I have had religious discussions with many of my friends.

One of Dictionary.coms definitions for faith is: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

I often try to understand how they can believe in something that cannot be proven. Some try to say read the (fill in religious text here). Well, that is like in mathematics-using a theory to prove itself. That is, the (fill in religious text) says....

So does that mean if I write a religious text and I say I did miracles and such in it, people would believe I was a god?(head swells up big time)

Most discussions with (reasonable ) people-often religious discussions fall into argruments- say it comes down to "Faith"-believing in something you can not prove.

Ok, believing in God comes down to faith, what made/makes you believe?
My parents brought me up to believe (fill in religion here).

OK, for thoses of you who have a faith in one religion or another-answer back why you believe. I am not making fun of you at all, I really just don't understand how it works. Please-no flaming.

Topics about religion and faith are better suited to the Spirituality forum rather than Metaphysics and astrology. Moved.

Probably... People can be stupid sometimes... lol

People often get angry when they are not confident in their beliefs...

Like I said before, I see evidence of God everywhere... Not to mention how God has affected my life and me...

You have to surrender yourself...

LBD

You say you see evidence of God everywhere-what and how do you know it was God that did/made it? Seriously!

You have to surrender yourself-why/how. How do you know you surrendered yourself to the "right" religion?

I don't see evidence of god anywhere.. quiet the opposite in fact.
Although i think you ment to quote LBD.

i find faith to be like fool's gold (of the prospector days)

it may not be worth anything to anybody else, but to the holder it makes all the effort worthwhile. (death of course is when the holder would find out the fool's gold is worth nothing)

I don't expect you to understand me...

I see through different eyes then you my friend, that is how I see God everywhere... Yes Seriously...

I didn't surrender myself to any religion, I surrendered myself to my God and my King...

LBD

the king of all kings... lord on high... i surrender myself to Him alone also...

Faith to me is a pre-cognition. Sometimes is triggered by a combination of events and you can 'smell' something not reacheable by logic. I think scientists and mathematicians use faith (at least some). They have a vision of what something (eg. a factor in equation or parameters of phenomenon) is about/like and go about to explain it by experimentation. To me my religious faith is to know God, and the distance of pre-cognition is far greater than some logical deductions. I think it is more a given one at a point of time but at the same time encouraged by a series of events that happened to me which bring me to that stage of awareness.

I belive because i know, God is there and as long as i know it i have the peace of heart.

i think that is why most people belive in one faith or another, the fact of haveing peace at heart,and to know that there is something more powerfull then humans out there.

it also give people their answer of if there is something after death.

i also will surrender myself to him.

Ah, my friend, but I do understand you and to some extent agree with you. We just disagree on the identity of the Creator and on the necessity of “faith”. I see faith as a detriment to the understanding of the Creator and his works, but you see it necessary because only through faith can a religion, that is based on past falsehoods and atrocities, be followed. As Beowulf, Mako and I have said over and over again, faith does not have any place in a true religion, only in those so patently false that the hierarchy has to tell the sheeple, “have faith, my children, and you will have salvation!”



Yes, I too have those eyes and I too see the Creator in all of creation, not just in mankind or our religions, philosophies, or beliefs.



I do not surrender myself to any dogma, only to the love shown by the Creator. I accept him, as my Creator but not as my king. That term smacks too much of the cruel Hebrew YHWH and shows no love of his adherents, only ownership!



They use knowledge accumulated by others to forge forward on our understanding of the universe. Faith, being “Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence”, has no place in scientific reasoning. Use of faith in scientific endeavors would be the same as a Christian using Greek mythology to prove the divinity of Jesus! - CD

"Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders, you will never believe." (John 4:48)

As it should be, much to the disgust of the Christian Heirarchy! - CD

It is by faith I believe in love, with out supporting evidence.

It is by faith I believe in the living soul of man with no supporting evidence.

It is by faith I believe there is other life in our universe with no supporting evidence.

It is by faith I don,t believe that we are some cosmic accident.


It is by faith that a loving creator will show me the way home

Irish

You do not need faith to believe in love, it is very evident if you observe a mother and child or man and maid! Love needs no faith to exist!


You need no faith to believe in a soul, incidents of apparent reincarnation and NDEs are very good circumstantial evidence of continuing "life after life". The Soul needs no faith to exist!


Mathematically the incidence of life is all but assured. Our Universe (and the Creator's Creation) is so immensely large that mathematically there has to be other life. Other life has math as support and needs no faith.


This one would take faith, there is no true evidence to support a Creator, but take heart amigo, there is no true evidence to support a self-starting universe either. Be we accident? My opinion is not, but I do believe that the Creator used all the natural laws and evolution to bring to fruit this Universe!


That assumes there is a home, that we do not (as Buddhists believe) become part of the "Cosmic All" after countless lives. This too takes faith, but there is evidence there that we are reborn, so does that count? - CD

[quote=Consummate Deist,Apr 20 2005, 03:16 PM]
[quote]It is by faith I believe in love, with out supporting evidence.[/quote]
You do not need faith to believe in love, it is very evident if you observe a mother and child or man and maid! Love needs no faith to exist!

[quote]It is by faith I believe in the living soul of man with no supporting evidence.[/quote]
You need no faith to believe in a soul, incidents of apparent reincarnation and NDEs are very good circumstantial evidence of continuing "life after life". The Soul needs no faith to exist! [quote]

I think what he was reffering to is that actual "love" cannot be proven. Its an emotion.

He was saying through faith he needs no proof that love exists. He knows it does.

It's a waste of time..... you should spend your life havin fun........ then burn in hell.

i really dont like modern definitions of faith. very unrepresentative of what it ment in the 1st century.

that sort of goes with the territory of discovery. akin to "pandora's box". When we are innocent, unaware, we dream and create fanciful alternate realities. As we learn more and more of this reality, we stop dreaming (we age?). It is a loss of innocence. The more we know, the less faith we need. The more certian we become, the less mystical the world is.

It is important to still dream, but not to confuse it with reality. Faith is in many ways a blinding force to reality. It gives one hope that reality is not real, and that the fantasies of the mind are the truth. So why are some faiths sane and some insane? invisible men in the sky is sane while invisible men in your room are insane? faith in "gods" is sane while faith in werewolves is insane? .....

So that's all I am...circumstantial evidence????

The few, the proud...the NDErs

Amen Blue...


I still question this... But I really hope you do...

Good to hear..


*Sigh*
I new you didn't really understand...

LOL
I know for a fact that scientists use faith...
When they tested the first atomic bomb, some thought the entire atmosphere would ignite, and they still proceeded with the test... Now I would say that took a little faith...

I don't understand why people will not allow their heart to see things as well...

Amen Irish

There have been times my love has sustained my faith.

True, but there is still a mathematical "chance" that there could be no other life...




LBD

Nope, not faith – they just took a calculated risk, based on mathematics, atomic theory, and good old common horse sense!


Aye, there is, but it is ever so much smaller than the chance of other life, that it might as well not even be considered! - CD

They must of had some faith in their knowledge of things...

All must be considered at the very least...


LBD

No, not faith, but belief…the difference is:
Faith: Firm belief in something for which there is no proof
Belief: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence.




Then you too must consider the strong possibility of your God being only a myth and some other Deity actually being the Creator, or there being no Creator at all! - CD

They had no proof that the bomb would or would not detonate the atmosphere... I still think it took a little faith...

Trust me I have... I am no hypocrite...

LBD

CD....LBD....Who has proof of their views?

Okay, here is your evidence that you wanted Zandore:
“Teller also raised the speculative possibility that an atomic bomb might "ignite" the atmosphere, due to a hypothetical fusion reaction of nitrogen nuclei. Bethe showed, according to Serber, theoretically that it couldn't happen; in his book The Road from Los Alamos, Bethe says a refutation was written by Konopinski, C. Marvin, and Teller as report LA-602 showing that it was impossible, not just unlikely. In Serber's account, Oppenheimer unfortunately mentioned it to Arthur Compton, who "didn't have enough sense to shut up about it. It somehow got into a document that went to Washington" which lead to the question "never [being] laid to rest". – wikipedia, Manhattan Project.”
As I said they had belief (actually they had proof) and had no need for faith!
As you can see ignition of the atmosphere is just another urban myth! - CD

Urban myth it is (Was)!
LBD there was no faith Just the facts on this.