No, they didn't say the same thing at all. The early church leaders, through a process of often injudicious editing, created the image they wanted their Savior to have. For example, he is often portrayed a militant zealot in the "Lost Books". In the book of Thomas there is a story of how a young boy accidently bumped into Jesus, and he struck him dead on the spot. The gospel of Mary often speaks of Mary Magdalene as a disciple and powerful church leader, even so far as to hint at her being his closest disciple. Even more than John, the "beloved".

and where did u find these so called "lost scriptures" and how do i know its not just a non believer making crap up?

Please don't be so aggressive, I have studied religious texts for several years. It's always been a passion of mine. I'm not trying to argue one thing or another, just present some historical findings.

And I didn't find them, the information on all of this is very easy to find through some research. I'll post some links that would be helpful for you when I come back and edit.

sorry didnt mean to be aggressive.. im also studying religion.. and beliefs, so i have a pretty good idea of what u mean.. well, when u find it, just pm it to me so i can look

Lets not get to emotional OK my friend.


Jenn have you ever read the book:
Rabbi Jesus
an Intimate Biography
by Bruce Chilton
It goes with what you are saying (With Bible references).

I have serious doubts about the "completeness" of the bible. Having read the books excluded from the final cut(the apocrypha), I think that there was a very different aspect that was left out of the new testament, that very much change the messages of the bible.

That added to the multiple translations over the millennia that are equally questionable, I just think what we have now may not be what was originally intended. It could be, but my instinct tells me that the control factor that the early church wanted on the masses leads me to believe that some creative editing took place along the way. Regardless, I have no trust in any of the Christian churches today; I think that they are corrupt and have been since the begining.

As for hell, who knows...I find it doubtful, and it just doesn't add up. for a god that has "Love Agape" it doesn't make any sense at all that he would allow his most loved creatures to spend an eternity writhing and gnashing their teeth for finite mistakes. I don't buy it; it isn't logical and seems like a power play on the churches part. That is my opinion; ymmv.

people dont go to hell by sinning, we go to hell for not asking repennance and for not trusting our life in the lord jesus christ... do u know where to find the other books? i would like 2 read them

right there in front of you my friend.

ok.. im gonna read them... hold on.

heeh that's a good way of putting it

Not to get on your bad side again faeden , but wasn't your post stating what you beleive. I mean I go by what the bible tells me. I mean I know you think that if we go to hell it's dark and cold. And yes, I don't like ideal of going to hell to burn, if I'am not saved but i'am not gonna ignore the fact that i might if i'am not saved. You gotta open yourself up to all possibilities. I'am sorry but if I was held over fire then I'd kiss any butt to save me from falling in it. Wouldn't you? But I love God not cuz of that reason. I love God cuz yes my life may not be grand, but he's done so much for me. I know, I've been healed. That is one of his many wonders for me. I beleive he's a loving God but you are given that choice. I mean if you knew hell with fire and brimstone and teeth knashing was true, would you still think God of being cruel and being mean. Would you not wanna make that choce before you die of where you wanna go? I would hope so.

Hi starlitkate



I have Kate, that is why I can say its a load of trash, I would not comment on something if I had not studied it first and debated it with my self.



No I would not, because that is called bullying. If god is a bully, he can get lost, and ill happily jump into hell my self.



But that is just it Kate, I know hell is not fire and brimstone, that is the nature of belief, if you have not recognised that all ready. If god is cruel, and will send people to hell for getting his name wrong, then no I will not repent, because I have principles, and I wont give in to a bully, no matter how powerful he/she is.

I do not mean this in a mean way Kate, but would you say you are brainwashed ?

All the best
Faeden

You don't know that it's not fire. You can't prove something if you aint been there!! right? And do you always resort to calling someone brainwashed for they're beleifs. I never called you names. Why the need for it now. I just thought I'd get into a nice convo about it with you but everyone that don't go along with your beleifs are religion extremist cuz of they're beleifs, even though you like to talk out on the matter alot about God and Hell or you think they are brainwashed. Don't resort to violence, name calling, and stupidness...Can't we all just state our beleifs and Faeden you made a post speaking against God and some of ours beleifs, so when I want to have a convo and question yours, you call me brainwashed!! No I wouldn't call that brainwashed no more than you bashing some christians beleifs on hell and speaking out of way about God. I stated my beleifs just like you did, but tried to be nice without resorting to name calling like I haven't all ready heard it so many times.
Nice convo faeden, I thought we was gonna get along great in this one!!


Edited to fix quotes

Eh, what type of question is that? "Would you say you are brainwashed?". That is an insulting and awkward question no matter which you look at it, of course shes not going to think that... it's just her religion and belief system. I think Kate seems like a very nice girl, who happens to have strong religious beliefs. If she is brainwashed (which I don't think she is) then it certainly isn't in a bad way.

You have your own belief system faeden, and sometimes I think you're brainwashed from the amount of samey and often contradictory posts you make. I find you very hypocritical, always preaching in your own little way, and often calling names and judging people through implication, yet you act so unbelievably innocent when someone accuses you of doing so.

You have your opinions and when someone states they feel differently you patronise them with things like "do you feel you are brainwashed?" Wtf? Bizzarre mate, very bizzarre... and more than a little condescending.


Edited to remove excessive quotes

thanks dear!!

Faeden,
What makes you not so brainwashed? I meen I came to Christianity on my own after studying it and Ibelive in the hell mentioned in the Bible, so how does that make me brainwashed if I accepted something on my own??? What makes you not brainwashed???

Hi starlitkate

I asked you a question, I never called you anything.

Richdog will you marry me lol

I have noticed that you do not like me before on other posts, and I became concerned, so then looked at all your other posts on other threads, and saw you where like it with everyone, and then became unconcerned

All the best
Faeden

Faeden, I am only like that with the people that I feel are talking utter rubbish. And i'm afraid I feel you post it in large quantity.

And if you are not smart enough to realise that asking that question could cause offence and implies other things then I am in turn concerned for you...

Does anyone else have trouble figuring out how asking somneone if they are brainwashed could offend them?

P4P3R T1G3R2 Hi

Because the idea of burning in hell brings fear, and fear is the ultimate tool in brainwashing.

Come on guys you can do better than that, sock it to me *sticks out my chin* I cant take it.

I’m not going to comment on this tread anymore, because not one person even attempted to answer any of my questions I had in my original thread, which proved my point perfectly

All the best
Faeden

Oh but you mentioning Hitler being in heaven, murders, etc... is not so "brainwashing." Heck do w/e you want and still get rewarded, no punishment, where do I join?

OK Faeden
How about we look at it this way!

If He brought you into existence He certainly has every right to take you out of it!

All The Best
Irish

Come again ?? Lying doesn’t get you anywhere believe me, please show me where I said Hitler was in heaven....What a odd thing to claim. If your going to make claims about me like that, please make sure you back your sources up first, other wise your end up looking silly.

All the best
Faeden

Only if I believe in that idea of god, but I dont do I Some people have trouble understanding that some people dont believe in the bible.

All the best
Faeden

Check the who do you want to see in heaven. Calling people braiwashed doesn't get you anywhere.

I agree with Faeden, but in my oppinion , the fires of hell is a metaphor. I beleive in a differnt type of hell. One that burns and scars, but without fire.

No I am not letting you of that easy you calmed it, quote it to me.

I think your find I said I have no idea where Hitler is, because I am not god.

all the best
Faeden

If you read Faedens posts on the forum he has an obsession with Christian extremism and brainwashing, and makes repeated references to it







A mere few of a selection of your posts after searching for the keyword "extremist", many all re-hashing the same sort of things. Faeden you clearly have a severe problem with religion, and this seems to be the root of your problems here on UM. The religious people in this thread have not said anything out of turn to you yet you ask them if they are brainwashed and call them extremists in other parts of the forum, you patronise, condescend them and attack them. For someone that bores the hell out of everyone with speeches of love and tolerance this seems a tad hypocritical, and a bit petty.

Verdict: you talk the talk... but most definately don't walk the walk.

Religion good, religion = love…. extremism bad, extremism = war suffering, and suppression.

I cant keep repeating my self, I have a problem with religious extremism yes, but not religion, and I am entitled to speak out against extremism. I do not see extremists as religious.

This will be my final post on this thread, as again no one has answered any of my questions from my original post.

All the best
Faeden

See beliveing in the Lake of Fire is not extremists Faeden, but a Biblical doctrine.
All the best,
PT

biblical doctorine? but created by who, and for what purpose? it is all a tool to control the masses.....


all this talk of brainwashing....


when you refered to doctorine, it raises the question then "is one that obeys doctorine indoctorinated?" (one must always question everything and accept nothing on faith, but accept only on evidence and logic)

Faeden if you do not believe in God in the first place. Then I must ask you why would you even start a thread with that statement if not to enflame those that do believe in God.
I would say that is a cruel thing to do. Even if you attempt to do it in a friendly but extremely condescending way. I am afraid I have to agree with star-light on her observations. I am disappointed in what you have said in this area. I hope you will be more tolerant to others beliefs in the future.
All The Best
Irish

Ok faeden. Let's be real and not beat around the bush like you are doing here! If I asked if you think you are a idiot? then you'd be all over me inside and out saying I called you a idiot? so no faeden don't come off looking all cuz you aren't. You called me brainwashed when asked if I thought I was one like you have called me before.

Hi Irish



Please show me where i said i do not believe in god ?

I am an idiot yes.

Sorry I know i said i would not post again

This is the last time, because its just got silly now.

All the best
Faeden

Yes I would have to agree with you Irish. Not to be mean Faeden but you said once you love Christians, yet you don't respect all the christian beleifs. You don't have to accept them, agree with them, but instead respect. Yes you call christians extreme religionist, and come off saying you don't agree with God's ways and put up a post like this. It's like adding fuel to the fire. Don't we all have enough descussions and posts to bicker about without putting a post up speaking out against some of us members religion? I find that hypocritical dear... Do you seriously want me to put up a post about your religion and beleifs on Peageans. If I did I think alot of the monitors and members would be giving me a harder time then what they are giving you. Is that not so? I know you aren't numb Faeden? Let's be real here and respect each other. If not then don't put up posts that is adding fuel to fire. I mean after all how many times do posts that get put up end with the conversation being about the posts?

Edited to remove excessive quotes

Can you prove it is a tool to control masses? I didn't think you could, you can have an opinion yes, then say, "In my opinion it's a tool to control masses."Yes I do have logic, it's only logical to conclude that a supreme being created the universe.

I'm pretty sure this thread has has it's day but I'll leave it open for the moment.

Can I just remind everyone again.......only quote what is relevant to your reply !!!! it really is getting to the point of silliness now where people are quoting a total of 5 posts just to comment on one sentence. It is annoying to other members to have to trawl through endless quotes.

*has a horrible feeling this will be ignored again*

since this thread began with faeden talking of extremists it important to note that it is hard to respect a belief if you see it causing harm (which is my interpretation of faeden's post)

@paper:

notice my control post was worded as a question?

but on the topic of control: look how the church created, altered, and applied the concept of eternal damnation over the centuries. The whole concept of it was to keep people from leaving the church. That is control. Look at the more extreme groups today (to stay close to faeden's topics). The more controlling the group, the more the use of threat of damnation. It is the ultimate control device because once a person is convinced in a judgement day, how better than to gain servitude than through the threat of "obey my words, or else....".

as sad as it is that the thread went into personal brainwashing discussion, the truth is that religion has over the course of history done just that. People were "brainwashed" or indoctorinated into the church's beliefs, largely through the threat of suffering (both eternally, and through torture, social branding, ostrasizing, and death)

edit: on logic - there is no logic in concluding anything without evidence. what you are using is faith, not logic or reasoning.

hyperactive,
The fact is you still can't prove that it was created for control. The Hebrews belive in Hell and they never used it to control anyone.

See now like I haven't read much of Hypers posts. or at least I aint had a problem with Hyperactive. But with Faeden then he has obvisouly had a bad experience with some other Christians therefor think that just cuz we state we beleive in a feiry hell then we are using it to control and forcing it on others because of our beleifs. Well those that disagree with everyone else's beleifs and look all around them and take a big glance. You are in a RELIGION forum. Only right to respect others beleifs without being or feeling rediculed for it..

really?

I'm with Hyperactive on this one.

I consider myself more of an agnostic right now. Not for or against Christianity. One thing I do have beef with is organzied religion. I've read about the Church's history, I've read some of the many, many books that did not get into the Bible, I've studied Jesus as a figure in history (not a figure in faith). The Bible says history is one way, historical research shows history was another way. I am reading the Bible right now and will come up with conclusions of my own. I think spirituality is more personal and doesn't need a priest or any other median to be "legitimate."

As far as Hell goes, I think that is personal too. I think everyone's Hell is custom made to ensure suffering. Because, after all, what if someone likes really hot places?

I never said that. I have had an NDE, and it definantly wasn't of hell. It was a GOOD NDE, I just wasn't ready to go. I've seen Heaven, I've seen hell, AFTER this. Wierd things happen after an NDE.

Here let me elaborate for you. It was August 1st 2003. (I know, because I wrote it down after the dream). I'd fallen asleep, I saw hell crack open, an open space of land, on a place with no atmosphere, dry and barren like a desert without sand bheneath which, from the land cracking open like Earthquakes, was fire. I saw the gates being opened with keys, you could see from here up to the Heavens (the stars), in which Heaven was falling to pieces like that of a jigsaw puzzle. There were angels above singing as it cracked open, their choirs not in English, in a language I can't even understand, piercing through your soul like a knife, and what came out of it, charred people, half charred angels. One looked back, his HUGE eyes completely black 'souless', staring right through me, no mercy, no compassion, just the blackness of punishment. I couldn't wake up. I couldn't scream, talk, move, nothing. (Yes, I know, it's called 'sleep paralysis'). The only word I can desfcribe for it is horrific. I prayed, Hail Mary's, etc. Couldn't get out. One Our Father, and by the end of the prayer I woke up. I could still hear the choirs from the dream echooing, piercing through me. I was shaken, this isn't just like a nightmare, this is like an OBE, when you're actually THERE. Shaken I go to put the kettle on to calm down. The red light goes on, (it's electricity powered), it boils away. Something makes me look back. It wasn't even plugged in. It was boiling without electricity. Just to make sure I knew this was no ordinary dream.

Dream? Nightmare more like that, description gives me the shivers.

Anyway people have overlooked a positive effect of the fear of hell over the ages... moral conduct. It cut down on murder (not nowadays, but...), adultery etc and that can't have been a bad thing.

I see people posting that everyone should be loved and to hold no anger in your heart against those that do you wrong but I just don't believe that this is a relaistic, or even natural way of living. Though im not a big God believer, if he made man in more or else his own image, maybe he shares some of the emotions too. Maybe he does feel anger and a desire to punish, maybe hell WAS created to weed out the rotton apples and make sure that you couldn't just go through life doing what the hell (no pun intended) you wanted to and think that it went unseen and unpunished. An infinitely long afterlife of bliss? Maybe you have to earn that right and show that you deserve it.

The point is... who knows? While there is no proof of God to some, others see him everywhere. Some believe Hell isn't a fiery furnace... others do. The point is that it is all a matter of viewpoint, and without having a letter personally signed from God himself or someone who has seen it all there is no way we can ever with 100% surety say that someone elses beliefs are wrong. So when Faeden says he KNOWS x and x facts it is merely his own belief system talking, and form what i've seen he is as guilty as anyone of judging others.

I for one will be in for a sharp shock if hell IS a fiery furnace as i'm pretty much guaranteed to go there. Maybe i'll get an asbestos coffin...

The fact is whether you agree with it or now, religion is a BIG thing. Millions of people worldwide devote their lives to it, are they all brainwashed? I don't think so, I think some genuinely believe in it and have made that conscious choice. People are people, there is evil in all facets of society, why should religion be any different? Man has interpreted The Bible in his own way, and it is more than possible that down the line it has been twisted to meet his own ends, as have all things man has touched. Would the wars that have happened in the name of religion not happened otherwise? Yeah of course they would, it was the nature of the times, it's just that religion gave them a unifying cause to believe in and fight for. That doesn't make religion evil and wrong... it makes THEIR interpretation of it wrong. The same with extremists. Some murders kill for no reason whatsoever... while some do it in the name of God. Does that mean that these people will not go to Hell despite thinking they are doing Gods work? Does that mean God has condoned it or any behaviour of the sort? Nope, it means that they have used Gods name to commit these atrocities. Their choice, not his, I doubt God decided who does what with his beliefs, he has just laid them down for people to follow as they will.

Maybe religion is something that started out as pure and man in his own ininitable corruptible nature has twisted it and given it a bad name. Just don't forget that for every rotten apple in religion there is someone who devotes their life to good and helping others, people who use it to make their lives better. that should not be forgotten.

End of essay,

Rich.

Most of us can agree with the above statement right? There are some seriously brainwashed people on the planet; some of these people are religious extremist. Some of them hate you, while others would kill you; and in their minds, they go to heaven for acting out their faith.

Sounds F’n crazy no!? – but it’s true.

Now, is a person of written faith condemned to commit these extreme acts, where a person of a non-written faith is not? No! It is not possible, there is no place on the planet that has not had Christianity in its presents; thus, it is not possible to show whether or not religion is the main cause for the world’s problems. There is no way to prove one way or the other because major religion has encompassed the world.

Christianity is so ramped in my society that I am influenced by it whether or not I believe in it. Marriage, gays are bad, go to war because that person has values and my favorite – God Bless America.

The point ^ is, religion is something to talk about because it is in our lives whether or not we want it to be. We may be religious, but other religions may conflict with our own. Our own religion may conflict, persecute, proselytize, kill – set off a Nuke!

“If your not a Christian, why do you care” – I care because Christianity is in all the world. I care because the “good book” puts me, my wife, my mother, my father, my friends, my friend’s family’s; just about everyone on the planet in hell. I care because I care about the world – I like life, and I think we, and the future should be a possibility. So please, no more comments about why a none Christian should care.



I sure as hell hope not!



If it is, then I have some serious metal problems and I most certainly will be in hell because of it.


This seems to be the image far too many people believe their “father in heaven” to be. Jealousy, an act condemned by god, but an act he is free to commit. “'You shall have no other gods before Me “– does this mean other gods can walk at the same level of god? And does this statement tell us that other gods do exists?




Who created everything? Who created hell? Who gave man the choice to choose? Who keeps hell full of human logs to burn red hot? Who punished all of humanity for the sins of one person? Who created disease for every part of the human body? Who suffers from disease the most? – “the poor”. Does god have a problem with the poor? Who gave us a sex drive and then condemned us from acting on it.

The goat has no punishment at all form its urges? None at all, not one – all the gay goats in the would could be doing “it” for a thousand years and god would say – “it is the law I have created, its ok”. Man however has been given the same urges but with a set of rules to follow; if broken, hell will be his fate – this is the creation of an insane tyrant.



Ok then, lets burn all the Christian bibles, documents and people who know the word, as to purge man from the knowledge that makes him be judged by god. Hmm…. Sort of resembles someone I have learned of.




Are you giving god that ability? Do you know if he has the ability to do this? Maybe god made a law that he could not break (he’s god right) and the law said he could not take anyone out of existence just because he brought them into it.



LOL!




That is pure evil – or is this the love you speak of? Like in the flood and all those drowning babies that had no choice but to be judged guilty when god first said they were innocent. He killed babies for crying out loud!

Ok – it has been a while sense I have spit out a verse of mine, but you seem one rip for the reiteration of one of my greatest thoughts. Here it goes: Man is going to double the planets population in 50 years. http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop (my estimate - 12 Billion) If all the religions today stay at the same ratio of believers then http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
In fifty years, there will be approximately four Billion Christians living on the planet. Leaving eight billion that will go directly to hell; giving Satan the biggest, “orgy of death” he has ever been blessed by the hands of god to commit. Let us be nice and say 3 Billion Christians make to heaven. This would leave a total 9 Billion in the pits of hell.

Ah! The Love

Why do we go on? In light of these figures, we would be more god(!?) like if we ended it all right now, killing six billion people, four billon of which would face hell regardless. Now, in light of Earths future population out look, we would be saving five Billion souls from ever needing to face god’s judgment. I smell a motive – take cover!

Insane yes – do people believe in what makes this logic so – fraid that’s an affirmative




So what if god tells you to kill, or go to hell?




I really don’t think this question is any different than all other questions. Funny though, if you were brainwashed, would you really be able to speak on it.

I do think however, the moment the world puts a choker on questions; we are all in for it. Maybe the end is closer than I think!

“God created you just to send you to hell?”
Sure seems like it to me. That’s why I believe that if anything is real about that “good book” it is the “real” god does not want you to believe in that book, that’s the trick. The real god wants you to see outside the box and into your own heart, mind and soul for the truth. To believe in punishment, as pure love is sick – to say this god is all loving is false, and to believe he loves and adores you as its pet, shows a man who lives in fear, and fear is the work of the …

Nightmare it was Richdog, and you do have a point.


What I don't understand though, in both of the last posts, is why you or anyone assumes you'll end up in hell? There's a balance to it, and no one on Earth can tell you if you're going to hell (or Heaven, Sheol, whatever). It's God's judgement not man's. If you do something bad, and make up for it with something good, the good gets counted. Etc

That and, people who do actually end up in hell (like psychotic murderers, rapists, etc - I can't even say they all go there, no one knows the judegment of God, but that would be th type that ends up there) end up there 1. for a reason. They did something, obviously against the law of God 2. for the duration of the time of their sentence. Duration of time. It goes from the levels of hell, up to Sheol, then you either come back, end up in the 3rd Heaven etc.

If you can send someone to jail for life/death sentence, then why is it so hard to believe that God's justice system involves a hell? The original wording (or one of) of hell was 'prisonhouse'. Do people get out of prison? Eventually, depends what they did, how bad it was, etc.

To anser your question 4dplane. God created hell. That is written (and no, not in the NT), it was created before Adam was. And so too were the punishing angels of hell, and the hells of the angels themselves. They go to their respective hells also if they step out of line. Why would man be any different?

If there was no justice system, and a murderer was next to his victim, how would that be fair? Half the time it's man that cries out for justice and th punishments of man for their crimes. Should God sit back and ignore the victims?

Ya but Fluffy, do you really think that God would play with all of us on earth now like a big joke? Do you really think after it said in bible that it condems who changes the scriptures or text, then do you really think he would had not let the bible be done to his own perfection. That he would had let generations,eons, billions of people from Jesus's time till now live on False Hope and a Falso Bible?? No I don't think so! If so then that would make God playing with us as a joke and it would make him cruel. But he's not!! The bible speaks the truth or at least I think so dear! God wouldn't let us go on basing our beleif on what is written in a Holy Book Bible and it not be the truth. For that would make God a bigger deceiver than the devil. And God isn't the devil. So no, I doubt the bible was changed at all. Maybe a little word. But nothing big!!
Cuz when the Holy Texts were written then King James of France I think, asked for the textures to be brought to him. He at the time did not beleive in a higher power. He heard of these great things that come from the texture. He even heard of Jesus and the spirit of it overtook him so much that he had the book translated for all the Europen Countries and later on it was translated into other nations as the other nations grew and as therefor as the gospel spread. That is enough living proof right there that the textures were real!!! That is why it is called the King James Version!!

[quote=Ashley-Star*Child,Apr 18 2005, 10:03 PM]
[quote]Ashley I have never heard of anyone have a NDE and say they saw fire and brimstone only darkness, but most are positive ones. Didn’t you say a while back you had a NDE, and that it was not of the nicest in nature ?
[/quote]

Actually, my mom knew a older lady. Not too old but she lived a bad life. Wasn't a good person I guess, but she was dying in the hospitle and this happened when I was a early teen, so I know my mom is telling truth. Anyways, this woman was dying and layed in a hospital bed all night while being held down cuz she said her body was on fire. And was screaming she was descending in hell. Cuz they say before you die that God shows you where you are going and flashes your life back to ya before you die. And that some people are just given a greater lapse where they are going I guess depending on how bad they're life was. Anyways doctors tested her and said she wasn't crazy, had nothing wrong with her. She was just screaming in agony that she was buring.
Yes grant ya I get chills everytime of thinking that if I go to hell i'am be buring in fire for eternity and teeth knashing. Anyone watched Constantine yet??The new movie?? Well the part where he can transcend himself to hell well that is a good example of it. Not the top place he always lands wtih all the cars and stuff. But like when that woman is pulled down into the hole with the demons and people are knashing each other and i'ts feiry brimstone hot. That is a good example. But I don't think any movie could ever really depict how tortorous or awful hell is, or how peacful and beautiful heaven is with no sadness, or what the end of the world is gonna look like.To my opinion it will be nothing like we ever imagined!!!

Hi Irish


QUOTE
Faeden if you do not believe in God in the first place. Then I must ask you why would you even start a thread with that statement if not to enflame those that do believe in God.


Please show me where i said i do not believe in god ?

I am an idiot yes.

Sorry I know i said i would not post again

This is the last time, because its just got silly now.

All the best
Faeden---------------quoted right below. not in so many words but you did say that if only you did beleive in him but you don't. It wasn't said in so many words, but I think that shows you said it dear. Cuz you have said before that you beleive in a higher power but it's hard to beleive in the God from the christian bible cuz you called him cruel and a unloving God and then you make this post bashing him..You need to get your story straight dear!! You say one and say another. You state and beleif and stick with it and not beat around the bush to cover yourself everytime you bash someone or they disagree with you.

All the Best,
Star

Ashley I have some questions im curious about regarding your version of the afterlife...

What are the different levels of heaven, and where do you eventually end up at your highest?

What are the transitional stages your soul goes through each time you rise higher? Do you gain any powers, insight, intelligence, abilities etc?

Can humans become angels at some point after they die or is that impossible, do their souls always stay human?

And some people have trouble understanding that some believe the bible is the word of God...

But I think you and me Faeden have eachother figured out pretty good..


LBD