it on the tip of my tongue, and I told those around me that I knew the answer to life, and everything-ness, and they would say to me ‘OK Barry tell us what is the meaning to the universe’ and I just could not spit it out, I could not get the words out of my mouth, no matter how hard I tried, but I swear blind some how I knew it, and it was the most frustrating thing I have ever felt to this day, it was like one side of me understood the secrets of the universe, but the other side could not comprehend it.

Anyway after a while about 10 hours in all, I came down, and started coming back to reality, and over a day or 2 got back to normal completely. But my ways of thinking had changed dramatically, I got a job, I stopped fighting, I stop taking drugs, I became a better person, and started learning everything I could about the after life and spirituality, I became a pacifist, and an animal lover, I became a hippie and later a pagan. The experience was terrifying yet awe inspiring, but I would never do it again as some of the people I did it with today have mental problems, so its not all good.

My reason for posting this is because I had a dream about this last night after talking to my girl friend about it, and it has brought back some memories of it, and has made me wonder again is L.S.D something that just causes the brain to hallucinate, or is it something that actually opens up apart of the consciousness that is able to see into other dimensions or realties ? Was I just seeing a bunch of crap that my mind and surroundings caused me to experience? Or does it open up a door in our own mind, that allows us to see a perception of things more complex, and of a higher understanding that what our normal waking brains experience ? I do not know the answer to this, but it has sure changed me and made me think more about things I would not normally have done before hand.

I believe shamans and tribal people use hallucinogens because (to them) it opens the door to the other worlds, in where they can see, and communicate with beings or things in that world, and that they connect with it both physically and mentally. Its like we are interconnected with all things, and beings that are all around us, all the time, whether they be physical things or spiritual things, the spiritual are a reality in there mind state, just as the physical is a reality in our mind state, and are all in a sense morphed into our natural environment, and ours into theirs. Maybe the same applies to our lives and there lives we are all connected. Maybe they have drugs that make them have strange experiences where they can see glimpse into a window into our world?

God if you like is like one huge mass of energy all combined into one. Maybe these drugs can open something up within us that lets us have a glimpse into that window of the bigger picture of things, but unfortunately our physical brains are limited, and can not perceive that bigger picture, as a spirit being might well see it. This experience seems to have taught me that the spirit world is all around us, its represented by life we all see all around us, it just seems that our physical world seems to give it a image that we all perceive as being "normal" reality. I think the laws of the spirit world are probably extremely strange, and alien to us.

I also find it fascinating that its said that time and distance does not exist in the spirit world, and when I tired to tell the time or hear the time when on L.S.D, I could not understand it no matter how hard I tried, I mean I could not even hear someone say, it or even judge the distance from me to a wall near by.

Sorry for waffling on, I hope people do not think I have lost my marbles lol.

All the best
Faeden

All in all.. I'd rather use peyote.

there are plans to some day have a drug to reproduce the same effects of meditation on the brain.

The idea being to determine chemically what is happening in deep med, and if there is something out there.

or perhaps it will FINALLY render "gods" obsolete once the god effect is boiled down to a pill.

My Goddess can beat up your pill! *raspberry*

hehehe ;P

I seen a program on BBC I think, it was a guy going to all these tribes around the world that practise this kind of stuff. he was given some of these drugs and he described it. Obviously its a physical thing, of course.

Hi

Yes! but one of the points I was trying to make, was that maybe certain drugs like L.S.D can open apart of our being, that allows that "God effect" to be felt or experienced.

I do not think that the answers to god can be found in a pill its self. but a drug might let us experience genuine "God effects" in the state of mind a pill might put us in, or what kind of strange door it might open to us. Remember we only use a small % of our brain mass, could certain drugs make us use more of that brain mass, letting us see something we do not normally notice around us?. Even science admits that energy is all around us, but we do not always see that energy, or even know where it comes from, maybe some drugs can help us see energies that are normally invisible to our every day senses.

All the best
Faeden

that might be pushing it a bit.

we can not perceive what we do not have the receptors to receive.

It is likely that they will never resolve the greatest question of all—namely, whether our brain wiring creates God, or whether God created our brain wiring. Which you believe is, in the end, a matter of faith.

Once i thought i could move objects with my mind for months after following the white rabbit. I think it was my first time tripping and i was setting on my bed looking at my door and concentrating really hard and it was opening and closing at my will. It would be cool to think that the experience was real! I think drugs open you up to unwanted things and cause your aura to become thin. Therefor i'm glad i have experienced things i have back in the day on some but i will never use them again. blessings, Jo

Personally, I think people will use any excuse to use drugs..If you can disguise it as something spiritual then it helps kill off the "I should know better" messeges your rational mind is sending you..
For me, I can find far higher spiritual heights just sitting quietly on a nice spring day than I ever did while I was experimenting with various substances..

Hi Faeden,

Drugs aren't needed to find the energies that surround us. I've never done acid and I see the power in Mother a lot, the connections that exist between every living thing. Mother glows in certain areas of the world and in others she has been wounded so much that I can hear her screams.

For me it's more being in a certain state of mind than drugs could ever achieve. The "God effect" as you call it is already in your brain, it's just a matter of being able to gain access. But it's different for everyone. I can't see the "old ones" in color and I can't "fly" (being able to leave the body) because I am in a cloudy fog. But I can see and talk to the old ones, my guides are old ones. I've even watched them play. (Side note: my beliefs run with the Native American, and no I'm not.) Other's see in color but can't talk to the old ones.

I'm glad that you were able to see good things with your experience, and you were able to change your life for the better, but there are other ways to achieve those experiences. Having an open mind is one of the biggest ways.

Elspeth

indeed. one should not need drugs to understand (or for any reason). however, the drug i was referencing is proposed in order to discover if those few that reach a state of deep meditation are actually communicating with something, or it is "all in the head". I believe it is the latter (from experience). We will have to wait and see. I think it would be hilarious if the drug became available as "gods in a bottle", and the resulting flocking of the lost masses to this drug for the answers. Real indicitive of how far off course humanity has gone. How far will man go to deny his own reality?

I've heard that LSD 'opens your mind'. In my mother's time (the 70's) quite a few people used a have a 'trip' once a year to clear their minds. Problem is though, the after effects never go away.

My mother took it once with her friends (well, she'd tried it a few times, but on this occasion), and they were all watching this great movie on TV, wild colors, etc. Problem was though, they heard later that the TV was just dots (TV's used to switch off the air here after midnight then). Odd how they were all watching the same 'movie' though.

Anyway, I can't say if what's seen under the influence of LSD really is opening the mind OBE style, but it sure does make for an interesting 'trip'. Yes, pun intended lol.

LSD is not to be trifled with...it is definately not recreational...Ashley is right ...the effects don't go away...you have recurring "trips" where your reality becomes skewed for brief moments. I'm not trying to scare anyone but in my opinion this is one drug best left alone...mushrooms are better but they have to be a certain kind or you will get very sick.

Yeah, that's exactly what happens the 'recurring trips' and it can happen at any time.

Even during the trip it can be dangerous, I've heard about (from my mother) people committing suicide on a trip by jumping off a balcony when they saw something else.

My mother is pretty open-minded, you wanna smoke, do it in front of me, you want a drink, bring it out, you wanna smoke a joint, roll me one too. It's not that she condoned the above, she didn't want any of us doing it in some back alley, she'd rather know where we were. She's not stupid, she grew up in the 70's. Can't say my father liked the idea too much, but he eventually went along with it. She's never hid anything about her past (not that she did anything that drastic), and in the same respect expected us not to hide anything from her.

I find this story very interesting. I have friends that have taken acid, and I've heard about all the weird things they're seen. One of my friends told me that the most intelligent thoughts she's ever had were while she was tripping and she felt like she had a new understanding of everything.
I personally have chosen not to go down that path, mainly because of the side effects and also because I don't think I'm strong enough to be able to cope with that. I'm interested to know if you (Faeden) have experienced any of the side effects such as flashbacks extended periods of time after the trip. Apparently it can happen several years after.
It's very interesting to think of the whole 'passing into the spiritual realm' thing, I do not believe in any kind of spiritual realm whatsoever (I am an atheist) so I think that in a way it stimulates your senses. The whooshing you talked of when people turned their heads fits into this. I mean, your head is making a sound when you turn it, but an extremely tiny one that is not usually hearable. So it stimulates what you are able to hear and see of some things. This also could explain the shadows and walls and visions, because if you stimulate one sense too much it can create things in your mind.
Very interesting topic though.

You can have bad trips. Have one of those and you can feel as though you CAN'T get out of them, like literally living your worst nightmare. It's not all rainbows and sunshine. Depends how you take it.

*little girl's voice* Don't tip meeeee... I'll spiiiilll

Hi Catrat

I had a flashback a year after I took it yes, where I was sitting on a train and some drunks came in to the carriage I was in, and they started picking on an old lady (I dont think they saw me and thought the old lady was the only one in the carriage) They tried mugging her, and I saw red (quite literally) everything went red and orange and I found my self seeing and feeling what I had seen when I was on the trip, the next thing I knew the drunks where running of, I cant remember what happened in them few seconds, but apparently I told the drunks I would bring hell upon them if they did not leave, being bullies they where chicken sh** and left. It was odd because when the drunks came in, I felt fear, and when I saw the women being mugged I got angry and it seemed to trigger something in my head that spontaneously caused me to act ( no I am not the Hulk lol). I’m not trying to sound like a hero, because I am not, I never even made a conscious decision to confront the drunks, the flashback must have put me into pilot mode. I’m 6ft 2 in tall built like a brick *hit house and used to be a boxer, so I can handle my self, and can look very intimidating. I have not had a flashback since, and its been 10 years, so i guess its left my system, but i still think in a more open way.

All the best
Faeden

Wow Ashley...your mom sounds like a really down to earth person...good for you.
My parents were similar....I'm still jealous they saw Led Zeppelin together!lol

LOL SC...or should we say...Alice?

Mushrooms can mess you up too...

I used to have fun with shrooms... But then, they just would make 5 hours of my life not fun... lol
So now I don't do them anymore...


LBD

Awsome story about the lady on the train...you sure you didn't turn green like the hulk instead of red faeden?...Yeah Ive tripped before too...3 times...1st was fun...2nd time I got caught up in negativity in my life at the time...and 3rd I mixed with another substance...probably divulging too much here but that third time it felt like there was just a little piece of me deep inside that couldn't wait to get this over with...I was tripping inside of a trip and my friends who were tripping with me were asking me if I was alright...now if your tripping friends have to ask you that then I guess I was really done. I have never tripped again on LSD but have done mushrooms on very few occasions...I must have drank a case of beer trying to come down...I have never had a recurring trip but my friends have told me about thier experiences with them.

Thats a cool story...

I kinda did something like that... But this happened to me while I was just really hi on pot... lol

I was visiting one of my friends one summer for like 2 weeks... We would shoot our guns at targets, go out into the wood and explore, we were about 15 at this time...
We ran out of weed one evening, so my friend called one of his close bye friends...
We got onto our bikes and rode down to his house, probably about 2 miles away...
Well we went in, smoked, and left...
We were riding back, and all of the sudden I started to imagine I was on a motorcycle... I couldn't feel my legs peddling anymore... My friend said he has never seen anyone go that fast on a bike...
I got back to my friends farm a good minute before him, and he was hauling ass as well...
I was a unique experience...

LBD

I was thinking the other day about our societies obsesson with past lives and an ancient Buddhist story came to mind.

Once there was a monk walking out in the forest who was attacked by a tiger. He turned and fled the tiger close on his heels and not minding where he was going fell over the side of a cliff. Luckly he managed to grab a small branch and stop the fall. He down to see another tiger waiting for him. He looked up to see the one who had chased him. Then he looked at the branch which was starting to give way and noticed a single strawberry which he picked and ate saying "how sweet it is."

The point(both of the story and my citing it) is simply that people should be more concerned about the here and now. In the Eastern cultures that the New Age movement borrowed(or perhaps the word should be perverted) reincarnation there is little actual concern about figuring out who you were in your past life. The point is to live in the here and now and let the karma of the past work itself out.

If people want to find out there past lives, its fine, its not hurting anyone. Some people do it out of interest, some for fun, its all good. No need to make such a big deal out of it Kev. Weather you think its crap or pointless or that it annoys you is irrelevant.

All the best
Faeden

past lives are the product of an active imagination. Behold, the mind creates things on its own, and thus dreams of other lives come into being. These dreams should not overshadow one's reality. There would be no greater waste of life than to spend this one life you have chasing after "alternate" lives.

Hi hyperactive

Anything to do with spirituality or the paranormal can be classed as an "active imagination" and perhaps some of it is, but my reality or the next man or women’s reality might be a lot different to your idea and opinion of reality, its all about personal interpretation of things. Yes some might be a little dilutional that believe in the "new age" such as blind faith believers, but I do not think that beliefs in past lives is just an "over active imagination" as theirs a lot of outstanding evidence to back it up.

All the best
Faeden

can you provide it?

I have yet to see such types of evidence (everything is too subjective, and too tracable to experiences in this life)

hyperactive



LOL I was going to add to my last post, please do not ask me to prove it, because I knew you would ask, because I cant be bothered at the moment, but I will when I have time.

A lot of it though is testimonies from small children, which I know is not 100% evidence, but some of the kids are like only just able to talk, and they can tell there parents exact details about places they have never been, and the past lives of people the parents knew, that had died years before the child was born. Some children have even said bizarre things like ‘I was your mummy before I came back here’ and my name was (example Lucy) when the child would never have known what there parents mothers name, was, because they died decades before, and the child was never told about there grandmothers name. The list is endless… How would a 1 or 2 year old child know about pacific things that they have never known or been told about? Kids tell lies to get out of trouble if they have been naughty, its just not credible to think a 2 year old child would make up a story about reincarnation, let alone understand the concept of reincarnation.

all the best
Faeden

to be evidence (for or against) each case would have to be fully investigated.

as for children telling stories: never underestimate the imagination of a child (and they can build complex stories quite quickly given very little to work with - children pick up more than adults give them credit for)

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as for children telling stories: never underestimate the imagination of a child (and they can build complex stories quite quickly given very little to work with - children pick up more than adults give them credit for)
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I agree totally. I love kids. But they will be the first to make a liar out of you almost everytime! LOL In my experience kids and old people are some of the greatest liars LOL.

I feel that the use of LSD is not the way to go. I have read posts that say that it made them feel like they knew the answers to the world. They knew everything. That is the key here, it made them feel like they knew everything. That is what LSD does. Gives you a false sense of what is real. That is why they are called hallucinations. I don't believe that they (drugs) open any doors to any dimensions in your mind. I don't believe that they make your mind more open to "seeing" any doors to any other dimensions. If anything drug use, will only close the doors that are there naturally. As most things in this world, if you don't already have access to the "other side", it will take a while for you to find the "key" that will open it. Things that are usually hard to achieve and take a lot of time and work, are usually the most appreciated. Drugs won't speed up any process, other than putting you in jail or putting you on antipsychotic meds.

I will now step down off my antidrug soapbox.

stumbles as she steps down, "Damn, I knew I shouldn't have snorted that coke before giving my little soliloquy.

Yes, but my point was, kids have told there parents things that there is no way they could have known something about whatever it is they are talking about. And why on earth would a kid of 2 and sometimes even younger make up a story about reincarnation, some of the kids come from families that did not believe in reincarnation, or where not even religious.


I was aware before I started this post that people would completely miss my point in starting this, and start going on about how bad drugs are, I know that, that is why I stated it at the very start in red lettering. Drugs being bad has nothing to do with the nature of what I was posting about, the reality is whether drugs are bad or not is that people take them and always will. I was trying to ask a question based on an experience I had when I was a teenager.

I am not saying that drugs are a doorway to another dimension, I was asking the question on was it possible. I am anti drugs too, they are bad, but my experience made me think about why shamans, and tribal people use them, being it made me see how someone could believe they where in fact seeing some mystical and spiritual world, or being able to learn universal knowledge. I’m open minded about the possibility.

All the best
Faeden

this brings us back to the "god pill":

as one who has meditated, I think that the chemical changes in the brain bring about something totally internal to the brain. There is no outside connection to me.

however, some think they are talking to something else ( JP II is one that thought his deep prayer put him in communication with his god, for example).

If a drug can replicate it, does that show it is totally internal? Of course there will be no answer to such a subjective experience. Still, it is interesting the connection between drugs and "higher powers".

I will stick with the idea that meditation allows for clear thought, control of the body, and all other things internal. That is until I am able to do the one thing that would prove "gods" exist, which is to astral project the "godness" of my psyche out to the astral plan, and then manifest it back into my physical body, making me a "god". *continues making plans for world domination*

I see where your coming from by saying wouldn’t taking a drug prove its internal, and nothing to do with a outside influence... But the way I look at it is this.... You have a box (the brain) and a man (the pill) walks into that box, and sees a TV (window) but never pays it any attention, because its got nothing to do with the job he (the pill) was sent to do. Another man (pill) walks into that brain (box) and see the TV and knows its what its job is, and works on it, and then turns on that TV, that can in fact now see out side of the box, to things normally not accessible to anyone out side that brain, he can see a reality none of them other men (pills) could see, because that TV (window) had never been turned on before. Its not the pill making the experience, its the pill that is turning on a TV inside our brain, that is causing us to be able to see things we could not normally see without the aid of that pill that opened that window. Maybe going into mediation is a natural way of turning on that TV in side our brains?

All the best
Faeden

She is My father was into Led Zeppelin, the Doors, etc, my mother was more into the funk side which was mainly dominated (here anyway) by the gay community. My mother had friends having sex changes, and it's pretty emotionally anguishing for them, at least then anyway, she also knew the guy that wrote Rocky Horror - Reg Livermore or something. He came up with the idea. It was an 'elite' thing then lol 'Here, have a candy (aka rice paper LSD) with that drink darling' LOL

I also think you may have misunderstood me. I was commenting on the children in a humorous way from the post hyperactive wrote about children not always being honest.

The other part of my post was meant to say that I think that if there are any "doors" out there we can't normally access, that we shouldn't use drugs to open them. I was also saying that the drugs, make us believe we are seeing things. That is my personal belief. I don't believe that it makes us more aware of something we normally aren't. I'm not sure there are any "doors". I would think that if there are, then we would be equipped to open them without the aid of a drug. But there are a lot of people that believe that they are connecting with some other world or dimension through the use of drugs. I am not condeming them. To each their own. But scientific proof shows, that habitual drug use does cause damage to the body. But that is a personal decision that one has to make. I like hyperactive will be waiting for something or someone to show me that this is not entirely and internal phenomena. I apologize if my post irritated you.

Shamanic Healing: Why it Works
The most startling discovery in the scientific history of mankind proves that shamans know what they're doing.

By William S. Lyon
Adapted with permission from Integrative Health & Healing, Fall 2003.

Western cultures have always dismissed shamanic healing and other native medicine powers as "primitive superstition," mainly because we had no explanation for how shamans do what they do. Shamanic healing was the main form of healing used by the American Indians, who called upon helping spirits to cure the patient. Though there are few native shamans left in North America, 200 years ago upwards of 30% of the population had some form of spirit-enabled medicine power.
How does shamanic healing work? Let’s start with some recent developments in quantum physics, which have finally provided us with answers.

In the late 1920s, scientists—led by Neils Bohr--were convinced, based on observations of their data and mathematics, that our reality was dependent on an "observer effect," an interplay between how our reality manifests and how we observe it. It became known as the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. Meanwhile, Albert Einstein's followers, by far the majority of physicists at the time, disagreed, and spent the next 40 years searching for the "hidden variable" that would explain quantum mechanics and enable them to do away with the Copenhagen interpretation.

Finally, in 1964, physicist John S. Bell came up with a mathematical theorem, known as Bell's inequality (or theorem), which, for the first time, made it possible to physically test which of these two views was the correct one. Henry Stapp, a physicist at the University of California at Berkeley and an authority on the implications of Bell's theorem, believes that all the strange concepts we have learned to adjust to since Einstein--where time goes slower as we goes faster; where the mass of the sun bends space such that earth travels in an ellipse while also going in a straight line through space; the atom bomb; quantum tunneling; and the like--are merely the tip of the iceberg. The heavy-duty, bottom line all along has been, "Is the observer effect real?"

The first experimental test of Bell's theorem was conducted eight years later, in 1972, by Professor John Clauser at UC Berkeley. Clauser conceived his experiment in 1969 while at Columbia University, and completed it in 1972 at Berkeley using calcium atoms. The results were that reality is based on an observer effect. In 1973, Holt and Pipkin repeated the experiment using mercury atoms, which was repeated by Clauser in 1976—and both showed conclusively the observer effect is real.

In 1975 scientists at Columbia repeated a 1974 experiment done in Italy, again confirming the observer effect. In 1976, Lamehi-Rachti and Mittig at the Saclay Nuclear Research Center in Paris carried out another experiment, which again confirmed the observer effect.

The final bit of evidence came in a March 1999 article in Nature by Alain Aspect from the University of Paris-South, in Orsay, France. He announced the conclusions of his team's experiment, which closely aligned with the requirements of Bell's theorem. Again, the results were in favor of the observer effect.

So here we are, faced with the most startling discovery in the scientific history of mankind, and very few people know a thing about it. Recall that when we were faced with the discovery that the earth goes around the sun, it took the general population well over a century to adopt this as fact. We still speak of the sun rising and setting.


Now we are faced with the notion that there is an interplay between our local space-time reality and human consciousness. Worse yet, it means objects are not really solid. Here I will summarize points made by Evan Harris Walker, writing in his book, The Physics of Consciousness: Strained by the conflicts between Einstein and Bohr over the ultimate meaning of quantum mechanics, subjected to further stress in Bell's theorem, and finally ripped through in recent tests, the whole cloth of the materialistic picture of reality must now be rejected. We must now recognize that objective reality is a flawed concept, and that consciousness is a negotiable instrument of reality.

We stand at the threshold of a revolution in thinking that transcends anything that has happened in 1,000 years. Now the observer, consciousness, something self-like or mind-like, becomes a provable part of a richer reality than physics or any science has ever dared to envision.

Why hasn't this incredible discovery reached the front cover of Time magazine? Give it a couple of decades. We have yet to figure out how to handle it.

Nevertheless, this means that shamanism finally has an explanation based in modern physics. Shamans can effect change in local reality through spirit helpers working at the quantum level. This is achieved through their ritual action, in which the shaman's consciousness, in an altered state of being, is intently focused on a singular objective. For example, “Take this cancer out of this sick person.”

What we blandly refer to as "ritual rules," are actually quantum mechanics rules. That is, native ceremonial behavior is exactly what is needed to change reality via the observer effect. For example, shamanic rituals are extremely repetitive over long periods of time. This is because they are trying to effect the probability waves that bring reality into time and space in the first place. Waves are repetitive, and so are the waves of consciousness generated in a shamanic ritual.

Once you understand these new findings of physics, what shamans do in ceremony appears rational. This means that healing ceremonies are basically wish-fulfillment exercises, whereby the "wish" is expressed as prayer. A prayer constitutes an intensely focused, strong human will. It is the observer effect of quantum mechanics at its best. It is the patient who sets this process into motion by first making a request and "sacrifice", usually in the form of a payment, to the healer. The notion of sacrifice accompanying prayer is an ancient tradition in all religions, such as the early animal sacrifices of ancient Judaism. It is this sacrifice that sets the aim of the prayer such that it will hit its target. You give before you receive.

Once the healer conducts the diagnosis, the healing ceremony can begin. If it is a particularly difficult case, the shaman will usually call for ceremonial assistants. The more "observers," the better the chance for success, so friends and relatives of the patient are often invited to participate. For this same reason, a shaman will also ask doubters to leave before a healing ceremony begins. In fact, one often reads ethnographic records in which shamans would not conduct a ceremony if whites were present.

Once the ceremony begins, the "observation" is maintained and repeated in order to secure success. The shaman locates the disease (afflicted part of the body), and then, with the aid of spirit-helpers, removes it, most often by sucking. What the shaman draws from the patient's body matters little. It is the observation that the disease is gone that brings about the needed change in reality that causes the quantum-level probability wave to collapse in favor of the patient.

Quite often the shaman's spirits will give instructions to the patient that are designed to maintain the desired observation, once the ceremony has ended. For example, a Lakota healing might require the patient to make prayer offerings on a daily basis. In this sense, one's prayers often extend beyond the healing per se. I know of one case in which this was not done by the patient, and the symptoms returned.

This relationship between the actions of a shaman and quantum mechanics has been dealt with by Fred Allen Wolf in The Eagle's Quest. Wolf, a physicist, discusses nine parallels between quantum mechanics and shamanic activity. In so doing, he makes it clear that shamans, while in a trance state, operate at the quantum level of reality. Once this is realized, one can begin to understand not only why shamans can do what they say they can do, but also why their means for doing so are similar from culture to culture. They are all following quantum level rules.

No doubt the observer effect plays a central role in many other alternative forms of healing as well--healing at a distance, sympathetic touch, psychic surgery, etc. However, the presence of spirit helpers makes shamanic healing additionally powerful. In this particular form of healing, reality can be radically changed such that "miracles" often occur. These miracles now have a solid scientific basis, but it will be some time before this new realization becomes fact in the minds of the general public.

[link=www.wmslyon.com/ newwindow]William S. Lyon[/link] is a graduate professor in The Center for Religious Studies at the University of Missouri at Kansas City, where he teaches courses on American Indian shamanism. He has worked with native medicine men for over three decades. His latest book is Spirit Talkers: North American Indian Medicine Powers.
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Shamanism,healing,yoga,meditation,alternative medicine etc

Faeden,

here is another article on the effects of LSD.

http://www.bme.jhu.edu/~jsorger/LSD/LSD.html

Thought you might find this paragraph interesting.,

Dr. Timothy Leary began his hallucinogenic career in Cuernavaca, Mexico, where he first discovered mushrooms in 1960. When he returned to his job at Harvard University's Center for Research in Personality, Leary and another faculty member, Dr. Richard Alpert began experimenting on psychology students with psilocybin, the hallucinogenic ingredient found in mushrooms. Leary believed, and still believes that LSD is a consciousness expanding drug. In fact, one of his first experiments was on a group of inmates at the Massachusetts Correction Institute at Concord ([2], p.163). Leary and Alpert wanted to find out if hallucinogenic drugs such as psilocybin and LSD would lead criminals to realizations that would lead to changing their criminal lives. Although their research appeared to prove that criminals exposed to hallucinogens were less prone to end up in jail again, their research was shunned by the scientific community for the methods employed. Leary and Alpert were directly violating the scientific rule of remaining objective while performing an experiment. While they conducted serious scientific research in their laboratories, they also conducted informal psilocybin sessions in their free time.

This DR. is confirming what you are talking about. I took Psychology in college and they covered the effects of drugs on the brain. It said that we have a gateway that filters out alof of what our senses bring in to the brain. By taking LSD the gateway opens allowing more info to pass through your brain. I have also taken LSD before and it made me think if my brain wasnt filtering out as much stuff it would seem that by taking LSD it would allow you to see whats really out there. I didn't hallicinate a whole lot just noticed colors alot more vibrant and sounds seemed really clear. The weird part was when i was watching TV certain people on TV looked just like demons., Not everyone though just certain people. which i though was kinda of strange. The demonic people were only on certain channels mostly the ones that showed bad stuff such as MTV and violent movies... I have also taken Salvia divinorum which is a sage plant from oaxaca mexico. Its like the ahuasco from south america that they use for shaminism. I took only 2 hits of this plant and wow....... i have never felt like i did that time... I only did it 1x becuase i felt it was something i shouldnt be messing with if i wasnt ready. It made me feel like i was merged with my reality. Like if i leaned against a wall i would just melt into it. it was very strange feeling hard to describe it properly. And that was only 2 hits. They classify those on I believe 5 levels. What I experienced was only level 2. I couldn’t imagine what 5 would be. Supposedly if you get to level 5 you go into the same state as shamans go into where they can travel through the astral plane. I wouldnt recommend anyone taking either one of these too unless your mind is up to to it.

So Faeden I definitely think there is something to some of these hallucinogenic drugs that may increase our sense of awareness. For you people that have never taken anything like this before there really isn’t any way to explain it to you that would make you understand what Faeden is asking.
The LSD wasn’t as strong to me as the Salvia stuff. The Salvia was the one that really made me think that what those shamans due with this stuff is something legitimate.

Overall Drugs are bad when people abuse them. NO different then alcohol or cigs. LSD and such drugs should never be used as recreational drugs they are way too powerful for every day use. The shamans that use these sort of stuff have to go through training in order to be prepared for what they will experience when on it. So anyone who takes peyote, Salvia, Aguahuasca without proper preparation is playing a deadly game of roulette.

For you people condeming people who have used these sorts of drugs i am sure you have all taken drugs before. Unless you have never taken any asprin, cough syrup or any of that stuff you have taken drugs. Some are to cure physical ailments. Others are to cure spiritual ailments. And if you have no experience with this sort of thing dont judge other people based on your inexperience. I am not saying people should take these sort of things they are not for everyone. i have seen people flip out becuase their minds are not ready for that sort of experience. THey are not recreational drugs. Take any of this stuff more then a few times and i guarantee you will not be the same..

people do underestimate the child. as we age we shut down "pathways" to creativity and understanding. It is a shame.

When people tell me to "grow up", I thank them for the compliment. It means I have not dulled my thought processes by artificial rules, regulations, and expectations.


@turtle:
why Shamanic Healing works - two very important aspects of shamanic healing that are neglected by western medicine (a byproduct of decending from modern science - see, i admit science isn't perfect ) is it treats the whole body (since the whole body is what is affected), and because of belief ( the people treated by shamans really beleived in the treatment, and we have many studies that show the mental state of the patient can be one of the most important indicators of how well a treatment will be).

i certianly see more sense in wholistic approaches to medicine than the western approach (and doing so may have saved my life. of course I don't know whether my acute incident self-healed, was aided by the wholistic treatments, or the wholistic treatments did all the work. I do know that western medicine never figured out what happened during the 4 months of tests while i simultaniously did wholistic treatments. The best the western doctors could say was "it went away, which is good because if it didn't, it would have killed you" )

Edit double post

Thanks for your post and link sanchera1978, they are fascinating. You did good on answering my question. It definitely opens something up, that normally is closed, well it did me. The door might have shut back up again now, but I can still remember some of the things I was shown when looking through that door, and I will never forget them that is for sure.

As you rightly said, people should not mess with this drug, as it can be like playing Russian roulette. I have seen this drug cause mental illness with just one dose, you just do not know how your mind will react to it, its true when they say LSD can be either the closest your ever get to heaven on earth, or it could be the closest your ever get to hell while on earth.

All the best
Faeden

funny you should mention pharmacuticals....

i don't judge people for what they have taken, but i do think people do set double standards for drugs. My doctor gave me this so it is good...., "the man" told me that is bad....

it is hilarious to look at the inconsistancies between legal and illegal drugs. So much of modern medicine is just pure poison. Ever look at the damage a lot of the modern drugs do to the liver, for example? And consider that the job of any company is to make money for the shareholders, you understand their mostly driven to create drugs to supress symptoms rather than provide a cure. A cure that can often be found in natural sources. Yet people in the modern westen world are so programmed to turn to the synthetic, and to denounce the natural as inferior. People proclaim doctors as good, yet if you look at the statisitcs for incorrect diagnosis resulting in death from post-mortum studies you will be shocked. We have gone backwards in an effort to go forwards in medicine.

For the record, i have not done any illegal drugs, nor do i take asperin, tylenol, cough syrup, or any other legal drugs (this includes caffiene, aspartame, nicotene, et al).

I am not condeming anyone. I have had my own personal hell with drugs. I damn near lost everything I had, loved, and myself included. I think LSD is a horrible drug though. I watched one of my closest friends slice his throat, because he thought he would rather end his own life than let the demons that were trying to kill him do it. I guess what I was trying to say is if there are any "doors" to be opened that a natural way would be the best option. Especially if you don't have a clue as to what you are getting into. The best idea would be to learn all you can before you start delving into that kind of mind enhancement. I feel that those that are novice to reaching those heights mentally should steer clear of experimenting and leave it to Shamans, witchdoctors, and others that have like experience and are truly attempting to enlighten themselves. Not those who believe that it would be cool to try the "new" fad. I feel that with anything spiritual, you shouldn't "dabble". Be informed of what you are doing and trying to accomplish. Just with drug use, there may be side effects that you may not have anticipated, can fix, or can control. And I may be offending again and ruffling more feathers with this, but, before you start assuming that people posting a response to this have no "experience"; you should make sure that you know what is up with the person or people you are directing your comments to.

Morticia ,

I think you misunderstood my post.
And if you have no experience with this sort of thing dont judge other people based on your inexperience

And I may be offending again and ruffling more feathers with this, but, before you start assuming that people posting a response to this have no "experience"; you should make sure that you know what is up with the person or people you are directing your comments to.

I said if you have no experience with this sort of thing dont judge. If you have experience with this then you can judge based on your own experience. I didnt assume you never experienced any of this it would be stupid for me to say so when i dont even know you. i am sorry top hear about your friend .. i did state that i felt these were extremely dangerous if you werent ready to take them. your mind has to be prepared for what they make you see.... They are not recreational drugs.

hyperactive

doesnt it make you laugh when they advertise drugs on tv to cure depression or anything else and the side effects are worse then what you started out with in the first place. Take a anti-depressant but it may cause severe headaches, heartburn, inflammation, diaherea, even death..

it is sad how today's world thinks the solutions are all found in pills.

i see a total lack of personal responsibility. People turn to miracle cures for everything rather than understanding that prevention is the key. "patch me up and send me on my way". People have become drones to the machine. "do as you are told" is just too ingrained.

the world is

pfft anone who thinks LSD is a gateway to the soul is a huge druggie hippy obviously LSD is a drug it hurts you end of story

HAY! Easy with the use of the word "Hippie" babes.. or you and me are gunna have words...